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I'm posting on a new name, since FI has recently started checking this out and knows my name.
I've just about had it.
FI and I have been together since March 2007 We became offically engaged in December of 08. Here we are 8 months later, and I still can't get him to really talk about a wedding. He is more than happy to talk about having children, renovating the house, buying new cars, etc, but absolutely will not start planning. He even discourages me from planning and whines "ah, we should just go downtown. then we can start having kids". He's 32, I'm 23.
I'm to the point where I'm beginning to believe he doesn't really want a marriage. He just wants kids. Maybe that sounds harsh, but that's how I feel. I've tried to talk to him, but he just gets really mad whenever I talk about getting married. Even a tiny ceremony, backyard bbq wedding. He says it's the money (we'll be funding it ourselves).
I've really put him first in this relationship. I moved in with him to help him pay bills when he was out of a job. I got a good job, and I pay 80% of the bills in this house. I've taken out loans when the money was not enough. I have helped him with college classes. He only works part time, and feels the need to spend his money however he sees fit (tools, stuff for the car, etc.). I work two jobs (50+ hours a week).
The last straw came to other day. When we were driving for a fun day at the theme park, he says to me (out of the blue): "I think you should put grad school on hold until I get my degree. Let me finish, so we have two BS incomes before you start grad school. You need to help me get this degree."
First of all, I haven't even taken the GRE yet. Second, he has been in school part time since 2005 before I met him. He has continuously failed classes and retaken them. Even with my help every night, he just can't pass. He's at least 3 years from a BS and doesn't understand the committment that it takes to get a college degree. Why do I have to wait on my dreams? Why do I need to help him with HIS degree? It makes sense to have two good incomes first, but he's clearly not close to getting his.
It's gotten to the point, I love him, but I've been thinking about leaving. There's just too much stress with money and his inconsiderate thoughts. The stress comes and goes, but it's become really overwhelming lately. With work and life at home, I've actually been put on meds. If i leave, he'll surely lose the house without my income. I don't want to do that to the man I love. And I really want to work it out, but no matter how I've approached the situation (calmly, seriously talking) he just gets angry and defensive. I want to be with him, but I don't want to get married and still feel like he's not giving it 100%. I don't want a one-sided marriage. I just feel really helpless like I've hit a dead end. Everything's fine if I just keep the issues to myself and go on about everyday life. But that's not working for me.
He's refused couples counseling, gets mad when I suggest it.
I really needed to get this off my chest and vent, but if anyone has any advice or direction in this, I'd really appreciate it.I'm sorry this is so long, but I feel like all the background info is necessary for everyone to get a clear picture. I just don't know what to do anymore.
I think that by starting this thread, you already know the answer to your question.
I can't make up your mind for you, but what you are saying is you are with somebody who won't communicate with you, is stopping you from persuing your dreams and is being unrealistic about his educational abilities resulting in having you financially carry him while he keeps failing courses.
I agree , you need to do whats best for you ..and if this is the way your feeling ..then i suggest telling him , even if he gets mad ..your suppose to be a team ..and you don't feel he's pulling his weight , then u need to tell him ..and if all he does is get mad and defensive , then u know what you have to do ..I think when people get defensive there's something up ..Go with your gut ..and Be true to yourself ..Maybe this will give him a wake up call ..You never know ..
Anyways i wish you the best of luck , and please let us in on what you've decided to do ..
Ithink the issues sound bigger than the fact that he just doesn't want a wedding. Not that that's not big. You definately should not be putting your dreams on hold. Go to grad school. YOu also shouldn't be marrying someone who wouldn't want you to acheive everything you ever dreamed. No one should really get married just because that's the end goal in itself. All these issues aren't going to go away as soon as you get married. You'll have a wedding and he'll still not want you to go to grad school, he'll still not be making any money, and how are you supposed to support kids? One other thing worried me- if you aren't actively planning a wedding, why are you having to change your name to post on here? Is he stalking your posts- that sounds way to possessive and a huge red flag. I know that its really hard to leave the person you love, but don't be with someone who's going to stifle and control you. Love yourself more.
@ JoeyEmma - the way that you summed up my post says it perfectly. Thank you, maybe summing it up to him in this way will make our next conversation shorter and more to the point.
@Brattkatt22 - I know what my gut is telling me to do, and I think that's really what I am looking for - a way to give him a wakeup call before making a huge decision like moving out.
@lwittick - I agree that a wedding is the least of my worries right now. It just contributes to the whole non-communication. And I have pitched these same thoughts to him relating to supporting children. Also...I changed my name because he isn't stalking my posts, but he knows my screen name and sometimes he likes to look over my shoulder when he's home. He's not over the top about it, but I just don't want to check up on this post and him walk in and see this before I can voice it to him myself.
Hey,
Your FI sounds a lot like my ex. We dated for 3 1/2 years; he was six years older than me, and when we started dating he was 3 years away from graduating college (so was I) - when we finally broke up, he was still 3 years away from a BA, despite having been on and off in classes the whole time. Couldn't hold a steady job, had no reasonable or responsible attitude about spending money - constantly asking either me or his parents to pay his rent, buy him groceries, 'lend' him money, etc. Talked about having kids ALL THE TIME, but would never talk about marriage.
I loved him, in a way. The longer I'm out of the relationship, the more I realize it wasn't really love as much as a need to be needed (in my case). The straw that it took to break my back was the *second* (yeah, I know, really dumb sometimes) time he cheated on me.
In retrospect, a lot of people told me to get out while I was in it, and I ignore or scorned most of their advice. I could justify any and all of his behavior when I wanted. I realize now that they were right, but at the time I couldn't hear it properly. I still shudder to think of how it would have been if we'd actually gotten married -- I can gaurantee he would have spent every penny I earned, most likely without consulting me, taken me for granted (he was already doing that), disrespected me .... basically all those negative patterns would have gotten worse.
Your situation is similar to what mine was, but I know that it's not exactly the same, but I do hope you can take something away from hearing it.
Bottom line - if you're unsure at ALL, don't rush into marriage. For any reason!
Good luck; I hope things work out well for you, with or without him. I'll be praying for you, I hope that's okay.
My first FI I think proposed to me just so he could keep me around. When we met I was on a job in his town. I knew that after a year I would be moving. He knew this too. So he asked me to stay with him. I told him I couldn't unless I knew the relationship would become a marriage. So I left and in 3 months he proposed. I started moving my things to his house when I would go visit. I started interviewing for jobs, any job I could find. Not what I wanted to do. He also told me I couldn't do the theater any more or bring my cat.
I realized that the relationship was about him and what made him happy. Not what made me happy. All of us should be able to have our own dreams and follow them. I would have never asked him to give up his dreams or hobbies.
You should maybe take a break from him to find out what it is you and he wants in the relationship.
This is a very tough situation, and I'm really sorry that you are experiencing it! This is going to be very hard, but I really don't think you should marry any man who doesn't consider your needs to be equal to his. It is hard to raise children without a loving, supportive partner. Honestly, if you are working two jobs to put him through school, then he should be putting forth a lot of effort to complete his degree as quickly as possible.
My honest reaction: you sound like a wonderful partner, and your fiance sounds selfish and immature. I know it's really hard to get a fair image of a whole relationship from 1 message board post, but from what you said, it sounds like you're giving 110% to keep him financially solvent and help him realize his dreams, and instead of working his butt off to finish his degree and telling you how much he appreciates everything you do, he just wants you to keep putting your dreams on hold so he can continue doing whatever he wants. Worst of all, you've told him you're unhappy and you want to go to couples counseling, but he gets angry and defensive and won't talk to you about it.
I know it would be hard to leave him, and you'd feel sad if he lost his house, but unless he is willing to work with you to fix what's wrong in your relationship, *please* don't marry him. You can't live feeling like your partner takes and takes and takes and never gives back. Unless he's willing to face that you're unhappy and start making some changes, take the GRE, go to grad school, and don't look back.
I agree with previous posters. I think you know the answer already.
But here's what I think... you deserve your dreams and to do what's best for you. He is not looking out for you and your relationship. It sounds like he is using you. A partnership works when both people willingly give and take. Your relationship sounds out of balance. Good luck!
I honestly believe that you are way out of his league and should just move on. It seems that you are the only one trying the best to be responsible and loving in this relationship. It's senseless to give up your dreams and aspirations for one that seems not to really care.
First of all, Hugs. What a hard thing to be grappling with. This is going to be okay. You are composed and self aware and are able to articulate your feelings. I think in these situations it is important to focus on yourself and what YOU want and need from a partner and from life. He doesn't have to be a bad person, but obviously he isn't giving you what you need.
I initially wrote a whole bunch of advice, but it sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and a pretty in touch with your heart. So instead I will just remind you that your family and friends love you, they will support you no matter what, and not judge you for changing your mind, if that is what you decide. So many women (on these boards, and in life) have the same story and go on to find fulfilling loving partners, and years later can look back and be grateful for the lessons. There are also people (albeit fewer of them) who have surmounted big problems, put in the hard work with their future spouse, and made it through to the other side.
For college Psych, we had to watch a documentary on counseling methods. The doctor featured was able to reliably predict a couple's divorce odds based on watching them discuss minor/moderate household issues (dogs, money management). He didn't focus on what the issue at hand was, solely on the interaction between the two. When a couple felt obvious affection and respect for one another, even when presented with more difficult problems, they typically stayed together. When a couple demonstrated resentment and contempt, even through joking and sarcasm, they almost never did. You seem in touch with yourself enough to be able to judge where you and your FI are at. Good luck, whatever you choose.
JoeyEmma hit the nail on the head. I think this man is hindering you. You're clearly not happy and your relationship is unhealthy and yet he is not willing to meet you half way. He sounds rather selfish and immature. He may well loose the house with you not around to pay his way but, he shouldn't be using you as his financial krutch, it sounds like he doesn't appreciate you and is milking you.
I wish you the best in whatever decision you make.
Without cheating or abuse, I don't like to make snap judgments about people's relationships, but it sounds like you're in a very unhealthy situation. To give you some perspective, I got married 3 weeks ago. I'm moving cross-country for a year to pursue an incredible career opportunity. It's not the ideal way to begin a marriage, but given our long term goals for family, it's what works for us. It was my husband who encouraged me to apply for this opportunity, and he keeps telling me everyday that while he's going to miss me and being apart will be hard he wants me to be happy with my career and he's excited for me to have this chance.
Not every relationship is the same, but it really bothers me that he is essentially telling you to put your dreams (your own word) on hold indefinitely. And while I don't know what degree you plan to pursue, I can tell you that it's a lot easier to commit to grad school when you're younger and when your undergrad experience is more recent. It really gets harder with time.
Good luck with everything! I hope you find a solution that will give you some peace...whatever you decide.
I'm sorry for your situation. Honestly, if you were my friend, I'd be telling you to leave him. I cannot imagine a 32 year old man, leaching off of his 23 year girlfriend, and having the necessary qualities to be a good husband and father. I could go on, but it isn't necessary.
Good luck. Go to grad school. And start a fresh life.
I know how frustrated you are right now because I was a similar situation with my ex (I am now getting married to a wonderful man who is the total antithesis of the j.o. I almost married previously). He was so self centered and everything was all about him. He was out of work, living with me and constantly came to me and asked for money for gas or whatever. The situation got me so stressed out, that I was grinding my teeth so badly that my jaw locked. He kept 'borrowing' money and saying that he was trying to get a new job for us. Whatever. Finally, it all took it's toll on me and we eventually broke up. I found out at one point when we were kind of trying to work it out (what can I say, I thought that he would change), that he was cheating on me. That was the last straw. I demanded the money that he owed me and because he still had some of his clothes (like some really crappy suits) at my place, I held it over his head because I knew otherwise I would NEVER get that money back. Fast forward several years, and I'm happy with a wonderful man who loves me and I love him more than anything and everything that happened is a bad memory that I choose never to think of again.
Your fiance sounds like it's all about him. Take it from me, he won't change, and if he was even willing to change, you would have seen it by now. He would at least be open to talking to you about setting a date and everything. You're young, don't get roped into marrying him. Think of yourself and what you're worth. I wish you all the best!
my first BF was a taker (ive only had the 2 bf's and married #2). i would support him financially, got in back into school, even arranged job interviews - his mother loved me because her son finally was working and paying bills. but constantly being the giver is tiring and evenutally you will resent it
my advice - run, run away now. no one likes to fail in a relationship, i think thats why women put up with so much because we dont like to walk away but think of this a learning experience about what you will & will not accept and your personal happiness.
goodluck - in your heart you know you are unhappy so nows the time to start listening to it... sending hugs
I was in a relationship with a similar person in the past. All that I can say is...
If you're happier without him than you are with him, then there's your answer. That doesn't make either of you bad people, it just means that you aren't right for each other.
I do wish you the best. Just remember, what's meant to be will be.
((hugs)) to you from the beehive!
I'm sorry about this difficult situation. You need to follow your heart and your instincts. Even the healthiest marriages face difficult challenges and require compromise and flexibility from both partners. If your guys isn't willing to do that now, he likely won't be able to later on when even bigger challenges come up. I would continue to suggest premarital counseling to talk some of this over before you move forward.
I wish you the best. I hope that you're finding reassurance here. Another thing that would be tough what it would be like to have children with your FI. Obviously, you've worked hard to achieve your goal of completing college and wanting to go to grad school. But, it might be tough for your future children if your FI projects his attitude on them. Of course, it might be a different story if he was planning on being the stay-at-home parent, but it doesn't sound like that's the case. I wish you comfort in your decision making.
JoeyEmma said it perfectly. After being in a unhappy relationship for several years I told my self that I would never allow someone else to take my joy away, to give anyone that power. You are still young and have so much to look forward to in your life. Good Luck
Speaking as someone who got out of a long, emotionally abusive relationship, as someone who knows what it's like to be treated like the least important person in my own life...don't put up with that bull. You deserve so much better! Be happy. Leave the lout. Don't look back. I don't own a crystal ball or anything, but I'm certain you will be a far happier, more fulfilled person if you move on. Best wishes! We're all rooting for you!
oh no i'm so sorry to hear about this
even though we only have one side of the story, I think it's enough. I'm sorry but what man at age 32 doesn't have his life together at least a little bit more than that? You are taking on much more responsibility than you should have to, with NOTHING in return! he's a mooch....if he can't treat you decently, what makes you think that he doesn't expect you to have his kids and then burden you with the job, the money, and the responsibilities of them, too? You don't want to end up a single mother because he coudln't be a respoinsible father; he's not even taking care of you or TRYING to be a good prospective husband...
leave him, get your GRE, and get YOUR life in order. He will have to figure out a way to land on his own feet without you to cushion the fall.GL!
I think you have to ask yourself: Is this someone I can spend my life with without regret? Is this someone who will supoort me and my dreams. Is this a partnership? Is this someone that is will to grow WITH me? If you can't answer yes to these questions then I think you have your answer. It doesn't seem easy to leave when you love someone. But sometimes love isn't enough.
Good luck...Whatever happens. I wish you the best.
I think you all said exactly what I was afraid to say to myself.
I appreciate everyone's advice, and this will help me to better express myself to him. We're supposed to be going on vacation for 6 days starting this week to meet some of his family across the country. I really don't want to ruin that for either of us. (And...amazingly...he's footing THAT bill). When we get back next week, I'm going to talk and he's going to listen whether he likes it or not.
If he can't understand and totally do a 180, I know what I have to do. I really think he has it in him to do what I need if he just takes the time to listen and not get defensive. He did when we first got together. We just somehow got to the point where I'm the "mother" and he's regressed to "teenager".
BTW, I don't want anyone to think I'm focusing on the wedding. That was just the thing that brought me into reality to realize how inconsiderate he is being. All wedding plans have been on hold completely for the last month or so. I'm not disillusioned at all, I know whats going on.
WeddingBee is such a blessing. Even when times are tough and the wedding is going out the window, you all are so supportive and wonderful. I can't thank you all enough.
It sounds like you already have a hold on what you should do, so I'm just going to ditto everyone else's advice, and send hugs your way.
Please let us know how this turns out and I guess try to enjoy the vacation if you can. But don't let a vacation change your mind about him. When you get home, make sure you definately have that talk, no matter how much fun you had while you were gone.
*hugs* good luck!
At first I thought "he just doesn't want a wedding because of the cost" and I was going to defend him. I'm in that same boat with FI, except it's ME who doesn't want to pay for the wedding and it's caused some fights. I'm starting to wonder if FI just wants a party...
I thought this until I saw he wants you to put off school for him to get a degress. But rationally, it makes sense. You will be better off with two BS degrees in your household and then you can go to grad school. But you need to learn to communicate better.
So I was going to respond and suggest counseling to help you two communicate better.
But then I saw he refused counseling. I think you know what you need to do.
Reading this broke my heart a little bit for you. It really, really sounds like you're being used. It's hard to discern that when it's by the person you love most in the world but there it is. He doesn't seem to work very hard at your relationship and he is reaping all of the benefits from your hard work.
I'm glad that you realize that you deserve much better.
You're on meds because of this situation? Girl, it's time to flip over into self-preservation mode. Your happiness is not worth the sacrifice for ANYONE in the world. By posting this vent I think that you know what you need to do.
You want a spouse, not a child that you have to support. Even if he thinks it's a ridiculous expenditure, if the wedding is important to you shouldn't he buck up and make it a priority to him too? It sure as hell doesn't look like you ask for much.
I just wanted to echo what FlipFlopBride said -- after meeting his family, and spending a week where he's actually footing the bill for something, it might be tempting to think "well, I just met his whole extended family, and he paid for the trip, I must be really important to him, I'll stay with him and not have the conversation for now." Promise yourself you won't let that happen! Picture yourself opening the conversation with "I loved meeting your family and spending time with you this week, and it reminded me how many good things there are about our relationship and how much I want it to work. But the truth is, it's not working, and if we're going to get married, we need to fix it." One good week can't make up for everything you wrote in your first post.
I'm just going to float this ... I know you don't want to ruin a trip he's been looking forward to, but are you sure this is the best time to meet his family, given that you're seriously considering leaving him? Is there any way you could have the hard conversation now, send him on the trip alone, and have both of you use the time apart to think really hard about the relationship and how to fix it (or whether you want to fix it)? I know that would be really awkward and hard, but I think going on this trip might ultimately make the conversation even harder. I'm just worried he might guilt you into ignoring your problems again by saying something like "I can't believe you might want to leave me after I just took you across the country to meet my whole family."
Good luck, and please let us know how it goes!
To be perfectly blunt and hopefully not too insensitive, a 32 year old "man" depending "80%" financially on a 23 year old...asking her to put her dreams on hold to finance his (barely successful) education. I would leave and not look back. This guy has it made...no wonder he gets upset when you suggest counseling. He has you exactly where he wants you.
Get out while you can. Please.
I am very sorry for the situation you are goign through. I can relate, because my husband has a good friend who sounds similar to your fiance. He has been whining for like 5 years that he wants a son to play baseball with. All he wants are kids. He dates some women and treats them like crap and doesn't really love them at all, but he keeps talking about how he wants to marry this woman so they can have kids. It's fine to want kids, but kids are a lot of work and if you don't have a solid loving relationship then it is going to be extra difficult. You sound like you have a lot to offer but he is only interested in yoru ovaries! He says he doesn't want you to go to school now, and he is only going to continue to try to keep you at home when you have kids. And then you are going to feel trapped and resentful. Not good! He might be a nice person but his views of your relationship are unhealthy. I think you should tell him he can pick either go to counseling or you are leaving.
I agree with MelissaB...It might be tempting to go, but I would have the talk and spend the week just being "alone" going out with friends, and seeing how it feels to be somewhat independent... I would hate to know you're falling back into his trap!
wow.
JoeyEmma couldn't have said it better.
That's an amazingly perceptive answer.
I don't think this trip is a good idea in my opinion.
If i felt this way about a man, I think I would have issues playing happy housewife to be to his new family, being on the road with him, staying in a hotel, etc, with the knowledge that maybe this isn't meant to be.
Perhaps have the talk before you go? It might blow up something fierce, but I would make myself sick with the anxiety of "we'll talk in 6 days".
I really don't think I could be that patient, and an argument that big on the raod could leave you stranded.
Something to cnosider!
I honestly could not go on the trip if it were me.
By the way, here's a huge hug ((((JDK)))))) and a wish for peace and clarity for you!
My xh was a taker. Very much. Always his way. And that wears and tears on you over time. And he's my x since about 5 years ago btw.
What bothers me is the fact that this is not a reciprocal or an equal relationship. You carry the heavy load, the weight of the success of both of you lies on your shoulders. You pay the bills, work the jobs, and do all the hard work and he???
I have these same loads but I am a single working mother. Life is too short and you are too young to have these stressors constantly in your life.
If it were me, I'd tell him we need to see a counselor or that I would be leaving indefinitely.
If he is truly willing to do the work to become a PRODUCTIVE and SUPPORTIVE, LOVING partner, then give him a chance. If it's too much hassle for him, you know what to do.
I'm not sure I would go on the trip either...but I think it depends on how hopeful you are for him to do a 180. It's like waiting until after a major holiday to dump someone, so that you don't have to mar the holiday spirit with the pain of a split. Does anyone ever appreciate that gesture?
If you are reasonably certain that leaving him is inevitable but you want to give him one last chance....I would not use this trip as the "chance." You have to gauge him on the basis of his normal everyday behavior, not when he is on his best behavior because he's on a trip to see his family. So even if you do go, it's how he acts when you return that should count.
::Hugs::
Tons of great thoughts here. To me marriage should all be about being partners. Instead it seems like your FI is all about himself. A 32 year old man being supported by his 23 year old FI, asking her to put off her education, unable to hold down payments on a house - you sound like such an amazing person, it seems from your post you deserve a lot more - and will find it.
Also, people rarely do 180s for good. he is who he is, as we all are. Guys will make drastic changes to keep you around once you say you are leaving, but eventually, they always revert to their true nature. you have your whole life ahead of you - go get it!!!
I'm going to jump on here with some thoughts. They are not meant at all to offend...but if I had someone paying 80% of my bills and "helping" me get my degree...why would I be motivated to change the situation? And if there wasn't a reason to support myself or get myself through school, then why would I do it if someone else would do it for me? (Obviously, that is not my case, but I'm just sayin')
What I'm saying is, although this guys sounds like he has some motivation issues, perhaps you're enabling him a bit by allowing him to use you as a mother/caregiver/tutor/breadwinner? I think the best step is to stop supporting him. Make him man up and take care of things on his own. I know you love him, but aren't you just hurting him in the end? Maybe that will motivate him because he'll finally HAVE to support himself or he'll lose his home.
I always watch "The Intervention" on A&E and although, obviously, this situation isn't about addiction, but it is about not enabling the person you love to continue their behavior. This is what one of the interventionists say about enabling:
"Quite often people try, with the best of intentions, to help themselves or their loved ones through a problem or crisis, only to discover that the help is not only not helpful, but even harmful," says VanVonderen. "They find themselves supporting and helping to prolong on the outside, the very thing they do not support on the inside."
He's not going to stop using you. It's easier to break up with a boyfriend than to divorce a husband. Sounds like you should end this before you become even more miserable.
You're trapped in a position totally unfair to you! I wouldn't marry him.
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