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The reason I ask is because my friend also got engaged but was after he was given an ultimatum. I guess after a couple years be engaged or break up! I'm happy for her. Just seemed forced. Is this common?
While it wouldn't be something I would choose to do, I think their engagement is definitely genuine. Unless she was holding a gun to his head, haha! :-)
If it were me, I would always wonder if he only proposed because I forced him to, so it wouldn't be for me. But some guys just need a kick in the pants, I guess!
I am never a fan of ultimatum for ANY reason in a relationship. It is an act of control, IMO.
when I was waiting I had very little patients and would always joke around about a deadline etc. but we both knew I would never really leave.
@SamanthaLovesJames: Yeah I couldn't do it... just because I would wonder if he really wanted it. But I'm sure it's genuine... just maybe sooner than the FI would have done!
@tksjewelry: I agree.
I am 100% against ultimatiums, no matter how they are presented. not a good way to begin any type of relationship. I feel that you will always have that hanging over your heads (or at least for a good long time).
I think it really depends on the circumstances. Some guys are content to sit in the in-betweens, happily reassuring their SO's without actually having to do anything. They're self-centered (or maybe just confused themselves) and don't mind their SO's living in this weird, awful contradiction of words and actions.
Certainly ultimatums can be bad if he's genuine but simply not ready. Other times ultimatums can help someone see they're being strung along. It really depends.
I doubt any of us can ever know if it's genuine, just as it really doesn't matter what we think about their relationship.
That is definitely not genuine. If he wasn't ready to propose and make a strong commitment, I don't know how well they are going to do. Seems like it may just create some problems for them.
So I actually think ultimatums work.... My DH and I are super, super happy and in love. We aren't controlling at all. But I felt after so many years of dating that it was time to move on and if we weren't, then things should change.
I don't believe you can waste your whole life on someone that's not going to propose. And some guys need more of a push than others.
He did tell me that he was 100% happy with his decision to propose, getting married and was glad that I pushed to be engaged. Otherwise, we might not have gotten engaged (he just didn't know I wanted to get married!)
I understand where she was coming from, but I would prefer that an engagement came after conversations, not threats. However, I'm not against all ultimatums - I think they can be phrased as "hey, heads up, this isn't working, let's make it work or else I'm out of here." I don't see the problem with being honest about wanting to pack up and leave - what else are you supposed to do, blindside the guy?
oh and I guess I should add, that I didn't really give him an ultimatum... I just said "I want to be engaged by this date, it's important to me to know you want to move forward with me and if it doesn't happen, we're going to talk about our future."
I did give him a date (that was 6 months away!) but it wasn't really an ultimatum.
Meh, I don't know the entire circumstances, how he was feeling, the discussions that had been made, so I can't say if it is genuine or not.
Do you find that people are genuinely happy knowing that it was an ultimatum that made the decision?
Unfortunately, no, I don't think its as genuine as a proposal without an ultimatum.
If she was in that much of a hurry - she should have proposed to him.
That, at least in my opinion, is a very genuine way of handling a guy who needs a nudge, without actually backing him in to a corner. If I got engaged because of an ultimatum, I would always wonder if he REALLY wanted to be married to me - or just wasn't quite sure he didn't want to be...
I believe in being honest with your SO about what you want but not in ultimatums. If waiting a long time is a deal breaker for a women she should let her SO know, once, but then it is up to him. I don't believe in applying pressure.
If your friend gave an ultimatum like, if you don't propose by said date then I'll leave, then I think it depends. If she was really going to leave then it's not really an ultimatum IMO. It's more like hey I'm done waiting and need to move forward with my life. That said, if she was really ready to end it then she may not really be committed to him like she thinks...Either way...it's bad. On his end I'm sure it's genuine. It might just come back to bite em in the tush.
@PinkMagnolia: I did the exact same thing. We had been living together for two years. Friends of ours who met while we were still dating, dated, got engaged, and then married in that timeframe. I wanted him to really evaluate where we were going and if it was worth it for me to stay in the relationship. He said that he knew all along that we would marry, but wasn't ready. I gave him a bit of a push. He got a new job, saved up for the ring, and then proposed. I was afraid of being one of those inert couples who lived together but never really progressed with life. Also, he wanted to buy real estate together. I told him point blank that I wouldn't unless we were engaged since we'd seen the negatives from owning property together without a committment. My husband needed a bit of push to get the ball rolling. A push is fine and worked for us.
@carrieknitscake A push! That's a good word for it! I'm sooo happy I gave him the push... We're just thrilled to be married. I think if I had to wait years and years and years it would have taken the joy out of the proposal anyways. A push was the best alternative.
I would personally say no it isn't geniune if either party has to be forced to further the relationship- it's only geniune if they further the relationship of their own accord and because they want to.
One of DH's ex-girlfriends (she's still in constant contact with his best friend) decided after we got engaged that her boyfriend of less than a year had to propose. She informed him in November that if he didn't propose (and with a ring of no less than 1.5 carats!!!) then she was gone. Poor guy is even being told what DAY he has to propose to her on, and what he has to say. Needless to say DH had a good chuckle/shudder at that news and come out with the fact that she tried to do the same thing with him but he didn't cave because he knew he didn't want to marry her.
So, Mr. and Mrs. McB's final word on forced engagements- bad idea. I hope your friend defies the odds!
hmmm... I think it depends.
I wouldn't want to give my guy an ultimatum for a proposal (though I often say I have a "timeline"... that I wouldn't actually enforce)
however, I do think some guys need a little "push" once and a while...
@PinkMagnolia: I think some bees consider what you did more like a timeline, including adult, mature conversations.
when I think ultimatum, I think: "you better propose or I will dump you". any man or woman I know would run far, far away from that!
@mandypop: If she was in that much of a hurry - she should have proposed to him.
that's a good point! I wish I heard more stories about women proposing to men!
I think more details are needed....
also it's a lot about how a conversation is taken by the SO. If they felt pressured it's bad, but if they felt like it was a "getting on the same page" conversation then it could be good
I honestly think ultimatums are more appropriate with inteventions, alcoholics, etc. not positive things like getting married. At one point, I said now my (now) FI that i wanted to get married and would not wait around forever but it was absent of threats or timelines, etc. Just wanted him to understand my goals and hopes for the future.
I threatened to leave if my DH didn't propose by a certain timeframe. It was unfortunate that things had to come to that, but I had already started to distance myself emotionally because I was so hurt that not only were we living together and not engaged, but he was still dragging his feet on deciding for sure if marriage is what he wanted. The pain it caused me made me start to want out of our relationship, I just couldn't go on anymore in limbo and I felt like he was disrespecting me by staying with me with no plans of a proposal when that is what I wanted more than anything. And of course, I meant it 100%, it was not a bluff on my part.
And if you're thinking "Well then why did you move in with him if you weren't engaged yet?" The answer to that is we had originally agreed that a proposal would happen 'within a few months' of the move, which made me comfortable with it. Those 'few months' came and went with literally no talk of the future or an engagement, so my 'ultimatum' came when I finally confronted him about it and discovered he still wasn't sure.
For us it worked out in the end and we lovingly joke about it now. And DH goes around 'preaching' to all of his unmarried guy friends about the importance of getting engaged, it's cute. Looking back I'm really glad I stuck up for myself and didn't passively accept a situation that made me extremely unhappy. DH thanks me for being assertive about it, he definitely needed a little more than a small push in order to get moving.
I feel (and remember this is my personal feelings) that using ultimatums or timelines for an engagement causes failed marriages. I feel like it puts pressure on men (or in some circumstances the woman) to rush into something that they might not be ready for. Maybe for someone it might give them that little extra push, but I feel like both man and woman should be excited, happy, and ready to be getting married and spending their lives together.
I’m not saying you should “waste” your time waiting on a guy either (most of us can feel it in our gut if it’s right or not whether or not we want to admit it is a different story) but if you have a great thing, whether you’re married or not, it’s still going to be great. I was in a LDR with my husband for a little over 5 years (maybe seeing him a few weeks out of the year) before he proposed and honestly, after getting married nothing feels different between me and my husband. We deeply loved each other before we were married and deeply love each other now that we’re married and because of the love we have for each other, we’re willing to wait just for the chance to be together. Think Pirates of the Caribbean: At Worlds End, 10 years at sea 1 day on land; it’s worth it for the one you love. And without timelines or ultimatums, when you finally get that long awaited proposal, you’ll know it’s because he truly wants to spend his life with you and only you.
Disclaimer: These are my personal feelings towards the topic. You do not have to agree.
Mine wasn't a total ultimatum...just a guided timeline I guess. He was actually glad I gave him that timeline because he was dragging and being complacent until he kind of woke up and actually started thinking about the future and marrying me.
I think it depends. If the guy truly isn’t ready, but his GF gives him an ultimatum and he responds by proposing just because he doesn’t want her to leave, I don’t think that’s good. But I think there are other situations where the guy really is sure he wants to get married, and is ready, but for whatever reason is dragging his feet, and in that case I think if the GF needs to say, “I’m only going to wait for you for X time longer,” it can be what’s needed and work out fine. But of course, you have to be willing to back that up – if you say you can’t wait past X date, you have to mean you can’t and won’t wait past that date.
I don't think ultimatums are a good way to start a marriage. I would just have a length of time I was willing to wait, make it clear that my goal is marriage, and leave if the relationship wasn't progressing. DH was ready to be married after a year and a half and I wasn't... if he would have given me an ultimatum I probably would have said yes and been miserable but I ended up leaving because we wanted different things. We tried to be apart for a few months but in that time I realized I did want to be with him and be married to him, and now we're married :) I don't think anyone should be forced into anything, they'll come around on their own, and if the other partner doesn't want to wait then they shouldn't.
Not genuine. I would not want to live my whole life wondering if my husband was only with me because I forced him into it! I wouldn't want to marry someone who I had to force into it.
I don't feel like I gave him an ultimatum, but I know it was faster than he anticipated. But if you ask him today, he will tell you, he's the happiest he's ever been and so glad that I helped him along. He agrees that if I hadn't, he would have stayed in the "someday" phase for years...and was 39 when we got engaged--I don't have years to wait around!!
Before signing a new lease, my landlord wanted to know if I would sign a less than a year lease so he could sell the place during the summer. I told him sure. I knew that by June, DH and would have been dating for 1.5 years. We either needed to be engaged (or rapidly moving towards it) or broken up and I needed to buy my own place. I loved him and it would have killed me to break up, but I knew I couldn't just wait around.
But I also know my DH. He's wanted to buy a new guitar for over a year. He wants it, we have the money. Nothing is stopping him. But he just can't pull the trigger and take the plunge. It's a stupid guitar and he can't decide. How long do you think I would have been waiting for him to make a decision about marriage.
OP,
Are you really genuinely happy for her? It seems it wouldn't matter to you one way or the other if you are truly happy for her. It just appears you want to put a negative spin on her situation . Could it be to make yours seem better? Even if it were forced how does it affect you?
Just curious as to your motivations.
Honestly, you can never make a man do what he doesn't want to do. Let me rephrase, it terms of marriage, you can never "make" a man do anything. As far as ultimatums, I would never go there. Simply because if my man doesn't do something with his whole heart, then I don't want it. I am like that with everything. The FI and I argue about this. He will attempt to do something that I want, for example go to a party on a work night, and I will tell him to stay home if he only wants to come because I want him to come. The FI gets slightly upset and irritated trying to make me understand that, no, he doesn't want to come to the party. However, he loves making me happy. So yes, he is doing it for me, but he also gets something out of it. He gets to make me happy. I know this is long-winded, but I just wanted to share.
To wrap things up, I don't think it wasn't genuine, but it isn't for me. I needed my man to make the decision completely on his own. For the both of us, he needed to be the "man" making the decision and I needed to be completely sure that marriage to me is what he wanted. I think it is important for a man to feel like he makes up his own mind, and that he is not being ruled by his lady.
Ok, I'm done. Just my 2 cents.
Eh, I don't know. Some guys need more coaxing than others. I don't think asking for a timeline is unreasonable (say you're 33 and you want a family, I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for a timeline unless you've been together 2 weeks or something).
But to say "Propose or we break up"? That's not genuine to me. You backed him into a corner. But you know, most men won't marry a women if he really doesn't want to.
@SamanthaLovesJames: No, I don't think its the right thing to do. I broke off my engagement for this reason. You can't propose to keep me and still seem unsure in your heart. I would rather leave and be with someone that is 100% all in/on the same page than stay with a person that feels he has a good catch and only proposes because he does not want to lose the relationship. No thanks. I believe a deep desire to be with your spouse is what gets you through some of the tough times. If one person is missing that, how will it last forever? If you REALLY want a lady as your wife you will gladly, willingly, joyously ask her for her hand in marriage....thats what I desire.
@Soladylike: That's great in theory. But not all guys are like that. I have a DH that can't be 100% sure about buying a guitar. He would never (or at least it would have been many many years) have been 100% about getting married. He was divorced and taking that step was just scary. And being in the nice, safe dating stage was warm and comfortable. We were older, had lots of relationship experience and I figured you either want to do this or not. So here is my timeline, you decide.
And I agree with PP, you can't force a man to do anything he doesn't want to do.
I'd always be wondering if he really wanted to be marrying me or just felt as though he was forced into it. I don't think there's anything wrong with having a conversation and making sure your partner knows you are ready for marriage, with him specifically, and then leave it at that. If he still doesn't propose on his own, well maybe that's saying something. Actions do speak louder than words after all....
OP in regards to your situation, your friend is actually engaged now so I would treat it as a proper engagement. No one knows how it will turn out for them and whether it was or wasn't a result of the ultimatum but the point is that now they're moving forward so it's best to treat it as genuine engagement, even though you, and most of us on her, may not agree with how she went about getting engaged.
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