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My FI could have written that post. I am horrible with money. I have just handed all that responsibility over to FI. I just write a check when he tells me to.
If you're willing to manage the finances, I would do that immediately. I manage our day-to-day stuff and my fiance does long term stuff. It works well for us because he is bad about remembering to pay the utilities, or other "small" bills because he just forgets about them.
This is a tough one. If you have joint expenses, cc's, etc you may have to take over to protect yourself.
Is he open to counseling?
You could make up a schedule for him, or at least have access to his account. Also, there is always bill pay and automatic transfers to savings and such. Show him how to set those up, and then he won't really have to think about paying his bills. Once I showed my dad how to do all that, he loves to pay bills!! My mom loves it too cuz now she doesn't have to do it, lol.
To be sexist here- if your car wasnt running right who has more expertise fixing it?
Marriage is a team effort- we each go with our strenghts. If he is willing to give you full disclosure with finances- take it and run allll theeee way.
thats my .02
This is a tough one.
On one had you don't want to just do it all for him but it does need to get done. I would suggest taking things over at this time. Talk to him and maybe try to agree that you will do all the up front work but he still has to at least be willing to stay involved in what is going on and be committed to the plan. Set up a good budget and a plan. Try weekly or monthly meetings to let him know where things stand.
Over time (meaning LONG time) try to hand some small things back over to him. Something like, ok you have an extra $100 in the budget every month. How do you want to handle it.
Getting out of debt is hard but it really just requires committment to a plan. Kudos to you for working at it!
@SoontobeMrsA: Same way.
It's not that I don't care, things just always seem to work out. FH is also in finance and it killed him the first time I showed him my credit card statement from nordstroms. It was at that point he basically DID treat me like a child and told me I couldn't do things like that if I wanted a life with him. Was it harsh? YES, but was it right? Absolutely. We also agreed that he is much better at money and we use the system that he is allowed to open my mail and keep tract of my spending. It helps us both. FH has managed to get me at least 15k out of debt.
@almostmrsbearcub: This would be a deal breaker to me. The issue is not about expertise. It's not like he's TRYING to get out of debt but needs help with learning how to set up a budget. The issue is one of maturity and responsibility. If he is THROWING OUT important information from his credit card companies then he has just decided he doesn't care. He's just going to deal with whatever happens. I couldn't share my life with someone who I couldn't trust to share my finances.
Wow! I feel like we are in similar situations! I am just like you, about to be 26, ofcourse no accountant, but pay bills, on time, responsible, I will die before I am ever charged a late fee! but FI, he never pays rent on time, bills, and like letters will sit on the counter, and I have to fuss in order for him to do it!! Ah drives me insane!! Honestly, the only time we fight is because of bills/finances!! Its not he doesn't have the money to pay, but he always makes excuses like I don't have time, I am busy, blah, blah!! He always says take over my finances and you pay and stuff. My aunt (role model for me) always said she did that for her husband bc she wanted to feel in control, just like all us ladies, and now my uncle can't even balance a check book!! She said don't ever ever try to take over the bills aspect bc the man get lazy and don't care no more and you have worry worry and stress and get greys lol Anyways point is I am not taking over the bills, I want him to become responsible and you know learn to that stuff!! AHHHHH!!
Edit: My fiancee is in no debt, he just forgets to pay bills all the time!! Like his rent I have to remind him everyday until he does it!! Drives me insane!!
I see no problem with taking over the bills.
I did and our life is a million times better.... I am just much better at finances than he is. He is better at other things. I don't see it as a problem at all.
One thing that helped was I got a white board that is a calendar that we keep in the kitchen. That way I KNOW FI will see it. Each time we get a bill I put down when its due and how much, doing so eliminates the "opps I forgot to pay that surprises"
Another vote for taking over both your finances, if you're both willing. I handed over my my money and bills years ago, and it has made a major difference in our relationship and my credit score. :)
Also, I don't necessarily agree that this situation is about maturity/taking responsibility unless your Fi acts like this in other areas of his life. If he is normally responsible and mature, and it's just finances he slacks on, it might just be an issue where he feels so overwhelmed or incompetent he'd rather ignore it than address it head on. Of course, if he is really irresponsible in other areas of his life, it might warrant a more serious discussion.
I think you definitely need to take it over ASAP.
HOWEVER, he should realize that he can't just continue being financial irresponsible, money is always a huge issue in marriages, especially if spouses have vastly different habits.
I'd worry that his lack of motivation shows that he isn't concerned about debt and doesn't think it's an issue that needs to be dealt with. That shows a lack of maturity. If you were taking over finances because you were just more organized that would be fine but you're needing to do so just to keep him from continuing to go into debt. What's to stop him from over-spending in the future? Is he irresponsible in other areas of his life?
I think that he needs a wake up call that his actions (financial or otherwise) will effect you BOTH in the future.
Absolutely agree with camrie. I don't know if it was mentioned yet, but once you're married, his debt is also your debt and will affect your credit score as well.
I think you should take over the finances but I also think he needs a wake-up call.
His bad debt can prevent you two from getting a loan or other things in the future.
He needs to see it and understand it.
@AprilJo2011: That's only true in a few states (community property states). In most states she'd only be responsible for those debts they enter in to together. I'd take over the finances, but I also wouldn't purchase anything huge without knowing you could pay it yourself if you needed to. Like a house or a car. Try making sure he's financial more responsible, and then go for the bigger purchases together. You wouldn't want to get stuck paying for a mortgage you can't afford.
When my fiance' (now husband) and I moved in together and starting sharing finances I came across the same thing and ended up taking over all the finances and he was totally fine with it. I now pay all the bills and we talk about any purchases larger than $100, it seems to work for us...
As an FYI, you're not in a community property state:
Special rules apply to spousal property and income in the community property states:
@almostmrsbearcub: I'm our accountant. If he says he is okay with you taking over then take over. Our checking account is audited everyday. If he wants to get a Xbox game, everything else has to be paid first before I give the green light. If it didn't work this way then we would always be in the red. He had a cigarette budget (which is now over since he quit the 1st of the year) We had an eating out budget because if we didn't, he would nickel and dime us with the McDonalds dollar menu.
I agree with what so many people have said! Marriage is a strength based relationship - each partner should do what they do best to the best of their abilities. Maybe he's really wanting you to take all of this pressure off of him and assumin finacial control and just doesn't know how to say that. I think he also needs a wake-up call about loans, house buying, etc etc. Could you guys schedule a meeting with another accountant? I say another accountant b/c we tend to go all Old School Charlie Brown teacher voice when we hear the same stuff over and over again from our partners. Maybe another voice would help? Good luck!
Okay I'm seeing two different sides. On YOUR side: I actually see alot of myself. I am definetly more of the financially responsible one. How we fix that is I take over the bills. That doesn't mean though that we don't pay a late fee every so often. I actually just wrote a post a few hours ago about my student loans. I know I am a few thousand in debt because of those. For my husband and I, it's a team effort. Where one of us lacks, the other takes over.
On HIS side: I know how hard it is to get out of debt. You being an accountant, money is second nature to you. For someone like me (or your FI) who has no expertise in the financial field, money doesn't come as easy. Sometimes it is easier to throw away the bills instead of look at them. Money does crazy things to people and can most definetly send them in an emotional and financial downward spiral. He doesn't like being in debt. No one does but this is where YOU his soon to be wife comes in. He needs you in this area. YOU need YOU in this area for him. Soon, you guys will be one. Meaning; Most his finances will relflect you in some way too.
You either have the option to take over, teach him or walk away.
@almostmrsbearcub: Your future financial stability as a married couple is seriously on the line here. It is in both of your best interests to allow you to manage the money and dig both of you out of this hole. Every horrible thing he does right now will drag both of you down every time you need to make a purchase requiring a loan, not to mention the money he is burning on fees and interest that could be invested and saved for future security and big purchases. He needs a reality check, and I think you need to give it to him. Otherwise....money is the #1 cause of divorce.
@lola2011: Even if it isn't community property, his inability to monitor and stay on top of debt and payments is drastically eating away at what could be substantial savings for them. It could go towards paying a mortgage, putting in investment accounts, etc. Just because his debt wouldn't necessarily be put on her in a divorce in no way implies that she and they would not greatly benefit from this getting under control.
@crayfish: Agreed. But the comment I was replying to was someone who was saying she would be responsible for his debt once they are married. And she wouldn't be. I think it's important to make that clear to her.
Money issues are such a major cause of divorce because they're never really just money issues. The source of money issues is usually emotional or psychological. Rarely is anyone ever actually physically or intellectually incapable of organizing their bills and setting up a system of reminders, or checking their account balances regularly, etc. The problem is, some people plain don't want to. They don't care, or they're afraid, or they have some other emotional block that causes them to get into money trouble over and over again.
On one hand, taking over someone else's finances is just a small hassle. It's going to take some extra work on your part to monitor all his bills and track his spending. That's fine and dandy. But it doesn't really solve the problem. You're just intervening to mitigate the effects of the problem. If I were you, I'd want to know why he has such a hard time with financial responsibility. I'd want to know why because I'd want to know if this "money issue" is really part of a bigger issue.
I know there are plenty of couples who do great with one person monitoring all the finances. But as one of the major causes of divorce, it would be unwise not to look deeper into the problem. I have a friend who is awful with money. Her FI has threatened to call off the wedding and leave her for good if she doesn't get her money issues sorted out. But it's not that simple. It's almost never that simple. Because money is often the symptom, not the issue itself.
Her FI has basically put her on financial lockdown. She's still badly in the red, but at least she's not digging any deeper. Still, the root of the problem remains and it's rearing its head in other ways. The second he eases up, she'll be right back where she was, spiralling into debt. He's basically going to have to babysit her accounts for the rest of their lives. And they still fight about money. All the time. Is that what you signed up for?
I'm not terrible with money but DH is an accountant so I've handed most things over to him. I still pay my credit cards but he tracks it on a spread sheet and keeps us on track. I'd say take over the finances if he'll let you, but you two should also have a discussion about how things will be run in the future after you're married so you're both on the same page.
it's not necessarily a maturity issue. can he AFFORD to keep up with all of his minimum payments and bills, let alone set aside some savings? sit down with him a make a budget, then help him stick to it.
he's young. he probably made some bad financial decisions because he didn't really know better...i know i did. it's really hard to realize that you're in the hole and can't keep up with payments. there's the chance of a mentality of "well, i'm already this far in the red, how much is one more late payment going to hurt my credit score?"
have him look up his credit score. explain how a credit score works. i never fully understood these things until i had to go buy a car. you're an expert -- help him out! try not to be judgmental...he can't magically reverse his credit card spending. he needs support from you to understand the predicament and change his ways.
Honey, I completely understand where you're coming from. COMPLETELY. We're the same way. I'm the responsible one with money while my husband is more fluid with it. He just doesn't think about it the way I do.
Eventually with his blessing I took over our finances and started giving him an allowance. Yes, an allowance. Sometimes I feel too maternal but you know what? I stopped having anxiety attacks, his credit greatly improved and we were able to buy a house, and I no longer resent the fact that I can't spend any of our mad money on me because he spent it all on him because he didn't keep track. The system works. If he's cool with it, take over!
My DH wasn't good at remembering to pay his bills since he wasn't used to that responsibility & no one ever taught him financial skills. I've been paying all my own bills since I was 16, so I'm good at it. Why is it that your FI doesn't pay things? Is he not used to doing that? Usually its because no one taught him, so its probably something that you'll have to work on together.
At 1st, every time that happened (then-FI would forget to pay something & then get late fees & overdraft fees) I'd just get really mad at him & he'd feel bad. I didn't want him to feel bad, I wanted him to change. I told him it affected his credit & therefore, mine when we got married & it made things more difficult, such as buying a car or house. He tried, he just wasn't very good at it.
What worked for us: I took over all the bills when we got married. It was a little hard on me, because I had my bills, plus our bills & his bills, however nothing was ever late. He only had to pay 1 bill a month & I asked him about a week before it was due if he'd paid it. He would put all his money into our joint account & not touch it, so I wasn't using my money for his bills. Its our money now, I don't keep track of who contributes how much, just that as long as all the bills are paid & we're both contributing all our money into our joint account. We also set aside a certain amount of money each paycheck as our "fun money". He would get $20 for his spending & I would get $20 for my fun spending ($20 isn't the real $ amount, just for an example), the rest went to bills, after that to joint things (such as dates or things for the house), but his $20 fun money was for whatever he personally wanted that wasn't for "us", like a dvd or game, etc.
Now, DH is getting much better at financial things. I like it that I handle all the bills, it makes things easier. We make all money spending decisions together (except for the fun money). We look at it as "our money" instead of "your money, my money, our money", that just got way too hard & stressful.
My advice: take over the bills for now. Decide on a good "fun money" amount that you both agree to. Once the bills are low/paid off & you aren't spending as much money a month on interest, you can both have more "you money & fun money" every month. Work things out together. Talk about budgeting in a constructive way (don't put him down). I would get his credit card bill & calculate/show him how much money he spent on interest/late fees/ etc last year. Likely he's overwhelmed with how much money he owes & its hard to look past that. Showing him how much interest he accumulated last year & then showing him a budget & payment plan for this year will show there is a goal. The key is to work on this together instead of making it about "you did all this wrong", it makes him feel like a failure/ that he's letting you down. Don't call him names like "idiot". When you try to accomplish something because you feel bad & you're put down, you don't really learn much. When you try to accomplish something because of the good that will happen & you see the possitive outcome & you have support, that will make a world of a difference. (EDIT: Not saying that you call him names or that you make him feel bad now, just something I learned & even how you word things can make a huge difference, like "I can't believe you did that" becomes "we need to change things, lets make sure next time we do things like this instead").
Another thing, if he has 5 credit cards (an example, IDK what kinda debt he's in), every time 1 is paid off, celebrate. It will help him look forward to this & give him a goal. Maybe when all 5 are paid off there is some fun trip that you will take together. Tell him with all of the interest he's saving by paying things off, you can use that money for a some kinda splurge.
I'm sorry I wrote so much, I just went thru something similiar so guess that's why! Just remember, you are a team. There's gonna be things that he's better at, so let him do those things & over time teach to you. Just like financially, you'll have to take over & show him. If you simply take it over & don't show him, he won't learn. Anyways, good luck!!
I feel like I am reading a story about me and my hubby! When I first met my hubby - he was the same way as your SO. I couldn't figure out WHAT was the deal - lazy? didn't know what he was doing? careless? I finally started asking questions - and his parents are HORRIBLE with money - they never made a good example for him.
So I made it my goal to make a good example for him. I showed him how to pay things online and take care of business! Sometimes men just need a little push!
Maybe your SO is the same way? Just needs to be led by example!
Good luck!
J definitely worries me. "Oh, the cell phone bill is due? Oh well. I don't have the money so screw it. I'll pay when I can." He doesn't care if his car will get repossessed, etc. This all happens when he is laid off or his check is short. Which is happening a lot more lately due to his boss's business problems. But he's very responsible when he's getting paid regularly and not getting screwed out of money. I do want to take over in the future (in fact very soon) so that I can keep track. His credit is already pretty bad and he can't keep shrugging things off. We eventually want to move into together, but if he keeps this up, it'll all be on me. Sigh... I try to talk to him, but it doesn't matter. I hope this is going to change sooner than later.
All in all, I hope it works out for you as well. It's no way to live.
I can totally relate to your post. My husband used to be the same way. How did we get through it? Opened a joint checking account and I paid all the bills and we talked about almost every purchase. Today he's a lot more responsible, but I still pay all the bills because I'm used to it.
I agree with Camrie
I'd worry that his lack of motivation shows that he isn't concerned about debt and doesn't think it's an issue that needs to be dealt with. That shows a lack of maturity. If you were taking over finances because you were just more organized that would be fine but you're needing to do so just to keep him from continuing to go into debt. What's to stop him from over-spending in the future? Is he irresponsible in other areas of his life?
This just sends huge shivers down my spine. And I echo Camrie's opinions. This could be just the tip of the iceberg and while the old me would just say to take over finances and be done with it, I can't help think that he doesn't really want to put the effort into making sure you (as a couple) are financially able to do things in the future such as buy a home or have children. I have no problem with you taking over his finances but he still has to be an active participant in the BUDGET talks. With all those 30 and 60 day lates, I wouldn't be surprised if his credit score is in the 500's.
One website I really like is - myfico.com (check out the community boards/forum), I learned so much about credit and paying bills and how many horror stories resulted from partners not being on the same page when it came to finances. I'm a big Dave Ramsey follower so I'm not really into that whole "debt' thing, but you're fiance has to realize that he has a moral and ethical obligation to paying his bills on time as the creditors have loaned him that money in good faith.
Good luck!
@almostmrsbearcub: I swear I could have written this exact post (I'm even 26! But not yet engaged.). My bf is pretty bad with money, although he has been making huge efforts in the past year or so. One of which is that he gives any extra money he has to me, and I save it for him. Otherwise, it would never get saved. I'm really interested to hear the other responses you get!
Have you ever seen "Till Debt Do Us Part"???
http://www.slice.ca/shows/showspage.aspx?title_id=93097
I don't think that just taking over the bills/money management is the answer. A total attitude change about money would make you two more financial compatible.
DH is really bad. No credit card debt, but... late payments/ nonpayments/ out of control. He was worse when we met. He happily had me take over and now I am in charge of payments and managing things and setting our budget. When he was single he... didn't care. I think sometimes they just need a reason/ motivation. I was pretty bad myself, especially in my early 20s (!) Now I am much better, and I plan it all out for him. I have all of 2011 planned. He just writes a check when I say. Occasionally he has to make a call if something is in his name or something- but even those calls I usually handle. It is a learning process and you can help him.
We spend a set amount each week and all the rest goes to bills. That was the easiest way I could break it down for him. We actually keep that cash each week on the fridge (hey, it works for us!) It helps him to be able to "see it." All the rest goes to bills and payments and rent (we write checks from our account.)
Sometimes I feel like a mother, but I don't mind. His mother was MIA, so he never had any guidance or support. I think sometimes we are in a relationship to help one another by picking up where each other's parents left off. He helps me in different ways.
I really agree with what several other comments, so I'll just add this. Perhaps having his write a list a 5 things he wants to accomplish int eh next 5-10 years - and how he plans to pay for those things. Will help him wise up, being in debt like that can potentially restrict him from capitalizing on other opportunities. If you were offered a great job in another city, would you guys be able to take it? Or would you have to pass because of the debt? Is having a child, buying a house, etc on that list... how will that be paid for. It could be a helpful exercise to have him begin to plan ahead since he hasn't started to think like that yet...
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So here goes. I am an accountant. I save. I budget. I pay my bills. I buy myself treats. It's easy and it works for me. I dont have any major debt. Financially speaking, for a 26 year old I am super responsible maybe even overly responsible.
The FI is another situation, he just cannot pull it together. He has a decent amount of credit card debt. Makes minimun payments. Does not pay his bills on time. Gets late fees. Has no savings.
He is the love of my life but when I see him throw away unopened letters from his credit card company, I become enraged. I take them out of the trash and read them and they are full of late fees, late payments, etc. We had both agreed our mutual goal is to get out of debt before the wedding. I have to consistentley remind him to pay the cable bill or put 50 bucks towards such and such.
I have tried everything but I do not know how to get through to him. I threaten to take over his finances and he seems ok with it. I feel like I have a son and not a FI. Am I doomed for life or will he start taking this seriously eventually??
Thoughts???