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Hi Bees - there's this woman I work with who recently met a guy. She seems to really like him. She said that he told her that if a woman he was dating didn't make a certain amount of money, he would leave her. I kept my mouth shut, but was thinking how callous this sounded.
I asked my husband what he thought about this, and he agreed with the guy! He said, "It's not the 1950's anymore. The amount of money a woman makes is important." This bothers me since there was a time when I didn't make very much money at all while I was working in retail. I met him when I was working in my current job, making an ok amount of money. What bothers me is that he would have most likely ended the relationship if we had started dating during my stint in retail.
I understand money is important, as without it, you essentially cannot survive. But I feel as if it is harsh to dump someone if they don't make a specified amount of money.
Any thoughts/comments on this?
It totally depends on what you mean by make enough money. I mean I would never leave my FH if he didn't make a certain amount. However, if it was he just stopped working, and hung out all day playing video games just because he wanted to be lazy and a mooch, that is a completely different story.
I agree with your viewpoint. If a person just quits a job to sit around all day, then that is one thing. But if you did your best to find a good job and what you currently have isn't paying enough, there is not much else you can do but to keep looking.
I agree with divergirl. As long as my husband is trying to contribute to the family, it doesn't really matter what he makes as long as we are both employed but if he sat around all day doing nothing, would put a ton of stress on the relationship.
@SM1982: Yes that is what I meant, even if you're not working there are ways to contribute to the household. For example, having a stay at home parent, FH and i have talked about either of us being in either role (working or not). There's a difference when there is one person blatenly abusing or taking advantage of the other and not being an equal or contributing at all.
I make about half what my BF does, but I wouldn't leave him if he made less. We would just have to adjust how we live. I know that I couldn't support us both, but then we would turn to our parents for help.
Eventually I would leave someone who was not proactive in finding work. It would get too stressful.
I have no specific dollar amount in mind, but if my guy wasn't making a competitive salary I would be upset. I put in 100% at any job I do and I fully expect the same of my partner. If they were just scraping by with the minimum at their job and making a base salary years after entering the field we would have to have a serious talk.
However the boy makes zero money at the moment because his job is to work on his baseball career. Its starting to get old..
I agree. FI and I each make very little money per year. We NEED each others' incomes, so if one of us did not work, we would be in serious trouble. So, in that sense, no he doesn't need to make a ton of money, but we both have to work.
I think it is more about plan than balance sheet. If my FI decided that his life's passion was pursuing a career in something making less money than he is now and we'd be okay on that lower salary, that is fine. Simply not working/having no motivation = not okay. He feels the same. He wouldn't be okay with a stay at home wife because he thinks that we should be partners in contributing financially to the marriage (and I agree... could never be a stay at home mom... wayyyy to impatient). That being said, I'm a lawyer right now and I made almost double what he did last year. But he is fully supportive of my transitioning to a lower paying job I"ll like better even if that means cutting my salary drastically (once again... so long as it wouldn't put us in a bad place financially)
Definitely not. I met my husband while he was in school, and completely dirt poor. I was making good money (for a beginner graphic designer) and supported him through graduation. Now he's out and makes over twice my salary! So yeah, I don't think I'd ever put a requirement on income as you never know what will happen. I think he may have been generalizing a bit, equating income with financial independence. I never want to rely solely on my husband, and if there's ever a time I need to (say, with newborn children) I'd like to provide for the family through housekeeping and raising children. That's a lotta work too!
I'm definitely going to make significantly more than my darling FI. I would never leave him because of that, though! I do expect him to contribute, and if he was laid off or lost his job, I would expect him to find a new one as soon as possible. It's one thing to not be in a high-paying career, and another to be lazy. I wouldn't leave him over it, though, unless it got to be a serious issue and we had children to feed or something!
I agree with all your responses.
I am in the process of trying to get approval to work from home a few days a week. I asked a long time ago and got a "no". I am going to try again...
The good thing with this is I can live with my DH and only drive to the office two days a week keeping my current salary. It is extremely difficult to find a job in his area. And any jobs that are available pay much less than what I am making now. Unfortunately my boss keeps canceling our meeting and has yet to reschedule with me...
So basically I am grateful that I have a job, as there are many unemployed people. I just hope that something works out soon so I can live with my DH!
He makes a very good salary for his career and his job is very stable, so him moving to my area is out of the question. Many people have asked me if this was an option.
I agree with the other ladies who say that equal contribution in a relationship is important, whether it's monetary or not.
Having said that, my partner doesn't make very much money at her current job, but there is a lot of opportunity for growth and she's currently working towards licensure in her field. While she may not earn as much as some people, she's doing what she really loves and not only that, but she's really making a difference. Unfortunately, those types of jobs don't tend to pay well. Would I ever tell her that she didn't make enough money or leave her because of it? Absolutely no way, no how.
I'm not sure if it's callous--it's probably callous in the way it was stated, but I wonder if what they're communicating is not specifically that a woman makes a huge sum of money (although I actually think it's okay to demand that if you are being honest and you want a specific lifestyle for yourselves and your family), but rather that she have aspiration and passion.
No, I don't think it's right to denigrate housewives and it's shallow to expect a specific dollar amount, but come on--no one wants someone who just hangs around. I think perhaps what the guy might be saying (or at least how I choose to interpret it( is more that a paycheck reflects a person is functional and understands the value of work. I don't think that a high salary needs to be a requirement in being passionate and hard-working--I'm a teacher, FI's a teacher, my sister is a public defender, and we can all attest to that!--but perhaps what they mean is simply they want a woman who's got some type of career.
I wouldn't say that I have a set dollar amount but I don't want to date someone that doesn't make enough money to support himself....unless there are valid reasons for it. The way I see it...and the way my FI sees it, is that if he can support himself and I can support myself...then we should be golden when we get married. I am 34 and he is 42 so we aren't exactly new to the career world so it would be weird to try and date someone my age that couldn't afford to support themselves. My FI prefers that I be a stay at home mom but we compromised and decided on the 1st year for each child. I can't imagine being dependent on FI financially forever...probably b/c I have been on my own for so long. Who knows...once I get married and settled in, I may enjoy not working =)
Well I went from a really good paying job to no job,because I was becoming miserable and hubs said that I could leave, I am 100 x happier but feel guilty because Ive been unemployed for all of three weeks? and hoping this will change soon. I havent been slack tho (enrolled myself in a course) and actively applying for jobs. I could see how this could be getting old annoying after about 3 months but there is no way hubs would leave. I asked and we made a joint decision which he supports me on. I dont see him going back on it but if it lasted a year and I was being lazy as all hell.. well then yes I think financial insecurity can administer a blow to a marriage or a healthy relationship. Its a fine balance!
@divergirl: I agree!
I hope what these guys are saying (with a lack of tact) is that they hope they will have a spouse who contributes to the solvency of the relationship and who isn't a financial mooch.
And of course there is a difference in taking some time off for an extraordinary reason (illness, family emergency, new baby, etc) than just choosing year after year to not work for earned income. I think most reasonable adults would understand that and adjust their attitudes accordingly.
That's awesome that your husband is so supportive. My DH said that if he could afford it (his bills AND mine) he would tell me to quit my current job if I wanted and just live with him while I look for another. Unfortunately we need two salaries with all my student loan debt!
Money wouldn't ever be the issue, but I wouldn't date anyone that wasn't ambitious (not moneywise, but having personal and career goals). And I certainly wouldn't be getting married to someone who couldn't hold down a job that was either in the career field they wanted or a good way to get there.
HAving money defiantly makes things less stressful but i don't think leaving someone because of their money is a good reason. I think what happens a lot with people is that the core issue of not having money causes fights and other issues between the couple and they drift apart.
IT is also hard for people who are used to a certain lifestyle. I never had a budget until i moved away from home. It was a bit on an adjustment to start budgeting and not be able to go shopping all the time. But it was good for me and helped me grow up and understand the value of a dollar. And my parents still help me out so i don't know how in the world i would survive with out them. Even with all my spoiled-ness being stated- I think it is a little closed minded to say (wether it is coming from a man or a woman) that you will not be with someone because they don't make X amount of money.
@SM1982: well we were able to look at it objectively, I had to ask tho... it was a massive decision but we figured at this point in my life it was a natural time in life for change. Im really glad I have a supportive husband and well enough in savings for this to be ok for a few months. I give it 2 more months before I start getting desperate and taking whatever job that comes up (waitressing or something, cleaner) but we will see! its such a big risk!
This hits home for me right now because I am in the process of losing my job (next year). I was discussing matters with my FI and it turns out he is dead-set against taking unemployment insurance, to the point that it is a deal-breaker for him. I'm so surprised about this, I guess it never came up before because our jobs were very secure in the past... his idea is that since we don't have a family or any obligations besides car payments, young people like us should take 2 or 3 menial jobs while we keep looking for one nice one, instead of living off a hand-out (which is what he considered unemployment money to be)...
I feel differently, I feel that unemployment is insurance that companies pay for. It's not easy to get , it doesn't replace your salary and it means the difference between having a home and living on the street for some people.
Needless to say I started to freak out a bit, that if I don't find a job by 2011, our relationship will be messed up or something. When he saw how upset I was he calmed me down and explained that all that is important to him is that I'm looking and willing to work hard at any job I can get.
He doesn't like laziness and he just wants to see that I am "Pioneer Woman" as he calls it, that I can face difficult circumstances and find a way to survive without getting a hand up...I guess he thinks I am already Pioneer Woman and that is what attracted him to me in the first place... I don't feel like such a strong survivor when I'm going through this scary process of losing a job!
We do plan for one of us to eventually be zero income, because we hope to have a family and parenting is not a part-time job. It will probably be me because I make less than he does. I would never leave a relationship because the guy "didn't make enough money" but I probably wouldn't get into in a relationship in the first place with somebody who had no ambition at all.
Well, considering I'm unemployed, I'd have to say no. My hubby encouraged me to quit my job for health reasons. He said we'd be fine with money, and we are. If something happened where I was working a good job and he wasn't, I'd be fine with it. I don't love him for his money.
I think intentions for the most part matter more than actual results. AS long as the person I was with shared the same goals and tried his best to contribute, I would be satisfied. But I'm not really one to talk since I met my DH at our first jobs, so we were making the exact same salary doing the same job, and it's pretty much the same now as we've climbed up the ladder at the same pace.
If I were still single at my age, I could definitely see myself turning down a date from someone who didn't make at least a sufficient income. Especially if he was my same age. I'd be bothered by the fact that he probably didnt' put enough effort into his career and if he had gone to get another degree, at this point it would have proven to be a waste given the small salary. It may be a little unromantic, but it's sort of being realistic when you're thinking about your future.
I think the term "enough money" is a weird one.. it's all relative to where you live, how you spend, how you contribute, etc. I have and always will make less than my FI, because my career choice just doesn't pay the same way his does. That being said, he has always been supportive of me, even when I was working in the food industry and made barely enough to get by. I understand that the work force nowadays is completely different than it used to be and women are pretty much equal to men in terms of jobs and pay, but I still think it's kind of harsh to break up with someone because of a low salary (esp. if it's out of their control).
I agree with @moderndaisy.
At the moment, I make way more than FI. He is in a lucrative career, but is down toward the bottom. In a few years, he will average more than 4-5 times my salary. I figure it all balances out. We share responsibilities, so as long as we are both contributing and we are happy, it doesn't matter too much to me who is making what.
I make about twice as much as my FI, but he loves what he does and is happy where he works, which is the most important thing. I could support us alone if necessary, but I'd really rather not. Being a stay at home mom won't be an option for me, as we can't survive on his salary alone, so if he chose to do that for awhile it would be fine, too. I don't believe in double standards when it comes to that.
As long as he's an equal contributing member of the household, we're fine.
I agree with what ModernDaisy said.
Also, I think it matters where you are in your life. Money would be (and was) less important to me when I was in my early 20’s, because I was still in college, or just getting my first real job. I didn’t really care how much my boyfriends made, as long as it seemed enough for them to get by.
Now that I’m almost 30, money is more important. Home ownership, retirement, kids, college funds, nest eggs, etc. all require money, and are all things I want for my life.
If I was single now, as a rule I probably would not date men who made significantly less money than I did, unless there was a really good reason for it. But more important to dollar figures would be education, drive and motivation. If he was 30 but was in medical/law school or some other professional school (and so had very little income at the moment, but is moving forward) that would be ok, but if he was 30 and worked a minimum wage job and didn’t want anything else – honestly, that wouldn’t be ok with me.
Would I leave my fiance if he lost his job or remained at the same salary he's making now for the rest of his life? No way.
Would I have dated him in the first place if he didn't make a reasonably good salary? Probably not - but as PP have stated, it's all about what you consider a "reasonably good salary." People tend to marry within their economic background, and I think it's for good reason - you're just coming from the same general expectations and experiences about money.
I was raised in an upper-middle class family and my mom stayed home with us growing up, so I feel like it would be borrowing trouble to date someone who wasn't going to have a good salary. Nothing extravagent, just my version of good. It would simply create unnecessary conflicts. I'd like to stay home when we have kids, go on nice vacations, have nice cars. I work full-time now and put a lot into savings for these things, but I have no problem admitting that I want to stay home eventually. And do I feel like I won't be an equal, contributing partner to the relationship? Not at all.
It isn't the 1950s anymore, but we also haven't reached a point in time where there is total equality in the workplace - women still make a lot less than men working the same job and still hit the proverbial glass ceiling more often than not. So it's disingenuous of him to pretend that gender roles don't still exist in our society, because like it or not, they do.
Not cool. I would not be okay with that.
The Guy and I are both in good fields and make good incomes, but my contract ended recently and I wasn't able to line anything else up in time (there are a very limited number of positions in my field in our city) so I am currently unemployed. I have never been unemployed before, and it's not a position I ever thought I would find myself in. I'm working on quite a few opportunities and have had interviews, so the hope is that it will be short lived, but while I am in this situtation The Guy is supporting me. I have a very hard time with it, but he is totally, 100% fine with it and happy to help.
So, if I were to be with someone who required me to make a certain amount of money I would be freaked out, because bad things happen and sometimes you need to lean on your SO for help (I would do the same thing for The Guy if he ever needed it) and your SO should be okay with that and not resentful.
It's that whole "for richer and for poorer" thing!
On one hand- I wonder how this discussion would go on the flip side.
However, in this economy- it's not realistic to expect anyone to make bank. My SO moved out to the midwest- and then the economy tanked. He got a job at a new hotel- and then that tanked. He is making waaaay less than when we first started dating- but what really matters is that both of us are working towards a future together.
I have a buddy who got dumped by his girlfriend because he was laid off twice in the engineering sector, where he probably made a decent salary. The killer part of this- she doesn't even make that much- she is probably at poverty level herself as a part-time preschool teacher who still lives with her parents. You can't possibly expect someone to reach expectation that you yourself can't reach, no matter what gender.
I would think that as long as my SO/husband were working and trying his best to contribute to the wellbeing of the household, I wouldn't leave him.
Now, if that same man refused to work and be a productive member of our household, that would be different.
My FI is going to be a music teacher/band director. And everyone knows that teachers aren't paid anywhere near what they deserve. But that would never make me leave him for not making "enough" money.
I have a rule, it doesn't matter how much money you make, as long as you live within your means.
That's how I justify having a job I love that doesn't pay much. I am very frugal, keep a budget, and manage to save a little every month.
As for my DH, he really likes nice watches and more expensive clothes, but he makes a lot more money than I do and works really hard for it. If he made less, I would expect him to cut back.
We split the household bills 50/50 and have a joint savings, so whatever he does with his leftover money is up to him.
As long as he can support his lifestyle and I can support mine, I'm all for it.
@sulaii211: I think the perception is usually that it's OK if the woman makes less...or doesn't contribute. I don't agree with that though. My only stipulation is that a person be able to support themselves. Honestly, there is no appeal to me for a guy my age to not have his finances somewhat together. It doesn't mean he has to be rolling in the dough b/c the economy is rough right now. But he should definitely have some sort of plan in place or something.
I'm a stay at home mom.. I'm sure glad my husband doesn't dump me! I may not contribute money, but I make sure everyone is fed, clothed and taken care of in general.
Of course, when he met me I was making $40,000 a year and finishing up my degree.. I know for a fact that he found my drive sexy. Buuuuut I had to give up my career to follow him in the military so he knows he better not say a dang thing about not finding a job since he moved me to the worst job market in the country! lol
I agree with the other bees that think perhaps his comment was about motivation. I think a woman should be motivated enought to pursue her own career.
I know a couple of people who went to college got a degree and continue to be bartenders at the same places they worked in school. I think if a women is working in a job below her skill because it's all she can find then that's totally fine, but if she's working someplace because it's easy and just waiting for some guy to come rescue her...not cool.
My husband always talks about about a friend of his who's wife has a degree (in a very lucrative field) and she just up and quit and never did anything with it once they got married. I know it makes him crazy because it's not like she CAN'T work, she just doesn't.
I think it depends on if/how you want to raise your children, too. It is important to me to be able to stay at home when we have children and if my husband wasn't able to or actively trying to make enough money for that to be possible, I would take issue with that. Of course, we discussed all that long before we were even engaged so I guess the relationship wouldn't have progressed to marriage if we didn't have the same values and goals/wants.
@JamaicaBride: I too don't agree with that perception- but at the same time- people in this country are losing their jobs left and right, especially if you're in a compromised industry. It's pure math- there are only so many jobs out there, and not everyone is going to get hired. I feel that it is up to your SO to support you through the rough times- not threaten. How can you make a relationship stronger if you don't even weather the storm?
Also- maybe this guy was talking about the women he dated. At the dating stage- I think anything is fair game. If you're too picky about finances and let Mr./Miss Right go- then that's the loss you're willing to take.
On another note:
I often think of this couple that got married waaaaay before they were financially stable, (both had no official jobs, and went into debt for the wedding...) and a year later- she still doesn't have a stable income. On one hand- they live paycheck to paycheck and he seems supportive. On the other hand.... I wonder if he resents her/ their timing. On the other other hand- if they waited until they were "ready" or "a certain amount of money" they still wouldn't be married- which is something I know both of them wouldn't want. At the end of the day- they are a team.
@sulaii211: True...but at the same time...I think it depends on where you are at in the relationship. Would you have the same view of the situation if the couple were just dating (as in the OP), versus being engaged or married? Should a husband, wife, or fiance be supportive of their SO even if their finances take a turn for the worse...absolutely. This is the situation that most of the posters were commenting based on....being in a committed relationship where they are either married, or working toward marriage. What the OP was talking about in her example was dating....which I think changes the situation, especially if I am not thinking about having a future with that person. Am I willing to financially support someone who I am just dating? Absolutely not.
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