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Oh man. I don't know what to tell you, but I wish you luck with everything. What a horrible, horrible situation. :(
I would ask for it back, since he is quoting the separating agreement you should too. If he doesn't give it back he owes you the $11000 it was appraised for.
You deserve to have it back and do what you wish with it. Sorry...but what a prick! Please let us know what happens.
I would ask for it back - he is being an ass about the rental deposit so I would be an ass about the ring!
1 or 2 things will happen - you will get the rental deposit back or you will get the ring back which is a bonus as it is worth more!
I am sure you were counting on this money coming back to you and that can be your reason for asking for the ring back because it is within the written agreement!
Totally agree with Future Mrs. Martin. Even if you gave it back, you gave it back in good faith that you would receive the money back from the deposit. If he claims that he is only going by the agreement, tell him from now on, you are too--and you want the ring or the appraised amount of the ring back ASAP, or you will take him back to court for BOTH things. And don't tell him over the phone, or in person--send a certified letter from a lawyer. If he wants to play hardball, play hardball!
I feel like if you try to go after him and get the ring back he'll cave on the deposit money. I'd do that. What a total a** I'm SO happy you found someone that treats you the way you deserve to be treated!
I would say try and get it back...it was agreed that you have the right to it and I think if he is going to be money hungry about every little thing you should at least do the same for this one instance.
What a horrible guy. I'm so glad you have a good relationship with your FI. I'd ask for it back but do you have an recourse if (most likely when) he says you can't have it back? Also, was it insured under your name?
I really hope this all works out better. Its such a shame that he can't realize that acting like that isn't putting his own daughter's best interests in the forefront. I hope karma handles him!
I'm sort of torn on this one and here's why. I agree that you should get the ring, or its value, from your ex and I think that if the situation were financial only, that you should ask to have it back. But, my concern is that in your post you expressed that the argument you had in the bank today reminded you of the type of abuse you suffered while you were married to him. Asking him for the ring will likely lead to the same type of situation. Now, do I think you should roll over and just accept whatever he says because you are afraid of confrontation...ABSOLUTELY not! I just want to be clear on that. That being said, I just want you to consider the emotional toll it could take on you, and perhaps your daughter. If you are willing to deal with it, I say go for it. But I don't want you to sacrifice your emotional well being for it - particularly if you don't need the money.
On another note...he sounds like a total (pardon my french) a$$face, so if you are up to it...go get what's yours!!!
I can't even imagine..im sorry.
I do think he sounds like a jerk..but think is the thing..at this point..it may be better to be done with the situation. if you pursue this you are going to have to continue to have this argument, talk with lawyers, talk to him all for a sum of money that it sounds like you really don't need. I know its the principle.. but the best thing might be to really let it go, let the money go, let that whole situation go and go on and be happy with your new life..sounds like you could be arguing with this guy for one thing or another for the rest of your life.. my advice would be take a loss and don't let him steal any more of your happiness its not worth it
RIbride - and that's exactly why I'm torn on it. I just don't want to have to deal with his crap anymore, and I'm trying to decide if not dealing with it is worth thousands of dollars. FI is fully supportive of whatever I decide to do, and would deal with him for me - but that would just piss ex-husband off even more.
i think you should ask for the ring back. I understand that you don't want to deal with him directly so don't. have a lawyer do the work for you . It will cost you but it'll be a very very small portion of the money you'll recoup from selling the ring. If he offers to give you the deposite money instead of the ring do not accept. insist that you are going by the aggreement and that you want the ring. Also, make sure that the transfer of the ring is to your attorney and not to you. before your attorney hands it over, take it to a jeweler/appraiser to make sure it's the same diamond, (does it have the id number on it?). I wouldn't put it past this sort of guy to switch out the diamond for a much cheaper one. but make sure to do this before you take possession of it so he can't turn around and argue that you switched out the diamond yourself.
geez, i'm so so sorry that this is such a horrible situation. I wish you all the best. stay strong and have courage and know that you have people in your life who support you. ((hugs))
I agree as well - KNOW what you are opening yourself up to before you start it. Maybe ask for it back in a physically non-confrontational way - like a letter. Add a copy of the part of the decree where it states it and ask him to hand it over.
My X is the same manipulative, abusive type. I keep away as much as I possibly can.
get that ring back! you'll probably end up with the $4400, no problem. Ugh, what an asshole! Don't think about it as opening yourself back up to abuse. think about it as kicking him in the shins and getting what is yours. you're out, so just revel in it and don't back down.
Ugh! What a sh*t head. Here's my rub: you GAVE him the ring back. I'm not sure that you can legally take it back from him again. If anyone is a lawyer (I'm definitely NOT), please correct me, but I'm not sure that you would have the law on your side here. Also, what RIBride said - is it worth the hassle?
On the other hand, it might be just enough leverage to get your deposit back, so it might be worth trying. It's just a matter of how much you want to stick it to him. I'd probably try my hardest to screw with him, but I'm a bit of a snark. :)
If you a) don't need the money, and b) can get over it, then I'd recommend letting it go. Maybe request the ring back instead of the deposit, but don't let it get ugly. Although, it's not my situation, so my emotions aren't involved. That always makes it more difficult.
I would talk to your lawyer and if, the law is on yourside, do the certified letter from the lawyer route so you don't need to deal with him. Let the professional handle it and if he tries to go directly to you, don't take his phone calls, etc. Get the ring back, if not because you need it, because it seems it was one of the few things that you got int he settlement.
You should ask for the ring back. You can save if for your daughter to do whatever she wants with it when she becomes older. It's definitely not about the money, but the principles.
Have the lawyer handle it. It's in the paperwork! You have EVERY right. You are entitled to it, or at least the value of it if he's sold it. Just don't do it confrontationally so you can avoid dealing with his verbal abuse. Save it for your daughter, or sell it to someone and go on vacation with your FI and daughter. Screw your ex. Sorry he's such a D-bag.
I second what previous poster's have mentioned about talking to a lawyer first. With the kind of abuse you went through, there's no way you should deal with this by yourself. I went through the same kind of thing, just got out of it a little sooner, and I know that I would never want to see him again. However.. that's a lot of money, some of which you should be entitled to.. so talk to your lawyers and see what they think. I would really go with whatever they advise.
Hugs to you! I have the same kind of x. Almost the exact same. He is/was very abusive at the end of the m and also had continued to be not exactly the best person and wasn't fair at all in the divorce.
But what I've learned now, is that (in the last almost 2 years) he has somewhat backed off since T is in the picture and is a strong and intelligent guy. T has never had any altercation with him, but it's as though my ex had backed down quite alot when T and I were as a united front regarding any pertinent issue.
Since you feel this man is emotionally abusive, I'd like to ask if you're ok with him being around your child with joint custody knowing this b/c at some point it might come out with your little one. Maybe not when they're very little, but when they get a bit older and assert their opinions it can flair up when the ex sees his child isn't doing exactly as he wishes them to do. Please keep a watchful eye on that!
Also since you're tired of dealing with the emotional abuse and mental issues that this man (what a jerk btw) has given you, let your FI give him a call and have him talk to the man. If he will not listen to reason, then let him listen to your lawyer and have the man cough up the ring or the 11 grand your engagement ring cost because it will cover the cost of the implied return on the deposit you kindly gave him.
I wish you all the best and welcome to WB! On the Encore board, we have alot of experience with stuff like this! I hope this resolves quickly and in your favor! But it's also nice to know you can come here to get advice. You're among friends.
I'd also say get it back, but have your attorney do it. Don't give your ex the satisfaction of arguing with you - send him a written letter saying he has 10 days to deliver the ring to your office (or your FI) or you'll be sending your atty after him.
I'm going to second @Rocktsrgn - yes, technically the ring was yours per your separation agreement, but you gave it back. Since you gave it back, I don't know if you still have a legal claim to it (and he may or may not still have it). It could be used for leverage to get back the deposit, but its also a big, ugly mess to get back into.
Calm down and then talk to your lawyer and see what your options are.
I personally would settle this thru the lawyers. If you and he cannot make it thru a bank trip then I would not even go thru the emotional hell of you asking for it back.
Glad you have gotten a new FI! The X sounds like an ass.
I would say talk to your lawyer and if they can get it back, let them deal with him. Otherwise, let it go. It's just not worth it and you have a happy wedding and marriage to plan. You've been through enough! Best of luck and congrats on finding a great guy!
I agree that you should just have lawyers handle it. If he's going to be emotionally abusive and cause you all this stress, then have someone else deal with it. Or maybe send an email asking for it back (I think that's the least confrontational way) and say that if he doesn't give it back then you'll see a lawyer and go to court to have the agreement enforced. If he's going to be an ass about enforcing the agreement, then play hardball. Good luck!
I would get the lawyers involved and try to get it back. Since he is saying the agreement is stone, you should have rights to get it even though you did get it back. I'm so sorry you were with such a horrible guy.
You derseve the ring and the deposit!! But with that being said, I would not ask for it back. Chances are you will get 1. no ring 2. another drawn out argument that isn't worth it.
I went trough a break up where I lost A LOT of money. It was horrible and made me crazy, but after 5 years, I don't think about it anymore. If you are anything like me, it is less about the cash and more about the decency and respect you should be getting. And it sounds like you are not going to get it from your ex.
I would think about what you really want from him. Do you really need or want money from him? Do you want anything to do with him? And what message does it send to your FI when you are wrapped up in fights with your ex. He sounds super understanding and wonderful, but i'm sure he'd rather you just be done with it. Like you said, he doesn't care about the money, he just doesn't want you to get treated that way... so stop putting yourself out there to get beat up by your ex!
I would walk away and look forward to your happy life. The power you will gain from refusing to fight with him will be worth more than any ring.
Wow, so this thread came back to life! I just saw this and realized I hadn't updated you all.
Legally, I'm in a good position to get the ring back because our separation agreement explicitly says that the terms of the agreement can only be modified by an addendum to the agreement, executed with the same formality as the original agreement (i.e., signed and notarized). Clearly, by me verbally agreeing to give him back the ring earlier, that didn't amend the agreement that entitles me to it.
That being said, I'm not going to pursue it at this time. It's just too close to my own wedding to add another dimension of drama to my life, and I really don't want to open up old (closed) wounds now. So that's all the update I have - I really appreciate all of the advice from the bees. I was hopping mad when I wrote that post.
Hell yea, I would take that sucker back, and sell it, to get some money. If the agreement says it's yours, then it's yours. If he doesn't have it or sold it himself, I think he owes you how much it was apprasied for.
Like everyone else has said, get the ring back! If he isnt going to pay rental deposit to u, as it wasnt in the settlement then neither was that ring.
God he sounds like such a jerk, I am so pleased u were able to be strong and leave him. and that u now have someone who appreciates and respects you.
First of all, please understand that this is not in any way, shape or form legal advice, but rather my understanding. If it is in your divorce decree, it's yours. You can tell him you want it back, and if he doesn't give it back or give you money based on its appraised value, you can take him back to domestic relations court and they will enforce it. On the other issues - things that were not decided when your divorce was granted, you would have to go back in front of a Domestic Relations judge for them to be decided and basically the decree would have to be re-written to include them. Keep in mind, this is just how it is in Ohio... D.C. could be different but I don't think it could be THAT different. Just my 2 cents.
Bon Chance,
Bella
He's not going to give you your ring back but I would definatley go to court over the 4400$
Sorry I'm going to loose composure for a moment, what a complete and utter d**k head!!!!
Right composure back and logical head on. I would most defiantly ask for the ring back, and once you have said ring, sell it and use the proceeds to hire a really good lawyer to get your deposit back!
If you didn't have your daughter together, I would have said let it go, but as he's always going to be in your life in some shape or form, you need to nip this bullying behaviour in the bud right now and let him know he's not going to get away with it. Idiot!!!!
Take the power back, because that's what it's all about, not money, power.
@Peyton Just read you're update, I'm so glad you've came to a resoloution. Hope you have a lovely wedding, your new FI sounds very sweet and caring ;-)
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A little background: when my ex-husband and I split up, I just wanted out. He was incredibly emotionally abusive to me (i.e., constant arguments that he wouldn't let me end; he would follow me around the house yelling at me, even so far as to stand at the foot of the bed and not let me sleep or continually knocking on the bathroom door when I'd be in the bathroom crying, calling me all varities of unprintable names...it was bad, and I'm not even doing it justice). So since I wanted out so badly, I made all kinds of concessions in our separation agreement (which is now part of the final divorce decree) that I shouldn't have. (Full disclosure - he and I both made and still make six figures, but I also have six figure student loan debt). He stayed in the house, he got most of the furniture, he got 100% ownership of stocks (which his family had gifted us jointly)...you get the idea. We share custody of our daughter, and I will admit that I've never seen or heard of anything to indicate that he's not a good father. He's great with her (so far).
Fast forward almost two years - I'm remarrying. I had to go to the bank with ex-husband today to sign off on having some of our daughter's stocks transferred to a new bank account. While in the bank, I reminded ex-husband that I had paid the deposit on his rental house in full (he's moving out of the house that we had rented together back in early 2005 soon), and expected the deposit back, or at least half of it. Guess what - shocker - he's not giving it to me. Not a penny - because it was overlooked in the separation agreement. We actually got into an argument in the middle of the lobby of Bank of America (the one right next to the White House in downtown DC!) Our voices weren't that raised, but it was pretty awful, and I kept asking him to walk away (I was filling out deposit slips for my own checking account and he was done at the bank). My ex was threatening me financially (saying that he should get "credit" towards his child support amount for the fact that his parents offered to pay for our daughter's ballet lessons, etc.) - and the way he was speaking to me was so reminiscent of the abuse I dealt with for years that I started crying.
I went back and called FI, told him that I wouldn't get the deposit back (it was $4400!) and FI is furious with ex for the way he treated me (he could pretty much care less about the money).
Here's where I need advice. The separation agreement also says that I got to keep my engagement ring, but I ended up giving it back to ex after I started dating FI. It just didn't feel right for me to keep it. Now I want it back! I'm legally entitled to it under the agreement, and I want to sell it to recoup at least some of the money that I won't get back from the deposit. Ex paid about $9000 for it, it's appraised for about $11000.
Would you let it go - or ask for it back? I'm torn, and I'm not thinking completely rationally because I'm so upset about the situation. I truly despise that man.