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So this isn't a discussion about abortions being okay or not, so please, be nice. We all have different views.
I was in an interesting discussion with another friend about is the father's role/choice in an abortion. Assuming that the abortion is legal, what rights should the father of the fetus have in making the decisoin? The context was a friend (male) who (admittedly stupidly) knocked up a only ish girlfriend who went on to have an abortion, totally against his wishes. He wanted to either help raise the child or to give it up for adoption. So I am just curious, despite your views on the right/wrongness of abortion over all, what rights should the father have? Especially in relation to keep the fetus from being aborted?
a husband/boyfriend/lover can tell a woman not to get one all he wants but in the end it is her body and is her decision. there are laws for fathers in that situation but it changes state to state. i personally dont believe in abortion but im already a mom and thinking if i had givin up my daughter for any reason who have hurt me emotionally in the long run.
I have always been asking the same question you did. My FH asked me (and I had no answer), why is it that a man has no say in abortion, but if he wants her to have one and she doesn't, how come he has to pay child support?
Thats a really tricky question. I believe that a woman has the right to choose what happens to her body and that forcing someone to continue/not continue a pregnancy against her wishes is wrong. Therefore I feel that any rights the father may have in regards to what happens to the fetus he helped create are kind of second to that first right...
That said, I would hope that in a perfect world both parents would come to an agreement about what was to happen before making any decisions.....
I feel like it's ultimately the mother's choice. Does that mean she should run out and get an abortion without having a conversation about it with the father? Probably not, but that also depends on the situation and dynamic of that particular relationship.
Say a girl has a one night stand...and ends up pregnant. Does she have to contact the father before she decides to abort? I don't think so.
If said girl is in a relationship and has an unexpected preganancy that's a different story. She should definitely talk it out with her SO/FI/whatever and TRY to come to a mutual decision.
But like I said, in the end her body, her choice.
Its actually a huge issue my FI has. How I try to explain my view point, is until in a perfect world, and a man can carry the baby himself, he should not have LEGAL rights to what a woman does to her body. Its not a decision I would make, but a decision I believe in choice. Morally I would hope a woman would at lest take to heart the fathers opinion, but legally her choice.
Easy, it's the woman's fetus but both of their child. Therefore the man has no say in what happens to the fetus, but has responsibility for the child.
FI and I have had this conversation (not because we've ever been in the situation or anything but just in general). He feels that the man should have rights to the fetus since it's his child to. I get that but until said fetus can grow in that mans body or outside of the womans, the sole decision should be left to the person carrying it. I'm pro-choice and I don't believe that anyone should be able to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her own body. Does it suck for the man who may want to raise that child? Absolutely, but it still doesn't make it his decision.
What I do not get is that if the man has no choice in the matter at all...... why he gets the joy and pleasure of paying for 18 years for a choice he didn't get to partake in.
I realize the easy answer is " Oh well he didn't use protection so he made a choice".. but that really doesn't hold water at all. She gets to completely choose something that effects the two of them for the rest of their lives.
I think this is one of those things that will never really be fair to both parties. Women are the ones that carry the fetus, and with that comes rights and responsibilities.
Women have (or should have, in my opinion) the right to decide whether to become pregnant- through access to reliable contraception, stay pregnant- though access to affordable quality healthcare, or not- through access to safe abortion services.
But women also have responsibilities that come with those rights, such as correctly using contraception to increase the chance it will be effective, and by not using abortion as a 'oops, I couldn't be bothered using contraception' backup. And if choosing to have the child, to take care of it to the best of their ability, or place it up for adoption for other parents who are prepared to.
Men have the responsibility to participate in using contraception to avoid pregnancy, and to support any child that is theirs. They have the right to be involved in the childs life if they are paying child support (as long as they arent a danger to the child of course). So yes, Men do lose out, they have less rights, but also less responsibilities.
It is definately a tricky situation, and one I wouldn't wish on anyone, but until men can get pregnant, or we have some way to transfer fetuses into artificial wombs, ultimately its the womans choice.
(all in my opinion of course, very interesting thread! Lets hope it stays civil!)
I just told tksjewelry. It makes sense. Woman takes care of fetus, Both woman and man take care of child.
Life's not fair, but you can't have men forcing woman to have abortions and you can't very well have them not responsible, that would make the whole thing even more messy.
It should be the woman's choice. Not only does she have to carry the baby for 9 months, which greatly affects her, but she then has to mother the child for the rest of her life. This is a commitment some women are not willing or capable of making, and shouldn't be forced to make. Abortion does not just end a pregnancy; it ends a future as a MOTHER, which is a huge responsibility no one should undertake if they're not ready. No matter how good a father a man is, the bulk of the parenting and raising will always fall to the mother. That is just how it goes. And if a woman is not ready to take up that mantle, or is in no position to do so, she shouldn't.
I know this gets theological, but biologically speaking, if you abort early enough, there is no "body." There's just a collection of cells.
If he wants to have all rights signed over to him (if the woman does not want said child) and is willing to be a full time single dad that's one thing.
If he only wants part time "ownership" in a child when its convenient for him then he gets no say IMPO.
Even with this said I am not 100% for the first part of my statement since the man doesn't have a fetus living in him for 9 months, go thru labor, or post birth hormonal issues.
I don't agree with abortion... but I do agree with tksjewelry, if a man wants the woman to get an abortion and she doesn't, he shouldn't be stuck with child support (nor should he have any parental rights to the child).
Husband has say, boyfriend does not.
That's my bare bones opinion. If he is not that commited to me, he gets no say. If he's my husband and we're deciding, it is OUR decision, not mine.
But that's also my opinion with a whole lot of other issues.
I think it is a no brainer why men have little to no legal say in if a woman get an abortion.....a man can WALK AWAY from paying child support for a week, a month....yet the mom STILL HAS to feed/shelter the child! Yes, "supposedly" the gov forces men to pay child support....but the system is extremely flawed!
I get that it would always be nice to talk to the guy before making any decisions, but in the end, its a hell of a lot easier for a guy to just "walk away" from the situation. And history has shown men to do just that. Until we get a better system in place for accountability, sorry - a guy has no right to tell me to have a baby or not.
I've been in this situation .. somewhat.
I got preggers by someone who I had only been seeing a short time but had already been a friend up until then. We used a condom but it broke.
I was 17 and am VERY Pro-choice so an abortion was never with even a shadow of a doubt in my mind.
But... I did sit down and tell him what the situation was and asked him if he had fertility problems of any sort that he knew of, or if he wanted to be tested just to make sure this baby wasn't a fluke for him. Because the last thing I would want would be to abort his only chance for a child should that be the case. I told him if he wanted me to have the baby I would basically surrogate for him. He would then have all rights and resposibilities signed over to him and I wanted nothing to do with the baby.
he readily said he had no problems and to proceed with the abortion, but in a case like mine, if he had just not wanted me to for moral reasons, I wouldn't even give him a second of his time. It's my body.
@Rock Hugger - A woman can walk away too if she doesn't want the baby. Not at any time during its life, but during the first couple months she can put it up for adoption. Or if she doesn't want to deal with the adoption agencies, there are locations that are "infant safe havens", such as hospitals and fire stations, where a woman can drop off a newborn with no questions asked.
If the system is flawed, we need to fix the flaw, not continue to make an even more flawed system to try to compensate.
If the fetus is "just cells" so it's okay to abort it, than it really doesn't matter who the sperm donor was, it's "just cells". It can't be legally "just cells" for the woman and "a baby/child" for the man, it's got to be either one or the other for both.
It's one of those things that I think is blatantly unfair to guys. Let's say you want her to have a kid, you can't really force her to have the kid. On the other hand, you can't force her to NOT have the kid if she wants to have it. You can't force her into an abortion and if she does have the kid, you are on the hook for 18 years (sometimes more!). I do believe guys should have a say, boyfriend or husband. I don't think it should matter.
I think its up to the woman , as its her life, her body, you know. I mean let's say you're in school or a medicial residency or something, even if you give it up for adoption you've LOST time. The role of father's in general is less than that of the mother, which is why even with an involved father, her life will still most likely be affected more (again why she has a bigger say). I think that the more serious yoru relationship (i.e. hook-up vs BF vs FI vs husband) that the father probably will have a greater say as the woman will take his opinon more into account. But it is still up to the woman to make the choice to decide how much his opinions matter.
@ellabee: This I totally agree with. Many men just walk away and many women never pursue or receive any kind of child support, ever. Many men know or learn how to work the system so they can never be found, or work for cash so that no one can do a wage attachment, and sole responsibility falls on the woman for her choice. Not all men have a conscience, so I don't believe for a minute that they 'have' to pay child support for an unwanted child, as each situation is different.
Well most everyone on this Bee board knows that I had an abortion. My FI's role in it was largely ignored by me. I wanted an abortion at the time and he had no choice but to support my decision. He felt morally and religiously wrong about it, however he respected my decision and understood my point of view that keeping the fetus was simply not the choice for me. I was struggling from all ends of the spectrum, and so was he. I mean not just financially, but emotionally as well. Money comes and goes... sure, but emotional unstability is a bad place to bring a child.
He would have liked to keep the child and basically have a shotgun wedding, but with no realistic means of being able to support the child mentally or financially. Once he understood that part, he was okay with my decision.
I think there should be something for him to hand over his rights tothe child if he wants her to get an abortion and she doesn't. I really doubt if men could carry babies some way in the future, they REALLY would carry the babies. I really doubt it.
@abbyful - I think that is a great response but for the wrong argument - if a woman wanted to have a baby then changed her mind, or wanted other options other than abortion, then yes - I agree with you in that there are other avenues for women too. But the OP was pretty clear that she wanted this thread to NOT be about abortion itself but rather the father's "rights" to the fetus.
I guess this depends on a case by case situation. I think the male has no say at all if it was rape or something of that nature. I feel if you are married.. They should have some say bc at that point you are in a union where you have decided to share your lives together. I get the whole its her body her choice thing... But the child in question has two parents not just one, and If the woman is not raped, or there is no medical need for an abortion for physical reasons to the mother, and the father isnt "unfit" I think there should be some say there.
I just wanted to add, if you're interested, that there is currently a case that deals with this:
I don't think the man should have any say. He doesn't not have to endure the risks, discomfort, pain, etc of pregnany and labor. He doesn't have to have the responsibilty of carrying the child around for 9 months. He doesn't have the emotional pain of giving that child you've carried for 9 months up for adoption. He therefore can't force a woman to do these things.
IMO, he made his choice when he chose to have sex.
(Granted, I also feel that a woman made her choice when she chose to have sex so therefore - except for rape, incest, medical risk to the mother, etc - she should also not be considering abortion. But that's for a different thread).
I think the father should have a part in the decision making process. Yes, it's my body, but it would also be his child too. I don't feel anyone has the right to terminate someone else's child, which is exactly what would be happening if a pregnancy was aborted against the father's wishes.
I do think that both the woman and the man should legally have to be in agreement. If they can not agree then the person who wants to keep the child then should be soley responsible.
An ex-boyfriend of mine had a previous gf that had an abortion against his wishes. They had been together for awhile and he was really happy to hear the news... could've easily taken care of any expense and despite his pleading with her... even offering to totally raise the child without her is she didn't want it... she had an abortion. YEARS later he's stilled cried thinking about the child that he had no say in.
I think if society if going to give the mother rights to decide that then the father should have rights as well. It's just as much his child has hers.
I agree with most, my body, my decision. Of course since I'm married, my husband would have a say, but ultimately, I have the final say. We have discussed this at length, and he is fine with that.
But, i do also agree that if a man makes it clear he wants nothing to do with that child, and terminates his rights as a parent, then the mother can not go after him for child support if she chooses to have the baby. If a man goes to the trouble of terminating rights, he obviously shouldn't have the burden of caring for a child he doesn't want
Personally, I think that if the father wants to keep the baby then the mother should have the baby and give full custody to the Father. But I do not believe in killing a nother person, especially a baby! If you didn't want a baby you should have had sex. Don't a innocent baby for your mistake of having sex.
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