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Thanks for posting the blogger link. I still can't believe people voted for Prop 8. You're right. Several conservatives have even come out w/ arguments against Prop 8. The arguments in favor are extremely weak, in my opinion.
Hey, I was just reading an article about the Prop 8 trials yesterday! Here's the link:
Basically the article was talking about how this trial will likely be appealed to the Supreme Court no matter the outcome of the CA trial. The article also explains that many believe this will be the trial that finally takes a definitivie stand on whether banning gay marriage is constitutional. Of course, that means the Prop 8 trial will take years to conclude, but I think it's going to be very interesting to follow!
I agree 100% that they have very little legal basis as an argument for same sex marriage. I argued in circles with my dad on this one. He kept picking up scriptures and opening them. I was like "No scriptures, give me a purely legality based argument" and he just sat there. He then came back at me with "Legality is not as important as what god wants..." <sigh>
cbott - Your Dad and my inlaws, both... Drives my FI up a wall and around the bend.
Holy cow, that is an amazing blog... the transcripts of the testimony are riveting!
My parents are VERY conservative. They actually don't like my husband or I to be around any of my younger siblings without supervision because of our beliefs/ideals. We are agnostic, and although we never talk to the kids about it, they think we will try and "turn them away". I was raised VERY thoroughly in the LDS faith, and when we left it became a huge issue.
The worst part is that my younger siblings are growing up thinking that athiests, homosexuals, feminists, democrats (yes, they are all thrown into the same category) are morally corrupt. Hopefully when they are older they will be able to make their minds up for themselves.
I agree, that blog is amazing! Thanks for sharing that link!
I know I am following it! Good to have a place to chat about the trial, being as this is another aspect of weddings: the equality to have one!
I've been following and doing a little bit of background research. I was very intrigued that Ted Olson was the lawyer that represented the Bush administration in Bush V. Gore and his co-counsel was the rep for Gore.
It turns out that up until the mid 90's gay marriage was considered a "conservative"/libertarian issue. (I hate pigeon holing things as conservative or liberal) The thinking was that marriage would be a better option than multiple relationships and therefore many conservatives and libertarians at that time supported marriage for gays.
Blogger Andrew Sullivan, who was at one time considered quite conservative wrote an article advocating gay marriage back in 1996. Most gay rights advocates at the time strongly disagreed with him!
Divorce rates have dropped in areas where gay marriage is allowed and spiked in areas where gay marriage has been outlawed.
@cbott: Hahaha, feminists? That's a new expansion to the morally bankrupt club. So random. Or maybe not. I'm from Los Angeles/NYC, so I rarely encounter neo-conservatives. I've heard the ole' morally bankrupt line before being a Democrat meself, but have yet to get a "you are going to hell" line when people find out I'm a feminist. Yeah, Democrat women tend to be feminists, but it still cracks me up that they are singled out by your family specifically.
Oh, and for the topic at hand, yes, I've been following it closely! My sibling is gay, so this issue is very close to me. Whether I had a gay sibling or not, I'd still be apart of Courage Campaign, and I encourage all of you to join.
Nah, I generally don't follow current events... I realize that makes me sound... I don't know, calloused, but alot of it is SO depressing that it just hurts.
I'm following right now and wanted to bump the thread. There is a woman in the Asian American community who is married to a woman and is on the stand right now. I highly recommend reading her testimony.
It's heartbreaking. The more I read, the more frustrated I become, and the more I question how anyone can argue against that.
Thanks for the link to the blog! I've been following NCL's tweets about the trial after Two Chicks Nest mentioned it. Her blog is also great - she's been recapping points made against Prop 8.
Can I just say, I am an academic historian and SO EXCITED that several of the expert witnesses so far have been (very prominent) historians! My profession is representing! People think of history as unrelated to current politics, and it's absolutely not true.
@ historienne
Awesome point! That has been fascinating, and it is a crucial part of making the case.
Also, are you getting married in Mendocino? Me too, if you are! Don't know how far off you are, but PM me any time if you want to chat about vendors, etc.
The Mayor of SD is testifying today. His daughter is a lesbian and both of them were very vocal in the No on 8 campaign...interested to see what he has to say.
umm...just click on prop8trialtracker link and was denied by my school district web blocker - says "categorized as adult lifestyles". I submitted it for review for unblocking. C'mon!
The blog is definitely enlightening. I hate the fact that they blocked our ability to watch the video. Something HAS to happen because there's a small minority in California who managed to get married during the window and their marriages are still valid. My manager married her partner during the window, but some of my friends weren't ready for marriage yet so their engagements don't mean as much. There has to be some illegality in that.
I feel a little guilty that I can get married so easily, but my friends and relatives that are gay don't have that option.
Thanks for the blog! I'm following it as part of my ConLaw class requirement. Fabulous blog!
I haven't, but when the Iowa Supreme court heard the issue I followed that (guess where I live). I should follow that too I suppose!
How did I only now discover this board?? Prop 8 Trial Tracker rocks and is an especially valuable resource since they decided NOT TO TELEVISE the trial. Grrrrrr. I'm definitely following and I'll be checking back in to chat with you historians/law-loving ladies! :)
Night!
Last day of the trial was yesterday. Any thoughts? As an attorney, but not a Constitutional expert by any means, I was pretty pleased with the record they created. I am starting to think the Supreme Court ruling on this issue will not be all bad.
I'm worried about it going to the US Supreme Court (to which it will surely be appealed), as last week's ruling on corporate personhood hinted that an issue like this may not get a fair shake. We'll see, I guess. It really has been fascinating to follow.
Yeah, I've always expected the absolute worse from the Supreme Court (or SCOTUS to us law nerds). I feel like they built such a good record, it will be hard to not throw us a bone, as a court of review, such as SCOTUS, must rely on the record from trial court.
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A live blogger is following the proceedings:
http://prop8trialtracker.com/
It's riveting! I learned a lot about the history and studies on marriage and homosexuality.
It's quite surprising as well, how weak the arguments of the proponents of Prop 8 are; especially in a legal context. Any comments?