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I'm actually trying to lose weight because I don't want to be unhealthy, but I agree that we get way too focused on the numbers sometimes. Thanks for the reminder :).
@jo.lee: Good for you! And I hope that you're successful in your goals. I agree that weight loss is really important for health reasons. I think what's so tricky about the issue of weight is the battle between health and physical appearance, and sometimes the issues get too entangled (and can ultimately go in the opposite direction of health). I wish you the best of luck!
Although I totally agree with you, I would like to say that my understanding of that other post is that weight and body image is very subjective, (hence the weight/heights). I posted on the blog because I felt like it was a place to vent no matter your size. Although I love my body and couldn't be happier to be in the place I am now in live, that is only true 99% of the time... and sometimes its nice to vent whether you are a size 2 or a size 22.
@judithsr: You're so right about that! I don't like to admit it to people IRL that I'm dieting because that seems kind of vain to me, but it's really because I used to eat fast food twice a day and drink cokes all the time! It's hard to stay focused on the health aspect of it, though.
I'm sorry, but I disagree with most of your post. I don't disagree with being happy who you are, but don't settle for being unhealthy. Being overweight, no matter how happy you are with yourself is NOT healthy.
Like the previous comment, I agree the 2 get entangled. I think women have too much pressure to have this ideal weight or size especially for weddings but I don't just say accept yourself for who you are when you are extremely unhealthy. Living a long healthy life for youself, new spouse and future family are fair goals to have.
I have a medical condition which causes rapid and drastic weight fluctuations. I'm battling 30 pounds gained in 8 weeks right now. I have no control over it and it's highly upsetting to be physically fit (I exercise and eat healthy on a regular basis) yet have no control. I constantly get remarks about my weight from people who don't understand my condition and until recently they upset me often. I've learned to just let it go. It's a running joke that I'm pregnant and not telling anyone, and I've learned to accept it.
@Miss Biner: I don't think being happy with the way you are is "settling for being unhealthy". The OP didn't say anything about being overweight and healthy. She was just saying we shouldn't put ourselves down. You can be overweight, unhealthy, STRIVING TO LOSE WEIGHT, and still be happy with who you are as a person...doesn't mean you are being complacent in being fat, and doing nothing to change yourself.
@judithsr: I was actually going to make a post like this, but I had to leave for work.
I did read and comment on the other post, though I tried to avoid the listing actual numbers as much as I could - though I am always tempted to point myself out as an example of the whole muscle is denser than fat issue.
It really gets to me that the idea of saying we are more than our weight is seen as some sort of threat against healthiness. It's not. Everyone has a DIFFERENT point at which they're healthy and you do not reach that point by stepping on a scale. You reach that point by eating mostly healthy foods, getting some exercise that feels good, and treating your body well (rather than hating it). There are people at all sizes who are unhealthy and do not do those things and that is a totally different issue from how sad it is that women of all sizes are conditioned to focus on whatever we don't like about our bodies.
@Miss Biner: I fully agree that being healthy is very important, and that obesity can at times prevent one from being healthy. (At least in regards to the physical). And in no way do I encourage anyone to be at a weight that creates other health problems, ESPECIALLY if that's not what they want.
At the same time, a focus on numbers does not equate being healthy. There are many instances when focus on weight can be extremely problematic, in the case of individuals who develop eating disorders (which are of course much more than a concern about their physical appearence, but it does play a big part).
Of course I agree that being healthy is really important. At the same time, I don't think that being a specific number requires you to be healthy. And maybe for some, being obese is what leads them to be happier. (There are different forms of health after all--physical and mental health both need to be taken into account).
I could definitely be a different weight than I am right now, and I'm sure my body may be happier about it. Though I have no health problems, and have a LOT of things (unrelated to my physical appearence) to be happy about. And that was ultimately my point--happiness doesn't have to be about how you look, and I hope that people don't get SO stuck in that state of mind.
Also, being happy with WHO YOU ARE vs. happy with YOUR WEIGHT are two totally different things. Too often, we get confused and think because we are overweight, we have no worth, value, etc. I think what the OP is saying, is that we shouldn't just focus on looks, but learn to love ourselves the way we are...and whatever eating/exercising improvements we can make, those are good things too.
@KaitlinHudson: This is another point. I know many people who have very little control over their weight because of medical conditions or medications they have to take. Which doesn't even get into the whole question of how much of our body shape is determined by genetics (quite a bit).
@DanielleZara: That's exactly what I was going for. well, that was my point...finding happiness beyond our physical appearance, which can be SO hard to do because we're conditioned to look at beauty as our ultimate value. (NOT true at all)
@Entangled: (& Kaitlin) I appreciate you bringing this up, because this is even more of a reaffirmation of what I'm saying. When you can't control something about your physical appearance, it's even more of a reason to not go to physical as the ultimate measure of beauty. Maybe a cheesy/overused comparison, but it's like finding fault in the color of your skin--something beyond your control.
And yes there are people who have control over their weight, and others who don't. And ultimately, that doesn't matter. It's important that people are seen for more than how they look, and more than their weight.
I love how I look and what size I am however I hate it when people ask for numbers! I weigh a lot more than I look like I do. I weigh 150 and I am only 5'3 but I wear a size 2! I use to weigh 144 and be a size 0! So I hate when people bring up numbers! I have asked my doctor multiple times if I should try to get to a lower number and she always say "No" that I am 100% healthy!
So I agree that yes just be happy with who you are, no matter what number or size you are everyone is different! However I do believe that you need to be healthy! But focusing on a certain number that isn't attainable to you isn't healthy!
Well put! I am definitely over the idea of the number on the scale or on the tag in my shirt. I am NOT what I eat. I feel better when I choose to eat more healthy foods BUT on the occaions when I choose NOT to eat those things, I'm still valuable, attractive and an asset to this world. It's natural to feel badly about yourself sometimes, but then you have to refocus and kick those silly thoughts to the curb.
@sizzle: Nooo! You must be even buffer than I am. :P I actually consider it a pretty big accomplishment to add lean mass. It's hard to do (especially for women) and sooo healthy - great for bone strength, for metabolism, etc.
I don't think people *need* to be physically healthy, though. It's a great thing to do. Feel great, correllates with longer life, gives you more energy, often makes you look better, too. BUT that sort of mentality can slide into blaming people for being sick, whether it's something that affects their physical appearance or not. The truth is that some people will get cancer and high cholesterol and heart disease and thousands of other sicknesses regardless of how healthy their lifestyle is.
I would encourage everyone to be as physically active and eat as healthfully as they can without stressing and obsessing over it, but I refuse to judge anyone who doesn't and I refuse to believe that my spending a couple hundred dollars a month on fruits and vegetables and an hour every day at the gym (when I could donate that time and money to helping the needy, to supporting a family, to a million other things) makes me a better person.
@Entangled:lol I don't even think i'm that buff! It just runs in my family all of us ladies on my moms side weigh a lot more than we look! In high school I usually had about the same bmi as most of the boys in my gym class though! Which is odd since usually a girls is much higher! genetics I guess lol!
@Entangled: I don't mean to be a nelly nay-sayer but I think you should be careful with comments like that... there is actually quite a bit of evidence that many diseases are modern day diseases which are directly related to lack of physical activity and unhealthy lifestyles. Not to mention the costs to society of being unhealthy... I obv totally agree that people can choose to live however they please... but I absolutely believe that people "should" strive to be healthy. If not for themselves, then for their community...
Watching what you eat and trying to lose weight before your wedding (and after) does not equal self loathing or a negative self image. You can love yourself while still working hard to lose weight (in fact, one can argue that maybe you love yourself more by making the effort to lose weight, as opposed to resigning yourself to being heavier than you'd like and justifying inaction by proclaiming how happy you are at a size 22.) There's a middle ground. Those posters saying stuff like"I'm 5'8" and 100 pounds I'M SO FAT" are on one end of the spectrum. On the other end are the "I weigh 400 pounds and I am FABULOUS!!!! Gimme another donut!" posters. A healthy mindset lies somewhere in the middle.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with paying attention to your health and weight and keeping it in check. It's much more of a struggle for some of us than others. Just because it's a struggle doesn't mean you're unhappy and have a poor sense of self worth. To the contrary, it means you care about yourself and your health and are doing what it takes to maintain a body imagine you're happy with.
@Miss_Pura Vida: I think a lot of this is tied in with poverty, though. I have read some of the studies linking diseases such as cancer to lifestyle and the correllations are beyond spurious... the biggest one that came out a couple of years ago actually found that some types of cancer decreased in incidence as weight increased while other types decreased and hardly any of it was statistically significant despite a large sample size. The press release and all the articles about it only reported the few connections between obesity and increased risk.
There are TONS of studies like this. I totally agree that it's probably a good idea in the long run to be relatively healthy. (I hate having to bring up my own habits as evidence because I don't find them relevant but I am actually a very healthy eater and exercise daily because it makes me feel good.) But obesity is soooo correllated with poverty and lack of access to healthy food, time and safe places to exercise, etc. So much of the shaming of people over their habits really just feels like finding a socially acceptable way to shame people for being poor and lower class.
If my greatest concern were the increased health costs of other people's habits, I would be very concerned with shaming those who don't wear their seat belts, who are underweight (very, very bad for you!), who don't wear sunscreen, ride motorcycles, play contact sports, etc... and I would encourage everyone to smoke because smokers actually cost less (they die of things that kill quickly). I don't want to argue the relative risks of each of these activities and the health care cost studies, but I do think that aggregate costs of people's habits is usually not the true underlying concern. In reality, I don't really care if strangers do or don't do any of these things because they don't really affect me.
@Miss_Pura Vida: I totally understand what you are saying. Obesity has cost a lot of money for this country, it creates a lot of health problems, and is growing to be a bigger and bigger concern in terms of causing death in this country. Which is wild!
But on the other hand, if everyone who was obese could flip a switch and start eating right and exercising could do it, don't you think they would? A lot of things come along with obesity, including mental health as well as medications and medical conditions, and obesity did not happen to that individual overnight. Weight loss and a healthy lifestyle aren't going to happen overnight either.
So although I completely understand and appreciate your point, it's important to recognize how hard the flipside is as well. I certainly have some weight I could lose...to fit into my 'normal' BMI range (although my last physical shows I'm 100% healthy...so who knows exactly what BMI "normalcy" means) and I have done my fair share of research on food and exercise and healthy lifestyles...and I still struggle. Every day is its own battle, but nevertheless it is still important to be HAPPY with who you are. Because day to day, as you fight that battle, you are the person you have to live with.
@lezlers: You said what I was trying to say MUCH more concisely. It is such a hard battle and "healthy" means something different to everyone.
@Entangled: I totally hear you about the poverty issue. I live in Brooklyn, and I can see some of it everyday. If I had $20 to feed my family for an entire week, would I be choosing organic fruits and vegetables? No! Those $1 meals at McDonalds will probably strech a heck of a lot further. Really, it's a failing of our government and our society who have forced people in that position to make those decisions. I'm definitely NOT impoversished, but I am a struggling unemployed recent graduate, and those decisions CAN be hard to make. Usually, mine aren't so drastic. But there are times in the grocery store where I know that organic milk is better for my body and health...but right now, I can't afford to pay upwards of an extra $2 a gallon.
I have to say that one of the other threads really made me sad. Not only was it a lot of self-loathing, which I completely understand and am not condemning people for, but it was also a lot of...stats: "I weigh xxx and I'm xxx tall" and then a lot of "oh, you're probably a size x" or "there's no way you're fat! I'm fatter than you!" or whatever. I stopped reading the thread--not because anyone was being inappropriate, but that sort of stat-mongering just doesn't sit well with me. I think that it's missing the point and contributes to the problem, really, because even when one is being supportive, ultimately what's being supported is this idea that there is a perfect weight and height ratio and we are all measurable along a sliding scale. Participating in that sort of thing was to me, still upholding the fact that there is a standard.
I'm overweight. I'm on WW losing weight. I exercise 4-6x/week; my eating habits are decent. I do this because I really do feel lik s--t when I don't, but I'd be lying that the benefits of looking better aren't part of it. BUT. Despite the fact that I am pretty far from the ideal body type, I've also done just as much mental work convincing myself that I'm okay. And now, even though I still have the occasional terrible day and I'm still a work in progress, most of the time, I like my figure. I'm strong, I'm a proportional hourglass, and at the end of the day, I can't chop off my head and put it on Gisele's body, so what other choice do I have but to train myself to love it. That doesn't mean that it's a delusional self-love; it just means that I'm trying to teach myself self-respect. In the case of weight loss, that means that I lose weight out of respect for my life and my body: that I change my eating habits so they are no longer abusive and I exercise not to punish myself or beat my body into submission, but because it enjoys a little activity. I don't want to lose weight out of a sense that I am deficient in some way. So every day, I literally have to remind myself that I have to be kind to my own reflection. It's sort of a sad reality that I have to do so.
@Miss_Pura Vida: I agree.
I think it is unfortunate that the last post was taken to be negative. I think it was created for people to complain about their bodies... period. Everyone has something about their body they are uncomfortable with or work towards changing. A few of the people who posted were fishing for compliments, or possible derranged but for the most part -- it was simply girls venting about their bodies. Most of them did not have unhealthy goals... most were hoping to lose a 5 or 10 lbs... and the fact is -- losing lbs, affects inches, affects sizes, affects flubber...
You are right -- height and weight combinations do not represent all body shapes -- but it is a pretty good way to give others a visualization of yourself without sending pictures in bathing suits. I personally posted because although I am happy with my body -- i could definitely firm up.... and that is something I have a hard time with....so I was venting.
What I hate - is when I am in a group of people and we are all complaining about our bodies (which all girls do) and I mention the cottage cheese on my butt. In NO way is that ever attractive on anyone -- big or small, so why not complain about it? Well people act like I dont have the right to complain about it because I am smaller than them. So basically what it comes down to - is if I am smaller than THEM then I am automatically perfect.... and if I want to complain about my body then too bad because I am smaller than you which takes away my right to complain. Very irritating. Considering I work hard to eat extremely healthy - avoid white carbs, sugar, fried food, and everything else delicious- I think i have the right to say - DARNIT I do this, this, and this with zero results!
Thanks for posting this. I was actually reading the other thread and got really upset and emotional because I was nowhere near to any of the "fat" weights that were posted (or at least the ones I saw).
It's sad to me because while I am overweight, I'm pretty healthy. I workout at least 4 days a week doing weights, cardio, and yoga, I take 3 krav maga classes a week, and I participate regularly in roller derby. I have a physical every year and my blood pressure and cholesterol are all well within healthy ranges. However, I also have health conditions that make it very difficult for me to lose weight. I hate that I am judged for my weight when it isn't really a reflection of how healthy I am.
On the flip side, I know plenty of "skinny" girls who are praised as being "healthy" when they eat nothing but junk and smoke 2 packs a day. It's not about the weight, it's about the total package.
Ultimately, I know that I have to realize that I can only control how I feel and think about my body, not how others do but it's still hurtful - especially on sites like this where we're all generally here for support, help, and recommendations (not criticism!)
@phedre: I don't believe anyone was insulting you or calling you fat in that thread. Like the poster above you said, the thread was created for women to bitch about our bodies, as we are prone to do. While it's unfortunate that you have a medical condition that makes it difficult to lose weight, that doesn't mean that no one is allowed to complain about how they look on any medium you might frequent. It also doesn't mean posters aren't being supportive.
@lezlers: I didn't mean that anyone was being insulting just that it was upsetting to me. I'm sorry if it came off that way. Of course everyone is allowed to bitch about their body issues!
@phedre: That's because no one on that post was really fat...they just feel fat. And I totally agree with everything you said. For me, I don't feel fat, I AM fat lol so it does upset me sometimes when people who are underweight or average complain about their weight...makes me feel worse. I think everyone no matter what their size is, should be happy with themselves (even if not happy with weight). But, I do understand that ALL OF US get sad sometimes, totally normal. SO, I do agree with the OP that we need a reminder every once in a while, that we should look at more than just our body image to encourage ourselves and determine our happiness. :)
I want to reply to some of what I'm seeing said here (and really what prompted me to post what I did)...
I'm all for having a space to vent...I think venting is good, and healthy. What I find to be problematic and dangerous is when the posting turns into comparisons...oh I'm fat because I'm X height, or weight, or whatever, or I'm only this size. In my mind, not only does that not reinforce the fact that there are positive qualities about you for who you are, it also allows other people to potentially feel insecure and not measure up.
I guess part of the issue for me too is that we feel the need to put down ourselves due to issues of weight and height (whether or not they're correlated with health). I think it's unfortunate that women DO so often turn to criticisms about their bodies as a common form of venting, and I think that it's sad that it is such an instant go to.
I think for me, what's lying under all of this, is the hope that women can feel pretty and attractive and good about themselves, and not get so wrapped up in what the numbers mean unless they choose to, and it's really positively impacting their physical and mental well-being. And unfortunately there are so many external sources that tell us to go in the opposite direction, and that just makes me sad.
I don't think people were intending to not be supportive or to betlittle others' bodies by having insecurities about their own. And I do agree that it can be cathartic to vent about what you don't like about yourself and enlightening to see that others, of all sizes, share the same insecurities.
But there is something about the comparing heights and weights that can really get people down. As women I feel like we end up conditioned to think that weight and diet and exercise are so important and so integral to our self-worth. I also think men are being sold the same bill of goods more and more these days. Not that healthy habits are important, but that the hot, fit-looking body is.
Also, not everyone can do WW or count calories or go on a diet and have it be about self-respect and being healthy. Personally, I cannot. The day I start tracking exactly what I eat, is the day I start ignoring my hunger until I shake and sweat, eating food that makes me sick because I am following someone else's guidelines and not my own body, and start hating myself again. [and I was never a full blown anorexic or severely underweight - I'm just a control freak who has different nutritional needs than what's painted as ideal.] Fortunately for my sanity, I don't look like I need to lose weight to be healthy, so I don't get a lot of cognitive dissonance. It actually took awhile into my recovering from that mindset to realize that there are people out there who can lose weight in a healthy manner.
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I want to start this by saying that I apologize if anyone is offended by me writing a post going against another one recently posted--I know there's a tendency for people to be upset by that, and for anyone who is upset, I apologize in advance. It's nothing against anyone specifically, especially not the original poster of the message. I just feel the need to say this, and I feel it's more effective than stating it in the context of lots of ideas that'll go against my own.
Recently, there was a post focusing on people venting about weight frustrations, complete with weights and heights. As women, I feel like we are conditioned way too often to be the ideal weight, ideal height, reach a fake ideal number that I don't think we can ever really reach. For me personally, all it does is make me think wow, I'm nowhere near this number, now I feel bummed. And then look in the mirror and think wow look at this lump of fat here, or this bump here...how upsetting.
Luckily for me, and happily for me, over the years, this has become less of who I am, and I'm able to realize that my weight and height and physical appearance don't have to be how I define myself, and don't have to be the source of my identity when figuring out who I am. Of course I'd be lying if I were to say I don't consider what I look like, and take the time to look in the mirror. And it would be untrue for me to say that I never look at myself and wish for things to be different. At the same time, I'm able to process that thought and move on. I'm able to find satisfaction in who I am for the many other positive things about myself, the gifts I can give to others, and the wonderful things people can give me.
I guess the whole point of this is...I want everyone to be able to find happiness with who you are, despite whatever weight or number you are. Beauty is not limited to a certain size, and is not limited to physical characteristics. I think it's much more positive and affirming to focus on what we love about ourselves, rather than beating ourselves up in a public forum for being a certain weight number that isn't our ideal. And I think it's important that we stop trying to conform to an ideal that is so often shoved down our throats in all forms of media (ESPECIALLY wedding marketing), and find ways to love ourselves for who we are.
Okay, I'm stepping off my soapbox now.