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I'm almost fairly certain that me finding a job is one of the requirements. Probably the only one, at that.
Or at the least, I'd feel more comfortable talking about engagement/marriage if I had a steady, decently-paying job.
Of course, everyone else keeps telling me to move to another part of the state, and I don't really want to work in any of those areas...
We both must have our undergrad degrees before I agree to get married. For as long as I can remember I have told myself that I would never be married as an undergrad.
I won't say we both have to have stable careers because I will be going for my phd and he will be going for his MD in psychology and both of us will be in school for quite a while. Also, while I am not dependent on my parents money, because of my age their income decides what kind of aid I get for school. Once I start working on a graduate degree then I will be totally independent of their incomes.
I know we will still struggle, as we will probably get married while both of us are in grad school, but I am ok with that because we will be working together towards a better life.
sula - this is totally my biggest fear! money is tight on my end, and i've been trying to get my act together for some time. but i think i'm just going to have to make some sacrifices. i think we're either just going to have to get married longer than i want to and that the wedding will probably be smaller than i always wanted.... i refuse to have debt from my wedding - i have too much already from student loans, etc. i think the trick is deciding on a realistic budget and savings strategy, and sticking to it.
I have dated a variety of men and after the last one (the one before my FI) I decided that they MUST have a job, and value education. I know for me personally it would never work if those two requirements were not fulfilled.
We wanted to get out of debt and have an emergency fund before we get married. I'm happy to say that we got out of debt at the end of the summer and have 2000 in an emergency fund! YAY! It feels really good to be starting out with a blank slate financially. (:
We're already engaged. But as a PhD student, I want to be a canidate before we get married. This means, finishing my course work (which will happen this Spring), sitting for my qualifiying exams (this summer). Which makes me really excited that there is truly a light at the end of the tunnel.
Then after the wedding I can focus on my dissertation.
oh we had several MUSTS. or should I say I did and he agreed. first, we had to graduate college. 2nd we couldn't be living at our parents house. 3rd we had to have been living together for at least a year. 4th we had to be financially independent from our parents (i.e. paying our own rent) and 5th we had to have some idea of careers. My fi and I are both students at the moment but we do work as well, in our fields of choice. I work full time and him part time while both going for our masters. So while we are independent, we still do have money struggles. I just thought these 5 requirements would help us because I don't feel I had any right to get engaged until I was an adult and I didn't think I could consider myself an adult until I was on my own and not depending on my parents.
Ours were
1. Being financially independant
2. Have a somewhat clear career path or goals drawn out
3. Have an agreement on where we're living in the long run, kids or no kids, and lifestyle.
We achieveed No.1 but not for long since both of us are planning on getting a PhD in the future-meaning leaving our jobs and income. But we talked this one out with our parents and both sides agreed they'd rather us get married sooner and they'd help us financially later if needed (we're lucky they are supportive).
No.2 we agreed to have constant discussions about changes and progress as we know things change along the way. We just try to talk about our goals and help each other out. This point was important for my SO before we got married because he felt that I would just jump in unplanned, sacrifice my opportunities and end up just following him around. He really did not want me to plan on being a housewife.
I'm not sure if we are totally on the same page for No.3 but at least he told me that he will respect my decision of how many kids and when since I'm the one getting pregnant. He reluctantly said it's ok if I didn't want any though.
I'm pretty sure he'll be waiting for me to finalize my college plans, and a few of my musts were promises to:
-Not steal our child every weekend when he visits his parents.
-Not deny me to renovate our home, whereever it may be (i.e. "Why do we need new counters? These aren't broken.")
-Not to be upset when I purchase my ridiculously expensive/unnecessary vehicle.
-That we maintain separate checking and savings accounts.
He, in turn, asked that I change poo diapers (he is poo phobic. Seriously.), not turn into one of those manipulative women once I get the ring, and to continue to be humble and happy.
Fair enough. :)
(My first post on Weddingbee! 
)
My boyfriend and I have talked a LOT about engagement and marriage requirements. He's 25 and done with his BBA, while I'm only 20 and still working on mine. He has told me that he doesn't want to get married until I have my bachelor's. (I was originally planning on a master's as well... but that changed recently) and I totally understand his point. We want to be equal partners, and we want a family. I don't want to have kids while I'm still in school. I want to be able to enjoy married life and family life without stressing about tests and papers. I also want to get a "real" job before we have kids and save some money, so I can quit and be a stay at home mom when we do have kids.
We have it all planned out, and he should propose within the next year, if he knows what's good for him. Lol
Interestingly, I work with a girl who's dating a guy who just got into chiropracter's school. She refuses to move in with him until they're married, because she would have to totally support them financially and she doesn't want to do that without the commitment of marriage. I totally understand her point, but he doesn't.
We definitely have a few musts before we get married. I'm already done with school and have a job, but he's getting his Master's. One of the things he wants to do is have a job, have a chance to save up money before he buys the ring. We both are the type that can't stand to have even a small a balance on our credit cards, and he doesn't want to take out a loan for my ring when he already has loans piling up from grad school. I'm okay with that, and I'm glad he isn't planning to throw himself into further debt.
The other thing we need to figure out where we are living when he graduates, since right now we aren't living in the same city. That will mostly be determined by where he gets his job since he will make 2-3 times more money than me.
With all that in mind I can't forsee getting engaged until late 2010 at the earliest.
As far as I'm aware we've managed to reach our goals. They were:
1) Finish univeristy
2) qualify
3) Save the money for the ring/wedding/house etc
We're long distance, but I want to be engaged before he moves over to be with me next year, and once he's moved marry soon after. We'll have enough for a deposit for a house with what we've saved by now, so anything more is what I consider wedding fund, there's another 11 months before we move so we can keep saving too.
Ours were,
1. Be finshed with undergrad (done)
2. Living together (done)
3. Have some money saved (still in prgress)
4. He wants to finish his Master's degree (almost done)
He was already settled with house, savings and a masters when we met. I was in the middle of grad school. We agreed that I'd have to find a full time job before we got engaged. Luckily I met my goal sooner than later!
First... I think it is a little funny that today we all want our acts together first, and marriage second. Back in the day people got married first, and got their act together.... together. Just funny how times change. :)
That being said I did the same thing. I wanted to graduate law school, get a job, live on my own for a bit, and feel like I was "making it" financially.
I'll be honest I don't think I'd be comfortable getting engaged to someone without a job or if I didn't have a job. It has never been an issue for me thankfully, but that would be a requirement. And other than that I just had to be sure that we were right for each other which included thinks like: Meeting each others families/friends, discussing future goals like living situation, kids, careers, Very importantly making sure our personalities clicked and we communcate well enough to work through tough times. FH met all these criteria and more criteria I never knew existed!
@CorgiTales: It is soo funny how times have changed, I guess back in the day- it was a given you'd "make it work." I guess that is not always true. :)
To all: Do you find your goals cumbersome, like they're in the way of you getting married, or do you feel like you're happy to create this "foundation?"
@sulaii211- that might be true! now it is pretty easy to get out and people too often go into marriage thinking they can just get divorced if it doesn't work out. Plus, I think, people expect marriage to be fun all the time and I think most couples who have been married for 50 years will tell you that you have to take the good times with the bad. :)
i didn't think my goals were too hard... but I met my FI when I was already half way done with law school. It only took me a little over two years from the time I met him to get my feet under me (and he already had finished school and had been working a bit when we met so he was ready at that point). If it looked like I was 3 or 4 or 5 years from my goals I don't know if I would have waited.
I'm constantly amazed at how many things I didn't think about before discovering Weddingbee. o.O
I didn't have any goals to reach before engagement because I never thought I would be engaged! He actually brought this up the other day, and said that he thought I wouldn't want to get engaged or married while I was still in school. It had never crossed my mind that it would be a problem! I figured it would be harder for me to plan a wedding while starting my career than it would be for me to plan a wedding while I was still in school, which I'm used to.
At this point, since I'm graduating next spring and my man is well established, I don't really have any requirements to fill. We have means of independence and an understanding of each other's future goals. Soooo...I'm really not worried about the future. At all. Maybe it's a bad thing, probably not. :)
i don't necessarily have any goals before engagement but definitely before i get married. i'd like to be more stable in my career path [had a bit of a rude awakening that's forced me to reasses things] and i'd like to finish my master's program as well. i really don't want to struggle financially as that adds so much strain on any relationship.
I agree with Corgi that the idea that you should be independent - have your degree, a car, a job - and generally "have your act together" before marriage is a new concept. And I don't exactly agree with it. I am a feminist and not particularly old-fashioned but the idea that you have to have everything all figured out in each of your own lives before you can get married, in my opinion, is not only unrealistic and unromantic -- it doesn't follow what the real meaning of marriage is.
For me, there is no need to hold off on committing ourselves to each other and starting our lives together until we have a certain amount of money in the bank or something. Marriage is about tackling life's issues as a team, not getting them out of the way first.
I admit I feel strongly about this because some have insinuated I am not "ready" to get married because I will not have a job on our wedding day, as I will have just graduated college. I am ready to spend the rest of my life with my FI and we are ready to support each other, come what may -- not come what may as long as there are certain things already accomplished. I feel like that is a sign we have what it takes to be married!
Of course, I understand that someone who has no idea who they are or what they want out of life might not be ready for marriage. But what you do and what you have are not always the best indicators of maturity or direction. FI and I know each other very well and he knows that I will pursue my career and contribute to our life. He's seen examples of my responsibility and ambition in other ways. I think identifying "X Y and Z" as markers of preparedness for marriage overlooks the ability to connect with and understand a person's character. My grandparents knew they would have a happy life together when they got married at 20 with nothing in their pockets. And they have been!
I think its great so many in the hive have goals and know what they want from their lives and their relationships, but all I'm saying is, don't judge others by your standards. FI and I don't have any "must have goals", and trust me, we will enjoy our first year of marriage just as much as those who do :)
For me all my pre-engagement goals were not so much life track/career/education goals as they were personal goals, dealing with inner self, etc. I've struggled with disordered eating since my teen years, and although I have always worked on it, I wanted to feel like it was truly behind me when I got engaged. I also wanted to feel like I was happy & confident with my career path... I just want to go into the marriage feeling good about where I am as a person. They money & degree stuff wasn't really important to me.
we are engaged now but it took 8.5 years..
we had numerous things that had to be achieved. My Fi had finished all his study and had a good job when I met him
1. I had to finish undergrad degree (finished in 2006 took 6 years)
2. Buy a house which we did at the end of 2007
3. I had to get a job in my career (decided to do my Masters instead, Fi ok with that) still doing them fin in June looking for work or work exp now.
4. Fi had to save enough for engagement ring which he did
5. We had to save for wedding as paying for it ourselves. Fi has already saved $16,000 so we should be set for our wedding this time next year.
@daniellemybelle- its a hard issue and a personal choice. I think that for a lot of people getting married anytime isn't a problem. I have my reasons for wanting to be independent.
First, my mom got married at 17. Her and my dad are happily married 30+ years later, but despite the fact that my mom has never WANTED to leave my father, I've always had to hear about how she felt like it wouldn't even be an option because she has no education, no career, and no independent friends really. She's always wanted it to feel like a choice to stay, rather than her having to.
Second, I met a guy at 17 I thought I was going to marry and spend five years with him. I was totally dependent on him and I wasn't a very happy person.
Some people don't need to have their act together before getting married to be happy; for me-- I just feel so much more confident about marriage knowing that I made it on my own first and I am CHOOSING to be with my husband-to-be.
Although I would be perfectly happy to be engaged right now...
I want us to be living in the same place (I'm moving there in June)
I am really self conscious about my teeth and want to get braces so I can have a fabulous smile whenever I get married (goal is to get an evaluation this January)
@daniellemybelle- I agree that there is no formula to this choice.
Weddings also aren't the ones of our grandparents; they didn't cost thousands upon thousands of dollars and put people in debt. Our grandparents didn't live with the divorce rate we do today. My grandparents married with nothing but dreams; they struggled until the day they died, but they loved each other and their family that's what counted.
From what I observe, this couple is that they're clearly in over their heads, (from the rent they pay, to their mortage-backed student loan and credit debt and their current financial situation.) They are a perfect match for each other but they are really stressed out. While I think their marriage is going to last- they didn't really enjoy the process of the wedding because they were stressing about costs. If anything, their marriage/wedding has set them back from their goals of buying a house,(their credit is ruined,) having a baby, (can't afford one,) and starting a career, (while she needs to find one, he is stuck in his lackluster job with no dreams to get out of it.) because right now their in "survival mode." Their particular situation is not romantic; it's dreary.
However, "just starting off" is a totally different story than "surviving." Debt means different things to different people/situations.This by no means is the picture of every couple who isn't 100% employed. It just got me thinking about getting into situations of preventable pain- because life in these times will have enough struggle and heartache.
I guess I put this question out there because values (especially lifestyle,) have changed over time, and they mean different things to different people and I'm curious to see people's opinions.
This topic also opens my eyes to different couple's "thresholds" and what that means to people. Please keep the comments coming!
Ours were:
1) Him find a better job - check
2) Me finish my master's degree - check
3) Own a house together - check
4) Be able to pay for the wedding without any debt - check
I think it is important to do it at the right time - good for you for setting goals!
Nope. I never thought getting married was going to make me drop out of college or something so it never made sense to me. How is the process of getting a job harder married then single? *shrug* Everyone is different.
I had three important goals before marriage. That I loved him. That he loved me. That we wanted to be together all our lives.
I have many important goals for my life but he's not an obstacle to any of them so I feel comfortable working on them as an engaged/married woman. I think earlier it was harder to get financial independence as a married woman because it wasn't expected but I think that no longer has to be true.
I've also alwas thought about career and personal life as running on two parallel tracks. Both equally important but not really interfering with each other.
I do understand waiting until you deal with some emotional issues etc. before you get married. There's also nothing wrong with "not being sure" until you live life on your own a bit, zero wrong with that. But if you are sure, I don't understand why wait.
Surviving is hard but it's even harder on your own. I don't think marriage is about being happy and settled, it's just a commitment to be with this one person not a particular lifestyle.
I realize I never contributed our goals!
1.) I want us both our realize our career paths before we merge families because it affects our families, like where my disabled mom might end up moving, who will help rear kids, etc. I also want him to choose his path because that is what he wants to do and it works out, not because it's something he HAS to do to support us. Whether that plan works out, who knows?
2.) I can't justify paying for the wedding I want with the debt on my book now. I'd like to pay it off so I don't burden him with a choice(s) I made years ago, and so we will have a clean slate for "together" debts, like a house. This goal it not romantic, it's really personal. He sees it differently, he thinks it's "our problem." It may be a team effort- but I don't want him legally tied to it, or brought down by it.
I think that's it. We have a great foundation relationship-wise, but not only do I think ourselves and our families would be more comfortable, (congratulatory?) with the merge once we had more of a gameplan in place. We look as the goals as something to accomplish before we go to the next step in our life, not neccesarily before we made a committment to each other, I feel like his cross-country move to be with me shows his committment. Our particular situation is a bigger picture than the two of us and sometimes we have to handle our obligations to our families, etc.
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My boyfriend and I have witnessed a strange wedding this summer where the bride and groom were struggling financially, (she's unemployed, he has a low-paying job.) They still got married, and now it seems like they can't enjoy their first year of marriage because they're struggling so much. They are my wedding turn-off/wake up call. I think we should wait. I have a lot of happy friends in marriage, and they seem happy because they had their act together first.
Are they're any goals that you MUST achieve before getting engaged or married? Did you ever look at another couple and think, "what's the rush?"