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I've been a member for more than a year and created this account to ask this question while preserving my anonymnity...
Saturday night my husband (7 months married) & I were at cookout with about 10 other people, mostly my cousins & their spouses. We hang out with this group regularly (at least 3-4 times each month), celebrate birthdays, even travel together as a group. We are all very close and have a great time together.
So we're playing Pictionary, men vs. women & it is my husband's turn to draw & it is "all play" so I am drawing for the women's team. He has the card in his hand but won't let me see it to find out the word. He keeps flashing it at me, but I don't have my glasses on so I can't read it (I take this as him playing). Finally I hold his hand & I read it and am ready to draw. We're joking around (at least I think so) and we are talking trash to each other & I give him the "talk to the hand". He keeps talking smack so I keep "giving him the hand".
All of a sudden, he grabbed my wrist and moved my hand from hs face. He held my wrist and twisted it for a few seconds and I told him it hurt. I was shocked and said, "Are you going to beat me in front of my family"? One of the other guys said, "Whoa! That's enough" and my husband let go. My husband threw the marker on a table and sat down & everyone was quiet. I was stunned & went to sit in my seat which was next to my husband. My husband had a look of disgust and said "Get away from me." I sat for a minute or two and then when people were otherwise occupied I went to sit alone in another area because my wrist was hurting and I was about to cry.
After a few minutes, a female cousin came to check on me but I was crying and asked her to leave me alone. A minute later another female came out to check on me. I told her I was fine and I just needed some time alone, but she refused to leave me alone and kept telling me to come back to the group. I left the property to get that time alone and went for a walk.
Ten minutes later I am headed back to the house and my husband and a male cousin are on the front walkway. I passed the house and my husband approached me saying "I can't believe you showed out like that! You're trying to challenge my manhood in front of your family and I'm not going to play these games with you". I told him to keep his distance and got back to the walkway where my cousin was. I told my husband he could talk to me there with my cousin and he got angry. He told my cousin that I didn't want to be married to him anymore and then left his house keys on another car (I didn't have my keys with me), got in his car and drove away. My cousin tried to tell him he was being irrational and that we should talk, but he left anyway.
A female cousin then came outside and she and the male cousin asked if my husband had ever hit me, pushed me, grabbed me, etc and I told them no. My wrist was hurting and it was black and blue, but this was the only time my husband has ever been physical with me since we began dating more than 4 years ago. He rarely even curses, but has yelled at me once or twice when we've argued.
I explained to my cousins that I was in shock because he had never done anything like that before and I was crying because I felt like my husband had crossed a line. I had been engaged once before and that guy turned out to be abusive. It began with words, then he hit me and eventually he almost killed me. I was very open with my husband about this (my cousins knew about it too) and we had discussed that while I could put up with and try to work through just about anything in our marriage, anything physical would be a deal-breaker. I told them how things started out small with my ex and then grew into abouse and this scared me.
My male cousin said he really didn't believe that my husband meant to hurt me and that I should talk to him. My female cousin agreed that it doesn't seem to be my husband's nature to hit a woman and that I was probably overreacting, but she said if she had my history, she would've been scared too. She asked me about my husband's temper because about a year ago she witnessed an incident when were were all at the beach and all got tossed around in rough surf. One person wasn't a good swimmer and my husband and I are former lifeguards so I went to help that person first, rather than my husband. My husband got angry with me and wouldn't talk to me for most of the afternoon and my cousin saw that.
My husband is 6'4" around 290 pounds. He was in the millitary and to strangers he might look intimidating, but anyone who knows him calls him a gentle giant. He's usually really laid back and friendly and always very helpful.
After talking with my cousins for a while, I called my husband and he said that another person at the party had already texted him and told him to come back to get me. He was almost there and he apologized and said he didn't mean to hurt me. He said that where he's from, putting your hand in someone's face is not a joke, it is blatant disrespect and he couldn't believe I would disrespect him like that in front of my family (we are from different cultures and soci-economic groups... He is from 'the hood'). He said that he didn't realize he had held my wrist that hard and never meant to hurt me. He said he was embarrassed and that made him more angry. He said he didn't mean to be intimidating when he approached me and could understand why I didn't want to talk to him alone.
We went home together that night, but things were wierd. Things are still wierd but getting better. We talked about it again and he apologized repeatedly and told me that he would never hurt me. My male cousin (who is a minister) sent him a text yesterday saying he wanted to talk to me husband about his temper. My husband is embarrassed but said he will talk with him because he wants both me and my family to know he will not hurt me and is committed to our marriage. He said that I am hypervigilant and hypersensitive regarding domestic violence because of my history.
So what are your thoughts? Was this just an unfortunate incident or a red flag?
Thanks if you read all of that and have any advice or thoughts for us.
It sounds like it was an accident. You guys were goofing around and he didn't intend to actually hurt you.
However, your reaction, "Are you going to beat me in front of my family" is a HUGE red flag to anyone within earshot! If he's never hurt you, why would you ever say that?? If I were your husband, I would have been incredibly embarrassed and hurt. And then you run off crying?? To an outsider, it would seem like you actually are beaten by him. And then you tell your cousin you don't want to be married to him?
Sorry, but it sounds like a little incident got HUGELY blown out of proportion and I'm sorry, but you caused it to get so bad.
Ok, I just reread your post and you mention a previous abusive relationship.
You need counseling. It would appear that you still have emotional scars from that previous person. Your husband is not to blame for this but you will need his support to move forward.
I think it is both an unfortunate incident and a red flag.
It is not enough for him to say he never meant to hurt you. It is not acceptable to blame different cultures.The fact is he held your wrist and twisted it until you were black and blue.
I suggest more than just one talk with the minister is needed. I would insist that he get counselling, and I would make it clear that I was out of there if he EVER laid a hand on me again.
I also think you should get some counselling ( or further counselling) . Although I do think your initial comment " Are you going to beat me..?." was over the top for the situation, no one can ever use provocation as a excuse for physical abuse.
No one EVER has the right to lay a hand on you.
I think this is a very unfortunate incident of miscommunication in the way that you stepped over a line without knowing it and it caused him to step over a line.
I think if you two can talk it out and make sure you both understand what he considers disrespect and that he will never, ever lay a hand on you again that you can move on. If there is any incident like this in the future, and he knows this, that there will be no second chance.
I don't think it was OK what he did in the slightest, but there was a provocation, however unintentional, that hit a really sensitive spot for him.
AS you probably know, abusers will often apologize and promise the world after the fact, so the fact that he is willing to talk isnt a "fixer" but its a chance to communicate and make the boundaries really clear. And the boundaries are if he ever touches you forecefully again, whether or not he hurts you, its over. No more excuses or rationales.
I agree it was an accident, and it seems like he realizes the extent of what he did, and is willing to make amends to atone for what he did. As long as he is willing to do what it takes to gain trust back, I think that it will be ok.
I also agree that you saying he was going to beat you crossed a line, and I think probably made it worse. I also agree that maybe you do need to seek counseling because although you were valid in your feelings, I think it was a bit extreme, especially in front of your family. Maybe there are unresolved feelings towards what happened in your past
@inquiring mind: He shouldn't have grabbed your wrist that hard, but you also shouldn't have said "Are you going to beat ne?" That was a huge overreaction on your part. I know you mention you have been in an abusive relationship in the past, which is most likely why you said that. But you are in a new relationship now and you can't bring those scars into this new marriage to the point that they will ruin it. If I were him, you saying" are you going to beat me?" would have been incredibly hurtful and a huge blow to my pride.
I think you need to seek personal counseling to try to put the past in the past. I do think it is good that you didn't just let the incident slide. Too many women try to justify their husband's violent actions.
But this just sounds more like a case of things getting blown way out of proportion. Not saying what he did was right, but DH has accidently grabbed me too hard before, he didn't mean too, but he's a lot stronger than me, and he felt horrible about it. If it happens again though, then you need to start questioning it more seriously.
Before I got to the end of your OP I was thinking it sounds like things went a little too far and he was probably more embarrassed and upset with himself which appeared as anger at you, which you stated he said something similar near the end. I really don't think it was just an excuse, it's probably the truth.
Abuse follows a pattern, if this truly was out of the ordinary for him I say forgive it. Talking it over a little won't hurt, it sounds like he has a bit of a sore spot when it comes to looking respected in front of family.
"He said that I am hypervigilant and hypersensitive regarding domestic violence because of my history"
He needs to be just as sensitive, then!
It does sound like an accident, but I would still be on high alert for any other forms or incidents of abuse.
I think it was both a red flag and an unfortunate incident. I agree with most of what PPs said. Maybe the two of you should seek professional counseling to prevent these things from happening again. I know "counseling" carries such a stigma in some areas, but I think it would really be worth it.
Like other posters, it sounds to me like you need counseling. I wouldn't consider this a red flag-but I'd be cautious and keep my eyes peeled for a while. You and he should sit down and really talk about how your previous relationship has affected you and what he can do to make you feel safe around him. Also you should discuss the differences if your cultures so you know what not to do--and so he knows you know.
He definitely reacted out of anger, but I don't think that he meant to hurt you. If I were you, I would be careful about how you react to things... I agree with pps in that your previous circumstances are going to affect how you view things now. That does not excuse his behavior, but at the same time, you had his hand in his face. I would have swatted your hand away at the very least if it had been me.
I would suggest talking to him about what is okay and what is not okay. Tell him how you felt about the beach thing, and now this. Counseling might be your best bet.
This seriously breaks my heart. I can only tell you this: If it WERE an accident, he would not have said ""I can't believe you showed out like that! You're trying to challenge my manhood in front of your family and I'm not going to play these games with you" given that he knows your history.
I can imagine something very different like "Oh my god, baby, I'm so sorry, I didn't think I hurt you!"
To me, it's a red flag on his part, not yours and send you sincerest hugs.
ETA: He didn't just take your wrist, he twisted and squeezed so much it caused a bruise. Again, a man in love and protective of his wife would have gone a much different route. He hates the hand in the face? So he could have grabbed you and tickled you. Anything else.
Accident or not, the appropriate reaction to a perceived or actual act of disrespect is NEVER to physically harm your wife. Twisting your wrist and holding it until someone told him to let go is not an accident.
Honestly, your past history makes his act that much worse to me. Of course you reacted the way you did. He should understand that, as should your family.
I think the two of you need to go to counseling, be it a professional counselor or minister.
I think you should see a third-party (not your cousin) counselor together. It sounds to me that he might have some issues with respect (from what he said about showing him up, challenging his manhood, and being angry that you were first to respond to an emergency) and you may have unresolved issues with your past relationship. I think going as a couple will help you both set boundries and be much more open/honest in discussing your feelings than talking it out at home alone.
It doesn't sound like this was a true "accident", but it doesn't sound like your husband meant to hurt you. It does sound like there are underlying feelings/issues that could lead to hurt or problems in the future (your sensitivity to actions that could be perceived as abusive and his hot temper to actions that could be perceived as disrespect). In my experience, having a neutral third-party helps resolve these issues in a more thorough, peaceful way.
He did over react to the hand in his face thing. He needs to know how to communicate to you what upsets him in a calm way-- which also means he has to recongize that you are not trying to intentially upset him. He failed in understanding the situation, and I think that's important. So much of communication can go badly when you don't read the other person's intent correctly.
Your statement about being beated was way over the top. If you needed to communicate to him to stop there was a much BETTER way to do that. I understand that you were scared but he's not your ex. Don't treat him like he is your ex, its not fair to him or your relationship.
You both need to go to counseling, probably seperately and together. He has some temper/communication/ maybe insecurity issues (maybe he felt less loved/insecure because youd didn't save him in the water and covered up being hurt by being angry). And you have to still heal from your past relationship.
(huggles!)
Holding your wrist so hard that you're black and blue is not an accident. There's no excuse for what he did. I don't care where he's from, or what the hand-in-face thing means to him. So he thinks it's insulting--that makes it ok for him to grab you like that? Let's just say you really HAD insulted him in front of everyone, totally unprovoked--hypothetically. He STILL would not be justified in doing what he did.
To me, this story is filled with red flags. As a PP said, the fact that your reaction was "are you going to beat me in front of my family" speaks volumes about what's going on in your unconscious. The idea of him beating you didn't just pop into your head out of nowhere at that moment.
It sounds like he has "manhood" issues--needing to be the authority, needing to be the strong one, etc. These issues are going to keep cropping up, again and again. I would talk to him about it, and try to get help. Speaking with your cousin might help, but it might be better to get counseling from someone you don't interact with socially.
Agree with The idea of him beating you didn't just pop into your head out of nowhere at that moment.
Why do I have a feeling you already fear him?
An accident is grabbing you qickly and holding on a little too hard, not twisting your wrist until someone makes him stop. And violence is never an acceptable response to embarrasment, I don't care where you're from. If he was bothered by what you were doing, there were other, more appropriate ways to get that across than the one he chose. So definately go to counseling together and learn how to get his temper under control.
We all have things that we consider unacceptable in a spouse, areas with zero tolerance, so to speak. For some it's cheating, for some it's drinking, for some it's drugs, for you it's abuse. You have to be comfortable in your living situation, so lay out for him (and for you) exactly what that means. Hugs honey.
Thanks to you all for your insight and observations.
I truly appreciate your pointing out my words "Are you going to beat me in front of my family" and you are right, that is a result of my past relationship.
I have had extensive counseling about the ordeal I suffered at my ex's hands and until now believed that I was dealing with it in a healthy manner. I think that I did have a flashback or in some other way equate my husband's behavior with that of my ex and that was unfounded. But you are also correct that the fact that my wrist had a mark was unacceptable.
I am going to get myself back into some counseling to revisit my past and how it is affecting my present and I think I will let my husband decide if he wants to see my cousin for his counseling or speak with someone else. Once he has decided that, I will then request some couples counseling for us with a neutral 3rd party that is not in our social circle.
Thanks for your time, insight and support!
I felt very sad reading this - I don't know why - maybe because it kind of confirms the so-to-speak "warnings" about marriage people give. One of which is that things tend to change thereafter. This does sound like a spur of the moment thing and he really does sound sorry. However, the fact that he could have does this, means that something is wrong. If he just held your wrist with a little bit of pressure, to indicate that he is not happy with what you were doing, it would be different although still a bit too physical. But the fact that your wrist was blue and hurting for some time after his grip and twist means there was severe anger within him when he did that. Have you guys been experiencing any other problems recently, which could have resulted in a build-up of anger towards you? He needs to know that however sorry he is for doing this, it is completely unacceptable!
This is hard. I generally take a "no tolerance" stand when it comes to any form of abuse, be it physical, mental, or emotional. However, while I have no problem joking with people when it comes to the whole "talk to the hand" thing, I do know of people who take that as one of the ultimate signs of disrespect (regardless of whether the person is joking around or not) and would have a very strong reaction to someone doing that (and I was thinking this even before I saw what his reaction was). However, that doesn't excuse him grabbing you the way that he did. I do agree with PPs that you should undergo private counseling for your previous abusive relationship (and I just believe in counseling in general). I also believe that he should undergo private counseling and that the two of you should undergo counseling as a couple. He needs to learn how to communicate his hurt, embarrassment, etc. to you without putting his hands on you. Period. However, I don't necessarily think that this is a sign that he will be physically abusive to you.
ETA - Sorry, OP - I didn't see your most recent post before posting this.
I want to speak to something that I don't think other people have mentioned.
To me, his comment about "challenging my manhood" is as much a red flag as the action itself. This suggests that he believes that his "manhood" (whatever the fuck that means) depends on women (or at least, "his" woman) showing him deference/submission. That is a deeply unhealthy combination. I hope that this is something you both explore in therapy together. I have no idea whether or not he is likely to be physically abusive, but that kind of expectation often goes hand-in-hand with controlling and/or abusive behavior.
@mightywombat: I couldnt possibly agree more, and Im glad you pointed that out.
@Just_Squeeze: I can honestly say that until that moment, I have never felt any fear of or with him. Like I said, my husband is a big guy and he is a natural protector. But he has never laid a hand on me before. He has raised his voice, he has cursed, but never cursed *at* me. He might say "What the f...?" while watching football (and then he says "oh, excuse me" if I'm in earshot) or "I don't like that sh..." with his friends or my male cousins; that is pretty much the extent of it.
However, I agree about his reaction and when we talked about it I told him. If he had approached me saying "Are you okay?" instead of "I can't believe you are showing out..." I firmly believe that I would've felt more at ease and been willing to talk to him at that moment. I was shocked by his reaction and it seemed very cold to me.
I'm glad to hear I was wrong in that you don't already fear him :)
Why would he hold on to your wrist like that, i dont get that part. I dont understand how thats an accident.
@mightywombat: I don't think his "manhood" has anything to do with deference/submission. I think it has to do with respect. He expects his wife to respect him yet he felt (because of the hand in the face thing) that he was being publicly disrespected.
I don't think it is unreasonable to want your wife to respect you (or for a wife to expect her husband to respect her).
@inquiring mind: I don't think your husband is abusive although I think he crossed a line of appropriate behavior in this instance (although I think you did as well with the "beating me in front of my family" comment which I know you've already addressed in this thread, but I don't think it helped the situation any for him to have heard that.)
Counseling (both together and separate) for both of you would be beneficial, I think. Since you have been in an abusive relationship in the past, I'm sure you know the signs. I'd watch out for anything further concerning, but I think this is an isolated incident that got out of hand, not abuse.
@Mrs.KMM: Of course it's reasonable to expect your spouse to respect you. But when it's phrased in terms of "manhood" and combined with physically controlling, punishing, or hurting the supposedly disrespecting wife, that suggests an expectation of dominance.
I think everything that resulted after him twisting your wrist (not MEANING to hurt you) was the cause of your overreacting and saying "are you going to beat me in front of my family?" that was pretty dramatic, and rude, on your part. i dont think he intentionally meant to grab you by the wrist and twist it to inflict pain. i think it was a playful reflex of sorts.
I'm in the minority here, but I think people are being way too hard on OP. Someone with a history of abuse has her husband grab and twist her arm back, LEAVING BRUISES, and SHE's the one who's overreacting? I don't think so. I'm not saying the husband will continue to be violent, but the burden is on him, not the OP. Especially when his immediate reaction wasn't, "Oh my god, what did I do, I'm so sorry!" but to blame the OP. That is not the reaction of someone who regrets what he did.
@stillme: agreed. This situation is disturbing to me because it seems out of character and different than the man you have known for 4+ years.
FWIW there is a zero tolerance policy in my home regarding physical attacks. You can yell, curse, and pace, but don't come at me unless you want the police picking you up.
@mightywombat: I actually completely agree with you
gender roles or "manhood" have nothing to do with respect- you respect an individual not for their manly prowess, nor should they be judged by such- it should be on the character of the individual, and thats what respect really pretains to.
She was joking with him, and he completely overreacted, and he "triggered" her past abusive emotions. Triggering is a real effect for those who have been traumatized in the past, and in that case, I cant believe a man who loves her would react by berating her inability to respect his manhood (not respect him as an individual) rather than comforting someone he knows was effected by past abuse.
ETA: I wont even talk about how inapproperiate and a red flag it is to me that he clearly chose to bruise her wrist and took out his anger on her supposed "disrespect" physically. I think thats more than obvious.
I was abused by my ex-husband and he was convicted of trying o kill me in 2005 so if you want to talk, PM me.
As for whether or not your husband was being abusive, check out this checklist:
SIGNS THAT YOU’RE IN AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP
Your Inner Thoughts and Feelings
Your Partner’s Belittling Behavior
Do you:
Does your partner:
Your Partner’s Violent Behavior or Threats
Your Partner’s Controlling Behavior
Does your partner:
Does your partner:
It was just an accident on his part. Given his physique, I doubt he knew he was actually hurting you as badly as he did.
I do agree with him about the 'hand in face' thing. That is very disrespectul of you to be doing that in front of your family. That makes him feel pu$$y-whipped. Given his military and 'hood background, I wouldn't imagine his reaction to be any other way than what it was.
It takes a LOT of courage to apologize for a man like your DH and he did.
I do wish that your Minister cousin stays out of it. He is concerned about your well-being but I feel he crossed the line when he approached your DH via text message to talk to him. He should have talked to YOU first and gone that route. Also text message to talk about something SO SERIOUS with a man of God? C'mon! That's kinda insulting. Sometimes people wanna do good but they just go about it the wrong way and end up doing more harm than good from the get-go.
Ask yourself and answer honestly and that will help you *gauge* whether or not he fits the profile of an abuser. However, keep in mind that not all abusers will fit a profile.
Personally, it sounds to me as though it was a misunderstanding and your reaction "Are you going to abuse me in front of my family" let it snowball into more than it needed to. That is not to say that as a survivor of domestic abuse I do not understand your reaction, nor is it to say I condone his grabbing and twisting your wrist.
Usually, abusers don't lie in wait for so long. Most often, it is a quick courtship and marriage and then they begin to isolate you from friends and family members to break down your self-esteem and support network. If he is hanging out with your family regularly and is willing to talk things over with them regarding the incident (and to me the fact that none of the guys jumped on him for touching you), this was most ikely an isolated incident and with communication, counseling and forethought, this shouldn't happen again.
I know that if any of my friends or family thought my husband was being abusive they'd have done more than just say, "Whoa!"
Good luck!
I truly can't believe how many members are excusing his behavior as an "accident".
e.g.
"It was just an accident on his part. Given his physique, I doubt he knew he was actually hurting you as badly as he did.
I do agree with him about the 'hand in face' thing. That is very disrespectul of you to be doing that in front of your family. That makes him feel pu$$y-whipped. Given his military and 'hood background, I wouldn't imagine his reaction to be any other way than what it was."
An accident would be pushing her hand out of his face and accidentally making her drop her pictionary pencil. It doesn't matter WHAT she siad- there is no excuse for manhndling someone until they have bruises.
It is clear from his comment about feeling that his manhood was threatened , that he has issues to deal with, as does she.
If you excuse this type of behavior, where do you draw the line?
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