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I have posted on here before, but feel the need for anonymity at the moment. I want to know if my expectations are reasonable or if I need to chill out and give my husband another chance. A little background: I moved into my husband's house on property he owns with his brother and where they also have a business together. My husband lost his business and his original home in a natural disaster and his business isn't doing as well as it could be right now, although all the bills are getting paid and no one is going broke, and won't for a long time, thanks to savings; and things are looking up for his business at the moment with projects coming in.
Now for the problem. I'm currently a full-time student who is paying all her own bills through savings, plus paying my husband's health insurance and buying all household items (groceries, small furniture items, kitchen supplies) in lieu of rent to my husband. Things are getting kinda busy for me with school, and I asked my husband for some help around the house. Not only did he flat out refuse, he told me I "needed to know my place", "start pulling my weight", and that he was sick of the house being filthy and called me "white trash". The house isn't perfect, but it's certainly not at a health and safety getting condemned level, and it's as clean as his mom's house. He specifically mentioned that I leave my hair in the sink, and that I don't always rinse the kitchen sink well enough after washing dishes. I do shed a lot, to the point that I use a lint roller on the bathroom counter and floor daily.
I told him that I wasn't interested in being treated that way and that until he apologized and worked on making our marriage an equal partnership I wouldn't be doing anything around the house other than picking up after myself and making my own food. He responded by saying "an equal partnership is feminist crap". That's been about a month ago, I've been sleeping in the guest room and staying at my parents' a lot. Today I spoke to him and asked him if there was anything he was willing to do to improve our situation, and he said "not under the current circumstances." Apparently that means that I'm supposed to "show some humility, stop being so hotheaded, and if you act childishly when we argue, we won't talk for a week." Apparently being hotheaded and acting childishly means raising my voice and slamming doors. Yes, it's childish, but so is ignoring someone who has some important issues to address. I pointed that out and he said that it was only my opinion that it was childish behavior for him to not talk about important things.
I'm utterly flabbergasted. Before we got married, he assured me that we'd have an equal partnership when I expressed concern about just moving into his house. I had no idea that this was how he thought about me and about marriage. What I'm wondering is do you think that this is based on him having a tough time and taking it out on me, or does he really think those things? Obviously I don't think it would be a good idea to stay married to someone who actually thinks that way, but is it possible that this is just one of those "worse" times and I need to see it through till he regains sanity? And if I do stay, how can I make it clear that this is unacceptable over the long term?
To be honest it doesnt sound THAT bad and it sounds like he is under A LOT of pressure and is taking it out on you. Im sure his business is really stressing him out and with you in school, he might view that as being "easier" than working (not that I believe that). I would maybe get some counselling and seeing if you can both be on the same page.
I'm so sorry that you're going through this.
It's tough to say, but to me if it was just that he was going through a tough time, I would understand one outburst but not the further refusal to work on things. The fact that he continues to stand firm on this makes me think that this is just how he feels.
Have you told him that this is a big enough problem for you that you're thinking of leaving?
Wait a minute--you pay RENT to your HUSBAND???? Are you kidding me? That's obscene.
I had to get that out. I think you should take some time, chill out, and revisit the situation in another week or so. Just go stay at your parents and think about it, talk about it, whatever. Just don't have any contact with him for that week so 1) he can see how much you do around the house and 2) you have time to not be influenced by him and his apparent idiocy. Maybe it's the pressure, but something sounds off here.
I'm sorry you are going through that! I don't really have any advice.. my FI and I split most of the household chores (if something needs to be done, it gets done) except for the garbage... I don't help with that.
I hope you figure out what works best for you. either way.. it doesn't sound like he is treating you/talking to you very nicely.
@MsNarwhal: Seriously? He called her "white trash" and has refused to apologize for that! How could your husband thinking you are trash be not that bad?
See, I dont feel as though anyone should put up with abuse, verbal, physical, emotional or otherwise. The fact that he feels that it is his right to put you down, and tell you to know your place, is a major red flag for me. The fact that this has been going on for a month, is also troublesome.
Also, he is makeing you pay rent? No way in hell would I pay rent to my husband, you're his wife not his roomate!
No one deserves to be treated like that. In my opinion, that's emotional abuse. You are not his slave. You are not his mother. I strongly suggest counseling, but he sounds like the type of guy who would refuse.
I strongly disagree that what he's saying and doing is not that bad. If a man told me to "know my place" and "equal partnership is feminist crap" I would be out the door in a minute. Yes, being under stress can make people say and do unreasonable things, but it doesn't turn someone into a misogynistic jerk if they aren't that way already.
I've asked him to go to counseling, either for marriage counseling or individually, and he's refused. He said he didn't think it would do any good. We've been before about an issue we disagreed on and he refused to go back. We have a prenup in place to protect his property and business in the event we divorce, which I'm fine with (hey, I didn't earn it) but the problem was that he wanted to build a new house on his property for us to live in and wanted me to live there and contribute to it, but didn't want to adjust the prenup to reflect that. If we divorce after I help build the house, all I can do is leave like I'm a renter. If something happens to my husband, his brother inherits the house (the prenup disinherited me too, as the property is part of my husband's and brother-in-law's business). He agreed to the changes in counseling, but then refused to take action on it or talk about it after we left. After a few months, I told him that I'd drop it until we actually got to the point where we were building the house, which is still some time away.
Your husband is being an jerk. It's hard to tell from your post whether it's just the stress or if he actually is an jerk. I think the two of you need to completely cool off, then sit down and have a calm conversation about sources of stress and your expectations for the marriage.
ETA: Based on your update, he sounds like a manipulator. It seems like he will tell you what you want to hear on tough issues to avoid arguing. I wouldn't be surprised if he never had any intention of having an "equal partnership"
@Op... I am not sure that i would be ok with that. if you had children and his brother-in-law decided to be an ass, he could kick you and your kids out on the street. I am SO not ok with this...
Edit: how long ago were you in councling for? Is this behavior that has started off small and esclated or is it all of a sudden?
@NeedALittleHelp: It sounds like he's been being a jerk for longer than just recently. I think it might just be his personality and you would be wise to get out before you start building that house.
You had me at "know your place..." Oh, hell no! That is not okay no matter how much stress he is going through. Marriage is a partnership! I'd take some time away and revisit the subject one last time to let him apologize. If he doesn't immediately retract his words and change his tune, it's not worth it. Do you want to deal with this for the rest of your life?
It sounds like you guys need to go through some marriage counseling. Marriage is an equal partnership and that's not "feminist crap." He is being disrespectful and emotionally abusive. Not only that, but he misrepresented his ideals to you when you were engaged but now his actions speak louder than words. He called you white trash for not keeping the house clean enough? There's nothing okay about that. I understand that work and finances can bring a lot of stress, but there is absolutely no excuse for putting down your significant other. You are not an emotional punching bag. During tough times like these you need to stick together and support each other, not put each other down. And that business of you sleeping in the guest room? That speaks volumes about the state of your marriage, which sounds more like a roommate situation than a lifelong commitment.
Get help, and if things don't get better, I would get out. Life is too short for things like this.
Hell no. Saying that to you is unacceptable.. He has savings, bills are paid, I don't buy the stress bullshit. How long have you been married? I think he just waited a fair amount of time to reel you in and show his true colors.
Oh, and which is it that he wants?? If he doesnt believe in this feminist crap, I'd gently remind him of the day before that then, when the man was able to support the house hold and women didnt have to work. Well, what does he want then?? If he doesnt want to believe in it, he should be man enough to support the house hold instead of having you buy groceries and stuff for the house just cause youre not paying rent?? Why would the word RENT even come up in a marriage. Dont put a dime into building a new house with him without legal protection if you get to that point... This guy just doesnt sound like good news.
Persoanally, I would be out the door. Stress or not, no man has the right to call his wife white trash and tell her she is not pulling her own weight. I assume you are going to school full-time for the betterment of both your lives. It is obvious he is not supportive of your goals or in maintaining an equal relationship. I am certainly not telling you what to do but his attitude is mighty disturbing and I would be telling him adios!
{content removed for baiting, profanity}
What kind of person says this isn't that bad?!
She's being verbally abused!!!!
You pay RENT to your HUSBAND?! You are called names? You are expected to know your role and stay in it?! And, you are paying for everything (if we are talking traditional roles, that isn't it.)
I fight for marriage of all kinds and think people should work through whatever they can. But, I only believe this for a healthy happy relationship where both partners are equally involved with making it work.
I would absolutely leave this man, he has no respect for you.
If he continues to refuse to work on the problem(s) or to even communicate with you, I would start making the necessary moves to leave both him and the house.
@Lemma: It sounds like there is more going on here than the OP posted. Perhaps they had words with one another and he said things he didnt mean. Honestly, we just dont know. But to get divorced over your husband getting into an argument with you and calling you a name seems extreme and it seems like its something that could be benefitted by some therapy.
I can understand that if you havent' merged finances that you would be responsible for some bills and he responsible for others - i.e. in lieu of rent, as some other people were questioning this type of arrangement.
That aside, please seek counselling. Even if your husband refuses to go, at least you can go, where you can air a more detailed account of what's going on.
What are your parents/family/friends saying? If you're staying over at your family's they must have some sort idea of what's going on and can offer help.
Stay strong!!
@andilovesjosh: Finally someone caught it! I was wondering if people were just skipping that line, because I almost think that one of the worst things in this whole thing. Big red flag....
@andilovesjosh: Also, no need to jump down my throat honey. Your post comes off as an attack towards me and I dont appreciate it.
Like from day one was that your agreement-your to pay "rent" to him or is this a husband and wife working together so to speak after the natural disaster destruction?
msfahrenheit: things do seem to have slowly gotten worse and I agree with you that he may be a manipulator who just tells me what I want to hear.
I'm a college graduate who is back in undergraduate school to pick up prerequisites for medical school. My husband has told me that if I become a doctor, then maybe I'd be worthy of having an equal partnership and then I can hire a maid :-p First off, basing my worth in our marriage off my job and/or income is crap. Secondly, I feel he's just baiting me along and he'll come up with some other reason to deny me equality. I am working part-time right now and it isn't bringing in a ton of money, but it's not like he's having to support me.
MsNarwhal: I really appreciate your advice that maybe things aren't as bad as they sound, and no I haven't been perfect. The house gets cluttered, I slam doors when my husband and I argue, and I leave a trail of shedded hair around the house :-p However, my husband isn't perfect either. He leaves the milk out of the refrigerator till it sours, won't close cabinet doors or drawers, and makes plans without letting me know till the last minute. But I've never called him names about these problems, and I've never thought these issues made me better than him. I think that's the difference.
MsNarwhal: Don't be ridiculous. While I'm shocked that anyone would say this doesn't sound that bad, it's not about you. Let's redirect the focus back on the OP who is looking for help.
Mrs.Argentina: We got married 5 years after the natural disaster occurred. When we married, I offered to pay for those items so I wouldn't feel like I was taking advantage of him. We never really even discussed it, and he's never asked me to pay for anything (just to clarify). He obviously still feels taken advantage of though, when he's telling me that I'm not pulling my weight. I feel like if he wanted me to do all the housework in exchange for living there "under his roof", as he's put it, he should say so and we should have an open discussion about his expectations of me. He's refused to talk about it and says I should just know what's expected of me, which is truly frustrating and is part of what leads me to think he's being manipulative.
I am worried for what will happen to you in the future, esp if/when you have children.
He is showing you no respect through his expectations of your roles around the house, through the names he is calling you, through leaving an arguement unresolved for a week, for not willing to seek help to fix it and through asking you to financially contribute but then exclude you from any entitlements.
Why should you do all the housework when you are both working (study is work) and you are also financially contributing.
Are you really going to keep paying him money to help him pay off a farm you are never entitled to?????
He is being a bully and is manipulating and controling you.
It is when things are difficult that their true colours come out, not when everything is going swimingly.
You have been given a break, in that you have seen how mean he can be before you have become locked in with children or waste any more of your time. Please take it and LEAVE!!!!
Sounds like money stress is making him act COMPLETELY inappropriately. I am sorry you are dealing with this.
Our biggest fight ever was over money right after my then bf lost his biggest client. What I learned from that experience is that a lot of his self worth as a man is tied up in his business/work, and the perception that he can take care of me. Whenever he starts to get "weird on me" and act like a Diva, I know there is some insecurity about money going on. Especially since we are very into splitting chores and household duties equitably, it is quite shocking how a few slow months at work and he is suddenly throwing a hissy fit about not wanting to "stay home and do housework" even if he does suddenly have a lot of time on his hands.
Sounds like your DH is going through a lot with the business. If his stuff was wiped out in a natural disaster, he should have access to counseling via either FEMA or the state assistance program. You might consider talking to them about what services are available and see if he can't go talk to them, or secure additional assistance if he needs it. Maybe you could consider going and talking to him.
The fact that it has been a month suggests he is depressed or upset enough about other things. No one lets a relationship tiff run that long without a lot of other things involved.
If counseling doesn't sound like it would be a possibility, go the library and get some of Suze Orman's books. She does a lot of writing around the emotional connections and issues we have related to money, and her books may give you a better perspective on what is going on, even if what is happening is totally inappropriate.
Finally, the fact that you are a student and contribute in kind rather than through a paycheck may also produce a unique source of stress--though I totally support your finishing school. I am also a student, and while my DH and I have combined incomes, accounts, etc. I think there is a part of him that sometimes wishes I could contribute more. Sorry, that is the price of going to school, though when things get really tough financially it can be hard to accept. I work a job on the side and that has helped take some of the pressure off of both of us, while also giving me good skills for my resume that I think will lead to my new job when I am done.
Finally, and I am sorry this is so long, even if you figure out what is going on, naming it doesn't always help. My girlfriend and I totally have DH pegged, but when I told him once "I think you are acting like this because you are insecure about money and work" he got completely offended and denied it. So now I just go "uh huh" silently in my head and nod. I can totally predict and understand, so I don't really need to have his confirmation to get right at the root of the problem. I then reorient him to the amount we have in savings, how much I am getting paid, and point out how at the end of every year things tend to turn out pretty stable income wise, so it might not be regular but it will come in.
Good luck. I hope you are doing ok.
@andilovesjosh: Try reading TOS before you flip out on someone on the boards. We try to not be snarky/rude to other posters here.
@NeedALittleHelp: It sounds like you are way in over your head. If he is unwilling to negociate on these issues or seek help for problems that you find inappropriate and that make your life hell, then I would indeed leave. It is no ones "place" to clean, cook, ext unless it is something that you WANT to do. This isnt 1950, and your DH really needs a reality check. Whether or not he will ever see that his viewpoints are totally messed up is another matter.
MsNarwhal: Once again, it isn't about you. It was shock. The whole thing is shocking.
When you see your name in front of a post, you'll know it's directed at you.
AND AGAIN, let's direct our attention and effort to the OP who is looking for help.
simpleandchic: you're right. In a way I'm grateful he's become so blatantly disrespectful, otherwise I'd have been strung along for years.
My parents are completely against divorce and have a pretty traditional marriage, yet have offered to let me live with them as long as I need to (hopefully not too long!)
One of the things that's kept me from leaving is that I believe that if you divorce and remarry, you're just trading one set of problems for another. With all these Bees obviously expecting to be treated with respect and dignity in marriage, trading this problem in for another one would be a relief! To have a husband who isn't perfect, and maybe doesn't work on everything is ok. To have a husband who denigrates you and thinks he deserves perfection in you but refuses to work on his own problems or treat you with respect is not.
I'm glad to have the outside opinions. My husband is pretty good at making me feel like I'm crazy and that I'm unrealistic. I am in individual counseling at the moment, and I'm planning to change the focus to how to avoid getting in a relationship like this in the first place. Knowing that there are good, respectful relationships out there makes me realize that I'm not crazy. Thank you all!!
@NeedALittleHelp: He's refused to talk about it and says I should just know what's expected of me
He's really not giving you any options. By refusing to talk to you about it, he's telling you that your choices are either accept living 100% on his terms or leave. Even if you do accept his perspective and stay with him, what do you think will happen when some other problem comes up in your marriage?
Sorry I just read all the comments. If you are serious about going to medical school and wanting to be a doctor, this is not the relationship you need to be in. He will tear you down the entire time. Med school costs major $$$$, time, and produces boat loads of debt. There is no way he won't get way worse.
Move in with your parents to finish school.
If hes normally an oustanding guy and has always treated you well and you are totally in shock, I would say its situational and you are seeing the scary side of what stress and status loss can do. Hes projecting and doing low blows.
If he has always had ilack of respect, douchery and you have been feeling life there is something better for you out there, then I say leave and don't look back!
@NeedALittleHelp: plus paying my husband's health insurance and buying all household items (groceries, small furniture items, kitchen supplies) in lieu of rent to my husband
Why would you pay rent to your husband? I can see you paying for a portion of household expenses, but that has nothing to do with rent does it? Or is it like either he'd like you to pay for these things or contribute some money to help him pay for it? I'm just so confused by that comment. You guys also argue about when you will earn "equality", which is a very vague term. Have you told him specifically what "equality" means to you? Because you didn't really clarify it in your post. Maybe a little more communication would help? Was he a strong believer in traditional gender roles before you married? An "equal partnership" might mean something different to him.
He shouldn't be saying these mean things to you, but as you said you slam doors and yell and arguments escalate. If you want to leave him, leave him, but you could also try counseling. It sounds like you both do and say things that are childish during arguments. This is going to be blunt but you need to make up your mind. Going to your mom's then going back home all the time is just not the way to go about this. If you want to leave for a while and get some counseling then do that, but don't pull people into it then go back to your husband over and over. Good luck.
If you stay with him, I will only feel sorry for the future children you may have. I'm not saying divorce, but I'm saying that you need to be away from him until he collects himself and spotlights on the disrespect he has for you.
The last thing I would want is a daughter who is okay with any sort of abuse or a son who treats women like garbage all because they saw mom put up with dad's crap.
Leave him and be free. Sounds like you can do perfectly well on your own! You aren't his mother. Good luck! :)
Yeah. He doesn't want a wife. He wants a maid and a piece of ass. You're better than that and you don't have to put up with the way he has treated you.
@helenberrycrunch: I wish there was a like button!
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