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Well I think it would be a good idea for you to focus on her not being around too much anymore instead of the rushing into her relationship part. You should be honest about your feelings and your relationship with her, and then once you become closer again, if you still feel that way about her FI then I might bring it up. I think its great that you have such a close relationship with your FSIL.
@Koala Bear: Yeah, I forgot to add that I didn't think I should kill her happiness since she just got engaged. So I'll wait to bring that part up. I think I might ask her, though, about the kids thing casually at dinner tomorrow.
Thanks for your input :)
Please, don't use the word abandoned if/when you talk to her. Just point out that you see her less often lately and say you miss seeing her! That should go over much better. Maybe suggest a standing weekly "date" one night a week (or every other week, or once a month...), ie. every single Tuesday the two of you have dinner together, or every single Sunday morning you get brunch, etc. If she seems uninterested, ask yourself why that might be. Just remember that how often you see someone is not necessarily an accurate reflection of how close or not close you are to them. My best friend and I see each other twice a month at best... but when we do see each other we make it count!
It would probably be best if you didn't say anything about her fiance. You don't know anything about him that she doesn't already know, right? Assuming you don't, she's already made the choice to marry this man knowing everything she knows. It's her choice to make. As her friend, it's your job to support her. Nothing you say is going to make her see her fiance differently. If anything, it will just make her see YOU as unsupportive, etc. IMHO, the only appropriate reason to interfere at all is if those "dark" things she told you might indicate the potential for emotional or physical abuse.
@constellation: I wasn't planning on saying that. I was saying on here, to the bees, that I feel abandoned.
Also it's not just that I don't see her as often. As I stated in my post, we are communicating much less as well.
And yes, the some of the dark things are abuse. I don't feel comfortable discussing it here, but yeah.
I want to be happy for her. I do want to support her.
I feel like, at some point, I should talk to her about how she is dealing with not having kids and stuff because we should be able to talk about it.
The fact that she doesn't go out with him + the abuse factor is a big red flag for me. A lot of abusers are extremely controlling, often not letting the abusee have social engagements with out them. Is it possible this is the case for your friend?
If she is being abused, please mentally prepare yourself for this talk to not go very well. Abuse is so messed up and horrible; from the outside it's so plain to see, but when you're in the thick of it, it's very, very, very hard to 1) see clearly, and 2) break away from the situation.
It's very easy for an abusee to associate the control with love, also very easy to associate their own dependence as love. It's very hard to separate these things mentally. Your friend could easily get very defensive, angry and hurtful if she feels like she, her FI or her relationship are threatened by you (yeah, I know how illogical that sounds - but if she's in a place of being emotionally abused by this guy, she is probably not thinking logically).
It's also really hard to walk away from an abusive relationship. There is fear of retaliation, there is a lot of control involved on the part of the abuser (which the abusee labels as something much more appealing, or totally falls for). A lot of abusers will attack the self esteem of the abusee, so she might not realize that she deserves and is capable of having someone better. If the abuser has Narcissitic Personality Disorder, the abusee probably fell for the lies and believes that the abuser is the most awesome thing since sliced bread.
Basically, what it boils down to is that if your friend is in the thick of an abusive relationship, you need to be ready for her to be totally illogical, to resist your help/intervention, to be defensive, to probably attack you in response; for the sake of your friend (hard as it is), you can't take these things personally - they are the result of the lies she is hearing pounded into her brain every day by her abuser. It is not her talking; it is him talking through her, because he has taken control of her emotions and thoughts through the abuse.
This makes it really hard to be there for someone who is abused, I know, but no matter her reaction when you talk (assuming he doesn't force her to cancel on you), please continue to be there to support her when she needs you. A lot of abusees need to hit rock bottom with their abuser before they open their eyes and are able to finally run/crawl/sneak away, and even then they still really struggle with it. If she's not receptive to what you have to say now, she may need to rely on your strength to get out of things later down the line, when she finally sees it.
I realize I've projected a LOT based on the small amount you wrote, and I hope hope hope that none of this is the case with your friend, but in case it is, you need to be prepared! (Basically this is the worst case scenario, so don't get freaked out by it, haha. I've always been a "hope for the best, prepare for the worst" person.)
woah, sorry, that's crazy long. If you're afraid it might be abuse, feel free to PM me. I have a bit of experience on that topic and am happy to talk about it if that helps someone else.
@ThePrincessMaggie Lack of communication with friends/family and spending excessive time with a significant other are both common signs of abuse (not always indicative of abuse, but often!) Are other people feeling the same way in regards to communicating with her? Is your FI close with his sister? Would it be more appropriate for him to voice these concerns? As for whatever else is going on that you want to keep private... if it makes you uncomfortable, if it seems like it's abusive... well, it probably is. Suspicions of abuse should not be taken lightly. No amount of abusive behavior is acceptable. If you truly think she's in an abusive relationship, then you should not be supporting the relationship. Supporting her, in that case, is entirely different than supporting the relationship.
There are a lot of resources out there to help people in these situations as well as to help people help their friends in these situations. I'm no expert, but please PM me if you'd like more information. Good luck.
@daydreamwanderer: A couple things stuck out at me in your response:
A lot of abusers are extremely controlling, often not letting the abusee have social engagements with out them. Is it possible this is the case for your friend?
I fear that it might be. She was never like this with her other boyfriends. She would spend lots of time with them, but not THIS much, and she made time for us.
If the abuser has Narcissitic Personality Disorder, the abusee probably fell for the lies and believes that the abuser is the most awesome thing since sliced bread.
Hit the nail on the nose.
Thanks for writing so much, it was very helpful. I actually think what you "projected" is right on target. Unfortunately :/
I agree, she's not going to say "ohhh you miss me? I miss you too! We can hang out more!"
This conversation is not going to go over well at all, but I was in an abusive relationship before I met FI and I wish someone would have told me they were worried. Everyone liked him and I thought no one would believe me about what was going on. If he's abusive towards her she's got no self esteem of her own. He's taken it away and can withold it from her or give it back to her in small doses whenever he wants. That's the best way to explain why I let my ex walk all over me. He robbed me of my self esteem but at the same time, that made him the only person with any control over how I felt about myself. I think you should let her know you're worried, that's not destroying her happiness, he's already got that covered.
If you aren't very careful, you may make her feel like you're critisizing what kind of friend she is, and that may feel like an attack to her. Just pump her up, tell her all the things you love and miss about her, she needs to hear that right now. Don't say "why don't you ever call me?" instead try something like "your phone calls always make my day", in a less cheesy way than that. Then gently say you're worried that this relationship may not be healthy for her, which is why she can call you anytime she needs to, even if you haven't been talking much lately. I agree that you shouldn't have a big serious talk about how he's a jerk, just let her know you're there no matter what. She needs people to help her regain her self esteem right now, so focus on that.
She's in a tough spot right now, and probably can't make more plans with you, and even if she does she'll break them. So instead of focusing on how you miss her and want to see her more, just let her know you love her. I took this exact approach with my best friend, it had gotten really bad though, I told her I couldn't support her relationship anymore and that even though we're distant right now she can call me any time she needs me. After weeks without talking she called saying she just broke up with him. She's going to feel like she has no where else to go, so give her somewhere.
That being said, I've also had a friend accuse my FI of hitting me. She was bailing on my birthday party to hang out with a guy and when another friend confronted her so she lied and said she's not comfortable around him because he hits me. She knew our friend would believe that because of my past abusive ex, and although I don't talk to the girl who started the rumor, my other friend STILL has a hard time trusting FI. I understand that you're coming from a good place with this, and the friend I mentioned wasn't, but still be very sure that something is going on before you say anything, false accusations like that are hard to take back.
@constellation: Are other people feeling the same way in regards to communicating with her? Is your FI close with his sister? Would it be more appropriate for him to voice these concerns?
Yes. My other MOH can't even get ahold of her at all, even to plan my bridal shower and bachelorette party. I also know they (best friend and her FI) have stopped hanging out with their old friends.
FI and best friend aren't really that close and I think it would be really awkward and hard for him to do that. FI is really shy. I think it would be better coming from the person she used to tell everything to.
@Moja Milosc: Thanks, you're very helpful.
I really wasn't planning on saying anything like, "he is abusive you need to leave him" because, yes, he seems like he is and he has a past of abusive relationships, but like you said, I don't know for sure because I'm not in the relationship.
Update!
She didn't flake on me, but she was an hour late. She monopolized the conversation with her wedding talk, about how she has already found a dress, is going dress shopping more, is doing all these wedding things that I am apparently not going to be involved in, because she kept saying "we are doing this."
I told her I missed her and she said, "Yeah, FI and I just like staying home alone."
She was talking about how he wants to move halfway across the country in the middle of their college careers for no particular reason, but she was afraid that being pregnant during a move might be hard. I was like, "um, what? do you think you might get pregnant?" and she said that yes, her FI is refusing to wear condoms or pull out and he (I don't want to say makes, he doesn't force her, but he coerces her I guess) to have sex even when she is ovulating.
So I guess he wants kids now. Its just really not a good time for them to have a baby because they live with two other roommates in a tiny room and have minimum wage jobs and go to school. But I guess they don't care and are just going to let her get pregnant.
So frustrated.
Okay this is sounding like an isolative relationship. He wants her at home all to himself, pregnant so then she's really his, and then he wants to move her away from everyone because then she'll have nowhere to go to leave him. Are you close with her parents? Maybe try telling your future in-laws once you have more information about it? It sounds bad, not to be grim. I'm never one to use the term "red flag", but this is like a flashing neon sign.
Abuse always escalates and typically gets worse after marriage, pregnancy and moving away from family.
Do you have access to abuse counselors? I know we had them at my college... Maybe speaking to one of them could help you to approach this the best way? I would just be sooo worried that once she's married to him and has his baby she's locked down and won't be able to get away easily. I'm more aggressive about these things, but once you have solid proof this is happening, let her know you know what's going on and tell her you'll help her leave if she ever wants to. She sounds like she's on a short leash.
Alright she just called me and said she just got a positive pregnancy test.
@Moja Milosc: I take online classes and my campus is 4 hours away. I will talk to my therapist to see what I should do.
Oh my gosh. Wow, I try not to jump to definitive conclusions on here, but I am so worried for your FSIL. I won't say to NOT try any immediate actions that other people suggest, but assuming she won't listen to reason right now, I would say it is SOOOO important to make sure that she is totally aware that she can come to you if she needs anything, ever. That way, if/when it goes bad and she realizes that she is in an abusive relationship, she doesn't feel completely trapped.
I feel for you right now, this is so heartbreaking.
Tell her you MISS the friendship and closeness. Don't say abondended makes you sound needy. Just say you really miss her and would like to hang out more again. I'm not sure about the other portion, but really thing about it all before you mention it. Feel how the conversation goes before you say anything.
@yearns4god: Well we already went to dinner today and I told her I missed her. I addressed pretty much everything you said already in previous posts.
wow I read everything... I am sorry for her and sorry for you...
I think you should take the hook out of her and say something like "I know is alot going on in your life right now, and you need the time to focus on your own wedding and pregnancy so if you want to not stand up at my wedding I would love to have you as a guest" If that was all she wanted to hear she will tell you I am sorry but yes you are right I ve being too busy lately bla bla bla...but if she still wants to be your MOH she will be like NO WAY I wil be there for you so on so on...
If the case will be that she will not be the MOH anymore then you should move on enjoy your wedding planing and let her live her life ...if she is being abused she will not realize that and only will want to get far from you if you bring this subject up.
Its gonna be the time that eventualy she will come back and she will have your shoulders to cry on , when she finaly wakes up...but that will be in way way down to the line.
So try to enjoy your wedding planing because the wedding day will pass so fast and you will feel like you didnt enjoy the jorney that took you there because you were worried about other people.
I know I may sound harsh but I 've being in the both sides in the side when I was being in a abusive relationship and didnt want anything to do with my friends and in the side to have a close friend in that situation and for both situation the only solution is the TIME.
@Pink Princess: I took your advice and said that to her, and she said she still wants to be MOH, but she just isn't sure that her dress will fit anymore. So she does care. I will try to enjoy planning more, thank you.
I just wanted to say that I took the time to read your post and a few of the posters comments. When I read what you wrote, immediately I thought, this girl is being abused. And there's no doubt because I've walked in those shoes before.
Daydreamwandere hit the nail on the head. My friends and my mother that now know what went on ask me what they could have done to have helped me. And really there wasn't much, other than to ask me, if there was abuse going on. My mom says she knew something wasn't write but was too afraid to ask. My gf's hated him, but were sick of telling me that and me not listening. But everytime I heard the word abuse, the picture became a little clearer and for that moment I couldn't deny it to myself that I was in the middle of hell and had no idea how to get out of it. I was too afraid to ask for help incase I didn't use that help wisely and then I had let someone in on my shameful little secret. The embarrassment is insurmountable, what's wrong with me if I could let someone treat me like this?
Apparently, it takes 7 times to ask a woman if she's being abused before she begins to admit it. All I can say is always be there for her, even when it feels like she's been less than a great friend to you. I really wish everything works out for her.
@ThePrincessMaggie: Yikes....Ive been reading everything here and I am so sorry for you that she is acting this way and sorry for her because she clearly needs a close friend to hear some reality from right now!
I was in a terrible relationship before and honestly....it didn't matter what my friends said...I had to see it myself....and when I was done with him....they were there.
I will never be able to thank them for their MULTIPLE attemps of rescue...and if I could go back: I'd listen to every word they told me.
So don't be afraid to come on too strong or anything...you are her BF and her FSIL! It's your duty to look out for her and her happiness and the lives of your future neices and nephews!!! God forbid she gets pregnant and he leaves he! Or takes the kids...yikes.
I pray for her and for you? I say: you're a good person for caring and trying....keep it up, one day she will see what you're doing
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Hey Bees,
Tomorrow I am going to have dinner with my "best friend." I have some concerns with her that I would like to talk about, and my therapist thinks it would be a good idea to talk with her about them too.
First of all, I have two MOH's and she is one of them. She is also my FSIL.
The biggest problem I have with her is that I feel like she has abandoned me. I used to see her 1-2 times a week and now I see her once a month. When I see her, it is always with her fiance. She does nothing without him. She hardly ever texts me or calls me or tries to communicate. I initiate everything pretty much and sometimes she never even gets back to me. We used to just go out for dinner and sit for hours and talk and talk about everything. I hardly know what's going on with her now. I feel like this new guy has taken my place or something. i am hurt and I want things to change.
Second of all, I am concerned she is rushing into her engagement. She got engaged a couple days ago after dating this guy a few months (not sure exactly how long because they were kind of friends with benefits first...). He also does not want kids and she does want kids and has broken up with guys before because they didn't want kids. She has also told me some very dark things about her fiance, which makes me not trust him. I realize it's her life, but we are supposed to be best friends, and I want to be able to be honest with her and get her side of the story. I also want to be happy for her.
How do I say all this kindly and constructively? Or should I not say some things?