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I know we aren't technically newlyweds anymore, but I don't know where to put this. And sorry in advance that this is going to be long, but try to hear me out
I should start by saying that I love DH beyond words. Truly. He's my first everything and I'm really happy with him. What I'm not happy with is his family. I don't dislike them, but, I have a hard time putting up with them all the time. He has a very small family that is pretty much just his sister, his mom, and him. His dad is in China and everyone hates him and tries to avoid him. He has some extended family, but I've never met most of them and they don't really talk to DH. DH is also Chinese. He moved from Hong Kong to NYC when he was about 6. His parents don't speak much English. I can say little things to his mom, but we can never have a full conversation. Sometimes, when we have dinner together, DH is good about translating (though he doesn't consider himself fluent in Chinese anymore either), other times he just kind of brushes it off and I have no idea what's really going on. This wouldn't be a problem if it was only occasionally, but it's not. My mother in law lives with us.
The backstory is that DH, his sister, and his mom have lived in this apartment unit for awhile. Once DH graduated, he and his sister (who graduated before him) took over paying the bills. Everything is in her name, but she doesn't contribute financially at all. In fact, a few months ago, she legally declared herself DH's dependant. She's 55. Now, in retrospect, I should have told DH that I won't move in until he gets his own place. But I was coming from a very unstable home life plus the strain of a LDR, so I moved in 2 1/2 years ago and we got married a year after that. It's a 2 bedroom apartment. DH and his sister used to share, but at this point she was only coming home 2 nights a week. The rest of the week she stays with her boyfriend. She still does help pay some of the bills on behalf of my mother in law, but DH pays most of it. She was paying about half, but she cut it down and said she was going to move her things out since she's not home much. Well, she cut it down, but a lot of her things are still in mine and DH's bedroom since it used to be her room.
Anyway, to make an already long story short, we pretty much have to consult his family about every decision we make. I don't feel like it is our home. It's still their home. DH won't stand up to his mom or sister. A big part of it is culture. The whole respect your elders thing is big for them (and elders doesn't mean old people, it means anyone older than you like DH's sister) and it's also tradition that the children take care of their parents. We're technically supposed to give them an allowance, but we can't afford that. I used to tell myself that I would be ok with it, and that DH is worth it, and these are just petty materialistic things that aren't important. But I'm begining to think I was just fooling myself. This is a problem. His mom doesn't work so we can't just move out and leave her, but we can't afford to pay two rents. Technically I'm the intruder since they were here first, so we can't just tell them to get their stuff out of here (we asked his sister to move her desk out of the bedroom once and she BLEW UP), and I just don't know what to do. DH never wants to have a real conversation about it. But i can't live like this forever. Is it really so wrong to want to be able to run a household, just DH and I, without having to consult with someone else? We're adults. Shouldn't we be able to buy a new couch or microwave or set of cookware just because we feel like it? But then i feel like I'm being petty and this stuff shouldn't matter since I love DH and these are just material things. But it's really, really hard, and I just don't see an end in sight. :'(
Has anyone had issues like this, with the different cultural expectations? Did I make a mistake marrying DH if I can't accept his family for the way it is? I don't want to be the bad guy in his family. I really don't. They're nice people and I don't want to "steal" DH away or break them apart or hurt anyone in any way, but I want to be able to live my life like I'm an adult, and I'm starting to worry that the life I want is not compatible with the life that I think DH is stuck with. and this makes me really sad :(
How did she support your husband and his sister before he graduated? Did she have a job and then quit it? That is so stressful, I couldn't live with my MIL in a small 2 bedroom apartment for the rest of my life. I don't really have much advice for you though.
Yeah, she used to work, but eventually she just kind of tapered off. His dad was also working and sending money home (though his parents ended up divorcing), but he had a fall that left him unable to work and after that is when he eventually moved back to China. DH thinks his mom's old boss is her boyfriend, but she's very private about that. She manages to get some money from somewhere or someone, but she doesn't work now and we're not really sure from where.
Hmm that's sort of strange. Did the two of you ever talk about these sorts of things before you got married?
Wow, the only thing I can think to say is I would hate to be in that situation. I know they say when you marry the man you marry the family, but this just takes it to another stage. Honestly I don't know how I personally would deal with it. I think the most important thing before you think about ending your marriage, is to talk to you husband. You need to let him know how serious it is. You keep saying its about material things but its not. Its about your life and how you're being forced to live it.
Can you all move to a different apartment or something? Maybe a new place would help alleviate the stress? Since your hubs is the only one paying th bills can he just tell a white lie and say he can't afford that place anymore and found something cheaper? Just an idea.
Good luck hun!
He doesn't want to have a real conversation about it, but he has to if he doesn't want to lose you. I think you need to show him that this is really serious and that he has no choice but to listen. My mother always told me never to live with family. And I think it's true. Almost every marriage that I know of that has issues had to deal either with living in the same house as the parents or having the family basically control one of the partners. I am sorry you're going through this, but I think you should bring this up to your DH no matter what. Either way this isn't moving in a good direction so you have nothing to lose. I understand that culture is a big deal, but you shouldn't feel like "this stuff doesn't matter." It does matter and I am sure that if he had a Chinese wife things wouldn't be much different. Don't feel bad. He also knew he was marrying outside of his culture and he can't expect that you'll be making all the sacrifices. He needs to stand up for you too and you need to stand up for your marriage together.
@june42011: I've thought about moving before. It would be a great excuse to clear out a lot of junk and start fresh and maybe it would make for a transition that would allow DH and I to be the "heads of the household" but in all honesty, we live in a pretty good area and we just won't be able to find anything this size for cheaper since we're rent stabilized. Nothing that's in a safe neighborhood anyway, but it could be part of a "plan" own the road if we're ever better off financially.
I really don't want to end the marriage. I don't. It would be an absolute last resort. And I know whatever we decide isn't going won't be an immediate fix and I'm ok with that, but I'm a planner and I need to be able to see the goal, or the end of it and a plan to get there. I tried telling DH that we need to talk about it because I can't do this forever, and he just snapped and said "I know, you told me that before." Yes, I said that, but he never let us talk about it. But then when I told him that I don't think our marriage will last if we don't talk about it he seems to have bucked up a bit and realized it's serious and said we can talk about it.
This is just so hard. I keep thinking to myself "are we going to have to ask them permission to have kids too??" We aren't there yet in our life, but when we do, I'm afraid that if DH tells him before I'm actually pregnant they'll say we shouldn't, or if I already am, that his mom will get mad that he didn't discuss it with them first (like she got mad when he didn't discuss him marrying me before we got engaged).
Wow, that's rough! As someone who is vietnamese, I do understand the whole respect your elders thing. I know my mom says that she wants to move in with one of us later and we've all brushed it off hoping things will work out. I know it sounds horrible. I'm tried to convince my mom to move in with her sister (my aunt) but I think my mom thinks her children should support her not her sister. Yeah, it's hard. Luckily, I live across the country right now but I know how much of a burden my parents can get.
And some of the stuff you said about his parents, I can see my DH saying those things about my family. He makes it work. (Also, DH's family has their own issues, too) Oh, and the whole language thing, don't let it bother you. My mom rambles off and I can only translate so much and some of it is crazy talk and not usual anything about my DH. I have 2 sisters and 1 brother and we are all with or married americans, so my mom has gotten used to the idea that we are not with vietnamese men.
Maybe if you want to be more understanding of his culture, maybe you should learn chinese. It might show them that you respect their culture. Even little things, like learning how to say please and thank you in chinese. I know my parents loved that the DH learned thank you.
Maybe you can talk to other chinese members here to see how you can deal with them. I think they will be more understanding of your feelings if they see you trying to respect their cultures. Yeah, our tradtions and cultures can be a real process.
Sorry, you're going through this.
ETA: Oh, I just thought of something. What about finding a place where everyone can be somewhat happy. If I was in your situation, I would find a place where you can rent out two houses that are next door. You and your DH can live in one and mom and sister can live in the one next door. He will still be taking care of them and still be able to see them and it's shouldn't be too far. I don't know if you can afford something like that but maybe look into it.
Also, I don't know if it's the fact that you don't have any kids yet. That might have something to do with it. Maybe? Since you don't have kids of your own, they don't feel they are a burden on you guys just yet. Just an idea.
If the sister won't move her stuff, jsut move it for her.If she isn;'t living there anymore, it shouldn't be there and she is takinga dvantage.
You have to do something. His mother is still young so you are looking at spending the next 20+ years this way. Definitely you need to talk,b ut don't be surprised if he won't do anything about it. Esp, if it is a cultural thing.
How is it that the sister can have her own place but you 2 can't??
I also think you should take a less dramatic approach, and not say things like "I can't take this anymore". If yoau re calm, it will go smoother.
Oh man, i feel for you girl. My grandma is korean and i remember my mom and dad going through a lot of these issues when she got elderly. In the end, it was a "we're in america and this is how we're doing it" and grandma went to an assisted care home and mom visits her frequently. my grandma has come to realize she isn't in korea and that's not how things are going to go. it was a tough love thing.
If your Dh won't talk to you, though, that's the thing i can't get my head around. He needs to be a damn adult and have a conversation with you. He's going to be forced to choose between his wife and his mom if he can't have a conversation about how to fix this and make it work. I can completely understand every reason why you are frustrated with the culture of how it's done...but unless your husband has lived in China his whole life, he is fully aware of how things are done around here and the fact that there ARE other ways to deal with parents. The fact that they are okay being a financial burden on you just boggles my mind, though. I'm so sorry about that. She may call it 'culture' but i call it selfish =(. You have a 'culture', too and it doesn't involve living with mom! there will have to be a compromise somewhere. You cannot be the only ones--maybe there is a counselor nearby who can give you some advice on how some interracial couples made it work. I know how it worked for my grandma (the whole 'you're in america now, this is how we do things') but i know it doesn't work for everyone. Nobody hated her for it by the way :p. She still gets letters from family and such.
I think at some point, when you have the place to yourself, you guys need to sit down and actually try to come up with a SOLUTION. I can completely get why he's snappy--he's sort of stuck in between. If you can brainstorm some ideas, it may help ease the discussion. Also--find out what HE wants. Surely this isn't it....if you can appeal to his side of what he wants, he may feel stronger about approaching the situation, instead of it coming out like "oh my wife wants X" you know? Make a list of the exact things you want and what's REALLY bugging you...when you're overwhelmed (like you are now), it's hard to articulate to your spouse exactly what's up and lay it all out on the table. Some notes would probably help you clear your mind in a way that is really cathartic. Good luck =\
This is a really tough situation. Like others, I think it's really important that you and DH talk about this thoroughly so that you both are clear about what you want and what your future looks like. I do think that the timing is not ideal. Since you asked, I do think it would have been more ideal to have discussed these matters before you got married. Intercultural marriages are difficult. You really need to communicate so that you can come to an understanding about the cultural aspects of your relationship and life. If it means ruffling some feathers, then you'll need to ruffle some feathers to be heard. DH needs to know that you're so unhappy. If he won't listen to you and do something about it, then THAT is the problem and not necessarily the mother ya know? So sorry. good luck.
I'm sorry this is a really tough situation. You should definitely have a talk with your husband. It's unfair for you to have to live like this indefinitely. What might help is making a plan to move in say 1-2 years (assuming you can get everyone on board with that decision). The situation probably seems more bleak because there's no end in sight. I find I can deal with a situation better if I know it's temporary and have a goal set to get out of it. You could use saving up to move as a bit of a distraction.
I agree with EJS about brainstorming some ideas. Maybe it's as simple as starting out with a night to yourselves at home once weekly. Does his mom have friends that she can make a weekly date with?
I also think a negotiation with sister about making the room more yours is a reasonable step.
I remember way back when when you were new to the home and it felt more like their place. I feel like it is time for you to have some of your own space. You've been really patient and it's time for DH to help you find some peace. There are always ways to work things.
Ideally you'd just all move to a place with a MIL apartment but I know it doesn't work that way where you are :)
Wow...Ok I can't really tell you what would be best for you but I know that I would definitely be setting some boundaries. Don't let DH put you off indefinitely. If he says we'll talk about it later ask for a date. And I would make a list of things you are uncomfortable with at the moment. Then brake it down between those you can live with, and those that definitely need to change right away, and take it to your "talk".
Thanks for the advice everyone. I tried to put it past me yesterday so that we can enjoy our New Years, but I was clear with him that we really need to talk about it. We talked a little before bed, but he ate too much and was really uncomfortable. I don't want to make him feel like he has to choose between me and his family, but I do feel like I need to be put first. The brief conversation we had about it he just kept saying that his sister will be mad. But she gets mad about everything. Like the whole desk thing. It's in our room (so we have two desks in here) and it wasn't being used. We wanted to move it to the living room, where we had more space and she'd be able to actually use it if she wanted. Made sense to us. But when DH asked her, she got so mad and said that it's like we're kicking her out. Not even exagerating. They just blow up so easily over the smallest thing. No matter what we decide someone won't be happy. I feel like it's almost a no-win situation. We stay with them forever, and I'm unhappy. We move out, then they get mad and blame me and hate me.
The best idea i can come up with for now is to hopefully get better jobs so we can just afford to pay two rents. Then we can give her the choice of having her own studio apartment that we pay for, or she can live with us with the understanding that WE are the heads of the household and that we make the decisions. I would really, really prefer her completely having her own place though. We shall see. As Mrs. DG said, ideally we could buy a place that has a separate MIL apartment, and those type of buildings are super common here, but in NYC, I just don't see affording to buy one as a possibility with our line of work. It would probably cost us about 600k.
I wish we could just up and move some place random. That way it would be "fair" because I'd be away from my family, and he'd be away from his. But then that's just kind of running away from the problem.
On a brighter note, MIL finally left the house for a little while today. We spent some fun time together playing Glee Karaoke on the Wii :) I wish we could do that stuff more often, but I'm just not comfortable letting loose with his mom around!
Wow that is such a hard situation!! I'm glad that he was finally willing to talk to you a little bit. I feel like because it is his family the burden really has to be on him to make this work. Not that you shouldn't help... but if its 51/49... he needs to be the 51. In regards to his sister-- in my honest opinion, he just needs to get over it and kick her out. Elder or not, unless there is some reason that she's incapable of working and making her own money there is just no reason to let her walk all over him/you. So she'll get mad? Ok. I guess the thing with his mom makes a little more sense. I mean its really unfortunate because you wish that her values were to want to support herself, but I guess if she sacrificed a lot to move him to America for a better life and probably never had an opportunity to start a retirement fund, it would make some measure of sense that he'd help to support her in her older years. I wonder though why she can't work at all? I mean it doesn't sound like she's elderly and incapable, it sounds as though she's just done, which is not valid.
The bottom line for me would be this: He is in a really bad situation that is not his fault. But his choices now are to risk losing his family by doing right by you, or risk losing you by doing right by his family. He can't have you both forever the way things are now, so he needs to make a decision.
@JoesWifey: I really admire that you're working on the situation as best you can. And to do Wii Kareoke w/ your MIL is so awesome beyond words. Really cute.
@hotwings: oh we didn't do it with her! Just DH and I did the karaoke. She wouldn't be able to play karaoke since she doesn't know English well enough. I've done Just Dance with her though, and Dance Dance Revolution. Like I said, she's not a bad person. I don't dislike her, but I just can't fathom living the rest of my life with her. Just like my own mom lol
I really do want things to work. My DH is so amazing, especially when we get to spend time together that's just him and I. It's just not an easy position to be in for him or for me.
Hopefully you can work it out, but in my midn it comes to this.
Traditions are wonderful, but sometimes they are not practical, or fair. This is the U.S., and here, your husband/wife is supposed to come first. His family needs to find other living arrangements, as this tradition just doesn't work in the present, where you live. Not all ethnic traditions "carry" into the here and now. I mean, in Ireland, the farmers lived in the same home as their farm animals (some still do). I don't think too many Irish folks are doing that in the U.S. (though it was sure interesting to see when I went to visit relatives in Ireland)!
Ideally, you could live in a house with two apartments, or an inlaw, but if that isn't do-able, then you need to come up with another idea.
I also think the Mom needs to find friends/hobbies of her own, so that you two can have privacy. Does she have friends, and if not, can she make some? Are there any places she can go where others speak her language? Coudl she take a class of some sort? Find somethiing for her to do outside of your home and all kiinds of opportunities could open up for her...and for you!
You are clearly in a very tough situation. I definitely agree that you should brainstrom/come up with a plan, but I think you need to make sure that your husband understands there is a sense of urgency and that you just are not comfortable living like this. You talked about possibly moving with your MIL later and making it known that you and DH are the head of households--be careful with even coming to that "compromise" with your husband as it sounds like you will not be happy at all with that situation either.
I think you and DH need to come together and discuss a REAL plan. Then you need to go to your mother in law with what you have decided on. It sounds like your husband really wants to help his mom out and if he could afford to pay rent for her to live in her own place he absolutely would--the reality of the situation though is that he can't afford that. Even if you guys do end up making a bit more money, what about when you decide to have children and need to put money toward them, or for your own savings? I think you guys need to be up front with MIL and tell her that you cannot afford to support her (which is the truth!) and that you love her but you need to live on your own as husband and wife.
I know this is such a hard situation for you, but please don't settle with something you are not comfortable with. You should let her know ASAP so that she can make arrangements to live on her own, with her daughter, or with a room mate.
Best of luck!
MIL usually goes out during the day, but this week she hasn't. Part of that is because we had a big snow storm so trains weren't running for a couple days, but otherwise I don't know why she's been home all week. Plus DH and I are usually at work during the day so then we're all home in the evenings. I don't know if she has friends. We think she has a boyfriend. She's pretty private about what she does in her time and the people she's with. She does have a brother that lives near us. She also goes swimming at the YMCA a couple times a week.
I'm afraid to dismiss their traditions though. I know it's harder for me and I might just have to be "mean" and do it anyway, but being in NYC, there are just so many cultures that different traditions aren't really as impractical as they are other places in the USA. I know they moved to America, but I don't believe that necessarily means they have to conform to our ways. It's a conflicting thought I have. I know DH doesn't like these "traditions" either, but idk. It's hard and gives me conflicting thoughts and emotions.
My husband is Indian and his mother will be coming later this year from India to stay with us for up to six months. (Six months is the max due to tourist visa) My husband's younger brother is leaving for the UK for college so she'll be alone. So, she's coming here to live with us. Now, I found out about this over a year ago (before we were engaged) and we had a LONG chat (about three days long) about expectations, cultural differences and the eastern and western views on nuclear family vs. the "more the merrier" outlooks, etc. Anyway, I told him that ideally I would NOT want to live with family (his or even mine), BUT I was willing to only if certain parameters were set. It was a three-day struggle for me and a lot of tears were shed. I told him that I always dreamed of living in a nuclear-family household. Just me, him and future kids. BUT, I fell in love with an Indian guy with an Indian family and Indian culture and I knew getting married to him would mean a different lifestyle than had I married an American guy.
So, anyway I told him that my main requirement would be to have space. Space for me, space for him and me, time alone, peace and quiet, nights/days alone...he totally 'got that' and understands my American independent nature and requirements. It was decided that we'd have seperate space, alone time, date nights, etc. I don't like the fact that I won't be able to walk around in a t-shirt and underwear or what about intimate time with her close-by?? Yikes! But, I'm confident it will be ok. Plus, I adore my mother-in-law. She's great. (By the way, she can't work due to severe arthritis) Anyway, my story is different than yours in that she won't be able to stay here more than six months at a time (and then six months back in India required) so I know it's a different scenario. And she'll be living in our house with our rules, our furniture, our routine, etc. (When I say rules, it sounds like I'm a tyrant-don't mean it like that! LOL) I just wanted to tell you that I totally get the cultural thing! Chinese and Indians are very similar in these types of things and living situations.
Not sure what advice to give that is different that what previous posters gave, though. I know that if I were you, I'd be blunt and tell my husband, "This ain't working-I'm not happy", but that's just how I am. It's not worth it for you to be miserable. I know you love him and are happy with him when it's just the two of you, but he needs to understand that you cannot live like this much longer. And as far as his sister is concerned, I would take out her furniture and not tolerate that nonsense.
I don't know what to say to help, but just wanted you to know that I'm rooting for you and I hope you can get through to your husband and make some changes in the near future to help your marriage and happiness. PM me if you want. Sorry this is so long!Good luck! :)
I would move all of you to a new apartment where there is a separate area/MIL apt for your MIL. Just rent if you can't afford to buy one that costs 600K.
Hopefully you can find an affordable option. Paying for her to have her own place is going to seriously cripple your own financial options--you may not be able to afford daycare plus working, PLUS your MIL's place. especially since, from what i get, NYC is ultra expensive. If you and DH aren't comfortable/happy with the situation, all you can do is find something that makes you guys happy. It's your marriage--you guys come first. You can't live in a situation that is unhappy. Nor financially crippling. Tell her you literally cannot afford it....it's the truth, isn't it? If she's really totally okay doing that to you guys, that's really unfortunate. But maybe if she understands there is a problem, maybe she will take it upon herself to actually help you and help rectify the situation. I hope you can come up with some ideas--maybe there are some couples who have similiar situations and found something that works. Maybe your husband can talk his mom into getting involved with some women nearby. Surely there are other chinese speaking women who need friends!!!
Coming from the perspective of someone who IS Chinese.
ok. First I am very sorry you are going through this.
I think you went into this relationship and marriage knowing the cultural implications that will come along with it. You moved into the apartment knowing the mother & sister are there.You are right in saying that it is a cultural thing and we are expected to take care of the parents when they are older. In our culture our parents took care of us our whole life so when we are older, mature, stable job, etc it is our turn to take care of them. At least for me that is how I view it. Disregard that true it is what is expected, but trust me, it's not THE way in every Chinese family anymore. Parents nowadays are put into nursing homes (trust me you do not want to do this. It shames them in the family), or living by themselves if capable or with live in help. Many live with the siblings.
I completely understand how having your MIL live with you in a small apartment can cause strain on you, your relationship and don't forget your husband as well.
Usually the parents live with the eldest child or the oldest son. So you are in a predicament that you moved INTO her home.
I think it is important you talk with your husband about these feelings. But do NOT portray it in such a way that you do not want his mother there. It sounds like your husband is a man who respects his duty as a son so it might not come off well to him. Try to find a solution together. Is there ANY WAY in the future you guys can afford to buy or rent a bigger place? Maybe something that might have a "in law suite"? My mother lives with my older brother and his family and it has caused a strain between the relationship of her and my SIL. My brother is typically stuck in between.
And I wrote the above before reading everyone's response so a lot of it is repeat advice.And I agree that I really respect that you are trying to understand a culture that is not your own, trying to come to a solution with your husband. And what I really respect is that you realize just because we are here in the US doesn't mean we just throw our culture out the window! The US is a melting pot of cultures.
Staten Island is a very affordable housing option. :)
My mom is constantly on our case to move back to NYC so she can move in with us. Which my husband -German/Irish- is open to....but if we do for MY sanity (hehe) the house will definitely need a inlaw suite. My mom is a worker bee so it will be hard for us to keep the house the way we want it. So I've thought her having her own space to do that will be the best.
I hope you guys can come to a solution that works for everyone. If you need to talk or bitch about Chinese Customs, send me a PM, I won't get offended! :)
P.S. You might hate it now but when you have kids you will love having her there! Babysitter! Noone better to watch your child than a doting grandmother.
My big question is why is your husband so afraid of his sister being upset, but not as concerned about his wife being upset? I think at some point you have to not tiptoe around the subject. Don't be a bitch, but you have to stand up for what you need. And from what I hear you saying, you need to have some space that is just for the two of you (I don't think it's unreasonable to have your own bedroom. I don't think the sister desk thing is a 'respect your elders' as much as it's 'I'm a bitchy controling human being' thing), boundries and the ability to make your own decisions.
I think your DH doesn't want to rock the boat, but with another person in the boat, sometimes it's going to get a little rocky. And if my Japanese mother is any indication, that rockiness can be very, very loud! Fighting (and even yelling) isn't always a bad thing, as long as there isn't personal attacks. I'm sure, if given a choice, your DH would rather you have stepped up and forcefully told him what you need rather than have you slowly leave the relationship until there is nothing left.
I have a few questions.
1. Why did he ASK sister to move her desk into the lounge? Who pays the rent? Whose room is it? Just move the damn desk and be done with it. Tell her she's lucky it's not in the damn hall.
2. What about your goals in life? Do you want to own a house and have kids? How can you do that if you end up paying two rents?
3. What do you want more? to live in a safe cheap small apartment with your MIL or with your husband alone in a more expensive place?
4. do you really expect a marriage to work if your husband fobs you off important discussions with "I've eaten too much"? Did you marry a man or a mummy's boy? Culture is one thing, being a complete pussy is another.
Tell him you want to discuss it. Take him OUT of the apartment to do it. Write down what you want to talk about. Use "I statements". Read the list, talk about it to him. Don't let him interrupt you until you have made each point then let him say something. MAKE A DATE FOR THE DISCUSSION. Say "I need to talk to you" he says "later" you say "on Saturday at 1pm". If he fobs you off then you have your answer - you're bottom rung, you so live with it or you move on.
Get tough and stand up for yourself. Wouldn't you rather cut your losses asap then stuff around for another few years?
My SO is chinese too. The cultural thing is a pain, but you know what? He got involved with me and my culture counts too. Yes it may not be as traditional, but me and my beliefs and values are just as important as his. And no, his mother can never live with us - no way.
Sorry, that may have come across rather tough. But I'm sick to death of my SO being such a fucking wimp while his mother is calling me a whore for being white. I had to sit him down and actually tell him to sort it out or it's over rover. He's got 2 months to man up or that's it.
Oh wow, you are a real saint. I can totally see how at first you might think this situation is doable but over time yearn for your own household. It obviously doesn't mean you don't love your husband if you can't adapt to his cultural traditions, but it does mean you need to address your feelings. It sounds like your MIL is primarily leaning on your DH for $ support now, why not his sister? Maybe he can put his foot down about that - that the two of them split everything evenly from here on out. Your DH sounds really nice and probably like someone who doesn't want to upset his family or create conflict, but now he has you to think about so maybe it's time for a change.
As far as getting your own space, maybe the two of you could move to a studio? And only give your MIL as much rent $ as you're paying? Some of your $ has to be yours, you should have a say in how much you give out to family, what is reasonable. And if the living situation is unbearable I would recommend changing that sooner rather than later because it will only continue to stress you out.
I love my MIL to death, but I know I could never live with her permanently. I mean that's jus tthe honest truth. She is also the type that would need to be in charge of the household regardless of financial contribution and that would really wear on me. I mean it wears on me after only spending 2 days with her! And she's super nice! So I totally understand your feelings there.
Good luck, keep us informed on how everything progresses.
So, my understanding is that the parents usually stay with the eldest child from reading pp's, so why isn't she living with his sister?? Seems like a rough situation, and you are handling it so much better than I would
Thanks for the advice everyone. Sorry it took me awhile to get back here and reply. I tried talking to him about it again on Saturday evening while I was doing dishes and it didn't end up very well. I threw out the suggestion that once we both completely finish school (he's in grad school and I'm working on my undergrad. I should be finished, but moving and transferring has slowed me down) and get good, permanent jobs, if we're still living like this, then I might move back to my home state and we will have to go back to a LDR. I would prefer that over divorce. It's far from ideal, but at least I'd be near my family, have my own space- maybe could even afford a house!-, and we'd still have each other. If I get a job in the education system like I hope, then that would give me a lot of opportunities to come visit. But he just got mad and said we might as well be divorced at that point, and he doesn't like that idea. He once again shut down and kept trying to walk off which is the biggest thing that made me angry. He kept trying to walk off because he said he didn't have anything else to say (when I called him on walking off he did come back at least, so he wasn't 100% trying to ignore me). And if he doesn't like it, that's fine, but I need to know what he DOES like, or what he wants or what he thinks, or something. He needs to put effort into it also. We ended up not really even talking to each other half of Sunday. I wasn't even suggesting that as a solution, it was more of a last resort type of thing because I just don't have any other ideas.
It's not that he's big on tradition or "respects his duty" so much, it's just that he hates to create waves. Understandably, being in the middle is such a sucky place to be, but either way he is anyway. He feels like he owes it to his sister to let her do whatever she wants because he has the utmost respect for her and he sees himself below her. That's not just the elders thing but he says she pretty much raised him, even though she's only 2 years older than him. We've talked before that I need to be first, and we haven't had any major issues with it in awhile, but it's still kind of there. Like every time he pays the gas bill, he writes paid and gives it to her. I really don't know why since he's the one in charge of it. That and he has a folder of every single pay stub from the past 2 years once he started getting direct deposit because his mom said he should. I just want to throw it out because he never files it away right away and it just piles up, but he won't do it. It's little things like that that are starting to drive me crazy which is how i know this just isn't sustainable forever. It didn't bother me before, but as time goes on, it's just picking away at me. I wish the way things are now could be ok forever and that non of this stuff would bother me. I really, really do. But I'm bound to end up miserable and I'm already beginning to resent them which is really just not a good thing. I'm going to end up disliking his family even though they're good people just because its going to drive me crazy.
I think part of the problem is that DH has very low ambitions. He's just not very driven and rather keep things the way they are. He's always afraid of the "what ifs."
@tobin: I'm really sorry your mother in law calls you a whore. I can't even imagine. At least if mine did I wouldn't know what she was saying :p FIL, while he was still in the states, would refer to me as "white ghost" though which is a derragatory term. Never used my name even though he knew it. At least that's what DH tells me because I don't speak Chinese. And I agree, just because I'm a white American doesn't mean I don't have a culture. My traditions and expectations should count for something too. Oh, and to be fair about his upset stomach, I heard the gurgling it was making and it wasn't pretty! So I'm pretty sure he wasn't faking that just to get out of the conversation. At least not this time, heh
@Gerbera: Thanks for your perspective. It's nice to hear your side. There were really almost no Chinese people where I grew up so learning about all these customs and traditions is still new to me. A lot of times DH doesn't even know! I guess I didn't leave a very good impression on his Uncle because I didn't pour the tea when we were out to dinner once. DH never even gave me a chance because he always took the pot! I certainly wasn't going to fight over a hot pot of tea which would have been bad manners in my opinion. Sometimes it just doesn't seem fair.
@Jenn23: thanks for sharing your story. Even though it's different, it sounds like you still went through similar struggles. Nobody in my family has even come close to a situation like mine, so it's hard to find anyone who really understands.
Oh, and as for why MIL doesn't stay with my SIL. For now, SIL lives with her boyfriend and they have a roommate, so I'm sure MIL wouldn't want to live with her. I hope in the future they will live together, but I can't be sure. MIL and SIL have a closer relationship with each other too, so I really don't know. It's something I'll have to ask about, if it's a possibility. I think I will write a list. Maybe I should even write a letter with all my concerns so that he hears me out without walking away. I just don't know when to bring it up. I know his work can be really stressful, but i just don't think this can be put off.
If he could simply say "Wifey, I promise that it won't always be like this and that we will have our own space some time in the near future" it would really put me at ease at this point. Before, I wanted a plan, but now, I would just be happy with the reassurance that when the time comes, he will grow a backbone and tell his family that we are going to do what's best for us. If they don't like what we offer, then too bad for them. I mean, my employer is Chinese and her husband is Korean but they don't live with their parents! Yes, they help pay for things, like right now they are talking about helping her parents remodel their kitchen. I guess maybe the difference might be social class though, since both they and their parents are very well off. But my mom isn't even employed and has come close to being homeless yet I'm still not taking care of her. MIL isn't employed, but she's not handicapped. She funtions just fine by herself. She gets around, she's active, she can cook for herself, etc. I told DH that when she's old and can't physically care for herself then I wouldn't mind as much if she moved back in with us. But for now, she's fine and could be living on her own.
urg. i just have so many mixed emotions on this.
Let me preface by saying that I mean the following with the utmost care and concern for your happiness, because I know it won't be easy to hear: I think your problem is not your MIL or your living situation. Your problem is that you need a husband who puts your needs first, your husband is not doing this, and you despair that he never will.
Rather, from your descriptions it sounds like that when it really counts, your husband is putting his own needs and fears first. He is being ruled by his need not to upset his mother and sister and his fear of change (the fear of "what ifs" you perceive as low ambition). The cultural differences sound like a scapegoat to me; many of the perfectly reasonable solutions others have suggested for your living situation respect both your cultures. Until he puts your needs first in a meaningful way, one that breaks this pattern, it doesn't sound like you are going to be truly happy. I really hope that you are able to talk with him about this, that he sees what a gem of a wife he has, and that he starts standing up for you as a couple. Good luck and keep us updated.
@chelseamorning: Thanks, I think that's a fair statement to make, and we've had discussions about this before we got married saying he would have to start putting me first. We seemed to have it worked out until recently. I guess it wasn't really resolved, he just got quieter about things. This is the type of thing that makes me wonder if maybe we were too young to get married :/ I don't have the same confidence that I had before that we could work through anything, but deep down I can't see us getting a divorce either. I guess the strength to work through this will just be there, like it has through past issues. I never was naive enough to think marriage wasn't going to take work though, just didn't realize we'd have to deal with something like this.
Yeah I think @chelseamorning is onto something there... He's afraid of upsetting SIL and MIL but for some reason not afraid of upsetting YOU. Maybe because he thinks you won't follow through? Maybe it's time to rock the boat. I like the idea of writing a letter, you should do that. And don't forget consequences!!! Explain your expectations and what will happen if they aren't met. You should be number 1, you're right. If he won't make you number 1 in his life, then make yourself number 1 in your life :) If he doesn't come around then you need to think about what your next move will be - and tell him what it will be in the letter.
My SO's parents have been here for over 35 years and still can't speak English properly. God knows what they say, I can't even be in the same building as them without a fight breaking out.
Mummy's boys are prevalent in all cultures I think. They are also horrible as partners unless you can bring them around. Don't settle for him saying he'll put you first, demand some action.
Best of luck, keep us posted. I really want to see this work out for you guys. xoxo
I think you should show him this thread.
Just tell him you're very frustrated and at your wits end. I agree with the PPs that mentioned it's odd that he is so concerned about making waves with him mother and sister but not his wife.
Good luck :)
I agree with Chelseamorning and Tobin 100%. He isn't putting you first which is the MAIN problem. My husband knows that if I am NOT happy, he won't be happy and he and I are 100% a team. If I even hinted at the possibility of divorce, he'd be at a marriage counselor with me in 2 seconds flat. We both are super committed to our marriage and making sure both of us are happy.
He knows that when his mom comes to stay with us, there will be rules, boundaries, etc (like I mentioned in my previous post) and he cares for my needs/concerns, etc. Even though he was raised in a different culture, he totally gets, respects and understands my NEED for independence, peace and quiet, etc. He and I have great communication which in my opinion is the main foundation of a great marriage. I don't think there are any marriages that work without it. Do you think it is possible that he would consider seeing a marriage counselor? Or would that be out of the question? The fact that he shuts down or blows up is not good, as you know. Without better communication, nothing will change. I really don't know what else to say. As I said before, I would be blunt. I also could not stay in a marriage in which I was with somebody who didn't put me first and care about my happiness. Not a good situation. I hope it works out for you!
I
I honestly have no idea why he's not worried about making waves with me. Maybe he's that secure in our relationship that he knows I wouldn't just leave? I dont know. That's another thing I'll have to ask him. He doesn't really believe in counseling because he doesn't think it actually works (and he's a psychology major!). He might go if I really wanted him to I think, but at this point I don't feel like it's an entirely hopeless situation yet,
We ended up talking a little last night. I had just wanted to ask him if he'd prefer if I wrote it in an email or a letter or if we spoke face to face about it. He chose face to face. I was just going to leave it at that and have the conversation later in the week or over the weekend when we had more time because it was already after 1am and we were both tired, but he wanted me to talk now. By the time I said everything, he said he didn't realize I had that much to say (and to be honest, I didn't quite realize it would end up that much either!) and that he has a lot to say in reply so we'll have to talk about it later. I think I'm going to set a "date" for this weekend for us to finish talking about it. I will still write the email just so that I can keep my thoughts in order. He can read if it he wants or not, but he'll have time gather his thoughts too. Some of it was a misunderstanding why he was so angry. From our last conversation about it, he thought I wanted to move out and that that was my big plan. But that was just my idea of what my last ditch effort would be if we were on the brink of divorce because of this. I can see why he'd be so angry if he thought that's what I meant by the whole thing. In his mind, I think he saw almost an ultimatum which would be awful for me to say something like that. sounds like he pretty much took it as "if you don't kick your mom out, I'm moving back to Indiana" which is not at all how i meant it. He just never gave us a chance to talk about it.
I just want to thank everyone for all their help. The hive has really been helpful. It's been great to hear different perspectives and simply just talking it out with everyone has really helped me get my thoughts in line and focus on the main issues that I'm having, instead of just having swirling angry thoughts in my head heh. Going back to reading my first post, I see that I was having a hard time putting into words what exactly was bothering me, but now I really feel like I know where to focus and how to better articulate what I'm feeling. This whole thread has been like a counseling session. It's truly been very, very helpful. Thanks evyerone!! I'll keep you guys updated *hugs*
@ejs4y8: I know! I feel like I should just print it and highlight things lol
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