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FizicsGirl, I just wanted to send some hugs and support your way. I think it's important that you have really been able to isolate how you feel and that you and your fiance are willing to talk through things together. It's totally valid to feel the way you do and it's good that you're bringing that stuff up and confronting it together.
My husband and I have pretty similar backgrounds when it comes to money, but we had another issue where I was really upset about his "judgement" on the planning process. My family are Italian and drinking is pretty much part of the experience when you have an Italian wedding. My husband's family is very conservative/more religious and does not drink much at all. As we were planning our final estimate of the budget for the reception, we got into a huge fight because he suggested cutting alcohol all together. I told him that I wouldn't consider that because of my family. I felt like he was being really judgemental about my family and their behaviors, when, after we talked about it, it turned out that he was just upset about the money. It's possible that he's just stressed about the wedding planning in general, and it's manifesting itself in this area.
Either way, I wish you both the best and I'm proud of you that you're talking about everything and confronting these issues together.
Aw, honey, I'm sorry. I don't blame you for being exhausted and drained. It'll get better, I think.
I do have two pieces of advice to offer you, and I offer them with love. First, don't compare your relationship with your fiance to the way a bride looks on her wedding day. I've been there, and it's blissful... and life wasn't like that for us during our engagement. Really. I was amazed at how smiley and relaxed and HAPPY I felt that day, something I chalk up to feeling loved and supported and surrounded by our people, all while having an excuse to be all blissful. Ya know? So while you may not feel that relaxed around your fiance, just know that many of us don't, and that doesn't mean anything is wrong. It's a bummer, but being engaged was much more difficult for us than being married has been. So many changes, so many adjustments, so many big-life decisions. By the time we got married, we'd figured most of it out (and if we haven't, we're at least better at dealing). Kudos to you for doing the hard work now.
The second thing I want to offer is a caution. I suspect most women are like this, but since I can only really speak for myself, I will say that I have been known to not accept my man's agreement because I'm more worried about what he thinks. Does that make sense? So if he says something's okay, I become convinced that he's just saying that and inside his head he's being judgmental. I have to be very careful with that, because I often find that I'm a little bit uncomfortable with whatever it is I'm thinking he's judgmental about, and that in fact I'm projecting.
I think that joining with another person in a lifelong commitment requires so many adjustments that you start to lose track of what is and isn't okay to cave on, and then you can start doing this reverse reaction thing where you say it's okay, but then you believe that the other person doesn't think it's okay... when really you're just not okay with it.
I think this is getting murky, so I'll just say: if he says he doesn't have a problem with it, consider accepting that gift from him. Even if he's not 100% on board and is in the process of adjusting, he's gifting you with his agreement. Take it as a sign of love, not as a sign of judgment. I think it's perfectly acceptable to not want to hear negative things about your family, but I also find myself assuming my hubby is making judgments when in fact he's just expressing opinions.
Just the other day he went on a rant about people who pay off their cars and immediately trade them in for the latest model, and how silly they are to want the newest style rather than savings. Um, my peeps do that. Why? I can't say for sure, but I grew up in a family that don't mess with cars and like the security of having them under warranty. So I got all bristled up about it, when in fact he wasn't intentionally judging. I'm the one who made the leap from his opinion to my family.
Anyway, that's just a very long and meandering way of saying I understand, and it will get better, and you're doing all of the hard work now which is the right thing to do but also the one that makes you feel like maybe your marriage will be this hard. Our engagement was incredibly rough, and then we figured some things out and everything got better.
Hugs.
I'm sorry you're under so much stress right now, I know there's been alot happening in your life recently. I don't have any advice or anything but I think its great you're both working on this together and working on the issues. I hope things are resolved between you both soonest and that you're as relaxed as the bride whose wedding you just attended!
Thanks all for your kind words. I'm sitting at work after a hard conversation, trying to distract myself to keep from crying.
We had a counseling session last night. I thought it went well...he voiced some things I hadn't realized before. And I *thought* he heard me when I talked about how I hear the things he says as judgmental and disrespectful and it makes me feel like crap a lot of the time. But as soon as we got into the car he said he feels that we're not getting much out of the counseling. And then we proceeded to argue about the very thing that we were talking about in the session (our wedding registry). He caught himself getting angry and said, "let's step this back". but then he said he was unable to do that and just needed space (making for a long, uncomfortable car ride).
He's supposed to leave for his b-party tomorrow, and I told him we really need to talk about this. I can't marry someone if I feel that I am constantly being judged and disrespected by him. But I was too tired to do it productively then (I just flew back the night before and had had a long flight delay so got almost no sleep and it was late, 11PM). I suggested tonight, but we had made plans with some friends of his a while back. I told him we could cancel or turn it into drinks later. He just called to let me know he's unwilling to back out. I think he might go over without me now. He says we should have dinner with them and then talk after, but I'm not up for seeing his friends (who are kind of draining to be around anyway b/c the husband is always complaining about everything). He suggests that we talk tomorrow morning, but I don't know. I just feel like he's making this such a low priority. He says he doesn't think it has anything to do with him...and it's just me having problems committing. I said I'm not sure that he's wrong, but we're in this together so shouldn't we resolve it together. I feel like I've been trying to voice concerns for months now, and he's not hearing me...and then says, "it's always the same thing". Like, yeah, so maybe that's an indication this is a problem.
I'm thinking of telling my mom to postpone sending the rest of the invites (I know it's uber late...but why they didn't go out earlier is another fiasco...). I don't want to make such a decision while so upset, but I'm at a loss. I know he's not trying to hurt me and that he's feeling hurt as well, but if we can't talk about these things, what's going to happen in the future?
I'm really sorry you are having to go through this.
but if we can't talk about these things, what's going to happen in the future?
I think you asked a very good question and when people show you who they are, believe it. If you need to send out invites later and you don't follow etiquette 100% on the invites, then so be it. Take care of you first. I would flat out ask him and see what he has to say.
Also remember that everyone's "normal" is different and that shouldn't make one person less important than the other person.
He says he doesn't think it has anything to do with him...and it's just me having problems committing.
I feel this says a lot...how it's you not him. It takes two to have a relationship and usually more than one person to create issues. It's like he's dodging responsibility.
I said I'm not sure that he's wrong, but we're in this together so shouldn't we resolve it together.
Great phrase fizicsgirl! Would it help you if you went to counseling alone in addition to a couples session?
(((HUGS)))
Thanks everyone...we had a marathon talk last night, but it was really good. It's amazing how much you can misunderstand someone, even while repeating back to them their words (a technique we learned in our premarital counseling). He was honestly shocked that I felt he was judging me all the time and basically telling me I'm not good enough (or my values aren't). When I brought up some examples of things he said that made me feel this way, he couldn't believe that I had interpreted them in that way, or that they had hurt me so much. Like in one particular example I thought he had basically told me I was a snob whereas he was telling me it's that maybe I was being a bit rude/bratty to a person who had no authority (at the airport). The funny thing is, he also misinterpreted my story...but regardless, it's a big difference to ehar that he thinks I'm a snob vs. he thinks it might be rude to approach someone in a certain way. And he's pretty shocked I even still remember that conversation it was so long ago...he had no idea I internalized it so much.
He says he knows he can be critical, and that he sees how he's more so with me b/c we are close. And he wants to work on improving that...b/c he couldn't believe I honestly felt like he was putting me down all the time. He also voiced fears that his values are being trampled on by my family, and that he feels nagged a lot (about housework).
I think these are things that will take conscious behavior changes, but I was actually pretty surprised that he had no clue how genuinely crappy his words made me feel (not just me complaining in the heat of an argument). We talk about a lot of things...but it's amazing how two people can say the same words and mean totally different things. He says I'm the best thing that ever happened to him, and he wants to make sure I know that.
Oh that's great! I've been following along with trials and tribulations in the wedding planning. Having your SO understand you is so important leading up to the wedding and to maintain your relationshilp after the wedding. THis is a great start, just try to keep the conversations going!
That's great! We still struggle with that. What's working lately is letter-writing, because you can't jump into defend yourself while you're reading, you know? We got into a stupid tiff over hurt feelings last night. I walked away, found a paper and pen, and wrote down what I was really upset about ("I'm not upset that you ___, I'm upset that when I mentioned it, you ___."). Then he wrote one back, and we both learned something.
"Oh. That's how it feels to you? Huh."
Good luck, and hugs. Engagement was a big roller coaster for us, and I don't doubt that marriage will be too, but at least the timeline won't be compressed.
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So I've been having some really strong emotions surrounding the way my FI and I have been relating w.r.t. my family and the handling of wealth lately:
http://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/feeling-confusedfi-is-disapproving
We've talked about many of these issues many times, and after some nice words from other bees our pre-marital counseling session last week I was starting to feel a bit better about things. But I'm feeling pretty anxious about it again. Basically, we went to a lovely wedding of a friend of mine this past weekend...and somehow I just felt that it's been a long time since I've felt as relaxed as the bride looked (I'm actually friends with the groom) around my FI. I do feel that he's fairly judgmental of me and my family. It's taken so long, I think, to recognize it as judgment b/c there was always another explanation (and I don't think he's been so strong in expressing his opinions until recently). I thought it was about working out a budget, but I realized that we're actually (very) good at that compared even to couples I know who have been married for a few years. We did have differences, but we worked out a budget together pretty easily. I should also emphasize that my FI is not controlling in any way. It's not in his nature. So he would never tell me that I *can't* do (or buy) something. I'm completely confident that will be the case even if I decide to take time off with kids (something we've discussed at length, so it's not just a feeling, it's what we've talked about). But neither of those things changes the fact that he internally has issues with how I interact with money and wealth, and he occasionally makes that clear.
My parents are pretty well-off...not like billionaires, but decidedly upper middle class. That's the situation I grew up around. His family is not so different in how they lived, except that his dad had a severe gambling problem (he also had an extremely well-paid job so they continued to be able to live a pretty good lifestyle). And so I think my FI has rejected a lot of things having to do with economic status...but in a kind of extreme way. And I just don't want to be judged about my lifestyle...nor do I want to marry someone who might speak negatively about that aspect of me or my parents to our kids. I just don't see that ultimately leading to anything good for either of us.
So we have another session tonight, and we've agreed (I've been travelling for the last 5 days) to really sit down and talk about all of it even after the session if need be. But I'm just not feeling all that confident about the outcome. It seems like this should be a minor thing, but I'm thinking maybe it's not. I feel absurd that it's taken so long for me to identify this issue...I keep telling myself that whatever happens it will be okay. But it's pretty draining.
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