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Um, money absolutely matters! Without money, you really can't do much. I think anyone who knows the value of a dollar would agree. Sure, love is great and all but it doesn't pay the bills.
Thankfully I've never really had to struggle but I know a lot of people who have and it's very hard on them. The stresses of not knowing how you're going to give your kids a Christmas let alone pay your rent that month is very trying.
MM man says " the only issues we have are financial ones" and he is pretty close to right
You are realistic. You need money to live and do anything. It is the #1 reason for divorce.
Money can't buy happiness but love won't pay the rent. Cliche but true. You need a good balance of both to truly be happy but I'd er on the side of love.
I have a very comfortable life style at the moment but I'm by no means wealthy. However a few years before I met FI, I had a 2.5 year relationship with a guy who is filthy, obscenly rich. We would take exotic vacations at the drop of a hat, he would buy me designer everything, he had a huge house and boat, etc etc etc. We were truly in love but there were a lot of aspects to the relationship that made me unhappy, (he wanted everything his way on his terms). I knew that if I married him, I would never have to worry about money or working or anything. My life would be taken care of. I stayed with him longer than I should have because of how comfortable I was but in the end, the money wasn't enough, (even the crazy passionate love wasn't enough).
Now years later, and with a clear head, I look back on the situation and realize how unhappy I was becoming and how unhappy I would have been if I stayed and no amount of money could change that.
FI and I will probably never have that life style but I could not be more happier with our lives together and the way he treats me. So given the choice I would 100% of the time chose more love over more money.
It depends on the person. Some people don't care about being poor; I know dirt poor drug-addicted gutter punk couples who are happy together despite the fact that they don't have shit in life. Of course for regular working people like the rest of us it matters because we have bills to pay, etc.
I'm definitely split on the situation. Money can make your life easier in certain aspects. You won't have to stress about rent, bills, cars, Christmas', etc. However, sometimes money can cause just as many struggles as you would go through if you didn't.
I love my FH - Lord knows I'm not with him for his money, because he doesn't make a huge amount where he works, but he LOVES what he does. I am the breadwinner in our household, and we get by and we're fine. I just love how much he loves his job -- I just wish they loved him as much.
Money could definitely make certain things easier, on those months when things are cutting it close, or I really want those new shoes, or something to that effect, but I don't need fancy materialistic things to make me happy. I am perfectly fine with my American Eagle Jeans, T-shirts and Sperry's. And he loves me that way.
To each it's own.
I totally agree! We have had a pretty luxurious by our standards 1st year of marriage but now hes going back to school and we're really heading back to the 'broke college kid' phase. We're 26 but I've got to be the sole provider for our living expenses for 2.6 years. Money makes a huge difference in life and your relationship.
My husband has been unemployed for 9 long months, the one car we have has over 114k miles, we can't afford to travel to see our families as much as we would like, and I'll be 30 in 6 months and we can't afford to have kids right now...money most certainly does matter. Now, with all that said, DH and I are very happy, but having more money could definitely get rid of some major stress and sporadic gray hairs. lol
You are being realistic. We are better off now but when it sucked, it REALLY sucked. However, "through thick and thin" and I think that's where the line comes in that love is all that really matters.
I.e. if you love each other, you will get through it together.
Now, if I were 32 and my husband was 32 and we go on a first date and he tells me he lives at home because he can't afford his own apartment...I'm not sure that there would be a second date.
According to the studies I've read about, the answer is yes - to a point. There's a certain point below which a lack of money has a significant impact on happiness. Which only makes sense - if you're unemployed, struggling to pay your bills, etc., of COURSE you're more likely to be unhappy. We have been there very recently and it took a huge toll on our mental health.
That said, past that point, extra earnings/wealth don't tend to increase happiness.
If I was less lazy, I'd look it up and find what that point is, but maybe one of you knows what I'm talking about.
I don't know... I kind of agree with both you AND the other side haha. I mean on one hand I think people have kind of a set level of happiness. Some people are going to be happy whether they are rich, poor, or in the middle. Some people are always unhappy and nothing will change that. So in that respect I do think that money doesn't really matter.
That being said..... money sure does make life easier. :)
I thought this was an interesting article about the corelation between money and happiness: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628,00.html. The basic premise is that $75,000 a year is the golden number for happiness. More than that and people are not any happier (in some cases they are more unhappy), and the less people make below that number, the more unhappy they generally are. This makes sense to me (though of course there will be exceptions)--people tend to be happiest when they have enough money to live comfortably without worrying too much, but when earning money is the focus of their lives, they aren't able to actually enjoy the fruits of their labor.
@Just_Squeeze: I laughed out loud when I read your post because when I met my husband he was 32 and just moved to Illinois. He was living in his friend's basement because he took the first entry level position (not even in his career area) he was offered at the company he wanted to work for. 10 years later he is at the top of that same company and we have a beautiful life. I was 22 when I met him and could see in his eyes that this was a man that was going places.
@mightywombat: I didn't see your comment before I posted. I think we're talking about the same study!
I used to be super-rich (we would get catalogs in the mail that offered airplanes for sale-delivered to the nearest airport:) and I've been poor and in the middle too. Money definitely makes a lot of things easier and I'll tell you this much, it's way better to have been poor first and rich later. It completely SUCKS to go the other way. I miss my life. Especially lately with economy. I'm so sick of being poor. Everyone I know lost a LOT of net wealth. Except for my friend who invested in gold and silver. lol
But on the other hand, I've learned so much about spending that even when i have money again, I'll never spend it the way I used to. Trips and experiences are good but buying a pair of Tod's alligator loafers for $2,000 is NOT the way to riches. lol
Also, when I had money there were like seven bank accounts to manage and balance, nine mortgages to pay, etc. It's kind of a headache to manage all that. Money definitely complicates your life but at the same time gives you freedom.
That said, I'll take the complications over having to repair my $300 sandals because I can't afford to buy new ones.
I think it is possible to be very happy with not much money, but extremely difficult in our society. In a living off the land Amish sense I think you can be poor and happy.
If in order to function in your daily life you need a car and insurance and a dishwasher and clothes that look professional, etc. Then it's almost impossible to be poor and happy.
I do think people overestimate how much money they need to be happy though. I forget the exact figure but psych studies have been done that people's happiness quotient doesn't alter if they make $50k a year or $150k a year. Once you get much below that depending on the area then it starts to go down.
lol, scrap that last paragraph, I just saw PP's posted the study with the real numbers :)
Money matters - to a point. As some of the PPs have mentioned, once you make enough to pay the bills without living paycheck to paycheck and have some left over for fun and savings, increases in salary/income really don't corelate to further happiness. That's when love and relationships and the activities that make our lives fulfilled become important.
My fiance and I have traded off going back to school, but because I went back to school first, he couldn't get a job in that college town that paid the bills. So we lived on about 30-40% his contributions and about 60-70% my contributions while I was getting my master's, and now that he's in law school, I'm making what would be grown-up money if I were working full time, so he pays his half of rent and cable and I pay for everything else--my share of rent, power, groceries, travel, car, repairs, etc. Including the wedding. That's going to be all me.
It's caused some tension at times. I get resentful about putting so much more money into this relationship than he does. I know that once he's a lawyer and I go back to school again (if I get into med school, or if I don't, I'll probably either go back for a Ph.D. in Psych or take more math and become an actuary) he'll be the major source of money, and he'll probably make a lot more than I do for a long time. But I can't help wishing he would make money NOW. And especially when I was getting my master's, he basically wasn't looking for anything better once he got his crappy job, and I used to get so angry at him for not trying harder to contribute.
Not to mention the constant fear of a medical emergency. I have health insurance now, but I'm getting laid off in just under a year unless our project gets a new source of funding, and since we're not married, he's not on my insurance plan. He doesn't have insurance, period. If he gets in an accident, we are so screwed. I've tried to talk him into applying for the cheap state insurance dozens of times, and he just won't do it.
So, yeah. More money = less problems. People who say otherwise are either naive or really, really bad with money.
@burris4: Oh gosh! I hope I didn't offend. It's just that my ex was like the man I described and he is 45 now and STILL living at home, lol!
Truly, money matters only as much as you let it.
I'm young and in college, so is DH, and we get by. We budget and cut out things that aren't necessary (no food processor? Just put the graham crackers in a baggy and whack them with a pan!). No new clothes, appliances, cable, etc., unless absolutely needed.
I've seen too many relationships crumble and generally fail because of money issues. One person is stressed about finances, or spends too freely, or doesn't agree about spending...no thanks. I'd rather be dirt poor and in my in-laws basement than allow something so petty to come between my husband and I.
Love, family, relationships > everything else. Money doesn't do much for my heart or my character, quite frankly.
@mckernae: I'm glad you were less lazy than me though, and found the actual link!! :D Although one thing I was really curious about - the article didn't mention if that $75,000 is just for one person, a couple, or a family of four. If it's per person, that makes it a much harder number to reach for most of us than if it's $75,000 per couple or per family.
@Just_Squeeze: Oh no, not at all. He had an unfortunate series of events that uprooted him and he basically had to start over. I could see it in his eyes that he was destined to do great things. It seems like you have the same instinct about your guy and where he is going in life. You are a smart woman for picking a great guy with potential and he is blessed to have a wife that believes in him. Life is good.
I somewhat agree. DH and I are both on marriage #2. We both had very comfortable lives with our first spouses. I never had to juggle money before. Then, my ex decided he "wasn't happy", left, and left me to pay all of the bills on my income alone... Reality check!
I have been at the very bottom, borrowed money from everyone & their brother. I have slowly gotten most of that paid off & begun to clean up my credit. DH basically has done the same. Over the past 6 years I've counted & accounted for every penny.
But, DH & I met, and we're both very happy. We don't have new cars, we live in a tiny townhouse, and we don't splurge very often (and by splurge I mean going out to a nice dinner, or buying gifts that are more than $25). However, we are approaching debt-free, our credit scores are rising monthly, and we have a small cushion in the bank. Yes, we still struggle sometimes when large, unexpected expenses pop up (neither of us have a credit card), but thankfully we have been blessed with family who has helped us out in these binds.
I never would have thought that I'd be in my 30's & having to rebuild, and neither did DH. But, we're both very very happy.
I do this there are two sides to everything. You shouldn't need money to be happy with your spouse. Like the examples above, what it he were to be laid off? Injured so he could no longer work? Lose his investments in the terrible economy? Would you still love him? I'd hope so. At the same time, as has also been pointed out, you have to have enough money to be comfortable, pay your bills and not worry how you're going to put food on the table every week. There's a reason wedding vows include "for richer or poorer," life has ups and downs and often cash flow is tied in there.
Would I be happier if we had more money? Maybe. I would have the ability to easily go back to school, take the time find a job that was more fulfilling to me and drive a car that I've wanted since I first saw if (BMW M3). I'm not unhappy now (though we make well above the magic number reference in the study) and I'm not sure how much happier another couple hundred grand would make me. It's possible I would feel differently if we made under the $75k the studies claims is the magic number, but I, on my own, make quite a bit less than that and was happy enough before I met FI.
TLDR; Yes and no.
@mightywombat: Ok, I looked it up, and the $75,000 number is for an INDIVIDUAL, not a couple. So, looks like I won't be reaching that any time soon!
@mightywombat: That's true! I wondered that myself. Poor reporting, Times. Poor indeed. I'm surprised that it's $75,000 per person. That's quite a bit more than I would have expected (or will ever hope to make, lol).
It also didn't really account for geographic/cost of living differences. $75,000 is a very different thing in NYC than it is in a small town in rural Texas.
Money on it's own doesn't matter. The ability to feel financially secure, and being able to afford what you need does.
@soon2bS: We are in a very similar place. My husband still has credit cards (and the debt to go with them:) but it's manageable. I am debt-free but I don't want another credit card in my lifetime. Cash is king! Well that, and I still don't trust myself...
But you must feel very good and proud to have come so far:)
I agree to a point--people need money to pay for the basics: food, shelter, utilities, etc. Above that, I think money almost becomes a background to your life. Issues with it are always there, but anyone who makes more than enough to get by will generally keep sliding their "getting by" number higher and higher. Does that make sense?
Fi and I are lucky enough to make more than enough to pay the bills and still have fun on top of it. To us, money does NOT matter. Even before I met him, I had enough, as did he. We never fight about money because we both have enough.
Now chores around those house... THOSE matter. :)
@mckernae: I agree with the NYC vs. small town. I earned like 40K while working in NYC and it felt like I never had enough money ever...some of my high school friends were earning half that in rural PA and had lovely homes, nice cars (not like crazy high end cars, but definitely nice) and seemed to always be going out.
I think Lorelei in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes said it best "If a girl is spending all of her time worrying about the money she doesn’t have, how is she going to find any time for being in love?"
The issue isn't so much whether you can be poor and still be happy because you are in love, but does the lack of funds make it so being truly happy, even with a wonderful person, is impossible.
I agree that if someone doesn't have enough money to make ends meet, they're not going to be very happy - or at least not as happy as they would be without debt and bills hanging over their head. That said, past the point where you are making enough money to live on, I don't think money matters for happiness. Maybe a little disposable income is nice so you can go out with friends and catch a movie now and again.
But overall I think the whole "Money doesn't matter, it doesn't buy happiness" school of thought it primarily directed at dispelling the notion that amassing a great deal of wealth is going to result in the greatest level of happiness. I know people who are very well off, but who are also some of the most miserable a-holes you'll ever meet. I also know people who are basically making enough to get by, and who are loving life.
So I don't think the "Money doesn't matter as long as you're happy" cliche is really meant to be interpreted as "Everyone get rid of your earthly belongings and take a vow of poverty." I think the ultimate point of it is that if you're making a sufficient amount to support yourself and your family, maybe the rest of your efforts from that point on should be to cultivate your personal relationships and live your life, rather than decided to start working 14 hours a day instead of 10 so you can make even MORE money and be the richest person you know. There are some people who think making as much money as humanly possible is the end-all-be-all of their existence, and I find it really sad. My FI used to talk about wanting to work a lot for the sake of making a crapload of money, and I basically told him once, that if we got married and started a life and a family together, no way in hell would he be neglecting our family so he could go make $200,00 a year because he thinks it would make him really really cool.
@burris4: 100% i completely agree with you. Let someone drop 20K in my lap right now a good bit of my issues would be alevated. Now I can fully acknowledge that money doesn't eliminate problems but it sure as hell offers up a variety of options. Of course issues relating to family dynamic issues, personality clashes or health problems are not necessarily going to be solved by money.
But everything else, hell yeah throwing money at it would help a whole lot. From what I read on the Bee a good 85% of the wedding problems - money is a driving force. Can't book a venue.. why....the deposit. Can't have wedding in a more central location, so you end up going hours outside of where you prefer to be..why...its cheaper. Future in-laws or parents helping you pay for the wedding are driving you crazy with their demands, its hard to argue why...well they are paying or subidising your event. BM/guests all complain about their expenses in relation to attending your wedding. Money, money, money. Its maddening. Money is intertwined in so many conflicts.
I know of a couple who have access to sufficent wealth and they are miserable as can be. I mean just agony. So clearly in their case, money doesn't matter. So i think its the balance of having the right partner, sharing similar values and having access to sufficent captial that make a relationship work. But I'll be damned if i'm gonna claim I that we only need love. Love is an essential foundation for a relationship. But the relationship can be influenced negatively or positively by money.
I don't think money has any weight on love (i.e. loving your SO less b/c they lost a job, don't make as much $, etc.) but does it have weight on overall happiness- Yes!
My husband often says that he is so much happier then when he was in college, because we have more & can do more. And I'll admit it, it makes me crazy, obscenely happy, that at 27 we own a beautiful home with a gorgeous pool, drive nice cars, and go on multiple vacations a year. Would I be just as happy in my relationship with my husband if we didn't have these things, of course. But I know I am more happy in my overall life because we do.
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The last day or so I have run into several people who have said things along the lines of "Having money doesn't matter, as long as you are happy" WTH? Everytime I hear someone say this I assume....A. They are really young. or B. Someone else is paying their bills. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that money is the end all be all of happiness but lets be honest, it makes life a lot easier to enjoy. It is difficult to enjoy life when you are behind on bills, your raggidy hoopty of a car is constantly breaking down, and you can't afford to do anything. I have been poor and I now have a very comfortable life. This is better. If one more person tells me that love is all they need my head might explode because I know for a fact the love tends to wear very thin under the constant stress of financial problems. I am 32 and am wondering if this attitude makes me cynical or realistic. What are your thoughts?