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I would feel very uncomfortable entering into a twenty-year plus legal commitment (mortgage!) with someone I'm not married to. It's probably logistically easier to get a divorce than to dissolve a mortgage, especially in this economy. So, my honest opinion would be to talk about it frankly and openly with him. You don't need a diamond ring to get married.
Don't worry about discussing marriage right now, although if you feel the need discuss it briefly so you don't overwhelm him... you've already got him so just take it one step at a time... MY SO and bought our first house together in 2008 and we would briefly discuss marriage. Just focus on getting your house and everything will fall into place.. after moving together and getting all settle in, last year, 2009, we started talking about marriage and now we're in the process of engagement.
We talked about it every so often... now we talk about it all the time... No worries girl, all will fall into place.
Hmm.. He's okay entering a legal monetary 30 year commitment with you, but not discussing marriage? Um. Does he realize one or both of you are going to get royally screwed if you break up after buying a house?
If you are okay with it, then fine but I personally would not even TALK about buying property with a BF. My FI and I spoke about marriage quite often and when he moved in I told him he had 4 months to propose or he had to move out. Either way, I could pay the rent on my own so I wasn't depending on him or vice versa.
Just be careful - not being able to afford a ring is a very popular excuse guys use who refuse to think about marriage. If marriage were important to him he would insist on allocating SOME of the money he is saving for the house towards your ring. Or at least he would be willing to discuss it with you and have a plan! Doesn't he realize all the $hit you are going to take for buying a house with him without a ring? I don't care how liberal you (not you personally, but people) are, the FEMALE is going to get all the heat, not the male!!!
After two years, and in the midst of buying real estate together, absolutely (!) it is not too much to ask for a timeline! In fact, I would suggest you approach it from that point -- you are making a huge committment with the house, and you'd just like to have an idea of how far out he is thinking he would be ready to buy a ring.
To clarify, are you just house hunting at this point? Or actually "in the process of buying" like you mentioned? If you're still just looking, I would seriously consider putting the breaks on the whole house thing, if you are really serious about wanting to get engaged. That is an enormous life decision to be making, tying yourself to someone with a $XXX,000 purchase, when you are still unclear about his plans for your future together.
Check out our (somewhat new) old standby here in the Waiting board, Mr. Bee's Plan for Getting Engaged. The point is that if your man is not showing he is ready to commit to you in marriage, focus on committing to yourself and your own life, rather than making your life as a couple the priority. If he wants to join the Bostongrl party and become your priority, as your husband, he'll make a move. It really is as simple as that.
Ditto @ Cinnamon and ModernDaisy! We were all writing our posts at the same time... I thought mine was gonna be the first one, haha. :)
i definitely agree. My FI and I lived together for a short while over the summer, but we knew it was just a temporary thing. One of the most wonderful things that he said to me during the proposal is how he knows living together is a big commitment and that he wishes he would have proposed before we lived together at all. There is no way we could have bought a house together without being married first. It really is a huge commitment and if he is not ready to tell you that he wants to spend the rest of his life with you, I would be wary of buying a house with him.
Agree with everyone else, it is quite a significant commitment purchasing a house together. That suggests that marriage is definite, so you shouldn't have any problems discussing it. I would not be comfortable in that situation without a finite timeline on the marriage. I just moved in with my BF after 8+ months of dating, and the caveat on that was that there has to be an engagement within a year.
I'm with everyone else on the whole buying a house before marriage thing being a no no.
I'm going to add another idea to this thread that none of the other bees have suggested yet.
Sorry to be a downer, but you have to consider ALL the possibilities. It doesn't even have to be a breaking-up issue, it could be something entirely different. WHAT IF (and this is depressing but still valid in the realm of possibilities, so bear with me) after buying the house, he suddenly passed away for some reason? Being that you aren't married, unless he has a significant amount of money in savings and has willed-it to you, or you are the beneficiary on his life insurance policy, YOU are going to be the one stuck with a house payment that yes, you BOTH can afford right now, but on ONE person's income wouldn't be possible (this is pure assumption, since I don't know what either of you do for a living).
It is a super-scary world out there, and people are insane (this is my honest opinion) and I would never get into a commitment like that without a legal claim to the man, not just the property. My very best friend is in the middle of moving (buying) a house with her boyfriend of not even one year, and I think she is making the biggest mistake ever, but that's a whole different story so I won't bore you with it.
I wish you the best, and I would definately have a serious talk with your bf. Don't let him avoid the topic. (and IMHO, I don't think it's a money issue. He's buying a HOUSE for crap's sake!)
I think you that you need to look at this in different perpectives. Some people get married and engaged and cannot even afford a home becuase all the money is spent on materialistic things like rings and weddings so then they are stcuck renting an apartment.
In my honest opinion if he is ready to make a commitment of buying a house becuase, yes that too takes commitment and he wants to get married, then you should do what is in your heart. Not everyone feels that you have to be engaged to move in. What if you get engaged and move and you still whind up breaking up, then your still in the same boat. Studies have shown that more marriages are breaking because couples cannot cohabitate after getting married becuase they cannot come to agreements and cannot deal with the other persons behavior.
Again, do whats in your heart and if you have a life insurance policy, put him in case he does happen to pass away...
Maybe a discussion is in order. You two have different priorities it seems. He might be going on the assumption you're ok with the "house now/ring later" plan since you haven't explicity said you're not.
You can't take his "no money now" reasoning as the end of the story. You guys must have a fair amount of money saved up for the down payment if you're buying a house in a pricy market like Boston. If he wanted to buy you a $2-3k ring and it meant waiting a few more months to buy, he could. Maybe he doesn't understand that that's what you're asking. He might be in super excited "house house house" mode - maybe you need to reel him in a little if you aren't feeling quite as ready.
Something for you to consider - if you have the above discussion w/ him and it turns out he doesn't want to propose for another year or two (or vague timeline) - would you still buy the house w/ him? Or would you not want to anymore? I think you need to get really clear on his timeline before you buy, otherwise, you're totally stuck.
It's not the worst thing in the world to keep renting a little longer. I have nothing against living together before marriage/commitment - but for me, I am not signing a mortgage until after the wedding even though we live together now and are pretty much ready ($wise) to house shop if we wanted to.
Thank you for the feedback everyone. I understand that every couple is different but for my boyfriend and I, this works. He is the most wonderful man I have ever known and I know that someday when the timing is right we will get married. I DO understand why people are hesitant (or just totally refuse) to even think about entering into a 30 year mortgage with someone I have no legal ties to. But again, we are both comfortable and it works for us. I have no doubts in my mind that he doesn't plan on spending the rest of his life with me.
@queenbee-This is a valid concern and one that I absolutely have thought about. My father suddenly passed away when I was young and as morbid and weird as it may sound, it is something that needs to be discussed. I have life insurance, and he does not. So even if we were married it really wouldn't make a difference.
Thanks again everyone for your feedback.
@prettyflowers-3.5% down payment, and moving to Rhode Island where real estate is more affordable (Boston is just ridiculous!). And I am ok with the house now/ring later. I just need a timeline of events and I guess thats what my originial post was about. We are going to discuss it tonight. If it does come out that we won't get engaged for another 2-3 years (which I highly doubt it will based on previous convos) then yes, I would still ended into a mortgage with him right now.
My b/f and I plan on purchasing a house sometime next year after I graduate and get job. We talk about marriage but I'm trying to put Mr.Bee's plan into action. I do agree that the other posters concerns are valid about it being a big commitment. We don't have a timeline but I know he does want to be married and start having kids before his 32. He turns 29 this year so we'll see. I would prefer to be engaged befoe we purchase a house because it's such a big commitment but I'm also flexible in doing it before. Buying a house before we get engaged works for me were already living together it's not for everyone though.
We talk about marriage a fair bit, however we are in the process of buying a house together, and he's now realising that now would be a good time to get a ring while he still has the money! It happens organically in conversation though, it's not necessarily actively brought up.
We purchased a house together 9 years ago. We were not engaged at that time, but neither of us wanted to get married. He proposed about a year after we had the house, but I still wasn't ready to get married. I am now though. We were fine with the arrangement. I handle all the bills just like if we were married and we have a joint checking and savings account. For some people this works; others not, but it worked for us and we have no regrets.
Forgot to say: We rarely talked about marraige, but we lived like we were.
Me and BF talk about it in spurts..usually I bring it up but sometimes he does. We'll talk getting engaged/rings everyday for about a week then drop it for like 3 weeks...then one of us will mention something and it just cycles through again.
PS- I wouldnt buy a house with him juuuuust yet.
i do think it is very essential to be discussing marriage at this point .ur not only investing ur time and emotions but also ur investing heavily finacially into a home.its only natural that u would want to kn when the next step is coming.i suggestion in a NON NAGGING OR confrontational way tell him u kn things are tight at the moment but u would like to kn his thought on the matter and not just some statement that he wants to marry u.like how soon after the purchase of the house or set aside even if its $50 a month or whatever is available for the ring purchase. that way it wont seem like a huge added expense.if ur willing suggest going have and half on the sum.at least this way u will have some piece of mind that eventually at some point u'll have ur engagement.at least he should be willing to look at rings and geta general idea about the prices before he just says i cant offord one.
good luck
I agree with Bird, if you want to move forward with the house that's all well and good, but I think you deserve a solid conversation with actual answers revealed before you put yourself in this position... not just "i want to marry you someday" type vaguery. I imagine once you two buy the house money will be quite tight for a while, so it's not like suddenly the cash will appear for this unless he makes it a real priority to get it done. I think the monthly savings plan is a good suggestion you could raise w/ him.
if you're buying a house together, it's okay to ask him for his thoughts on a timeline for marriage and make sure he's aware of yours. you're investing in your future together when you buy a house...so it's reasonable to be talking about what else that future entails.
i have friends who bought houses with their bfs before engagement/marriage and are fine, and i have other friends who bought houses with their bfs and then broke up. i think if you're confident, that's the best you can ask for.
as for me, the mr and i talk about marriage a lot. i know a ring is coming fairly soon, because we live together and i moved 4 hours away to be with him, and we've talked about it all.
@Bostongrl25 I know a lot of ladies (many in my family) that bought a house and then got engaged/married. Personally, if I had the money to buy a house and I found something we wanted to buy before the engagement/marriage I would go ahead and purchase it.
As for your question, oy I bring up getting married all the time :) He takes it in stride and I try not to pressure him too much. I think it is more than acceptable for you to talk about a timeline since he is obviously very committed.
I have a bit of a different perspective - I recently bought a house with my boyfriend and we arent engaged yet. We wanted to be financially secure before we got married - my boyfriend wanted to feel like he could provide for me properly. Plus in Australia - when we bought - there were some big financial incentives to buying then. We got a first home buyers grant, and the house prices were still quite low. Already 6 months later the grant has gone down quite significantly and the house prices have risen $50k in our area. It made financial sense.
That said, we have both protected ourselves financially. If things go wrong there is an agreement in place regarding the house, and if god forbid he or I were to pass away unexpectedly, we are on a joint life insurance policy that pays the other out. The money it pays will be enough to pay off the house so we are covered that way.
Every couple is different, and certainly buying a house together is a massive commitment. Just because he isnt talking about specifics (when and where) of marriage, doesnt mean he doesnt want to marry you. If he didnt, why would he go into this huge financial commitment with you. And as people have said - its a LOT easier to get a divorce than sell a house and divide assets.
Good luck with the house hunting!
We have discussed it more and more over that last two years since we picked out rings.. Now I'm not always the one who brings it up, he brings it up often. And even more often our families bring it up... They all wish he'd hurry up with the ring already! At least we got a timeline set and a wedding date set, but come on with the bling already.
We talk about it seriously infrequently - maybe once every several months. We mention it in passing maybe once every few weeks. I don't think we talk about it much and we didn't talk about it at the 1.5 year point.
We talk about marriage more often with every passing day. For me, I'm at a point in my life where my financial liberty is really important to me (I need to make decisions for myself over the next months as I start my career), so buying a house with anyone would be a big no-no. I also won't live with my boyfriend before marriage for similar reasons. Just do what you feel is best. :)
Probably too much.. At least once a day and 85% of the time its him who brings it up lol.
All the time, but HE brings it up. I refuse to talk about it unless he brings it up.LOL
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Just wondering how often you guys talk about it? My bf and I live together and are in the process of buying a house together, so of course we have, although BRIEFLY discussed it before. I only have had a breakdown once in the 2+ years we have been together in which he said of course he wants to marry me, he just can't afford a ring (this is true. All money goes to the future house right now). I really do try not to bring it up but last weekend on a longggg car ride to visit his family I casually mentioned it, and he didn't have much to say per usual. Then I said that he shy's away from the topic of marriage. He said he does that because he knows he can't afford a ring and that it makes him feel bad. Of course I said I don' t need an expensive ring, yada yada. Then we dropped it.
Im just wondering how often you guys talk about it? With the house hunting in full force right now I feel like we should be discussing marriage. Maybe its the planner in me, but I don't think its too much to ask for a general time line of events.
Ugh, Im just frustrated. thank God for wedding bee!!!