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Let me pre-emptively say that I am fairly serious about respecting the religious view points of friends and family, and not imposing my own beliefs on other folks. I know weddings often turn into a happy-medium of keeping people pleased, including yourself and what you believe in. But that is easier said than done.
Our family was/is Catholic - we went through all the confirmation material, and both my brother and I had our teenage "falling out" where mom would bring us all to church on Sunday for cohesion, but neither of us felt it anymore. I think we were both starting to figure out our own aspects of spirituality, and the Catholic structure we were raised in did not fit those new concepts. College was a non-religious time, and now that I am on my own I have been working at New York Ave Presbyterian for the last two years as a singer.
FI and I knew we would prefer an outdoor ceremony with an inclusive spiritual feel- and we also knew that the Catholic church does not perform weddings outside. I knew my mother was going to stress the need for a Catholic wedding, and neither FI or I wanted that at all. It wasn't us, and I felt like I would be lying to myself if I were "going through the motions".
The only person I've ever had trouble standing up for myself around was my mother - I am not sure if this was because I did not want to disappoint her, or if it was because she is such a dominating personality that I always caved in to preserve the peace. Either way, with a wedding being the start of a "new life" independent of your parents I wanted to do what was going to make me happy - and I knew it was going to involve some discussions.
"Now you know you have to get married in the Catholic Church. Your grandmother would roll over in her grave if you didn't."
"Well mom, we were looking at having an outdoor ceremony, and the Catholic Church doesn't allow their ceremonies to be outside."
"No way! Let me call your deacon second cousin. We can get him to marry you."
Never-mind asking me about that decision. After conferring with her cousin, he confirmed what I already knew, and said there were a few options. First, we could try to write the Dioceses of Burlington and seek a dispensation form to go outside of a church. Secondly, he suggested a small ceremony at a church on Friday night, and then an outdoor "wedding" on Saturday. While some brides are fine with this idea, it broke my heart. I did not want people traveling to witness a "fake" wedding on Saturday, and I felt like it discredited what FI and I felt was important to us. Again, I do respect the Church's right to their doctrine, but did not want to be forced through that procedure.
We were sitting in my parent's kitchen and I had to try to refrain from crying in front of everyone, I was so upset and flustered about being forced into this without recourse. Later that week mother threatened to cut off all funding if we didn't have a Catholic wedding. As much as I would like to say, "screw you, we'll pay for it ourselves" that really isn't a feasible option with student loans, grad school, bills and our timeline with my aunt's terminal cancer. I know I'd feel cheated out of an experience if we just went to a JOP, and I wanted our ceremony to reflect us. My mom had me cornered.
Some of you may be thinking, "hold up, it isn't that bad. Just bite the bullet." And I sort of am now - we've gotten her to agree to having our wedding in VT with a liberal Episcopal minister, she's pretty rad. We'll have to go down to my parent's parish after the VT wedding and have a convalidation, which is where you sign the paperwork for your marriage to be recognized in the Catholic church. It's normally for fallen away Catholics who want to get back into the church. But we don't. I was hoping to just sign some papers in 5 minutes (As the hippie priest suggested) and wash my hands of this.
But this past month my mother has started to refer to this MD convalidation as our "Real Wedding". She is inviting family to fly down. She is making it into a big deal. This just makes me want to scream and hide under a pillow and cry that still, after telling her what I wanted and what I believe in, my mother cannot respect my wishes and feels the need to basically say I'm wrong and she is right. What comes after this, a fuss about baptising kids down the road? This isn't picking out a florist.
So I'm at a loss as to how to get her to back off and chill out. And how to keep the $10k that they are putting towards the wedding. And how to grow a spine without causing discourse that could last for the next 15 years. Anyone else get stuck in a similar situation?
First off, let me say that I am really sorry you're in this situation. It's messy, hurtful, and a huge divide between you and your mother. We are going through something almost identical - the only difference is we don't want to get married in a church, and so my FMIL wants us to have a "real" ceremony in the church we grew up in first which happens to be Lutheran. She is adamant that it comes first because it is the "real" marriage.
I have no idea how we're going to solve this, since neither R nor I feels comfortable with it. I don't think there is one right answer. It comes down to balancing your personal beliefs and how much you want to make family happy. Unfortunately, because of how hot a topic religion is, there's going to be judgment no matter what you do. There will be people who think that going through a ceremony you don't believe in is wrong, and people who think that letting your mom down on such an issue (especially when she's paying) is wrong. What's more, there's a sense that letting down yourself and your fiance is wrong.
I wish I could help more. :( But I empathize 100%. Keep us updated, please!
My mom is a strict catholic and I have always known this. I saw it at my sister's wedding. She threatened to my sister that she wouldn't come to my her wedding. She eventually did but was not happy.
I knew for my wedding, I was screwed. About the time of my sister's wedding, I was on my sister's side. I kind of had a falling out of the catholic church and explored other options with my DH's church. (He's lutheran.) A few months passed and it just didn't feel right going to his church. So I went back to the catholic church. I had to do this because I knew just agreeing to do a catholic wedding would be really hard on me. But luckily for me and my mom's sake, I did feel comfortable having a catholic wedding.
Oh, my sister's wedding, she knew she would get a huge opposition for her non-catholic wedding which is why she had a small wedding. She and her husband paid for it themselves.
For my wedding, I knew there were other strict catholic traditions and cultural traditons that my parents wanted. I knew this going in, so I knew from the beginning that if I was to have a wedding, me and my husband would have to be able to afford almost all of it.
I see you are in a hard hard place. But if your mom is anything like my mom, she will take the money away if you don't have a catholic wedding.
I'm sorry to tell you this but the only way, you would be able to have a non-catholic wedding, is if you pay for your wedding on your own. I know you said you can't but honestly with your mom giving you 10k, you kind of have to go with what your mom wants.
I would try to see other options of having a smaller wedding and possibly leaving your mother out of it. I know I'm going to get a lot of slack for this from the strong catholics. But this is what it sounds like what you want.
My brother is not a strong catholic but if he were to get married. He would get married in a catholic church to make my mother happy. I don't know if I would do that if I was my brother. I do love my mother and there are certain things I would do for my mom. For me, it was kind of important to me to have a catholic wedding. If it wasn't, I wouldn't have a catholic wedding.
I could say try compromising with your mom but my mom was tough and I have a feeling she might not budge. I had a catholic wedding but no communion. I couldn't tell her this part until the day before my wedding. I know if I did, she wouldn't have come. Or she would have threatened at least.
You already are thinking about having two weddings. That is the alternative. Your mom will think this will be the real wedding. While you won't. I say do the two weddings so to make your mom happy.
Oh, what about having a priest and a pastor do your ceremony. It will have to be a church wedding, though.
Yeah, I think you are kind of stuck here.
Sorry :(
I totally empathize and as my dad is paying for 75% our wedding we just bit the bullet. We also wanted to have an outdoor, 'spiritual' wedding, but as the Catholic church doesn't do that we had to decide pretty early on.
At the end of the day we decided it's only an hour of our time and it'll make my dad so happy. It's definitely been hard and challenging at times, but we are almost there!
My grandmother offered to pay for the band at our wedding... until she found out we were getting married on the beach and not having a catholic ceremony. We decided it was our day and told my grandmother we didn't need her help. I'd rather have a DJ than change the entire vision of my wedding.
Wow this sounds like a HUGE mess. I will tell you that this won't end. When you have kids, it'll be, "raise them Catholic" and "get them baptised" and all kinds of stuff. My niece and nephew are baptised because it's what their grandma wants, not what my SIL wants.
My parents actually offered to pay for an entire wedding in Jamaica. Fly out DH's immediate family, an attendant for each of us, and pay for the honeymoon.
It wasn't what we wanted, we turned it down, saying his grandparents couldn't make it, his sister would be 7 months pregnant (with a toddler) and it wasn't feasible.
They took back their offer to help us pay for the wedding. Very "My way or the highway"
And I think we are better (and happier) that we didn't do what they wanted. It's tough to say no and turn it down, but you'll essentially lose your own wedding day to your mom's desires AND i'm sure your FI isn't too thrilled about being strongarmed into Catholicism (eventually she'll start working on converting him, I'm sure). I know i woudln't be =\
I'm sorry you're going through this. :( I really don't think you should go through with a Catholice ceremony (or convalidation) if you and your Fi's hearts are not into it. It sounds like it's very important to your mom and she's playing the "I'm paying" card to make sure she gets her way. Honestly, I see a few ways you might be able to get out of this, but all of them are going to have consequences:
1) You could pretend to go along with the convalidation and then just not show up for the ceremony. I think this would be a grave mistake; it would probably destroy your relationship with your parents.
2) You seem confused on whether your Fi was actually ever baptized or not? He will need to have proof of his baptism in order to get married (or have the marriage convalidated) in the Catholic church. You could use this as an excuse as to why you can't have the convalidation ceremony. I think this would also cause some rifts in your family, especially if your mom then insists your Fi get baptized. I don't think it's a good idea.
3) You can cancel the wedding your mom is planning and wait until you and your Fi have enough money to pay for your own wedding. This would suck for you, but I do think it's your best option. Your mom might still try to manipulate you into having the ceremony she wants by threatening not to come, but at least you could have the wedding you want.
I wish you and your Fi the best. I really feel for you. Unfortunately, the only way I see out of this situation is to remove your parents' money from the equation so you can have the wedding you want.
Also I agree with ejs4y8, that the baptising your kids convo/fight is definitely down the line. For us, we are both aware that we are going to tell my dad no regardless of how he feels about it. There's only so much I'm willing to compromise on at the end of the day.
Just thought of something else. You're getting married this July. 3 months away? If you haven't started the pre-cana process with the catholic church, you won't have time. Most catholic churches need at least 6 months or more in advance. Maybe you could tell your mom that it's too late to have a catholic wedding. :) You sound like you are on a timeline.
that is horrifying! ooh, I would have words with her if that were my mother. When is this catholic revalidation ceremony? Can you have it on the sunday after the wedding? I don't like the idea that she's inviting guests to attend BEYOND who is already on the wedding guest list. my sneaky thinking says that if you make sure it's close to the wedding date, you can ensure people aren't making a special trip for this, and then you know what? Do what you want for your actual wedding day, and then DON'T SHOW UP FOR THE CATHOLIC CEREMONY. Go hide out in a hotel with your new hubby before your honeymoon flight and drink champagne and eat desserts and go to the spa. If she's mad about the money, I say write her a check when you graduate and get a job and more savings. No one can tell you religion-wise what to believe and what to do. you're an adult! A free thinking adult.
If I were you I would just get married first, then not go to the cathlic convalidation. She can't "undo" the wedding after its happened.
Please do not agree to a ceremony and then skip out on it. Lying to your family is never a good idea.
Oh, I'm sorry. This is awful. The only thing I want to tell you is that the ceremony is the wedding. I think you and your FI have to have the ceremony you want. Is there anyone else in your family (dad or grandma, maybe?) who can talk to your mom and get her to chill out?
@lgenz - i dont know - to me, it'd be a taste of her own medicine. Of course lying isn't a good idea, but when you've exhausted all of the other more reasonable options and the mother is still forcefully pushing her religion and guilt on you, where do you draw the line? I don't think anyone should let themselves be bullied, ESPECIALLY over something so personal. To me, an issue like this would be an absolute dealbreaker. I wouldn't care if i had to use dixie cups and plates at my reception and change the wedding- i would rather have my way on the important things than someone's money. And i wouldn't be shy about explaining the situation, either. It sounds like w/ the mother, if this bossy about church, and appearances etc, a dust-up like I described above would be shameful enough for her and bring her back to a place of compromise.
I'm sorry to hear that this is going on. It is really unfortunate that your mother does not understand that religion needs to be a decision that you make about your own beliefs, not something you force upon someone else.
When my husband and I got engaged, he was not Catholic. I was raised Catholic, and it was something that was very important to me. We discussed the options, including having a shorted Catholic ceremony(non-mass secondary to him not being Catholic at the time), but after attending church with me, he felt comfortable enough that he chose to make the switch on his own. I never once wanted him to make a switch on my behalf, and neither did my parents. They were willing to accept whatever decision he made even if it would be upsetting to them.
I have very religious parents, but despite their early strong-arming when I was young, as an adult, they have always taught me that forcing someone into your religion does not make for a good future. If you truly do not believe in what you are doing, then it is not worth it.
Perhaps a good compromise would be to speak with the deacon performing your wedding. A heart to heart with him may allow him to realize that neither you nor your FI are committed to the idea of Catholicism. My priest told me that if there was any doubt on our end, the church would prefer you not make such a serious commitment. I would like to believe that your deacon would feel the same way.
A wedding ceremony in the church is a major decision, and comes with it many responsibilities. If you or your FI do not agree with the belief system of the Catholic church, then it would not be prudent to do it under pressure.
I'm sorry, and good luck with your wedding!
I agree with ejs and Mrs. Spring. You must bite the bullet.When you get a convalidation, you must agree to raise your children Catholic. Your mother WILL hold that over you. And your FI doesn't have to have been baptised, only one of you (that's what we're doing); basically it means you get a sacrament (emphasis on the little "s"), not a Sacrament.
The only way to do this is to stand up to your mother (and hold your ground), tell her you're not getting married in the Catholic church, and then do what you can to pay for your wedding yourself if she backs out. I'd also recommend bringing the Deacon cousin into the conversation. Perhaps he can help.
I went through something similar with my mother; it sounds like she still feels entitled to run your life, the way mothers do for their children and this seems to be compounded when marriage enters the equation because suddenly there's a spotlight on the issue. You have to tell her that your husband and your marriage comes first. If you don't, it's going to be like this for the rest of your life.
Keep the conversation loving and full of "I feel" statements. I won't lie, it'll probably suck, but it'll probably also be worth it.
I agree with the others. You must stick up for your own beliefs in spite of the financial ramifications. It is disrespectful to the Church and untrue to your and your fiance's beliefs to go through with a convalidation. You cannot enter a vow ceremony with no intention of keeping the promises you make. If your mother cannot understand and accept that, you should say thanks but no thanks to her money. I'm sorry that you're having to go through what I'm sure is an awful time.
Thanks guys, we're still waiting for them to get back from a Florida vacation with my Uncle, and my Aunt with terminal cancer. Part of the time line issue with doing things this summer is the fact that she (and my grandfather who is 96) will probably not be around next summer. Until she gets back I can't really have a sit down with her in Maryland.
I have asked her previously why it is so important for her to have us "married Catholic" when we have a few disparities of opinion with church policy. Her viewpoint hasn't been very logical, and is filled with answers like "you need to have your faith", "the church is important" and "your grandmother would roll in her grave if you weren't". I've tried to remind her that yes, we do have morals, and she did a good job of raising me and instilling those values in me, irregardless of faith-based issues. I've let her know that I can still have a connection with the divine without suscribing to the restrictive social and political arguments of the Church. But basically, she hasn't given a really logic based answer other than "because I said so". Which irritates me as an Aquarius.
Her priest at her church in MD is kind of a hippie. My Dad digs him. He doesn't push faith on people, but I'm not exactly sure what my mother has said to him about us - I've had one phone conversation with the man, and I really like him. He suggested getting an Episcopal in VT to do our ceremony since it is very similar to Catholicism, and then coming down to MD and basically filling out paperwork to be sent to Rome. He also said that we wouldn't even really need to do a ceremony in MD, since the convalidation can be as simple as spending 10 minutes filing the papers. That, I could be okay with. I think he subtley gets the fact that I'm not too on board with the Catholic part, although I didn't flat out say that to his face. He also said not to worry about the Pre-Cana, although he did offer two books for spiritual reading. I like this guy.
Our priest in VT is awesome. She is very liberal, she's also a lesbian, and FI and I are very happy to be getting married in a state where anyone is legally allowed to be wed. Our first draft ceremony is here if anyone is interested:
http://le-gra-go-deo.blogspot.com/2010/02/ceremony-wording.html
Spiritual, with aspects of tradition sprinkled in there. She's been great about giving some ideas and we'll be editing it more as the date gets closer.
So now the only problem is my mother's not so subtle hinting at my 'real wedding'. She's gotten invitations for it now, and asked why I don't invite all of my Virginia friends to my real wedding in Maryland if they can't get up to Vermont. I've already told her that I don't want anyone to be there, and I don't want it to be a big deal, and that I'm not going to re-wear my dress. I've asked her to keep that small and basically just be FI and I and my parents there to witness the paper signing stuff. But she will not listen in regards to making it not a big deal.
It is so frustrating because I know she usually means well, and isn't a bad person. I also don't want to have to live the next 20 years not being able to talk to my father because my mother is holding him hostage due to anger about a wedding issue. I also have a feeling she would spread vitrol around the rest of her side of the family, which is ok. I've got a new family now and they are awesome.
We both do have jobs and pull in collectively about $75k a year second year out of school. But living near Washington D.C. that is tiddlywinks and we're trying to save cash for a move and graduate school. I think I may loose this one to mom, but hopefully in 5-8 years we'll be better positioned to say "No" on baby issues.
Will update more once there is some kind of progress.
After reading your postings, it sounds like you really don't want to do the Catholic thing except just to make your mom happy & if she's not happy, you can't pay for your wedding. If your heart isn't in it, than why would she want you to go thru the motions? When you have kids, is she going to threaten to cut off gifts to them if you don't do more Catholic church things with them? Cause it sounds like she's trying to control your spiritual life... but that's your choice, not hers.
Weddings aren't about making others happy, I know people don't want to offend family but it is about joining YOUR life to your FI. Do what you guys want to do! If you can't afford a wedding, maybe elope? If you don't want to elope, maybe have a casual wedding with close friends & family in a park, or someone's backyard, like a bbq style or just a dessert only reception. My wedding is under $700 & my friend had one under $200 (she borrowed things). Its totally do-able to have a wedding on a really low budget.
She's picking out the invitations & inviting who she wants... its not her wedding thou! She needs to "let you go" because you're forming a new family now & won't be under her covering, but under your soon to be husband's. I don't mean "letting go" means she can't be in your life, or help you out... but not make your decisions for you.
I really hope that whatever you decide to do, you have fun, enjoy it & are happy.
It sounds like the priest in MD might be able to help you. Why not call or email him and tell him you really want MD ceremony to be small and with as little pomp as possible. Tell him that you consider the VT wedding to be the point where you will be married, and that as you understand it, the thing in MD is just to get the Catholic church to recognize the marriage. He will probably confirm that this is what it is for too. Then tell him that you think your mother is having trouble understanding what exactly the MD ceremony is, and that she seems to believe it is a whole second wedding. Ask him if he can explain it better and maybe she'll listen to him.
I think you're right not to invite any guests of your own or from your FI's side to the MD event. Tell any other relatives that you have contact with "Oh, it's just signing some paperwork, there's no need to trouble yourself with coming to that!" And if it turns out that your extended family does show up anyway, try not to worry about it. In fact, it might be good if you could ask the priest if you could do the whole thing in his office, that way there would be nothing for these people to sit and witness, you know?
If anyone makes some comment about your "real wedding" I suggest giving them a cold look and simply say "I will be married on July 24th, in VT. Please don't suggest that my wedding is "fake" simply because it does not align with your religious beliefs."
Good luck, and sorry you're dealing with this.
I had this issue with my Catholic mom as well, and I just explained to her that, since I don't believe in God and am not a practicing Catholic, it would be downright sacreligious for me to go through with a ceremony in which I did not believe. This was super effective- the last thing she wanted to do was encourage a sham before God! You wouldn't make all of your wedding guests sign papers swearing allegiance to a religion they didn't believe in, so why should you do this?
Maybe your mom would back down if you explained that this experience would make you resentful of Catholicism if, later down the road, if you were to ever consider rejoining the Church.
I've always felt like religion is a no-go area for other people to push me around. I would not let your mother decide this for you - no amount of money should sway your desire to have the type of ceremony you want. She should be giving you the money as support for you - not as a down payment to control you and your decisions. Period. Obviously, find a nicer way to say that to her - but don't cave on it - or else she'll expect to be able to control other aspects of your marriage.
If your mother is paying, then she gets to determine the details. It is a sad but true fact. You are not entitled to anything from your parents for your wedding. If you really object to doing it their way, then you need to pay for what you want yourself. Either make it a less expensive wedding or push the date back to give you some time to save. My FI and I are paying for our wedding ourselves for just this reason.
Since you really don't want to do the convalidation ceremony, I would absolutely not tell your parents you are going to be there and then not show up. That is both disrespectful and rude and I would be highly offended if any child of mine ever did such a thing and would probably disown them.
I hope you are able to reach a good compromise. It really sounds like you need to have a sit-down with your mother.
@futuremrsreed:
I completely disagree with you. In what universe does someone paying for your wedding mean that they get to railroad your most fundamental personal beliefs? Not this one. Someone gifting you money in no way means that you have to give up your right to choice. Does a man going to work and a woman staying home mean that he gets to make every decision, simply because he is "paying for it"? NO. A wedding should be a day when you work with your family towards a momentous occasion. Payment should not be mistaken for totalitarian control. Money should not be equated with the ability to control someone's life.
I think that money shouldn't be used for control in anything.
If someone's giving you money to do a wedding a certain way, than that's dangerous territory because you have no say & if you don't like it, no wedding for you. Which isn't really a gift, more like a contract. If they're giving you the money to have a wedding period, than they shouldn't control anything.
@futuremrsreed - While i can see what you mean about money controlling some decisions, you can't put a PRICE on things like religion. No No No. And you'd disown your child for not attending a religious ceremony that they in no way believed in? That is very harsh and i hope it doesn't come to that for the OP!
If the mother is paying for half and wants ivory invitations, compromise and give her the ivory invitations. But to sacrifice your most personal beliefs? Let someone buy control over the very foundation of your marriage? You only live once - why live a lie? Is the funding or appeasing the parents worth it?
I think, in a perfect world, money (and other gifts) would always be given without expectations (or strings) attached. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. Many parents do expect to be considered in the decisions (or even make decisions completely by themselves) when they are paying. It might not be fair or ideal, but it certainly seems like silverbrooke's mother has this attitude. It would definitely be better if the op's mother gave her the money without putting any stipulations on how it was spent, but that's not really the situation here.
Honestly, we all have to make decisions about what is/is not acceptable to us. It wasn't acceptable to me to be married like my parents would have wanted, so my husband and I completely paid for our wedding by ourselves. Other posters, like ejs, have made the same choice. Silverbrooke has to make the same decision, too: either accept her mother's "gift," convalidation ceremony and all, or reject the money and her mother's control of the wedding planning.
While I do think it is wrong if a parent offers to pay for part or all of the wedding in exchange for some power. But I know it happens. Some parents do it. I'm a bit on biased because my parents don't have a lot of money and sometimes I am jealous at brides who have families who can help out. I know there are traditions where the family pays but I know plenty of people to don't follow that tradition because they don't want their parents to pay for such a big event or some like me, who don't have parents who could.
Parents should not feel like they HAVE to contribute to their child's wedding... maybe that is why some parents feel they should have some power over the wedding because they don't have to pay for a child's wedding but are because they want that power to control or maybe assist in their child's planning.
Just thinking out loud.
To original poster... sorry, side topic....
I think the convalidation is a good compromise. But every time she says "real wedding," correct her. If she keeps at it... I don't know, start crying? Threaten to just cancel everything and live in sin? Hey, if she's manipulating you...
Also, if people end up coming down for the convalidation, is it really a big deal? I know it must be frustrating having your mother try and pretend you're something you aren't, but look at it as an opportunity to see your friends and family again. And if you really don't want them there, just tell them yourself that it's essentially paperwork and you'll understand if they don't come down for such a little thing.
Wow, that sounds like a really tough situation. Wwhen people are stressed (particulaarly moms) they can lose sight of things. Maybe you can make a deal where you and your fiance talk to whoever does the marriage prep counseling in the church. They will probably be on your side, no one within the parish will want to force you into the marriage when you don't believe in it. They may be able to help work things out with your mother too.
I never said that anyone can put a price on religion. I said that someone can put a price on a wedding. In MY opinion, a gift of money always has strings attached. It is just the way the world works. This bride asked for advice on what to do when the money offered for her wedding did have strings attached, and I offered my opinion. My parents also offered me money and the strings attached to it were not acceptable to me, so I declined.
I happen to be Catholic, and I don't believe the OP should go through with the convalidation ceremony. She doesn't believe in it and she has her own idea of spirituality, to which I believe she should stay true. Clearly, she has got a good head on her shoulders and has thought about this at length. However, and no offense is intended by this remark at all, she still wants the money her parents originally offered but she doesn't want to abide by their rules. Just because the parents' concept of a wedding and their daughter's concept of a wedding do not align does not mean that she gets final say on how that money is spent. It is their money, they have earned it, and they have offered it because clearly this wedding is important to them too. Weddings are all about compromise if you are not the one footing the bill. Mrs Spring said it very well.
@crayfish In this universe, absolutely. The bride has a choice to accept this "gift" of money with its strings attached, or to reject it and do things her own way. To claim that she deserves the money to do with it however she pleases just because she is the daughter and her parents "should" pay for things is self-entitlement.
@Melissabegins I didn't say I would disown my child for not going through a ceremony that he or she didn't believe in. I said I would disown them for promising they were going to go to one, taking my money, and then not showing up. That is an extremely manipulative and deceitful action. Completely different situation.
@silverbrooke I am sorry this thread got so sidetracked. I really was just trying to offer my opinion on your situation. If your mother is paying then she has the final say, and that is a sad but true fact.
@futuremrsreed I think it's one thing to say that she wants the money her mother offered but doesn't want to play by the rules if the rules had been clear to all parties up front. It's another thing when the rules are changed by the person with the money later in the game, when things were presumably already underway. That's just as much manipulation as you feel saying she would show up to the convalidation ceremony and then ducking out on that would be.
For the OP: is there some way you can acknowledge the heritage you were raised in during your ceremony? It might be an olive branch that you can offer your mother, regardless of what you do for the convalidation (your own issue to decide there).
@futuremrsreed
There is a difference in giving money for a wedding and having an opinion over what type of chairs to rent, and in dictating what type of religious ceremony it should be. Money should never dictate individual religious beliefs. It is not her mother's place, regardless of money. Strings attatched should never, EVER be related to the religion. And if they were, her mom should have been more upfront about it.
@MrsReed: We have ordered the ceremony process very similar to Episcopal/Catholic. I've also been looking for (and not really finding) a Biblical reading that I really enjoy and connect to as a second reading. We were also going to do a similar prayers for the people style aspect at the end of the service, but with family members giving wishes/blessings.
No, I don't really want to do the convalidation, but she isn't going to take no for an answer. My hope was to make it as 'painless' as possible and not be subjected to a big shindig where I have to lie in front of a slew of family. Not like lying on a piece of paper is any better, but that is basically what I am going to have to do to keep a relationship with my mother. It is weird - she hasn't made a fuss about my working at a Presbyterian church for the last two years, but when the wedding came up, it was a game changer.
Even if we were to pay for the wedding ourselves (which, *could* be feasible on this timeline with some credit card debt and a smaller guest list not including the 75 people my mother invited), it would still drive a fork in what relationship I have with the rest of her side of the family, since there would be gossip and bad blood and likely people (maybe even my mother) not showing up due to being pissed off and thinking that we were getting married in sin.
In essence, I will not live it down if we don't do it. My mother still strategically when we visit will give me the twisted fork I angrily twisted one morning before middle school when we had a fight. She's good with guilt and grudges. I also know she is a good person with her own idea of what is right, and I still need a mother in my life in some aspect. I don't think I'm ready to cut those ties off completly, but it is frustrating bending again. Only for my mother, you know the feeling?
So feeling for you, silverbrooke, your situation just makes me so sad.
We're getting married Catholic, too, the church we both grew up in, where we both were christened, confirmed etc, even though our 'beliefs' are flimsy at best. It's just so much... easier. It's horrible to be pragmatic about something like this, but where the hell would we possibly be buried if we weren't allowed into our local graveyard? And we'd have to go a good distance to find a primary school for atheist/agnostic kids round here! I just wish the world would move to a secular condition a bit faster, one where religion is a personal matter in every meaningful way.
Of course, your situation is really about control, I'm sure if you were ok with this your mum would have another issue to assert her demands on?
I have no useful advice, I'm afraid, I just wish you well with it.
I'd love to find out from someone who is really up on all the catholic rules and such because from what I remember (and it's been a while) I thought you had to have not only been baptized as a catholic but received all the sacraments in order to be married as a catholic or have a con-validation ceremony and that's not even touching the required pre-cana stuff? If her FI has only been baptized as a Methodist I don't understand how this can even matter because they can't get married or have the con-validation ceremony in the church? Can someone explain how all this works? Just to preface this my Mum is extremely catholic and my dad was not, it's a very very long and complicated story but my mum basically gave up her right to communion for my dad because of not being married in the church so all this someone not being catholic thing seems pretty weird to me since I grew up watching her not being able to do something that was so so important to her because they weren't married in the eyes of god. What is a con-validation ceremony and how does this all work when someone involved is another religion other than Catholic?
@Cricket1524: About convalidation & Catholic weddings when one member is NOT Catholic - ironically, despite all assumptions to the opposite, the Catholic Church respects & welcomes visitors from other faiths, including interfaith marriages. Now, my amount of expertise doesn't relate to the OP & is relegated solely to that of one member being Catholic (myself) & the other member being UN-baptized (my FI). In this case, a Catholic wedding or convalidation may occur as long as the un-baptized member agrees to:
Both partners in the relationship are present when the priest or deacon who will eventually perform the ceremony requests the agreement of the un-baptized partner. The un-baptized partner signs the contract & plans for the Catholic wedding or convalidation ceremony proceed.
Side note: FI & I are getting married in the Church because it's important to ME & we're paying for our weddings (we're doing the church wedding on Friday & our outdoor wedding on Sunday) all on our own, because there's the BIG possibility that both sides of our family would question the need/desire for the sacramental wedding I want. So the whole "paying for the wedding you want" thing goes both ways.
Is there any way you can call it off and elope? I would do it. Look, I was raised Catholic but in no way my parents would get me to do what I want with my life. My beliefs are non-negotiable, no matter the amount of money or temper tantrums.
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