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In general - they're just like uh, women ... minus the "wo" I think. Honestly - most of my friends are guys and I find they're usually more trustworthy and honest than girls I hang out with are.
My Grandmother on the other hand would totally say "Men Suck!" The first time she met Loverboy she went on and on about how much they sucked and all about her husband, the womanizer ... ugh.
So, I guess alot of it is perception. Sometimes men suck. But sometimes women suck, too!
I like men, I'd prefer to hang out with them as buddies insead of with a bunch of girl friends. It's just easier for me to be around guys than girls. I'm very happy with mine who is my best buddy with lots o' benefits.
There are a lot of sucky men, I must say..but a lot of great ones as well (my FI is included in that list)
However sometimes I get so insanely angry at all men...just because of stuff I see on TV...bad stuff. It seems like 95% of horrible things that happen in this world, in history, nowadays, is due to the male population. You gotta admit its true.
Of course men suck.
Women do too.
I think it is people in general that are flawed but you know when you have a woman in here who is devastated by a guy who is suppose to cherish and love her. A <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">nice general statement to make is "men suck" so she knows that she isn't alone out there. Because sometimes they do. No intentional male bashing involved. It just hard not to lump every bad male together. Especially since everyone here I am sure knows someone (or personally) was devastated by a guy.
I don't think men are any more or any less trustworthy than anyone else. I dated a few untrustworthy men but I also dated some really great guys that just weren't the guys for me. And there are a lot of woman that are very untrustworthy. I think we just hear about the bad guys more here because there are so very many women on WB and so very little men.
I think men are as trustworthy as women. I know a lot of women that treat men like dirt, so saying that men suck or men are pigs does not mean women are above reproach in the respect department!
I do think men get a bad rap, but I think some of it is due to truth/facts. There are lots of bees who post asking for advice about including absentee fathers in their weddings- much fewer brides post about moms who are out of the picture (more often the problem is that the mom is in the picture!).
While interpersonal relationships are always a challenge, I think it's unfair to place the blame solely on either gender.
some men suck, but others are adorable great and fun and strong and silent and sexy and overprotective and smell so intoxicating (okay maybe that's just m)... lol! seriously one bad relationship doesn't define them all, i mean if they did my God i would never be here... i mean i have had three botched engagements and zero weddings/marriages (i feel like i'm holding a score card or something like that) engagements 3 weddings/marriages 0
I find sexism from either side offensive. My two favorite people -- the love of my life and my best platonic friend -- are both are men. They're the smartest, kindest, funniest, most honorable people I know. I trust them implicitly.
Some people suck -- gender is irrevelant.
You know, I agree with you, Mr. Bee. I think that men get a bad rep sometimes and people generalize the crappy behavior of some guys with the entire gender. I think men are just like women--there are some great ones and not so great ones. I know that the men in my life (my husband, brother, FIL, cousins, friends) are all excellent examples of wonderful people, not just wonderful men.
I also think part of the reason why we hear more about crappy men is because women are just more verbal than men. We are more like to talk and talk and talk about our experiences than men are.
I think that a lot of people suck in general :)
Sometimes people throw around the "men suck" thing though not being so serious... but just about some annoying habits most men have. For example (cue the stereotypes), a lot of men have trouble expressing emotion, may hurt our feelings without realizing it, miss an anniversary, etc. So when someone posts because her fi inadvertently missed her birthday... we can explain it that way "don't worry about it... men just suck, they still love you" lol.
I don't think that most people here are genuine men-haters!
I can honestly say, and this may sound weird, but men are less likely to be backstabbers - most definitely! I don't hate men in general - I dislike some things they do, but I also dislike some things women do too, sooo I guess that makes it even. As for the 'backstabbing' - women are much more likely to be catty, passive aggressive and well, backstabbing... whereas men are much more likely to come out and say whatever they are thinking (good, bad or ugly).
Regardless of generalizations (which I do not like and are rare from me), I love Mr. Luna with all I've got :) Always have, always will. That isn't to say he doesn't have his quirks! (but I know I do too). :)
-Bella
I think when people say "men suck" it might be short hand for "I don't understand that man (or men)"...
When I was in college, most of my really good friends were guys. I've gained a deep appreciation for the women in my life and can't imagine a day without them... but I also have a deep appreciation for my men friends and what they've taught me. I knew nothing of blind loyalty until I became close with guys. I try to emulate that same loyalty with my girlfriends as well!
This is a great topic!
Men are awesome! I think neither gender corners the market on the good or the bad characteristics of being human.
Frankly, when relationship problems happen it's soooo much easier to alleviate blame from both yourself and the person you love by pointing the finger at the gender, than to look inward or at each other as people to see and address the REAL root of the problem. That's why we placate ourselves and each other with gender-based generalizations....the problem isn't US, it's THEM.
Both genders do this all the time. If we'd all just remember and focus on the ways in which we're the same and forget how we're different, relationships would go so much smoother in a lot of ways, I think.
I've actually always preferred to spend my time with men over women. I find that men are so much more low-key and way easier to get along with! I've never gotten along with women very well, haha.
hahaha oh poor mr bee! i happen to love men, well, mine at least ;)
i think it feels kind of like its an obligation we have as women to tell other women that men suck to make them feel better about their own disdain for the opposite sex after they have been mistreated. i've said it to my girls when they needed it, because i certainly couldn't be like "oh yeah, he does suck, but not all men suck, my fiance is great!" it wold feel kind of callous. but yes, i believe in general men are ok people.
i was telling my 16yr neice today that all boys (she 16 so its boys not men) are stupid and for the age group we are talking about i think its true, they are emotionally stunted at that age although there are some wonderful males at that age they are overshadowed by the majority
ordinarily i would say my hubby is a witty, intelligent and confident male that is sensitive but then you take him to a rugby game or car show and suddenly hes "a guy".... where did this "guy" come from i wonder because hes not the sensitive man i married
my girfriend once bitched about all the men she was seeing and how they all sucked and they were all bad guys.... took me a while to convince her but at that time of her life she was selecting the same type of guy to go out with and yes they were all immature and selfish. Once she broke out of the habit of choosing the same type of guys to go out with she found there was alot of nice guys out there that dont suck
I'm guilty of saying it! It's generally when a guy was a jerk and it's just something to say to other women to make them feel better. Obviously women suck sometimes too, but these are moments like, as DG said, we just don't understand why a guy did something (or didn't do something).
Well... the men who are cheating are cheating with someone... usually a woman! So, are men less trustworthy? No. Some people are just a-holes, but luckily many are not.
Good post Mr. Bee! I would be frustrated if I were you too. I think some of it is a "lack of understanding" of the opposite sex (even though we are often marrying them). But my personal philosophy is that sexism is no good from either side (as Pink said).
I like Mrs. Mouse's post - people are people. And each person is different. Some men I like, some women I like, but some I just don't mesh with.
I think a lot of the reactions of 'men suck' come from the fact that most women have been hurt at some point by a man -- so we can relate to pain! For me, my ex was a real charmer, but turned out to be a real jerk. He abused me, cheated on me (twice, because I was dumb enough to take him back after the first time), lied to and about me, and used me for money. And after I finally got up the nerve to leave him, he stalked me, made me feel guilty, and threatened me.
I KNOW not all guys are that way, but the fact is, I also know he's not the only jerk out there.
My J, on the other hand, is an amazing man, and I've known a lot of other amazing men, so of course there are a fair share of men who are amazing.
That said, I agree with the majority of others -- women have JUST as much potential to be jerks too.
I don't think that ALL men suck... I think if this site were for men who were getting married (and those men talked the way we do which is highly unlikely) you would see a lot of "women suck" posts in relation to those men who were writing about being hurt by women. We can (for the most part) all relate to having dated the cheaters, the psycho stalkers, the looking for a free meal, or only interested in one thing guy. Just like many guys have dated girls with those personalities. In my personal opinion everyone of those guys (at least I hope) will some day change his act and be some girl's prince charming....
Love this thread!
I think, like most posters have said, that men and women, alike, can suck!
Have i run into a few men in my life I wish i hadn't? Sure. Have I run into just as many women that sucked? Absolutely.
The choices we make about who we hang out with/ befriend / date - all play a part in how we feel about other people. Sometimes we don't get the choice and the sucky people in our lives are family, co-workers, etc.
So in general - I like men - in fact, I want nothing more in the world than to be married to mine. :)
I try to remember that I can't change people who are sucky, but I can change how I react to them.
I was thinking the exact same thing as Mrs. DG as I was reading through the comments. I don't think it's as much about being trustworthy as not understanding their ways of communicating. Example: I was feeling down and wasn't sure that I wanted to make the drive to see Lambster. He told me that I would miss me, but understood if I needed personal time. I was mad and most def. thought, "He's being really sucky right now." I wanted him to say, "I want you, I need, Oh baby, oh baby." Then I thought it over and talked it over with a friend. I realized he was trying to show that he cared about me, trying to be understanding. We both really wanted to see each other, but had a hard time communicating that.
I certainly don't think men suck any worse than women. Men are less complicated than women, which is generally better, IMO. They're easier to read. They're not over analyzing things, getting themselves worked up. I think the biggest issues facing men, (in relating to women) is that they are socialized to not want to get married, and are more driven by sex, than women. So often times I think women can be hurt (particularly on WB) by men who:
I find women to be overcomplicated. I think a lot of times they make mountains out of molehills. Instead of just saying "Hey you're cute. Want to go out?" They have to sit there and think about, for three months, whether or not the guy likes them. "Well he does this...He wouldn't do that if he didn't like me, right? But then he did that, which threw me for a loop. So I don't know." And while women are better at communicating in a way. (They pick up on subtle details and want to figure out problems more readily). They also are socialized to not rock the boat, to not hurt people's feelings. So it can be difficult for women to express how they feel if they are upset. And then end up creating bigger problems down the road.
I don't think it's that men are more or less trustworthy as people. I think there are huge differences in how we are socialized, and our human nature. As much as men try to avoid settling down, women try to achieve it. They say men don't think about marriage until they meet their wife. However, women think about marriage playing dress up in their bedrooms at age 5. So it can be a struggle when the two clash.
I think it's just something that we ladies like to say each other whenever a man messes up and we don't really understand why. I don't think most of us, who are in happy relationships, really feel that 'men suck.' ;) Personally, when I get disappointed in people, I tend to feel that people in general are the sucky ones, not one gender in particular.
I think mean people suck. Either male or female! It's what you do to others/how you treat people imho. There are plenty of women out there who suck too, not distinctly gender specific imho or only guys. If a guy cheats on his girl sure that sucks, but the woman he cheated with? Imho she is just as sucky as he is!
So true, MrBee. I think it's kind of sad when someone writes off half the human race by saying all men suck. When my friends have said it, it's when they've been disappointed by a man and still want to find a different one! Why would a man be attracted to a woman who's busy claiming that all men suck? Um, does not compute. It's a coping mechanism, sure, but it's mean and untrue.
To be perfectly honest, I have always gotten along better with men than women. I only have three female friends (although many female acquaintances) and all three were in my wedding. I have been told often that my attitudes are more male than female, whatever that means,
That phrase always makes me so, so sad. I honestly think men get a bad rap of being mean or cheaters, but people forget that it takes two to tango -that woman he cheated with is equally responsible if she knows about the girlfriend/wife.
I think men as a rule are not so much mean as totally clueless. Because we take it personally, we perceive it as mean. They don't mean to be thoughtless, they just aren't paying enough attention.
Women are the far nastier of the sexes; I've had WAY more trouble with girl drama than male drama by FAR. All through high school, college, and even right now at work, there's always some girl trying to be the "Queen Bee" and make everyone else's lives miserable. Read Queen Bees and Wannabes, it's a really great book (and the basis of Mean Girls!) and makes you realize that some girls never really leave high school behind.
I think what might happen is people tend to focus on what someone did WRONG...therefore stating that Men Suck/Women Suck. Notice how not many people focus on the good most of the time.
I love being around men. I'd much rather hang out with a group of guys then a group of women. They tell you like it is and typically don't pull that caddy bullsh*t.
If you've ever read the book, "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus" it is SO ON THE MONEY. It's an interesting read if anything at all.
I for one know their are all types of men. I love my fiancee and my gay guy friends and in general i have tons of nice guy friends but i am also aware that not all guys are nice and some of them are rude, arogant and use women.
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Sometimes I get bummed when there's a post asking for advice about a guy... and a number of the comments focus on how guys suck and how they're all cheaters or whatever.
That kinda surprises me, since I figure a decent percentage of Weddingbee readers have just pledged to spend the rest of their lives with a man! But maybe those guys are the exception to the rule. :-)
So I thought I'd throw it out there... what do you think of men? Are they more or less trustworthy than people in general?