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*hugs* I'm really sorry that your priest worded it like that, but also, in his defense, going to church on Christmas and Easter is not acceptable in the Catholic church. My whole (extended) family is Catholic and they would agree with your priest. Maybe you could find another parish that you feel more comfortable attending? As for the "getting married by an Anglican priest"... I don't know what you mean by "what would happen?" but I would imagine the marriage might not be recognized by the Catholic Church.
I'm sorry your priest was so harsh. Unfortunately that is true in the Catholic church. If you don't go every Sunday, you need to go to confession before accepting communion. I don't think they feel you are a terrible Catholic though!
I just started going to an Anglican church after being raised Catholic. There were just some things I didn't agree with in the church, so decided to try making the switch. I believe the only thing that would "happen" if you got married by an Anglican minister is that the Catholic church would not recognize your marriage. If you're not going to church, then this really shouldn't matter.
I know it's not acceptable in the church, but obviously a vast majority of ppl do that. Since church is only packed full of ppl on those days. And I have been in 3 weddings where I know the couple never went to church either, but they "knew the priest" and one was the priest's cousin. I guess I mean what would happen as in...is the catholic church going to be mad and like excommunicate us or something for being traitors?
@ ottawabride I don't really know anything about Anglicanism (is that the word?), just that my great grand mother was one. I think I learned in school that Henry the VIII started it in England cuz he wasn't agreeing with the Catholic church?? What is the major difference?
There are several differences but I have found it is pretty much the same.
1. Like you mentioned, they accept divorce.
2. They allow females to be ordained.
3. They are supportive of birth control
That's all I can think of at the moment. The masses run basically the same and a lot of the prayers are the same.
Oh, also, they don't require you attend every Sunday in order to receive communion. They also don't require you to be baptized Anglican to receive it. If you are baptized any religion you can take communion.
I kind of find it to be a more liberal version of Catholicism.
I should also add I am in no way an expert and go to church about twice a month!
I'm sorry you're having such a tough time getting married in the church. I know some areas are... stricter... about belonging to a parish in order to have a Catholic ceremony. And I've definitely noticed that people who have "connections" to a church (e.g. knowing the priest, having a relative in the parish, etc...) sometimes get the rules bent in their favor.
If having a Catholic ceremony is really important to you, which it sounds like it is, maybe you could contact your local diocese? The diocese might be able to point you in the direction of a parish or priest who is more liberal on this front. I've also found parish secretaries to be great resources in the wedding planning process. Secretaries can often tell you what the rules of that parish are and if there are any priests who might be willing to work with you even if you don't exactly meet the requirements. If you do get married by a non-Catholic priest, maybe your best bet would be to look into a post-ceremony Catholic blessing or convalidation ceremony. Good luck in your search!
I really like how the Anglican priests were very liberal and accepting, even though we weren't Anglican. And wow they are supportive of birth control? I had this guy (not a priest, but very religious missionary type guy) give me a lecture about that once. He actually a customer of ours, and one day he just started talking to me, cuz he saw my e-ring. And he started this lecture about NFP and told me that birth control pills are "aboratory". And when I said that fiance and I live together, he almost had a heart attack and said that we're pretty much 60% doomed for divorce, according to his statistics. But we have been together for 12 years, the only reason we aren't married yet is because, first we were in school, then college, then my mom had breast cancer, THEN, right after that his dad had throat cancer. And there was no way we were gonna get married during that time with any of our parents missing or sick. (They are both finished with their treatment and doing good btw). I just thought he was being really judgemental and he didn't even know the whole story.
Thanks for that idea of Post-ceremony blessing Mrs. Spring sounds like a good idea
To answer your question about what would happen if you got married in the Anglican church- I think the Catholic Church just wouldn't recognize it. So they would probably tell you not to take communion until you rectify the situation (i.e. get your marriage recognized by the Catholic church- in which case you'd be in the same situation that you are in right now).
And unfortunately, I agree with your statement that a church is like a business. How else will they get money to run the church and its programs without donations from parishoners?
Just to add to the list above - Anglicans no longer have true Apostolic Succession. In the Catholic Church, every priest has been ordained by a bishop, and like a family, descended from the original 12 Apostles, and Peter, the 1st Pope of the Catholic Church.
Because of this broken line, they also don't have the "true presence" of Jesus in the Eucharist... which... brings me back to the OP....
"But, I just find that they are being so unwelcoming if you haven't been going to their church giving money to them every week."
The church doesn't want your money. Do they need it to keep running? Yes. In some ways they ARE a business. They have staff they need to pay (who barely get paid.) They have Air Conditioning to run, they have lights and power to pay for, and programs to help those in the parish and community. However, the church is first and foremost a "community" "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic." We NEED you in the church. Your presence not your money. Just like in the bible, Jesus recounted of those who would come to temple proclaiming all the money they would give, and he praised the small widow who gave but 1 small coin. We are a community, and a part of the body of Christ, so while his delivery really was off, Yes, We NEED you... your presence, your prayers, your participation in the Heavenly Liturgy which is, The Mass. So, don't let him turn you away. Priests are human... they say things that aren't kind at times. I do too...
And, The church (since the time of Jesus) required active and frequent participation in the liturgy. Since, we believe, that by receiving communion, we are PHYSICALLY receiving Christ, it only makes sense that we are as pure as possible. After all, when a guest comes to your home do you not clean house first? You are recieveing the Body of Christ and are them sent to bring him to others. This is why we leave so quickly after communion. You would think that with all that just happened on the Altar Jesus would want us to stay and bask in the Heavenly glory... but no, "The mass is ended, let us go to love and serve the lord."
"IF" you were to be married in an anglican church, or not within the practices of the Catholic church, then your marriage would not be recognized. Just like when you were baptized, Marriage is a Sacrament, just as important. After all, there's only 7, well 6 if you include the fact that Marriage and Holy Orders are a "choose one" kind of deal.
It seems you do love your faith, and the church. So, I would either find a new church... or just begin attending regularly... I think you'll find blessings in going back...
You sound a lot like my best friend. If it wasn't for the fact that she passed away 8 years ago, I would think you were her. She too was baptized, but parents never went. She came with my family and I to mass every week and then completed her Sacraments, about 4 months before her death. It's hard to break the cycle but it can be done. I wish you all the best, and keep us updated!
KLP2010 Sorry about your best friend, I got goosebumps reading that paragraph.
And yes I know they need money to operate, but we are not in the States. We are in Central america, there is no church in this country with air conditioning. And staff is pretty much minimal, and minimum wage is equivalent to $1.50 US. But about the "church is a business" comment, I was talking about this specific church (with the harsh priest) just finished building the most humungous addition like in the whole country, that they're calling a "media center". It is like bigger than the actual church, 4 stories tall and they have hired artists to paint religious scenes on the domed ceiling, they're starting a radio station, with rooms for missionaries and volunteers to stay in, etc. But, then everyday I see this crippled homeless woman in a wheel chair, sleeping on the church steps. I don't know if they give her money or food, but she literally sleeps on the steps. Shouldn't the church help her more instead of painting murals on the ceiling with the collection money??
WHOA! You're in Belize??? I'm getting married there!!!! I, too am Catholic. I looked into a Catholic wedding in Belize and actually found a priest that wouldn't marry me on the beach, but that will come and give a Catholic blessing during the ceremony.
He is in Belize City, and I totally forget his name, but I have it written down in my Belize stuff. He sounds like a really nice guy. Maybe you could talk to him.
I am getting married by my priest here in Kansas before I come to Belize so that I don't have to go through Convalidation. (That's where you have to wait a year to have your marriage recognized by the Catholic Church if you marry outside of it).
Is your FI Catholic?
I'm so excited I found someone on here that lives in Belize. What do you do there?
Just wondering what the difference between a Catholic marriage blessing and a convalidation ceremony is? (or are they the same thing).
@skobies:
The Convalidation is something you have to go through if you get married outside of the Catholic Church and you later want to have your marriage recognized by the Church. It takes one year for your marriage to be official with the Church.
They Catholic blessing would just be the priest saying a prayer during the ceremony, but because it's on the beach, it still would not be recognized by the Church, and the priest would not sign the marriage certificate. It's not a common thing, it's just an option the wedding planner gave me, in case I wanted to add something Catholic to the beach ceremony.
But I'm going to take care of the whole Catholic thing before I even get there!
@ skobies - Assuming you're referring to how I use "blessing" and "convalidation" in my post, there is no difference. Some people just don't know the term "convalidation" so I added blessing as a more universally undertsood term. I meant it less like blessing vs. convalidation and more like blessing, i.e. convalidation. :)
ETA: If you weren't referring to my post, then the above answer is a good explanation. Lol! Sorry, that was confusing.
@miss key lime thats so awesome!! can you give me the priests name maybe I can go see him. Where are you having your beach ceremony? who's your planner? this place is so small I might know her/him. lol Let me know if you want advice about anything here!! I'll be glad to help you out!
Chartrese,
It is not that you are sinners, and people who go to Mass regularly aren't. I go to daily Mass regularly and go to confession bi-weekly and there are times I refrain from receiving the Eucharist because I know I'm not in a state of grace. It takes a bit of growth in humility to recognize how much you need Christ in your life and to accept that He loves you freely not because you deserve it (and thus He owes you something), but because He loves you for your own sake.
Part of going to Mass regularly and going to confession regularly is recognizing your total dependance on God's grace. We don't get to Heaven on our own merit. It is not so much that you are being rejected from God, but that there are other areas of your spiritual life that Christ wants to touch before you're ready to receive the Eucharist again if you've stopped going to Mass regularly or have other mortal sins on your soul.
My future mother in law and father in law had a lot of feelings similiar to you. They had been away from the Church for over a decade, if not more. But they realized at least that my fiance' and I loved them and accepted them as they were. We weren't their stereotypes. I believe they also grew to forgive people's judgmentalism and that you couldn't let one person's sin get in the way of you and Christ. As such, just last week, they announced to us that they had gone to confession after many years. They then received the Eucharist after a long absense and seriously it was like their first holy communion again.
It is not that we don't want you at Mass. Its that we REALLY want you at Mass. And do recognize that judgmentalism is a sin and that we are all sinners. Thus you won't find most people perfect in church. If they judge you, why does their opinion matter? What matters is you and Christ? Believe me, if you show a sudden conversion of heart rather than resentment for the rules, most of the time become become very excited for you.
And if you want to enter a sacramental marriage, I would say come home to the Catholic Church and get married here, at home. Families aren't perfect and people may rub us the wrong way, but don't let a few bad apples motivate you to marry outside of your home which is the Catholic Church. Besides, if you only come home twice a year, do you expect that some of your family may not have trouble dealing with their upset that you're not with us more? Don't take that upset personally. You are totally welcomed in the Catholic Church provided you really want to be here.
Quick, short answer: Convalidation may be the way to go. You want to get married, get married using an officiant that will help solidify your union...then find a more welcoming parish & start attending as often as you can. The Church finds ALL marriages binding, regardless if they were in or outside of the Church, but will only recognized convalidated or Church-based ones.When you find a church you like or come up to the US (if you're from there) to your original parish, you can convalidate your marriage in the Church so that it is recognized.
About the whole harsh-priest-judgment issue (disregard the following if you are not interested in the reasoning behind his actions):
I'm so sorry that the priest rubbed you the wrong way - he, too, sinned in conveying judgment on you. While Catholics believe priests are the guides/teachers, they are also sinners and are subject to moments of un-Christlike behavior.
Like @twoangels said above, the Catholic Church encourages to practice humility...it's one of the hardest things to do to admit that I am wrong or have done something that is less than perfect & that I am willing to try to do what's right. That's confession - the magic is reconciliation or reunion with God & His Church. Once I confessed that, over the span of 10+ years, I had lied, acted in anger, held grudges, judged others, lived in sin with my FI, AND that I recognized that NONE of these acts were Christlike, felt free-er, closer, happier in myself & in my faith. Since then, I've tried (and sometimes failed) to live more right; and when I fail, I know I'm always welcome in the Church. I am welcome to communion again once I've gone through reconciliation again & try, once again to live right. It is when people are unwilling to admit they are wrong, that they aren't perfect that the Church is justified in it's judgment because that person wants the Church & God to accept him/her even tho' he/she disregards God & the Church. (sorry for the whole paragraph on faith, but I just wanted to convey to you what I think the priest was trying to say, in case it might help you come back to the Church).
I can sadly sympathize with your issues. I was raised catholic, school and then years of CCD, but my parents never took me to church. I have known that my FI wants to get married in the church his family attends which his great grandparents helped to build. Knowning this wwe started attending church semi-regularly 2 years ago. I requested envelopes last march, after 5 weeks of consistantly asking about the envelopes I gave up (partially due to the nasty attitude of the ushers) figuring a donation is a donation. When I called the church in October about my January 2011 wedding it didn't go well. First they penciled the date in told me the ceremony had to be before 2pm and told me to come back after easter. This was upsetting in itself but the lecture on how I was a bad catholic because I don't give money to the church that followed almost left me in tears. The priest was downright mean. What got me the most is I attend church more than my FI but he was ok because his parents donate money.
I don't make it to church every week, they have 3 masses 4pm Saterday 9am (in polish) Sunday and 11am Sunday. We have been making a serious effort to get there and niether of us go up for communion because we haven't been to confession. I want to get married in the Catholic church but I'm still having a difficult time getting over the priests attitude. What kills me is that with the number of churches closing in the city I would logically think they would want to attract parishioners not drive them away.
Side note: I spent summer in Paris and when I got back church envelopes for 2011 were waiting for me which is why I didn't go back to get them.
I know exactly where you're coming from. We're not getting married in our home state, and Catholic churches in the town we're getting married wouldn't even return our phone calls. We found one church that would let us rent the church for the ceremony, but informed us we'd have to supply our own priest. Not weekly attendees, and not registered as an adult at the church I was baptized, confirmed and attended school at, I was at a loss as to where to go about obtaining a priest that would be willing the drive the 2 hours out of state to the church that would let us use the space.
I naively thought that if you were a Catholic, you were welcomed at any Catholic church, and the church would be happy to marry a young couple wanting to ultimately raise their children in the faith as well. It all boiled down to money in the end. We'll be paying out the nose for a priest that has no relationship to either of us to drive down to perform the ceremony. He's been the nicest priest we've talked to this entire time, but after everything we've been through, part of me worries that he doesn't do it solely out of the goodness of his heart.
@ Chartreuse... You mentioned...
"But, I just find that they are being so unwelcoming if you haven't been going to their church giving money to them every week."
With all due respect.....Are you sure the motivation behind the Priest "scolding" the Christmas Catholics for the purposes of getting money? I highly doubt that is the motivation behind it all. As a steward and Shepherd of GOD's people, the Priest wants you to be in communion with the rest of GOD's Church. Sure, he may have said it or made it seem a bit forceful, but let's keep in mind that his ultimate goal is to lead the people properly.
Look at a parent Child relationship. The parent always wants what's good for the child, leading them in the right direction, even if it means to reprimand the child. If a child does not pick up his toys, he sometimes gets denied dessert. If the child does not do well in school, his parents make him stay up late until he completes his homework and understands the material. --- But are any of these reasons, bad?
Similar to the priest, he is there to guide us on how we should live, as GOD had taught. Being Catholic, it is required that we attend mass regularly, without fail. If we do not, then we are not abiding by GOD's rules, right? As such, the priest is simply telling the people that in order to receive "communion", we must all be in "Communion" with Christ/His Church. Again, I am sure this has NOTHING to do with money. After all, the priest does not get our $$$, short of a small stipend for the necessities. Everything goes back to maintenance of the Church, paying bills, improvements to the schools, and towards charity.
I hope I was not too rough in my explanation, but I think you deserve to know the truth here.
As for benig married by and Anglican minister, well, since you were baptized and confirmed Catholic, you would not be able to do so, unless you get a "letter of dispensation" granted by your local bishop, which in short, is permission to marry outside the Catholic Church. But I must remind you that marrying outside of the Catholic Church, you will be missing one very, very vital part... and that is the ability to receive Holy Communion, which as you may already know, is seen by our Church as the TRUE body of Christ, not just a symbol of HIS body... but the TRUE BODY (through transubstantiation and/or consecration of the host).
GOD BLESS...
@Chartreuse...I'm a little confused, so please forgive me and also I'm not Catholic....but is it that you would like to return to the Catholic church as an active member and in turn have a catholic ceremony in your then "home church/parish" or do you just want to get married in a Catholic church by a priest?
Wow - that is a nasty priest!! Don't let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch.
I had the exact same issues as you looking for a church. I felt like no one wanted me cause I was parish-less and people were making me feel like poo cause I didn't go to church regularly.
My advice - shh.... go priest hunting haha. I dont think it will take you too long, find a nice understanding priest. I'm sure if you explain your situation, he will help you out. He may ask you to join the Parish, but honestly, if you don't go - it doesnt mean much aside from getting little envelopes in the mail. So, if you dont intend on returning to church on a regular basis - you don't have to. But perhaps after meeting with a new caring priest, who knows? He may change your mind about the whole thing.
You're right - Jesus wouldnt turn ANYONE (anyone!!!!!!) away <- what you know is right. Don't listen to anyone else who tells you different. People LOVE to be self righteous. There is a priest out there who will help you. (also - dont let the rectory ladies scare you off like they did me, just go talk to the priest directly!)
I hate to say it but the term I've always heard for the twice per yr crew was "Convenient Catholic" which pretty much sums it up. God, on the other hand, sacrificed his only son for us.
Also re: the money, "tithing" is common in most religions (and is often tax-deductible!)
I think a lot of Bees are being a little bit too strict. I am a Catholic and I am a modern, free-thinking woman, and of course I don't have time to go to mass every week or confess every week. And yes, I do this despite the fact that God "gave his only son for us." Let's give this bride a break. The church should be far more accommodating and welcoming. And far less judgmental and strict. But seeing as it's an old institution run almost entirely by old men, I don't think we can look forward to much modernization anytime soon. I say find yourself a lovely, welcoming Anglican priest (much like I did) and "risk" that your marriage is not "recognized" in the Catholic church. I wager it will not make a difference in your life. Your relationship with God and your own moral values are what essentially will compose your faith and strengthen your marriage. Best of luck. Enjoy your wedding, and know that marriage is an act of love that is welcomed by God. In any form.
@Walkercme "Your relationship with God and your own moral values are what essentially will compose your faith and strengthen your marriage."
What kind of relationship with God does someone have, if they won't find time to go to church (and spend time with God) for an hour, once a week? I don't think the Church is trying to not be welcoming. But it is trying to keep Catholics on the right path. And "keeping the sabbath" is one of the ten commandments.
You would think, with all the worry about declining members, these priests would be more welcoming, more Christ-like. You never know when you might touch at least one person to return to the Church or convert. Plus, they want the children to be raised in the faith - well if you're not welcoming that's a huge turnoff so why would someone raise their child in a faith that they've had such a bad experience with? I know people on this board are going to disagree with me but a large part of a priest's responsibility is public relations, let alone public service. They expect us to show up faithfully, but they have to work for it too. That is their JOB. They're required to do all they can for their flock & to gather new members. Too often you find men in this position who have no business being there - much like some tenured teachers. The most loved priests have been the ones who have stood true to the teachings and rules, but have shown compassion in all areas as well - even if it means "bending" some "rules". Whatever it takes to follow Christ's path - don't forget Christ didn't follow convention.
I have the same catholic background as you. since doing all the church wedding prep began, they really make you feel like a bad person. just shrug it off and go with the flow. after your wedding day you dont have to deal with them again if you choose not to
I have to say I've never experienced a "nasty priest", for me the discrepancies always seem to come from a higher level via beaurocracy, politics, whatever.
I don't think it is the intention of any priest to make you feel bad, he who is without sin casts the first stone, that is fundamental rule in any Christian religion. Maybe the bad feelings you are getting stem from your own guilt over being away from the church and only coming back when it is convenient for you.
I hope that doesn't sound snarky, I'm just not sure how else to put it. I know there are people out there who fully believe that they can love God and have a relationship with God without going to church (due to politics, personal preferences, or whatever else), and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Where I do have a problem is when these people come back to the church only when it is convenient for them and expect everything to be handed to them. In my opinion, if you do not feel it is important to go to church to worship, than perhaps you should rethink why you want to be married in the church. The two go hand in hand and I think it is unfair to expect one without the other.
As melissa stated, I don't understand why people get so angry and bent out of shape over these things if they don't plan to be a part of the church after the wedding. That is "using" in its basest terms and is probably one of the reasons churches have such stipulations.
You could go with the Anglican, and then do a Convalidation of your marriage after the fact once you are back in the swing of being a "full" Catholic. That is where they recognize your marriage in the church and make it good with Rome. This tends to be a route a lot of "fallen out" Catholics go when they realize they didn't follow procedure with their marriage and want to get back going to church due to whatever life reasons.
If you want to be super Catholic, then you'd need to go the reconcilliation and weekly church route. And you would have to get married at the church in your diocese where your zip code tells you to attend (At least around here I am supposed to do such) or in the church of the female's family.
I agree that finding another curch and priest might be the best way to go. what I can't believe is the judgement in some of thesse posts. As someone who was raised catholic and is trying to find her way back to the church, I am having a hard time recalling where in the bible it says that it is ok to judge others and their relationship with God.
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I don't go to church regularly. But, I was Baptized, got Holy Communion, and Confirmation. I went to all Catholic schools, up to high school. When I was younger, my Grandmother would take us to church walking, but we moved further away from the church, and she got old and couldn't leave the house. My parents are Catholics, but they never went or took us to church. So when I was older, I would sometimes go with my friend and her family to their church. But I never went to any church regularly. A few years ago I went to Christmas mass at the church close to my house, and I left feeling really mad and terrible because the priest pretty much scolded everyone (the once a year christmas church ppl) and said, "if u don't come to church every week, don't come up for communion because you are sinners and u need to go to confession, and you don't deserve to take part in Jesus' body!" So ever since then I have felt like I don't want to belong to that parish. But now that marriage has come up, I am feeling that I do want get married in the Catholic church because that's what I was raised believing in, and I do believe in still. But, I just find that they are being so unwelcoming if you haven't been going to their church giving money to them every week. It's like church is a business. Jesus would never turn people away, and tell them go back to that other church where you were baptized, which obviously I don't attend anymore. As of right now, we are very frustrated trying to find a Catholic priest. But, more than one Anglican priest has offered do it, even if it's not even inside a church. I don't know what we should do, we might just end up getting a JP and that's it. If you get married by an Anglican priest and you are Catholic, what happens?