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I'm starting to get over this, but thought I'd have a rant to everyone out there about my boyfriend's coniving ex! (We, as girls, know what other girls can be like!!) >:(
The thing is, I do feel a bit sorry for this girl, whom I shall call L. She is in her 30's and was with my boyfriend for 3 years, but bear in mind they broke up 3 YEARS AGO. She wanted to marry him, but he supposedly just said "no", and that he only saw her as a friend. In the last year of dating, they apparently didn't have sex because she refused to be intimate with him. She also treated him like a child.
Anyway, me and the boyfriend have been dating a year, but it's one of those situations where you just know he's the One! I fancy him, love him and he's also one of my best friends. I can tell him anything.
However, a few months ago (November) he left his Facebook on. I know I shouldn't have snooped, but I found messages between them throughout our entire relationship. Not only that, but they met up behind my back. I was so heartbroken to read these. Funnily enough, just as we began dating and became "Facebook official", the messages then started coming.
First of all, it was to ask if she could have her keys back for the flat they shared, as she was getting a new flatmate. So he then went and dropped them off (that I didn't mind, I just don't know why it had to be a secret). Then she'd send him things like, "I'm going on holiday, can you come and see me before I go?", "Really missing you and needing a chat", "I love you xxx", blah blah blah. He didn't reply and then she said, "excuse me mr., you're being a coward by not replying". He said he didn't want to hurt my feelings by calling her, but had dialled the number then hung up a few times.
I'd never even spoken about her or even knew much about her until this point, but she said "Oh, I would call, I just don't want you to get into any trouble..." - I never had a problem in the first place because I didn't know they were talking?!! She would continually write about her so-called 'problems', how she missed my boyfriend, etc etc, and he'd reply, giving her what she wanted, and telling her how special she is - i.e, attention.
What really upset me was when he wrote, "it was hard seeing you the other day, L. I will always have feelings for you and be bound to that emotion". Knowing they met up behind my back was so hurtful because obviously, I would have wanted to know what was said. It broke my heart.
Then her grandmother died. Let me assure you, she has a MASSIVE family who would've been there during that horrible time. But she sent him an email saying "my nan died last night, you were the first person I thought of. can we meet up?". BOLLOCKS WAS HE!!! But he went and met up with her then too. I just felt mocked, especially by her, who I'm sure was loving it. He even called her the same pet names as me. :(
I was livid, promptly broke up with him and told him to get fucked, and sent her an e-mail telling her she needed to move on because she was coming across as desperate. She sent me a message saying I was immature, that I was blind to see she only saw him as a friend (hmm, yeah) and that she "really wanted to be friends with me". Ermmm - not being funny, but I can't really say most exes and present girlfriends would choose outright to be friends with one another.
I have NO problem with my boyfriend having female friends. He insists he doesn't see her in THAT kind-of way, although let's be honest, the same can't be said back. One of them deleted eachother off Facebook which I was happy about and as far as I'm aware, they're not talking. (Although he weirdly still has her number on her phone). Apparently she would tell him things like "I want to die" which made him feel bad and that he had to be nice to her. I told him she's not his problem anymore. How can she ever fulfil her dream of having marriage and kids if he keeps replying and leading her on?
My boyfriend is keen to get engaged to me, keeps asking what ring I want and I've tried very hard to forget the things I read. But I've told him that the trust just isn't there yet.
What would you do?
He "Doesn't see her that kind of way" but writes her a message that says "It was hard seeing you because I'll always have feelings for you"? er, no.
He needs to never, ever EVER talk to this girl again, especially not behind your back. Otherwise, I think you need time to work this out before you get engaged.
@lovestoned_x: I would ask him how he honestly feel about her. I love my DH dearly but I know there is an ex I have that it wuold be hard to be around because I'm afraid of my emotions.
He needs to block her. Matter of fact, I would do it for him hehehe. It seems like he loves you and he is a bleeding heart trying to help her in life but she needs to be let go.
I would get back together with him but you two need to build back up trust. Take it slow. You can accept the ring and have a long engagement.
If there's no trust, there shouldn't be an engagement. I understand your anger towards her but he is at fault to. She wasn't holding a gun to his head making him respond or stop over. He did that, those were his decisions made by him alone. I would highly suggest couples counseling to get through this and work past this. Has he had any contact with her recently? How does he respond when you say you don't trust him?
@deathbydesign: Exactly...what was that line all about? Sorry, but he's pulling the wool over your eyes on this one.
Uh, he was with her for 3 years and said he just saw her as a friend? And now he's talking to her like "I still have feelings for you and I miss you"? I'm thinking not so much. Not only does the entire situation sound very high school, I think he has things to work out before making any commitments.
She might be "crazy" but he seems more than willing to keep buying into it.
If you have to ask you probably already know the answer. No, absolutely not.
My SO and I would have some serrrrrrious problems if he had said "it was hard seeing you the other day, L. I will always have feelings for you and be bound to that emotion". AND if he went and met up with her without telling me. So, I'd be the same--trust would be a huge issue for me at that point. Definitely wait on an engagement. No trust will ruin EVERYTHING.
I think you should dump him and walk out the door. I understand that you want to trust him but it's a little naive to continue to believe that this is all her being crazy and desperate and him just feeling bad and trying to be nice. He's participating 100%. He's seeing her behind your back. Don't even ask him why he lied, because you know he lied because it was shady. Honestly, don't blame her or call her desperate, he's just having his cake and eating it too. It'd maybe be desperate for her to contact him no matter how many times he told her he loves you and doesn't want to have a friendship with her, but he's hanging out with her and telling her he has feelings for her. She's really just acting on the signals he's sending her. I just don't think you should tolerate this treatment.
Sorry to be so blunt but you deserve better than this!
Why in the world would you ever, EVER take a guy back like this? He wrote to some other woman that he had feelings for her and always would. He snuck around behind your back. And now he is trying to promise you an engagement? ... Yikes.
No way. In fact, if I found messages from my SO to another girl like that throughout our entire relationship, I wouldnt' be with him long enough to talk about getting engaged. I have no tolerance for this sort of thing.
I think you are right to not want to accept a proposal until this is sorted out, however that may be.
ohmybears48 (message) September 28, 2013 Chicago, IL
Why in the world would you ever, EVER take a guy back like this? He wrote to some other woman that he had feelings for her and always would. He snuck around behind your back. And now he is trying to promise you an engagement? ... Yikes."
^^^I agree with this.
He was sneaky and not being completely truthful. Be careful!
absolutely not... do not get engaged because then you are telling him that all that behavior was excusable. Even if he felt bad for her, he was doing it behind your back. there is NO reason for that... at all. and I agree with deathbydesign - that one line is very disturbing. I won't say all is lost, but I agree with other posters that counseling might help and there is no way you should get engaged at this point. it's almost like he's trying too hard to prove his devotion after being caught. he needs to NEVER talk to her or see her again and regain your trust. sneaking around is a very bad behavior and has no place in a relationship no matter how he "feels" about her.
I woudn't believe for a second that they have no feelings for each other. For one, you never REALLY sotp having feelings for an ex, but that's ok. What's NOT ok is talking to her that way, the things he said, etc. I don't blame you for not trusting him and I would just be flat out honest. Tell him that you would love to marry him, but that you don't think that you guys are ready because of this issue. Asking him if he has feelings for her won't go anywhere in my opinion because he will say what you want to hear, it won't give you any kind of honest answer.
"it was hard seeing you the other day, L. I will always have feelings for you and be bound to that emotion"
Ok, I'm going to play devils advocate here. When you are with someone for a long time and it doesnt end in complete hate and never speaking again, I think that can always be felt. The problem is that it was said to her and read by you. I was with my ex for 6-7 years. I wouldnt choose to meet up with him or see him, but I dont hate him and he is he a good person. We just werent meant to be. I will say that I will always have a soft spot for him and care for him. I've run into at work (we work at the same company different sites so I normally dont see him) and when I do, those past emotions do come back to the surface for that split second. It means nothing except that such strong past emotions may not completely ever go away. I still love and am completely faithful to my husband, but that doesnt mean an ex that was once such a big part of my life is suddenly lower than dirt.
I think the problem here is not how he felt about her, or how he has a tiny piece of him that will care about her, but how he handle the situation with dealing with her and sneaking around to see her.
@KatyElle: I think your right. It's very easy to cut someone out of your life if it's what you really want
I think it is one thing to keep in touch with an old girlfriend or boyfriend, but this is something that he was HIDING FROM YOU. He KNEW it was wrong and he still did it. That says enough in an of itself.
If you feel the relationship is salvageable then you wil most likely need to get some form of counselling and it will take a long time to rebuild that trust, then you'll need to set ground rules for things like that.
Not to impose my own personal beliefs (and the ones that govern my marriage) on other people, but I do not think that married couples (or engaged) should be spending ANY time alone with members of the opposite sex. That's just me and my old fashioned ways and that works best for my Husband and I!
Good luck to you. You're going to have to do what is best for you in the end without compromising who you are as a person and your own values system.
The trust is gone. You say you can tell him anything, but he obviously withheld information from you. If you want to keep seeing this guy you should NOT get engaged any time soon, not until you know that you can trust him and that he will be faithful to you.
I have to say that I would not have patience for this, although at one point, I almost did.
Years ago, when I first started seeing my fiance, he had an ex-gf that just would not quit. She would call, email, facebook message, stalk, just about everything- and I mean everything. We were all on the same college campus, and she would re-work her schedule to be walking past us all the time to engage us, when I legitimately had never seen her in my entire time at school before that point. She called whining, she called drunk, she called with many a crisis and it just did not stop. He was nice and tried to help her at first, and then came the emails that sounded very similar to your situation about 'feelings for each other.' Let me tell you, I saw these emails when using his computer for school one day (one popped up in gchat so I could see the thread), and I just about lost it. I told him to f off and that I was not some emotional punching bag or girl that would take being laughed about behind her back by his ex. That I was awesome and CHOSE to be with him, was not forced- and he should get a clue before contacting me again.
The next day, he called me and he broke down. He told me she was making him so uncomfortable and was so hateful about me, and he just didn't understand why someone who wanted to be his 'friend' wasn't happy for him.
He sought counselling, and within two sessions he told her over email that a relationship is about making that person the priority, and that if she had anything to contact him over in the future, she should contact US directly- not him. She has tried a few times over the years, and every time just to him (surprise surprise), and he forwards them to me immediately.
This girl was fishing for this situation to stroke her ego, and given your SO's lack of remorse in this situation- and how it has gone on during your entire relationship- it seems like he was equally fishing to boost his ego and has a serious issue with telling the truth. I am sorry and I don't know what to say here, but if I were you I would stick with your gut reaction and let him prove to you that he deserves the absolute gift of your time and attention in the future as he sure has a lot to prove given this crap.
The issue isn't the girl, it's him. She's being manipulative, sure, but in this situation, the right thing to do was to say no. He didn't. He's hugely betrayed your trust. Personally, this would be a deal breaker for me, but I don't know your relationship or your boyfriend. I think you did the right thing by dumping him. Even if you do end up eventually marrying, it shouldn't be any time soon. You guys need to sort this out first.
I am going to say, he isn't ready for marriage. A man, a good husband wouldn't have handles the situation like that. It was disrespectful to you. I am not saying don't marry him, i am just saying actions speak laouder than words and it is gonna take time to see how it plays out...like will he cut her out. I would never ever ever see an ex behind my FI back, cause...ther's nothing to hide! And if it would make my FI uncomfortable i would respect my FI. I keep in touch with an ex and have had talks with my FI about it. We set boundries so I know what he is ok with and I would never (GAG) tell my ex im always gonna have feelings for him. Though I will have a soft spot for him um, yeah I would never say that. Good luck, follow your gut.
No way. There's absolutely NO REASON for your BF and his ex to be communicating like this. He isn't just being nice, or whatever. His going along with it is encouraging her. Let me put it thos way -- I have my share of exes, and while I still think they're all nice guys and care about them on some level, I do not communicate with a single one of them. It's that simple. I've chosen my DH, and that's it.
This is not the kind of thing you ever want to have to think about. He's not ready.
I disagree with PPs saying you should just leave your man. It will take time to rebuild trust, absolutely--does that mean you should just get up and walk out the door, giving up on something so great? Absolutely NOT! Yes, he has to make either of the following decisions:
As far as the following comment:
"it was hard seeing you the other day, L." First off, I presume this was said within some context after she had already mentioned her sadness towards seeing him?
Secondly, OF COURSE, it is hard seeing someone you spent 3 years of your life AND had an intimate relationship with nonetheless. Even the loss of a best friend after 3 years of solid friendship is hard. The point is, it's over. He KNOWS its over. He didn't do anything with her sexually, he didn't cheat on you. He felt bad for someone that he once cared about and tried to be there for her because he is human. I think everyone else is reading too much into it. It's not like he took her out to coffee, on a date or anything. He went there to deliver a key.
What to do NEXT: He needs to know you are serious that this cannot happen again if he wants to be with you. Surely, the thought of losing the person he is currently in love with will be much greater than the loss of this woman. He just needs to be "put in his place" and deal with the reality of his consequences for speaking with this woman. He cannot have the best of both worlds. Trust me when I tell you, he will change and he will change overnight.
As for you...it will take time to rebuild trust. He needs to accept that. I do not think this has any relation to his ability to commit to you, if anything it changes how you might feel towards him. He did not sleep with this woman. Sometimes in life we are just faced with the challenge of what is the right or wrong thing to do in situations that deal with other peoples emotions. This woman is very manipulative, IMO and taking advantage of the kindness of your own man, I mean come on using death as an excuse to see him--what normal person wouldn't atleast TRY to comfort the girl? Of course when your in the moment, you don't realize it is just a means of manipulation.
My point is---Once you put your foot down and let him know if he continues to speak with this girl, you are GONE! this thing will end in a heartbeat.
SO, your guy has basically carried on a relationship with his EX of 3 years during your WHOLE relationship.. and you think she is the problem?
I'm really sorry yo're dealing with this. But I'll repeat the words a wise friend once said to me "most of the time when people ask for advice, they already know the answer but want a different one." :(
Its sad when girls do this to each other - you're blaming her entirely, but it takes two to tango. She isn't just a "bitchy ex" - she's a human being with emotions, who probably feels manipulated just like you do.
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but if he didn't want to talk to her and see her, he wouldn't. Simple as that. Unless she is holding a gun to the head of a puppy or something, he is carrying on with her because he wants to. And the fact that he's doing it behind your back means there is probably more going on than you know.
If you get engaged, you're sending the message to him that you accept this kind of behavior, and you should know you deserve better than that. Please don't set yourself up for heartache.
Getting back together or not is your choice...
But if I were you, I will definitely take it slow before you guys commit an engagement. Clearly you guys have trusting issues which is one of the essential foundation to build a lifelong relationship.
If it happens to me and the guy wants to get back together. You gotta ask yourself: what was the reason he keeps getting back to her (at this point I assume no infidelity had going on). I also assume it's the girl that approached him. She did all the moves...and your bf was being passive in this whole encounter thing.
and then ask yourself: if put you and that girl in front of him right now, would he hesitate to pick you out? Do you have faith that he will pick you instead of her?
okay, if you feel that he is just being "too nice" to his ex and don't know how to reject the ex's request and he does love you more than the world.
Then honestly tell him how he intends to do with this girl? I mean, as a gf/wife, I can't constantly thinking in the back of my head that he might be meeting up with the ex or having all kinds of conversations with him when I know they can't be just normal friends. He has to do something to ease my mind. If I have to check on him all the time and sneak around with his FB or cell phone or emails to make sure he is not "cheating", I don't think your relationship will last very long.
If he loves you enough, he knows how to protect your feelings being hurt. He knows what to do. If he is not man enough to do what it takes...honey, he is not good for you.
I would be out the door if I were in your situation. He was secretive and somehow kept from telling you about her, the messages, the meetings...that to me is shady. You don't deserve it. This would not be acceptable if you were married and should certainly not be acceptable even now. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice..shame on me. Walk out that door and find the man that treats you how you deserve to be treated!
I have had friends whose boyfriends were still in contact w/their ex's, and also had a grandmother's passing...never good. It's awful to think about, but at one point, he was IN love with her, maybe he still does love her in some way, since they were together for 3 years and since he can't seem to tell her to leave him the hell alone. I don't snoop, but I do believe in full disclosure...simply not telling you that she contacted him, is an issue. Then he's been messaging her and seeing her? To be totally honest, I would feel cheated on. I'd feel manipulated and made a fool of...You need to dump him, now. Don't listen to his BS...if he was a keeper, he would have told her he's happy and to never contact him again...but he didn't. You can do better than that...it's too much nonsense for me. There should never be a question of loyalty, and that kind of trust just doesn't come back.
@MrsNeutrino: Seriously...so right.
this girl probably sees you as taking away HER man...they dated for 3 years, and you've only had him for one. I'm sure she thinks she's still his #1, and he's just fooling around with you.
Calling you the same pet names as her, that's pretty messed up. Definately sounds they are more than just friends.
Your boyfriend is in the wrong. He's not some helpless puppet with no intelligence who can't resist the temptation of replying to her or meeting up with her. He obviously likes to be flattered by other women, and cannot resist the temptation of letting that flattery go beyond what is acceptable in a relationship. You can keep telling yourself that it's because she seems helpless and he's just "such a nice guy" but if you do that honey, you are the one who will end up feeling like a fool.
RED FLAGS. I would think twice about marrying this man.
I know you probably don't want to hear this, but I'm going to +1 PPs who said the problem here is your boyfriend.
I would not get engaged to him yet. He's clearly not being a man about this, because he did this behind your back and because it sounds like he was stringing this girl along (even if she initiated it). If you rebuild the trust, maybe someday it can happen, but do you really trust him enough right now?
One thing to keep in mind...how much do you know about this girl from a source other than your BF? You already know you can't trust him entirely, because he met her behind your back. Can you trust what he says about her? Clearly she's not trustworthy either since she's maintaining that she just wants to be friends, but that doesn't make BF a saint.
@pinkshoes: I'm with you.
I think there is a lot of overreaction going on among the PPs. It sounds to me like your BF has a heart and a soul. When you care about someone for a long time, even though you may not want to be with them anymore and you may not love them in that way anymore, the emotions take a long, long, long time to fade. When a breakup is nasty and mean, sometimes that helps you put those emotions aside while hate and anger take over, but they are still there even then. I think it's a good sign that he has sympathy for someone he used to love, and I'm not at all surprised that he still has an emotional connection to her. They were together for THREE years. He'd have to be a cold hearted bastard to not feel anything, especially when her grandmother died, and she--knowing he is a nice guy--took advantage, but it sounds like nothing untoward happened, except that he didn't inform you about it. And whether he should've told you or not is one of those things that men and women often see differently and that different couples often see differently too.
I do agree that he didn't handle this in the best way possible, but neither did you. You totally violated his trust by reading their messages, messages he probably kept from you because he felt like he was handling it and there was no reason to upset you. I think the proper thing for you to do is communicate with him, tell him that his way of trying to protect you from this actually ended up hurting you more. I think you need to calm down and stop freaking out. You are behaving from your own description like a jealous teenager. I'm sure that's not the type of woman or partner you want to be. Not only do you as a couple need to analyze his behavior, but also your reaction.
Where your mistaken is that if a guy has a "heart and soul", he doesn't do those things behind his current girlfriends back and go out of his way to hide it from her.
If he had nothing to hide, he wouldn't be hiding it.
@mandypop: I don't agree. I think he was simply misguided in why he kid them from her. Men often make the mistake of thinking that they are protecting us when they do such things. I think the OP should communicate with him and let him know that he was wrong to think that regarding her.
@brenda.m.fields: I do agree that sometimes guys hide things because they think they're protecting us and not because they feel guilty, but the thing that really gets me is that he uses the pet names.
You can have a heart and soul without calling someone "darling" or "sugar" or "sweetheart" or "love" or whatever. Falling back into old patterns is understandable but the second he saw himself doing that, he should have broken off contact. Perhaps it is a simple case of mishandling, it's just hard to know. I know I'm biased because I got a "back off" email from a gal who apparently only knew me as the crazy ex (right down to the "refusing to be intimate for long stretches of time"); the thing is, he had emailed me several times but I had moved him to spam and never read a word from him once the divorce paperwork was filed properly (he intentionally messed up quite a few things with that to delay the process).
What happened was that she had found an email in his "sent" folder that was pretty much the same old "I think about you all the time, I miss you, you mean the world to me, I wish things had gone differently," blah blah blah and he explained it away that I was crazy and bugging him and he was just trying to make sure I didn't kill myself (interestingly enough, she did want to know my side about why we got divorced and apparently they're broken up now. Whoops). When I thought about it, he had told ME about a "crazy ex" and I'm beginning to think she was no crazier than I am. I know this isn't the same case, it just puts up alarm bells for me now when the only account of the crazy ex comes from a guy who is acting suspiciously.
This guy's ex is clearly angling to get him, but I think there's merit to the sentiment that he's been stringing her along. The OP needs to figure out if he's being honest or if he's hiding something still; no one can tell her which one it is, but I don't think the OP acted irrationally or like a jealous teenager to not accept her boyfriend meeting an ex who is trying to get him back without talking to her about it first.
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