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For me, I personally would not buy a house unless we were engaged. I just don't want to start combining everything until then. It's a personal comfort level thing, I think. I think you should do what's right for you, do you feel comfortable making that purchase? Do you trust that he will eventually propose? What if he doesn't propose, or what if he breaks up with you, what happens to the house then?
I might even discuss with him that the proposal doesn't have to be when you are away somewhere. I really don't care about the specifics of the proposal. I mean yea it makes for a nice story, but all that matters is that he proposes right? It could be at home or just a local restaurant and you are just as engaged as you would be if he proposed in Europe. Maybe that discussion would speed things along.
I am sort of in the same position - we are living together, but I will not share a down payment until we are engaged. I think the bottom line is it IS okay for you to put your foot down about that (it's not an ultimatum, it's a financially-responsible place to draw the line). An ultimatum is "propose by the end of the month or we're breaking up". You're saying "let's not combine finances until we're committed" - totally different and 100% okay. The only thing that I can suggest is if one of you can afford a down payment themselves, they can still buy it and have sole ownership over the title; that doesn't add any risk to your partnership. If you're both committed to sharing the cost of the down payment, it's okay to wait. Yes maybe the perfect house will come along, but so will another one after that. I wouldn't even look yet because there's no point torturing yourselves. Good luck!
I did try to buy a house alone in April, but another bidder beat me out. His rationale for getting the house together is that we can get a bigger house that we will have more equity in if we get one together. That way will be in a house big enough to grow into when we start having a family, which wouldn't be the case if I purchased alone. We'd most likely only be able to be there for 1 kid and then we'd have to upsize.
Oh no trust me I understand that more money = better (bigger house, more equity, etc.). I just mean that for the sake of having options - in the hopes that he feels less like it's an ultimatum - you can always offer that as an alternative.. ie. you're happy if one of you purchases a house before you're engaged, but combining finances will have to wait.
It sounds like he's waiting for a more romantic and special moment to propose. I would've assumed the second a Europe trip was planned that it would happen there, but of course assuming things in these waiting situations can lead to false hope.
Has he told you his timeline at all? If you think it will be in the next few months I wouldn't hesitate to look at a couple places maybe go to some open houses but tell him you won't sign a mortgage unless you're engaged. If you're getting engaged soon that won't matter because by the time you find the right house you might be engaged anyways and if your not maybe that will give him an incentive to pop the question!
Hope you get your ring in Europe!
I bought a house by myself while I was single, but dating my current boyfriend. It was somewhat bittersweet that I did it by myself and that we didn't get to be a married couple buying our first home together. I also had to go to the closing and paperwork by myself. (bf was in a different city at the time).
Not that I'm saying you shouldn't do it. It was the best choice for me, as homes were cheaper two years ago (foreclosed). But if you're buying the home together and both putting down a downpayment, I'd be hesitant if I wasn't married/engaged.
I'm usually super anti-ultimatum and pro-living together before engagement.
BUT I think that buying a house together is different. It is TOTALLY acceptable to be wary of making that sort of financial commitment with someone when legally either of you can just walk away from the partnership. I think you need to tell him that - it's not an emotional issue, it's a financial one and that you don't feel comfortable combining your finances until you're married (or almost married).
Do you want a fancy proposal? Or any proposal at all? Maybe the next time it comes up, make it clear what your expectations are. But as far as timing/house/finances/etc keep it to a practical discussion about risk and finance rather than an emotional one. I know he might feel like he's being held hostage and made to rush, but that's not what you're doing - you're making a responsible financial choice to be more patient.
Thanks girls
He feels like the fact that I'm not willing to get a house together with him shows a lack of faith in him. He said that.
We haven't discussed timelines because in the past when I've brought it up, he gets defensive about not wanting to feel pressured. So, I haven't been bringing it up because the last thing I want is someone to propose who feels pressured to.
His grandfather proposed to his grandmother in Interlaken, Switzerland and that's the first stop on our European trip.. I should also add, that he gave me the money to plan the trip as my Christmas gift this year because he knew I wanted to go go Europe with him before he goes with his younger brother post graduation (his younger brother's graduation). The more I think about it the more I feel like I'm getting my hope up that it will happen there... I had given up all hope of it happening, telling my friends and family to lay off me about it, until last night when he said all those things about the proposal needing to be somwhere special. Now, I'm gonna go crazy again and set myself up for disappointment. I feel like a crazy person.
If it were me I wouldn't buy a house with him. But it might just be my nature, because I am also more open with my boyfriend about the proposal (I'm just very nosy/curious). I would let him know that you do trust him and you're excited to spend your lives together, but you've already compromised on living together, and this is something you believe in (if you do).
Don't get your hopes up too much for the trip, or else you won't enjoy it. And if he is planning on proposing, September isn't that far away. Just don't look at the housing market, and you won't even know what you could be missing.
Obviously, you need to make the decision that is best for you. But I just wanted to put in my two cents: my FI and I bought a house together before we were engaged. It was with the strict understanding that a ring was to follow. We got engaged about nine months after buying the house.
So I wouldn't rule it out completely! It sounds to me like your SO is being very practical, I don't think he is stringing you along.
A few things:
It definitely doesn't sound like he is stringing you along at all. I think a lot of men are quite practical about these things.
Strictly speaking, signing a mortgage together IS a bigger commitment than buying a ring and being engaged. In one case, you can just walk away. In the other, you can't. Just saying.
I totally identify with feeling like a crazy person. My FI and I were together 8 years when he proposed. It can be hard not to let other people's questions about your relationship seep into your own brain.
Have a great time in Europe and try to enjoy every single minute! Good luck!
That is tough because he doesn't seem to really be listening to you or trying to understand where you are coming from. It isn't a lack of faith in him, you are being quite level headed and reasonable about this. The dream house won't disapear in a few months - and well, if it is going to take him a lot longer to propose than that, that is really his decision.
I would stand firm if that is how you feel and tell him that you want the two of you to make a commitment to each other that is more concrete before you make a house purchase. You don't have to say "I want you to propose first" which might make him defensive. But you can say that you want the two of you to be officially engaged and planning to marry.....if you guys are going to be partners in life one day, then he needs to understand and compromise his position with yours (you already agreed ot move in together before you were engaged based on his wishes, now it is his turn to respect your wishes).
OR you could say that just like he doesn't want to be pressured into proposing before HE is ready, you don't want to be pressured into jointly purchasing a house before YOU are ready.
Why does everything have to happen on his terms? You didn't feel comfortable moving in together prior to engagement, but you did because he wanted to. You don't feel comfortable (justifiably so) buying a house together before engagement but he's pushing you because he wants to. It doesn't sound like he's taking your feelings into account much here, he seems to want everything on his terms and his terms only. He's anxious to get a house so the "perfect one" doesn't pass you by? Better get your ass to the jewelry store then, sweetheart!
Honestly, if you don't feel comfortable buying a house prior to engagement, then don't. That is a very fiscally responsible decision. I told my BF point blank that I would not purchase real property with him without being married. Not simply engaged, but actually married. Fortunately, he agreed wholeheartedly. Don't let your BF push you into doing something you don't feel comfortable doing. He doesn't want to be "pushed" into proposing, right? It's really the same thing.
Stand by your guns, you are completely 100% justified.
I agree with lezlers. How is not buying a house with him show a lack of faith?! And more money to buy a bigger house is not a good enough excuse. What is it with men nowadays?! You have already done enough by living with him. Tell him that is sweet you want to buy a house with me but marriage is important and I need to do that before I sign any contracts with you.
Thanks everybody. It makes me feel better to hear some additional opinions. My sister is always getting mad when I talk to her about things like this and she makes me feel bad like I shouldn't be with him because he hasn't proposed yet (which I obviously don't think is fair).
I'm going to enjoy our trip the best I can and try to get back to the place I was where I was sure he wouldn't propose and I could just relax and be happy instead of thinking about it constantly. As for the house, the one he really wanted to look at was just taken off the market (literally my realtor called to see about it and it had just been pulled from the market this morning), so that takes the pressure off us possibly missing out on our 'dream house' for the time being. Maybe that house being pulled off the market is a sign.
Wow....looks like you have a predicament. Perhaps you can entertain his idea by starting to look around at houses. The only bad thing about this is that you guys may actually find something you adore, in which case he may want to sign on the dotted line ASAP. You can start looking at just stretch it out as long as possible till you guys make your Europe trip and see if it leads to a proposal.
Utlimately, I think buying a home together is a ginormous step that traditionally was never really an option unless a couple was hitched. It almost feels like he wants the perks of being married without doing the deed.
You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. You cant force him to propose and same for you.....he cant force you to sign on the dotted line.
My only advice if you do buy a home, find something you can manage on your own (just in case). Dont buy something you would not be able to afford on one salary.....just in case he never asks you and bails on you.
If he doesnt propose on your trip though, I wouldn't be on it happening.....
Good luck.
I just want to say I agree with everyone that you shouldn't move forward with buying a house if you feel at all ill at ease about it. His idea that you're showing a lack of faith - and in the wrong - is pretty ridiculous. How much faith should you have in someone who hasn't proposed yet after seven years (and doesn't even like to talk about it because it makes him feel "pressured")?? He needs to "pay the piper" so to speak - don't let him off the hook and have his way again. He needs to work with you a little.
I hope he proposes on the Europe trip. But if not, his argument about wanting to wait until it can be "special" will kind of ring hollow. If you're still waiting at that point, maybe it's something else going on.
I was writing my post when you wrote the "doesn't have faith in him" comment. Takes some nerve to actually make that argument, if you ask me. Why SHOULD you have faith in him? It's been 7 frickin' YEARS! Comon', dude! He has no reason whatsoever not to propose to you. So what's holding him up? Seriously? That's what I don't get. Why is he ready to buy a house with you but not propose to you? I agree with one of the posters who said it looks like he's trying to get all of the perks of being married without any of the responsibilities. And he's getting pissy with you (not to mention a little desperate with the "faith" comment) when you're not letting him.
Man, I'm getting steamed FOR you! You have more patience than I, my dear. Prolly a good thing. ;)
I think I am on a different side to everyone here! I bought a house with my partner nearly a year ago now and we arent engaged. We discussed it and decided that it made a lot of financial sense to set ourselves up for our future together first. House prices where we live are going crazy but when we bought there was a bit of a lull, so we got a great bargain.
For my boyfriend setting our lives up together first is extremely important... he wants us to be financially stable and he wants to feel that he can provide for us as a family unit before he proposes.
I feel like buying our first home together was also a huge commitment. In the eyes of the law we are now a domestic partnership and for all intents and purposes, are married. That doesn't mean that we arent getting married - but it does mean that legally, we are both protected in the same way married people are.
for you though, it sounds as if you are really uncomfortable with the idea of buying a home together before you are engaged and you really cant ignore those feelings.
The fact that your partner has said that "you havent done anything special lately" and hinted at Europe being special really does indicate that he is thinking about it though. I would just be honest, and say I would love nothing more than to buy our first home together but you have to understand that I am uncomfortable without knowing for certain that marriage is on the cards. I dont want to pressure you, but I need to know that it is in the next 6 months or so or else I just cant proceed with buying a house right now.
Good luck!
ack this is a tough one! I can see both of your sides
His: looking at bigger houses bc he is serious about making a family with you
Yours: not comfy with a house purchase before engaged
Personally I would also be very uncomfortable with it as well, but it does not seem as though he is stringing you along.
I wanted to add - I agree w/ others that it doesn't sound to me like he's stringing you along... he honestly intends to marry you at some point most likely. It's just that it's not nearly the priority to him as it is to you. I'm worried if you buy the big house, it will delay engagement even further as it will be a big expense and it will take a while just to get used to carrying the house, financially. It will probably be a while before he's feeling like he has the cash to spare on a ring. Marriage is very important to you - so "get it done" before his bank account is cleaned out by the house.
Please don't accept a promise of "we'll be engaged within X period of time" before entering into a contract as serious as purchasing a house together. Cruising through these boards a couple times should be enough to convince you that those promises tend not to be worth the paper they're figuratively written on. If you want to buy a house prior to marriage, fine. But if you're uncomfortable doing it sans some sort of commitment, a mere "we'll be engaged next month babe, promise!!" is not even close to being enough.
Hell, I don't think an engagement is enough, since it's just as easy to pick up and leave someone wearing a ring as it is someone not, but I can see how that could make you a little more comfortable with it.
At the end of the day, it depends on your own comfort level.
You sound like you're already in a stressful position re: the trip, possibly getting engaged, etc. Adding a new home seems like extra stress you don't need to deal with at this moment. Especially since you aren't 100% comfortable with it.
i wouldnt buy a house together unless engaged... and honestly i dont always understand when guys insist on waiting for the perfect moment n more romantice moment.. perfect moments can be created at any time he chooses.. a proposal doesnt have to be dramatic to be romantic
I was in a similar situation. We were together for five years when we moved in together. While waiting for the ring,I got frustrated and even irritated at times (waiting is so hard!). We would discuss engagement, and he would assure me that he was only planning to propose once in his life and he was going to make sure it was done the right way; he wanted it to be perfect for us. After seven years (when we were financially and emotionally ready), we decided to buy a house together. This was the best move we could have made. All the pieces fell into place - we are established in our careers, we have our dogs, we have our home, and we are financially prepared to pay for a wedding. Last Christmas (after nearly nine years together) I received the most thoughtful, meaningful, loving surprise proposal I could have ever imagined. In some opinions we may have approached things backwards, but I wouldn't change a thing (even the waiting). It was SO worth the wait! My advice?? Have a little faith in him, and keep an open mind about the house. It will happen for you too - and it will all be worth it! Good luck!
I would feel very uncomfortable buying a house without a formal commitment already in place. It sounds like he does intend to marry you, given all the things he said about the big house, etc, but buying house is just a big step as getting engaged and if he can do that than he should be able to propose to you. I would stay firm about it and don't give in to buying a house if you don't feel quite right about it.
@mcnetn3: He feels like the fact that I'm not willing to get a house together with him shows a lack of faith in him.
One could also argue that his not being willing to propose to you shows a lack of faith in you. I, personally, would have a hard time entering into a financial arrangement that would be disastrous without a marriage, at a point when he is still not willing to commit publicly to marriage. Yes, he has told you he plans to marry you, but he hasn't done anything based on that, while he is asking you to risk your financial health on his being serious about being married.
This does seem very unfair on his part, on one hand to say that you're pressuring him by bringing up any talk of engagement or marriage and on the other to be pressuring YOU into buying a house by saying that if you don't it means you don't have faith in him or that you might miss out on a "dream house". Talk about emotional blackmail!
I am in a similar boat. I could buy a place on my own, and have done some research in that direction, but frankly as long as I'm with my current BF (together 6 years so believe me I feel you) I probably won't. It would make more financial sense to buy it together, but I don't want to do that unless we are at least engaged. If we're going to make a huge 30 year financial commitment together than I want to know that we've made a commitment to be a family first, and then made our financial decisions as a team after.
Obviously your mileage may vary--not everyone is going to feel this way. But if it's the way you feel and it's important to you don't let him try to talk you out of it. As you've been respectful of his feelings on being pressured to propose he needs to respect your feelings on being pressured to buy a house.
I agree with 2dbride and Janna19.
He's not being fair and has asked for a tremendous amount of faith on your part.
Wait until the trip if you're comfy but I'd stick to your guns on no house buying.
I wholeheartedly agree with a statement a PP said above about you not being pressured into buying a house before YOU are ready. Buying a house together is just as big a commitment and I wouldn't have done it whilst DH and I were dating - not for lack of faith in him or our relationship, but just for my own peace of mine. We only spoke about buying a house right before we got engaged and we set our own couple's timeline - buy a house in Year 1, get married in Year 2. That ended up changing for other reasons but it was good to know that we were on the same page about it.
Stick to your guns on this one.
Even if you're engaged and not married, things could get complicated legally. I am not clear on your state law but you should check. If two people who are not married bought a house and something happens to one of them, what happens to the other person? What if one of you wants to walk away from the engagement or the house? Who has the power of attorney? Do you guys have a will? Does one have to wrestle with the bank or relatives for ownership? I'm not saying that bad things will happen but it's not a question of who has faith but life is unpredictable & buying a house and borrowing $ from bank is an issue that requires practicality and not love.
EXACTLY. I've noticed that a lot of posters here tend to equate engagement with marriage with respect to legal obligations in the context of buying a house and other very important financial decisions. It's important to remember engagement means NOTHING in the eyes of the law. You are dating and wearing a fancy ring. That is all. Engagement will not save you any sort of legal hassle if the relationship doesn't work out and you own a home together but remain unmarried. I'm not saying you shouldn't buy a house if you're engaged and not married, just that if you're waiting until you're engaged to make the purchase because you're concerned about levels of liability, being engaged vs. not is really a distinction without a difference.
I'm not sure about the other girls, but since I said I would consider purchasing a house while engaged (not married) I thought I would respond.
To me the need to have the engagement come before the house buying is a question of commitment, not done with an aim to legally protect myself. I want to know that we have taken that step to agree to be a family before we make this huge financial commitment.
To protect myself legally though if we purchased the house before the actual marriage occurred I would just set up a trust and purchase the house in the name of the trust with all the legal stipulations outlined when the trust is set up.
THIS SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE ME. And trust me, now I regret fussing over a proposal - a lot.
We lived together in my apt. for about a year and a half (we'd already been dating a year and half before he moved in). When the 8k tax credit for new homeowners came about, and lots of our friends (both married and unmarried) bought houses, we started asking ourselves if this was something we could afford to do. Given the opportunity, and the way the market is now, it really is the best time to buy. Of course I was excited, but I kep thinking, "Couldn't part of the downpayment go toward a ring? I mean, if we're guying a house, let's get engaged". I had ring fever like crazy - I was pissed! Ok, so you'll own a home with me but you don't want to marry me? He said he did want to marry me, but everything will come in the right now. The only way I could placate myself was to tell myself that if he's agreeing to a 30 year mortgage, that's a serious committment, and I should be satisfied with that - it means he's at least thinking long term. Right then was a perfect time to buy a house, which is prob. why your SO wants to get a house now - seriously, our parents generation had to save almost TWICE the required downpayment. If you can afford a house right now, do it! Besides, decorating and dealing with house traumas will bring you together (any new experience will).
Once we had the house, I put the pressure on for a ring. LOTS OF PRESSURE. I made him promise he'd propose within in a year. Then I realized that every single moment for the next year, I'd be expecting it. If we went to visit family, if we took a trip to see some friends, if we had a date night... ANYTHING. I basically ruined the surprised because I was always expecting it. When he was so adamant about getting out of work one night, I pretty much knew. I blew the surprise, and that's the best part. So PLEASE believe me when I tell you he's probably considered it quite a bit, and is just working out the details and timing while trying to balance purchasing a home. Don't rush it and ruin it like I did!
Pren79, lezlers, Taylor4 you are SPOT ON! You DO need to protect yourself legally if you're going to enter into a contract to buy a house. Engagement is not going to do it.
Heck, I'm hesitant to move in with a guy before engagement becuase it could put me in a worse position financially (I have great rent control right now), should we break up. I've settle that engaged is OK, I don't have to be married to move in. But my god it would blow my mind to think of owning a house with someone I'm only engaged to.
You're totally within your rights to not move forward with purchasing a house if you don't feel comfortable.
This sounds a lot like my best friend from college....She had been with her SO for 8 years, living together for 4 years and then they decided to not only buy- but BUILD their dream house. Now for an important sidenote: He had had the engagement ring for 3 YEARS and she knew it (well everyone knew it!!).
Needless to say, they lived in their beautiful new home for a year while she put the pressure on for him to propose- And ended up breaking up. It all worked out for the best, though. She's in a GREAT new relationship and this guy def won't dangle a ring in front of her for 3 ridiculous years, ughhhh.
I agree with the other bees. I don't think your boyfriend is being insincere, but he sure is asking a lot of you! You weren't sure about moving in together before getting engaged, he pushed for it, and you agreed. I think you should really toe the line now. You guys live together, have a dog, and have been together for the better part of a decade. I think that is enough "commitment" from you to assure him you are in it for the long haul. There comes a point where if getting married is important to you, it's in your best interest to make that clear. I ended a 6-year relationship in 2006 because although we loved each other, he wasn't going to marry me anytime soon, and I had waited long enough to figure out that being married was important to me.
This isn't an ultimatum if you decline to participate in the house hunt right now--this is a statement that you would like to slow down and talk in realistic terms about your future. He's willing to drop hundreds of thousands of dollars on a house, but not a tenth of that (or less) on a ring? He's comfortable talking about the kids you will have someday to fill this theoretical house, but not comfortable proposing? Are there bad/broken marriages in his family? Because all I can think of is that he sees marriage as fragile, and mutual real estate investment as a solid bet. :)
i was in a similar situation as far as the "house-hunt" pre-engagement.
i, just like you, was hesitant at the thought of purchasing a home together before being engaged.
i went through my moments of dealing with it, and in the end, opened myself up to browsing at houses... the market was just too good to pass up esp with that tax credit... and i knew he was ring-shopping/planning... so i put all my faith into him and we began a 3 month house-hunt!...
there was a "supposed to happen" proposal that never happened about a month before we closed, but he ended proposing on the night of our final walk-through... a week before we moved into our home! :)
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A little backstory. My SO and I have been together for 7 years, we've lived together for a little over a year, got a dog, everything is great. Our relationship is awesome.
I expressed concern about living together before engagement, but financially and for him (he really didn't feel comfortable proposing without living together first), it made sense to take that step before engagement. Well, we still aren't engaged, but our relationship, personal, and professional lives are at a point where the logical next step is to purchase a home. I told him I wanted to wait until we were engaged to buy a home together, but he insists that we keep progressing our relationship/life even if he hasn't proposed yet, meaning buying a home together. That he doesn't want to miss out on the perfect house because we aren't engaged.
We got into a discussion about it last night and he said that he wants to marry me, he will propose, and me saying we should wait to get the house is like an ultimatum or a punishment for him not proposing yet. He added in "do you really want to get off work, go by the grocery store, and then get down on a knee and pop the question? we haven't gone anywhere special or done anything recently- Of course I want to marry you, I want to spend the rest of my life with you, I'm looking at houses big enough to have a family in". I felt guilty, but don't think I really should about how I feel about legally becomming a family before we keep progressing as a family unit (I'm in his family portraits for peets sake, just propose).
We are going to Europe in September, should I just try to stay calm until then and see if he proposes and keep an open mind about getting a house? Should I stick to my guns about not getting the house until he proposes? Am I totally crazy for feeling that things are all jumbled up and wanting to get married is me just being crazy? Do I have faith in him after all this time, that he will actually propose, or am I just being strung along?
Help!