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Could you please clarify a bit about your mother booking the date of your wedding. Did that occur because you gave her a general permission to book any Saturday night before you became aware of the officiant issue, or did your mother take it upon herself to book your wedding date without getting your permission first? If it is the latter, that is really inappropriate and controlling behavior.
My Fi and I are from the same religous backgrounds as you, and we decided to get married at our reception venue with either a priest and rabbi co-officiating or with one secular officiant. Finding a priest/rabbi to co-officiate on a Saturday night is not particularly difficult in NYC, but I don't know how challenging this will be in Vancouver. Are there many reform rabbis in Vancouver? They are usually much more flexible about officiating on a Saturday night. Rabbbis and priests affiiated with universities are also more likely to co-officiate interfaith ceremonies.
We would not be willing to get married in either a church or a synagogue since it would make one side of the family quite unhappy. I'm sorry that your mother is not happy about the fact that you will not be gettting married in a church, but it is your wedding and the ceremony needs to reflect your beliefs and values as a couple. And it is quite understandable that your FI's family would not be happy to see their son get married in a church, just as your family would not be happy to see you get married in a synagogue.
Your mother may not be able to understand that she is making an unreasonable request by asking you to marry in a church. All you need to say to her is, " I know that this is difficult for you, but just as you wouldn't want our wedding to take place in a synagouge, my FI's family would prefer for it to not take place in a church. So we have decided to get married in a ceremony that incorporates both traditions at our reception site."
The other issue is that (at least here) it is not terribly convenient to marry in a Catholic church, since they tend to schedule weddings early to accomondate Saturday evening mass. Here, Catholic weddings are usually scheduled at 3:30 in tthe afternoon, and receptions usually start at 6:30 or 7 in a different location. So either guests choose to not attend the wedding ceromony, or they have a significant amount of downtime between the events.
First off Congrats. I too will be entering into an interfaith marriage (Methodist/Jewish). Now it is my understanding you can get married on a Saturday in the Jewish culture as long as it is after sunset -- which can push your ceremony time really late. I really think you need to sit down with all parties involved and have them write out from top to bottom in order of priority what they want in your ceremony. Than take their list and compare it to your and your FI list because after all this is your wedding ceremony. I say do this because IMHO the day really is about the ceremony which will bond you "until death do you part". The ceremony was the one thing of the day I was not going to let someone else besides my FI, myself, our minister and rabbi help dictate what will happen. Unfortunately some feelings will be hurt but at the end of the day let them have their way with something else less meaningful (say the band, food choice, table decorations, etc.) At the start of our wedding planning (in June 07) we too were going to have two ceremonies but we were able to convince all parties involved that our country club ceremony with a rabbi and a minister is all we wanted and it will be more meaningful than the two individual ceremonies because everyone we love and who loves us will be all together in support of our interfaith life.
This obviously is a very sensitive situation. It's important to have your FI be involved in all discussions w/ his parents especially. My FI is also from a very reformed Jewish family and I was raised Catholic, but would now identify as agnostic. We decided it was important to have our ceremony in a neutral location (i.e. not a church or a synagogue). Since you are getting married in the summer, you could always have the ceremony outside. Since we are getting married in the winter in Chicago, outside was obviously out of the question, so when looking for a venue, the fact that it had a space for the ceremony was essential. Now we are getting married in this beautiful lobby of the library where we are having our reception.
We are intending on having an interfaith officiant, neither rabbi nor priest. There are tons of these spiritual officiants out there. I'm thinking about using this ceremony as our base in constructing ours: http://www.interfaithofficiants.com/DesignYourOwnCeremonyPages/DesignYourOwnCeremonySampleInterfaithJewishCeremonies.html
As a final note, do you care if your wedding is validated by your Archbishop? I think the ceremony should be about your FI and you.
Good luck!
-T
My man and I are the exact opposite of you two, as I am the one from the Jewish background. His father is Catholic, and his mother is actually Lutheran. Neither he nor I are very religious outside of family traditions for holiday celebrations. I think it is important for you two to determine which traditions you would like to include in your ceremony, and then the rest can fall into place. I would have to say that even though I am not very religious, I would not feel comfortable being married in a church, as I still do have some Jewish ties. Likewise, I would never expect my bf to feel comfortable being married in a Jewish temple. If you could find a rabbi and a Catholic priest who are willing to co-officiate your ceremony, I would recommend that instead of two separate ceremonies. Otherwise, an interfaith officiant of some kind would probably be best. Perhaps an outdoor location would be the most neutral (or an indoor location that is not associated with religion). I would definitley involve all important parties in the decision-making process, as you want to hear everyone AND you want them all to hear you. I also wanted to agree with a previous note that many rabbis will host a ceremony on a Saturday as long as it is after sunset.
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Thanks for all the thoughtful responses. I feel I should keep pushing for a neutral venue. It is hard for my mom to see this as a compromise, because she thinks that his family being so secular means a neutral venue would cater to them while putting my family off. I really do not agree, so debate will be had.
As for FH helping me out, well.... He wants his family to back off and just go to the church because there are 10 of them and 150 of "us" (no word of a lie). I think that is the wrong way to go about this issue. It is about the joining of two families, and the fact that his is so small means my side should be a bit more welcoming and embracing rather than domineering. He agrees to support me because he can see how upset this is making me and I think he is starting to appreciate how upset his family is.
As for my mom - I told her that she should consider a Sunday wedding on a long weekend. She went ahead and booked the venue without asking me. I asked her to help with vendors, since I am at school on the east coast. Booking a date without a phone call in advance? Not exactly what i had in mind :)
Wow- your mother was really out of line to book the venue on a date you did not want. Your fiance is very kind, but you need to work on setting limits to your mother's behavior. You should start practicing setting limits now, since it is going to be even harder when you have children and your mother decides to "help"
I think it's really important for you to understand that "secular" in the way you are describing it is not the same concept when it comes to Judaism. Because Judaism is BOTH a culture and a religion, a "secular Jew" really is no less Jewish than a "religious Jew," because a secular Jew can still full well be very culturally Jewish (for example, Israeli Jews are largely secular, but they're most certainly Jewish in every sense of the word!). Holding a ceremony in the way you are are proposing excludes both Catholic religious elements AND Jewish cultural elements. This is as "insulting" to a cultural Jew as it is to a religious Catholic, and as sad as this sounds, is therefore truly a compromise. Also, if your mother is into tallying compromises, placing the ceremony on a Saturday is already a major compromise on your IL's part. But that is getting petty and beside the point.
That being said, the way you are handling this is to be commended, and I think a secular ceremony incorporating the more universal aspects from both Judaism and Catholicism is definitely the way to go. You want the ceremony to be a reflection of you two, of your relationship, and the fact that you are interreligious is very much a part of that.
"<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: tahoma; font-size: 13px">This is as "insulting" to a cultural Jew as it is to a religious Catholic, and as sad as this sounds, is therefore truly a compromise."
Yes! This exactly. I have been talking to other Catholic relatives (I already spoke to all the Jewish ones) and they are seeing it exactly as you put it. There is no such thing as a 100% Jewish and Catholic ceremony. It is inherently a compromise, and I am trying to get all parties to come to a honest, amicable, and charitable 50/50 without focussing on the 50% they are losing.
I am Jewish and my fiancee is Catholic. He and his family are much more practicing with their religion that my family and I are. We decided early on that we wanted to get married in an outdoor venue overlooking the water, it was more what we wanted and had less to do with the religious aspect. However, he did know that I would not feel comfortable getting married in a chuch. I dont practice my religion alot but it still makes me uncomfortable to be in a church. I have gone with him for holidays but I do it for him. We have decided that when we have kids, they will be raised Catholic but still know they are Jewish and celebrate the holidays and learn about the religion. Simply because he is more practicing than I am, I feel like I cant demand for our kids to be my religion when I dont practice as much as it is.
Anyway, both our parents were fine with the outdoor ceremony, though his mom did want us to get married by a priest. I didnt want that and neither did my parents. If anything, we would have done a priest and a rabbi (but Catholic priests dont marry couples outside of the church). We decided to have one of his older brothers be the officiant. His mom wanted to use a priest from Australia that her friends son was using that were being married outside of the church, but we explained to her this is what we wanted and she understoond. We will have a non-denominational wedding, though we will be breaking the glass and doing the Hora. We are trying to think of things to do to incorporate his religion as well. I think we will do a couple readings but they will not mention Jesus.
After we decided on all this, my fiancee asked me if I would be ok getting married in the Catholic church sometime after our wedding so our kids could be raised Catholic. Because it is not like we are doing 2 ceremonies in 1 day, I am ok with it. I spoke to my parents and my dad told me even though he does not agree with it, of course he (and the rest of my family) would be there for the 2nd ceremony because it was important to his family and my fiancee.
I agree with FutureMrsR, that a rabbi will hold a ceremony on a Saturday as long as it is after sunset. This may be a very late ceremony if you are getting married in the summer, but if you getting married another month I think it would work out very nicely. Good luck with everything and let us know how it turns out!
So, a wee update: one of the potential rabbis I am conversing with mentioned that she will perform a wedding on a Saturday if all the paperwork is done before sundown on Friday as she considers writing to be out of the question on the sabbath. She also mentioned that she co-officiated with priests in and outside churches in our area before, so I asked her if she could possibly name a few that she enjoyed working with in the past.
His family is also ok with the wedding being on a Saturday. His parents were married on a Saturday. Their main concern with the day was finding a rabbi. I talked to his parents and they are being so extremely sweet and understanding about everything. My dad has also been honest and constructive. My mom? Heh heh heh ... I'm working on it.
I have revised my stance somewhat and I would be okay with the following outcomes:
1. One ceremony, co-officiated on neutral ground
2. Two ceremonies a few weeks apart, attended by all parents and grandparents.
3. Two ceremonies the same day or Friday/Saturday
4. One ceremony, co-officiated in a church or chapel pending grandparental approval
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Hi Lotus!
I hope the last few months have been less stressy for you and you have made some concrete plans. But if it helps, I can tell you that my home parish is also in a pretty conservative Archdiocese (Philadelphia), and I was able to get dispensations for "marrying outside of the cult" and having a rabbi recieve the vows. By applying to have the rabbi recieve the vows and be the one to marry us, that covers permission to marry outside of a church, so we will have a co-officiated wedding with a priest and a rabbi at our reception site- an historical property/museum that reflects our beliefs as a couple (the Pearl S Buck house and center for Pearl S Buck International).
I spent MONTHS agonizing over how difficult this was going to be, and I am finding that I'm getting much less push back than I thought I would. I had one priest say he wouldn't do it, but his main reason was that he hasn't done many weddings and doesn't know what he would need to do to co-officiate. The answer is get those dispensations (your priest will apply for them on your behalf), and then have a Priest there to bless the marriage or ideally represent your side equally in the ceremony. You'll still have to do pre-cana and all that good stuff, but it's not bad :) All the worrying has been for nothing (so far at least).
I hope this has been helpful- I understand your concerns and stress. I had to switch my date too- I had no idea Rabbi's were difficult to book on a saturday 2 years out! So we chose sunday of Columbus day weekend.
I am catholic and my FI is Jewish. If i left it up to my FI parents they would be delighted for me to get married in a tample... i told them its not happening.... What we are doing is combining both religions. I have a rabbi and and am trying to find a preist or a clergy to marry us.... most likly a clergy because preist wont marry you unless your in a church.
We are trying to mix the culture together w/ the unity candles, jewish faith and a some catholic mixed in. You should all sit down as a family and talk it over. Its your wedding and you need to do what YOU want to do. Just try to compromise.
I am also from a Catholic family and my fiance is Jewish but neither of us are practicing. We're having a secular ceremony; however, I was wondering what Catholic traditions you might try to include.
We are getting married in a few weeks and we are having an interfaith outdoor ceremony. I wasn't able to get the dispensations that naangel55 got and I was very dissapointed. I eventually found an Independent Catholic Church and the priest there will co-officiate our wedding with a Jewish Cantor.
We are including the questions of intent, Catholic vows and a catholic blessing. We will recite hebrew when we exhange rings, sign a ketubah, share the wine and break the glass.
I am late to the party, but this is coming up for me as well... except I am the Jewish one, and FI only decided that he was Catholic... TODAY. ;)
But I did want to say that we are having a rabbi officiate on a Saturday... if you find someone from a Reconstructionist synagogue they may be more flexible on time. "Shabbat is in your heart," he told me ;). He also said he'd like to do a Havdalah either vefore the ceremony at the Bideken or at the beginning of the ceremony to make it a little more acceptable.
Hi Bees,
I am a Reform Jewish bride and my groom's family is Catholic, specifically from Italy. My fiancee doesn't identify as Catholic. In our planning we have had a few bumps in the road and rabbis that wouldn't marry us if we didn't take a 15 week course, etc. We have found a wonderful Cantor in South Florida (where we are getting married) and she does a lot of interfaith ceremonies. In our research we weren't able to find an active priest, not a "previous priest" to marry us without sacraments, pre-cana or a church ceremony - none of which we are doing. We are getting married outside, with a chuppah, broken glass and seven blessings, however we will use a humanistic ketubah, and do readings that honor lots of viewpoints. Planning an interfaith wedding is a challenge but it also provides the opportunity to really allow the ceremony to reflect just us.
good luck@
Hi bees,
I apologize for posting on this board as my fiance and I are both Jewish, but keep reading...
We are not having an interfaith wedding as we're both Jewish (reform), but because my mother is not Jewish, I'm concerned about her side of the family and the Jewish traditions we will be incorporating in our ceremony. I think it may also make my fiance's family uncomfortable that there are so many non-Jews at our wedding (they're that way). In fact, they actually call me a "convert." I was raised Jewish, but because my mother never converted, I guess I'm not pure enough. Creepy, huh? So... any advice on how to have a ceremony that will be inclusive and not make anyone uncomfortable?
To Lotus: on the wedding being on a Saturday, hold the service at sundown. Have cocktail hour before and your guests will be full and present at your ceremony. Also, because the sun will be setting late, dinner will not be served until late in the evening. That's what we're doing and no one has complained of our plans so far. Another option is a dessert and cocktail reception.
We found some great resources for interfaith weddings at www.interfaithfamily.com/weddings. They also have a referral service to help find Jewish clergy to officaite or co-officiate at an interfaith wedding.
not Jewish/Catholic here exactly but,..
I was raised with no religion and my fiance was raised catholic. He started studying religion at a young age and Judism was the only thing that made sense to him. Once we got together Judism made since to me as well. It is a wonderful thing to have this new found connection. We have not converted and do not plan to. So as you can imagine our wedding is a little tricky as well.
Pretty much..its our wedding and thats what matters. We are having it officiated by an Orthodox Rabbi who we are close wtih, and this is a wonderful blessing and honour.
Still dont know the details of the ceremony because our Rabbi is 6 hours away but we are going up to visit soon! I cant wait and will keep you all posted.We are both very thankful to have understanding parents...mine so more than his :)
Lotus-any updates on the plans? We are having our wedding at a event facility because we are not associated with the temple here and will not get married in a church (for obvious reasons). the facility is beautiful and romantic. My advice to you would be to make sure you and your fiance are happy and yes sometimes that means comprimising to make your family happy too because how can you be happy if your loved ones are not?
WIsh you all luck in your marriages! Mazel Tov!
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Any brides out there planning a Jewish-Catholic wedding? I'm curious about how this is working out for you.
This is my story.
I grew up Catholic and though I am not practicing, I want to include rituals familiar to my family for tradition's sake. My family members are quite religious. They know I am not, and have been okay with that for the past 10 years. My FH comes from a secular Jewish family who celebrate religious holidays at home but are not affiliated with any temple or other religious organization.
When we announced the wedding, my parents asked about church. I told them that I wanted a ceremony that reflected both of us and our families. His parents also asked about the ceremony. I mentioned that church or a chapel was a possibility, and this did not go over well at all! His grandparents said that they would not come to the church ceremony. His mother pleaded with me to find a secular venue.
(side note: It really saddens me when brides marrying into a Jewish family complain about how inflexible the Jewish side is. I feel understanding a bit about Jewish history helps with understanding why people react the way they do when church comes up.)
They were also a little miffed that my mother went and booked the venue for a Saturday as it sure makes finding a rabbi impossible. We have plenty of time to change the date, but Saturday is logistically important to me. If not a Saturday, then a Sunday on a long weekend suits me fine. I want people to be able to have fun at the reception and not worry about work the next day.
I told my mother about all this, and she seems to think that NOT including a church ceremony will 1. offend my parents and grandparents and 2. make it nearly impossible to have the wedding convalidated by the Archbishop as I grew up in an extremely conservative Archdiocese.
She thinks the only acceptable solution is to have two ceremonies. This doesn't sit too well with me. I don't like to think of my wedding as two ceremonies in two places with different crowds at each. I know that multi-day multi-ceremony weddings are the norm in some cultures, but at least that also comes with etiquette and expectations. I don't want to find out which of my relatives will only come to the Catholic one and not the Jewish one. I don't want to have a ceremony that doesn't include his parents and grandparents. It's a celebration of unity, after all.
I feel like a secular ceremony on neutral turf incorporating the more universal and inclusive readings and rituals from both faiths (and possibly two receptive officiants) is the way to go. I feel every bridal resource on the internet is backing me up on this one.
The only thing that is eating away at me is my mother suggesting the secular ceremony is not a compromise, because it suits his secular family more than it suits our religious family. I don't think she is right, but I don't think she is wrong, either.