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I'm sorry it's so long, but I really could use some words of advice, please.
No, it's not required to include siblings in your wedding party. Your bridesmaids and groomsmen should reflect those who are closest and most supportive of you. If you think including him could potentially help heal your relationship, then go for it (IF your FI agrees!) If not, then don't feel guilty about not including him.
If I were in your situation, I wouldn't ask him. To me, a groomsman should be someone you really want by your side the day you get married, not just because other people think it's the right thing to do. Kudos to him for trying to turn his life around, but if you don't feel comfortable having him as part of your wedding, or you don't feel that you can trust him to commit, then I wouldn't because you will just be stressed. Your mom sees where you are coming from, so maybe your dad eventually will too. I would invite him to the wedding, express you would really like him to be there to share your day, and that's it. If he shows, great. If not, you don't seem like you'd be too heartbroken over it. I wouldn't chance the possibilites of stress this could cause you for your wedding. Have those you really love and want there stand by you. It's YOUR wedding, so do what is comfortable to YOU!
If your FI has no relationship with your brother then no he shouldn't bena groomsman. A groomsman is supposed to be someone the groom is close to and wants up there with him to support him, nor just someone who gets in by default. I have a brother and while we don't have the same relationship you and yours do, he is not in the wedding party. He is not part of my FIs closest inner circle. In the same way my FIs sister is not in my bridal party. Mine is actually all guys. But he should pick the people he is closest to not just someone who thinks they should be in simply because they are blood related with no relationship as foundation.
Do not feel guilty for doing what is best for you.
Just because someone is related to you doesnt give them a free pass to treat you terribly and then expect you to welcome them back with open arms.
None of my 3 sisters or 1 brother are in the wedding party. My brother and I had a huge falling out years ago due to abuse. Like your situation, we barely speak. It does not make sense to me to include someone i barely speak to in the wedding party.
There's no rule that siblings have to be in the wedding party. My brother wasn't one of my husband's GMs and none of his sisters were bridemaids.
Is your FI close to your dad? It might be easier if he, as the groom, took charge of communicating the decision, both because your dad can't really pressure him in the same way and because it's a reminder that the groomsmen are, well, the groom's choices.
@Corilee13: My dad says "groomsman" because he is a firm believer that all the bride's attendants should be women and all the groom's attendants should be men. He really just thinks my brother needs to be in the bridal party, and he says as a groomsman because it doesn't make sense to him for me to have a guy standing for me (which was another issue, but that's beside the point). FI doesn't really mind because his sister is one of my bridesmaids. So, unfortunately, we can't really play the "no relationship between FI and brother" card here. :-\
@GreenEyedMoon: Well, he can still play the, "I don't know him from a hole in the ground and don't like him very much," card. Or the, "I don't know him nearly as wellas I know Bob, and Bob has played a big role in my life," card. Or even the "Tough beans, man. My wedding party, my rules," card.
I didn't ask my sister to be a BM because she treats me like crap. She didn't talk to me for over a year, we can still barely stand being in the same room as each other. My whole family came down on me for it. I had a mental breakdown and wanted to cancel the whole wedding and elope, and I would have but FI refused. They had it in their heads her feelings were hurt, which is stupid. They only backed off when she emailed them and said she didn't care if she was in the wedding party.
My FMIL told me she got in a fight with her sister and kicked her out of the wedding party before her marriage to my FFIL. I asked her if she regrets it and she said NO. And her and her sister are close now.
I have no idea, none, how this could lead to regret. Even if some major event happens and we start to like each other, at this moment in time we do NOT, and it's better for my sanity and happiness that she not stand with me and be around me every moment of my wedding day.
My biased advice to you is to stand your ground! Frankly your FI should be picking his own GM, not your parents.
I think you need to do what in your heart you feel is right. You shouldn't put someone that could potentially make your wedding day uncomfortable in your wedding because someone is demanding it of you. Unless your father is paying for your wedding, he has no right to make such demands. Either way, you should tell him exactly how you feel and see what he says, because while he's thinking of the regret he felt by not putting his brother in his wedding, he's not thinking of the hardship he's putting on you by asking that you invite your brother to be in yours. All of that being said, your parents might be encouraging you to put your brother in your wedding because they think it could be good for his sobriety to feel involved and like you've forgiven him. And it really could be good for your brother to feel that. However, if it comes at the expense of your happiness on your wedding day, then that isn't what you should be doing.
(as a compromise I did ask her to give a speech at the reception, which should be an eye-rollin' good time. I don't know why people have to bring demands like this to a wedding that is not their own)
@teaadntoast: I don't think he's that close. Especially since my dad hasn't mentioned anything about it to me at all; everything I know has come through my mother. That being said, your second comment made me lol, and I think I love you.
@KoalaWalla: My dad isn't paying for the wedding, so no worries there. The only money he's contributing is for the DJ (and we can definitely pick up that tab if need be), and he's paying the price per head for his friends he wants at the wedding who I wouldn't invite otherwise.
I think you do what you and FI want to do. Could you maybe make him an usher? That still gives him a role, but I don't think he should be a groomsman based on what you wrote.
No, absolutely not. I believe you can forgive him for past offenses if you want to (maybe they were drug-related?) but you do not owe him a role in your wedding.
Your father is trying to sweep what happened under the rug, maybe in an attempt to have everything seem normal. Stand firm on this.
Your brother does not deserve to be part of your day in that respect. If you and him had a solid relationship (despite the abuse) and were close, it would be nice if he was a groomsmen, but you don't have a close relationship with him so he should not be one.
Your dad regrets not asking his brother, however I highly doubt his own brother abused him in the way your brother abused you.
Uh, no. Just no. Tell your dad it's not his wedding and that if him and your mom want to renew their vows he can be a groomsman for him at that time.
@med700: My uncle didn't. He and my dad didn't get along for the first twenty years of their lives or more, but now they're really close.
I'm going to talk to FI about it face-to-face tonight. Once we've made a decision, we'll approach my dad, get him to actually talk about it with us (like I said, so far, everything I've heard is through my mom), and then we'll be able to tell him our decision... Which will likely be us telling my dad that my brother and I have no relationship, he's never supported me and FI's relationship, and he doesn't deserve to stand with us. Then FI can play the "it's my groomsmen and I'll choose who I want" card if he needs to.
No, you don't have to do anything you feel uncomfortable with. My brother isn't even invited to my wedding, and I told all the family members that anyone who spoke to him about it was on my shit list. There's a long hurtful history there though, my brother is schizophrenic, which wouldn't be bad but he's violent and just a terrible terrible person.
Edit: Dang it, didn't realize it was 10 months old. Sorry!
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My younger brother and I don't have the greatest relationship. He was verbally and physically abusive to me when we were growing up. He sent me to urgent care on more than one occasion. The last time he did it, he and his friend pushed me down the stairs and hurt my leg so badly I couldn't walk. They stood over me and laughed while I laid there curled up in pain, and then they left me with no way to get help. He harassed me constantly. He made my life a living hell until I moved out after high school.
It wasn't just me, either. He was awful to my mom and disrespectful to my dad. He drank and did hard drugs. He stole from us and anyone else if he could get away with it. He lied about everything, and he dropped out of high school. He eventually ran away to California so he could find himself... And instead, he joined a meth den and almost caught AIDS because he was sharing needles.
Since then, he seems to have cleaned up a little. He recently celebrated one year sober with AA, and he got his GED in January. He's started taking some community college courses, and he's got a job.
I've forgiven him for what he did to me, but he also isn't really a part of my life anymore. I haven't seen him in three years, not since before I moved to Japan. I've only talked to him a handful of times since then, and not at all this year. I have nothing in common with him, and although our few interactions over the past few years have been friendly, they're not deep. We talk about the weather or sports or anything else that doesn't matter. I know I can't depend on him for anything, so I've given up.
When I was on the phone with my mom this morning, she told me that my dad has gotten it into his head that my brother should be a groomsman, and he's been going on and on the past few weeks about how it's not right that he isn't.
Part of the reason, we think, is that he really regrets that he didn't ask his own brother to be a groomsman at his own wedding decades ago because they didn't get along then, and he wants me to avoid that same regret.
I had this conversation with my mom months ago. I told her we weren't asking my brother to be a groomsman because of who he is and what our relationship is, and we wouldn't be able to rely on him to actually show up anyway. We planned to ask him to be an usher or something. My mom said she agreed and would probably make the same decision if she were in my shoes.
FI did ask me if he should ask my brother (who he hasn't seen or talked to since 2004); he said that he normally thinks siblings should definitely be in the wedding party, but he understood if we didn't ask him in this situation.
Now my dad is saying that we absolutely have to ask my brother. My mom says she still understands where I'm coming from, and she just hates being in the middle.
I don't know what to do. I feel so apathetic towards my brother. I don't think I would really care that much if he didn't actually make it to the wedding. I don't think I would be really heartbroken if I never saw him again. It's not that I'm that set against it... I just don't really feel anything.
On top of that, being a groomsman requires a certain amount of commitment and reliability, and I don't trust that my brother has those things. My mom said that he's gotten so much better this year, and she thinks he might actually be able to do everything he would need to do. I guarantee she wouldn't have said that six months ago. So maybe she's right. I don't know.
Should we make him a groomsman? I just don't know. If I feel so apathetic about him in the first place, how can FI and I ask him to stand up there for us? What should I do??? Please give me some advice. I could really use it.