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Have you talked to him about this? I mean, guys can be pretty clueless sometimes. He probably thinks you're content with how things are (FYI: merely dropping hints does NOTHING) and sees no reason to rock the boat with an engagement. Talk to him.
@Statutory Grape: i agree with you here. you gotta talk to him about it. boys aren't ways the smartest when it comes to relationships.
I second having a convo with him. I felt that i had "dropped out" my relationship a few months ago. I was ready to leave him, not because I didn't love him, but because I felt that he wasn't as committed to me as I was to him. I thought that he wasn't ready and would he ever be ready? I FINALLY decided to have a convo with him and it turns out that we WERE on the same page... I was just about 6 months ahead of his schedule and freaking out for nothing. ;-)
I agree with the posters above - it's not fair for you to drop out of the relationship if he doesn't know why that's happening. Have a talk with him and find out where he is in the spectrum of marriage. Then it's up to you if you feel tht he's worth waiting for.
If you view no ring as a vote of no confidence, you should be speaking to him to see if that is in fact what is going on. Your assumptions may be completely removed from what he thinks is going on. Does he know your walkaway deadline is December? Because if not, you're playing this all kinds of wrong. Relationships die without communication. You have to talk to HIM about this, not us.
Wow I don't know what to say...
I know many people say that if you really care about the guy, being with him and enjoying the relationship is more important than a ring. BUT I also know what it feels like to wait and wait and nothing happens... at one point, the pain and constant disappointment is too much and you are not there anymore...
I was in your shoes. My guy said he wanted to marry me, but wanted to buy a house first; and when I wouldn't agree to that, he asked me to wait another year, etc. I had been with him for 5 years at that point. His stance on it was that he wouldn't be living with me if he didn't want to be with me forever, but I wanted more and him not wanting to give me more made me distance myself emotionally from the relationship. I would always be in waiting with him - by the time he would have been ready to get engaged, I would have been ready to have children and would have to wait for years, again! Love is important, but timing is as well...
What I realized after that, was that as much as I had loved him, this problem between us was only one of many in which I always let him have the last word, and both of us were always watching over his best interest, not mine. I believe that in a couple in love, each should be watching over their partner's needs; and that was not the case, never had been.
I left the relationship, because for my sake, I had to start looking after my needs and be with someone who would actually WANT to be with me because he loved me - not because I was always there for him. And I had finally realized that I did not want to spend my life with this person - good thing he had not proposed earlier and we were not married yet; I was still able to step away. I met that person soon after I left my ex, and we were engaged after 18 months, married after two and a half years.
NO, marriage was not more important to me than being in a happy, loving relationship; but sharing goals and being in an relationship where we were both equal was more important. With DH, there was no heartache over getting engaged, because when we started talking about it, we were on the same page.
I guess what I'm saying is, if you are starting to emotionally pull away from the relationship, don't let people tell you that your priorities aren't straight, and try to find out if there might be other factors that you haven't seen before. Maybe you'll find that you're just not on the same page yet but it won't be too long and it's worth hanging around. Or maybe you'll find that you just don't have any more energy to put in this relationship and it is beyond mending. One way or another, just follow your heart and your head; have respect for yourself and make sure that your relationship meets your needs.
Oh yes, we've talked about it. And then talked some more. He says that he does want to get married and all. He knows how unhappy I am.
So basically he’s not proposing because I'm not happy enough and I'm not happy because he hasn’t proposed. So I guess I can either make myself be blissfully happy in our relationship like I was before (although that didn't seem to work) or I can leave.
Have you talked about any sort of timeline? Have you told him about your plans of leaving in December?
My SO and I live together. I told him MONTHS ago that if we were not engaged I would not be renewing the lease with him in October. I enjoyed living with him, but I did not feel comfortable signing another year-long lease without having some sort of committment.
Some people tell me that I shouldn't have done that, that it takes away the surprise, that it forces him into it etc etc. But for me, it was the best thing I could have done for myself... I did not force him to propose and did not threaten with a break up. I just said, I love you, but if you're not ready to get married then it's time for me to find my own apartment.
When he realized I was serious and what he would be losing he got the ball rolling!
@TinyTina:I don't think it was a bad approach to the situation. I don't see this as forcing him; I see this as looking out for yourself and letting him decide if he want to be a part of your happiness or not.
My FI and had a similar situation. We had been dating about 3 years when I got a new job in a new state and we decided to move here together. He quit his job and moved with me, on faith that he would be able to find a new job here, which he did (luckily). It was only after the move here that we started living together.
After about 9 months, we had "the talk" about why he hadn't proposed. I explained to him that I felt like we had been ready for a while and I was disappointed that he hadn't popped the question. I also felt that it was important for him to know that him NOT proposing was hurting my feelings. If he had concerns or was unsure, I felt we should talk about it. He assured me that he was 100% sure and had every intention of proposing. He even sheepishly admitted that he was in a bit of analysis paralysis. He had been devising so many different ways to pop the question that he was a bit overwhelmed with the decision.
That made me feel better so I decided to wait a bit longer to allow him to figure something out and plan it. In my head, though, I still had a bit of a deadline because I felt that now that he knew his indecision was hurting me, he should probably light a little fire under it and get to it.
In the end, he proposed about a month after "the talk." We talked about it a little after the fact and he said that once he heard me say the words that he was hurting my feelings every day he chose to wait, it woke him up. Guys just don't think like that. Gals, in general, are classic over-thinkers.
Good luck, and I wish all the best for you!
my own opinion (of course), but once you start to THINK about ultimatums... it's over. you don't want to marry a man who isn't 100% in it for the marriage. the wedding is just the first step. your relationship needs to be the most important focus. if you are wedding focussed and he isn't it will ultimately strain the relationship. either you won't be happy because you stay single, or he will be forced to propose and you will never forget that he wasn't ready (for whatever reason). i wish you the best of luck but seriously warn against deadlines !!
I don't have any advice for you....if I did I wouldn't be waiting myself! I do want to wish you good luck though. It's heartbreaking to see how many of us bees are sitting around, waiting, feeling awful that our men can't seem to pluck up the courage, money, etc. to ask us to marry them. I don't know if I blame the industrial complex that makes them think they need to give us a giant diamond and a huge wedding or the idea of life-long commitment but something holds some of them back and all of us normally calm, professional, amazing ladies just about lose our minds. I'm really thinking we need to write men a manual. We have Mr. B's plan, but they are clearly still clueless on their side of things.
Another idea; Why not propose to HIM? There's no law that says the guy has to do the asking.
Then it sounds like you might need some time apart from him. You aren't happy with the relationship, he's not doing anythign to fix it and refuses to so you need to be without him for a little.
It sounds like u need to talk to him ASAP. Communication is the key IMHO. Give him another chance to tell u where he is with the situation before you get up and leave.
"So basically he’s not proposing because I'm not happy enough and I'm not happy because he hasn’t proposed. So I guess I can either make myself be blissfully happy in our relationship like I was before (although that didn't seem to work) or I can leave."
@MissBuffalo: you can't MAKE yourself feel differently than you do! That is so frustrating to have to feel like your feelings are wrong. Does he know that the reason you're not happy is becuase of the feelings that come up when you start to doubt that you are the right fit for marriage?
For me, it did start to really grate on my nerves, thinking that I felt so strongly about him but he may not feel the same way about me. It's natural to start to doubt the relationship at that point. If you share that with him, specifically that your feelings about the proposal are what is making you so unhappy...perhaps he will understand.
Acknowledge that you've let the resentment build up and take responsibility for it. Let him know that you are feeling distant and you can't help that. You can start by saying "I'm sorry if I've been distant or emotional. Perhaps I should have brought this up earlier and more directly". And tell him how you feel. If the relationship continues the way things are, you know it will deteriorate as you continue to be unhappy and doubt his intentions.
It's important in a relationship to consider the other person's needs, you are supposed to be partners. If you leave, you're not leaving becuase marriage is more important than your guy. You would be leaving becuase you really need someone who is a friend and partner to you regarding this matter. And if he's not taking into consideration what is so important to you, maybe he's not a good partner.
Also, would you be willing to leave the relationship? I heard another Bee advise that you need to be 150% sure. That's why having a deadline date is good in your own head, but be cautious telling him your date becuase feelings change, and you may not have the courage to leave the relationship. Then, if he knows you backed down, he'll lose respect for you.
He'll be able to tell if there's not weight behind your words, he'll sense that there's not consequences to him and not take it seriously.
So basically he’s not proposing because I'm not happy enough and I'm not happy because he hasn’t proposed. So I guess I can either make myself be blissfully happy in our relationship like I was before (although that didn't seem to work) or I can leave.
This is some B.S if you ask me. You are unhappy for a reason. Like DreamingBee said, you cannot force yourself to feel any particular way. To me, it looks like he's trying to deflect the fact that he hasn't proposed yet by blaming his delay on your reaction to the delay, if that even makes any sense. If he really wants to marry you, knowing you are feeling unhappy and distant because you don't feel that he is as committed to you as you are to him should be enough to get him to move his ass and propose. To say you're not going to propose because your partner isn't reacting the way you'd like to the fact that you haven't proposed yet is emotionally manipulative and increadibly immature. He's basically dangling a carrot in front of you. Not cool.
Forgive me if I misinterpreted your post.
I think the problem is that you are basing your happiness on whether or not you get engaged, and that is an awful lot of pressure to put on another person.
You need to go out and find other things that make you a happy person, that have nothing to do with what another person is giving to you or doing for you. I think most men get very afraid of being responsible for another person's happiness.
@lezlers:I totally agree. It's like saying, "oooh, I know you want this but you're being all crabby about it so I'm not gonna give it to you." Sometimes I honestly think that men simply do not understand how hurt, upset, or awful we feel about the waiting game, even when we try to explain it to them. The ones that do understand and don't care? They just need to be kicked to the curb.
I hope things get better.
I agree with menobride when she said this:
I think most men get very afraid of being responsible for another person's happiness.
A man I used to date told me this exact thing one time. Not about me, but about men in general. That's another reason why I'm hardcore in the gym right now. I want to get fit for myself, not him.
I think the problem is that you are basing your happiness on whether or not you get engaged, and that is an awful lot of pressure to put on another person.
You need to go out and find other things that make you a happy person, that have nothing to do with what another person is giving to you or doing for you. I think most men get very afraid of being responsible for another person's happiness.
I do agree with this, actually, but I think you're overly simplifying it. I have a great life. I have a career I love that I've worked very hard for, I am healthy and fit and I have a wonderful family and friends. I adore my SO and we're quite happy.
I still hate waiting and sometimes I get angry and resentful towards my SO for making me wait longer than I feel is necessary. My happiness is by no means wrapped up in him, but the fact that he's making me wait for something I want so badly despite being happy with my life the way it is, still gets to me sometimes.
It's really not as easy a fix as hitting the gym and joining a knitting group.
I feel for you MissBuffalo! That is not a great position to be in... December really isnt that far away though so I would make sure that he is 100% clear on what will happen at December if there is no proposal. Sometimes boys just do not click that we are 100% serious with these things.
Despite having had multiple discussions with my boy in recent times about when would be the right time to get married, the most recent discussion seemed to be the one that really stuck with him.
That said, I would suggest concentrating on yourself now. Finding some new interests and hobbies is a great distraction.
Good luck with it all - I hope it works out well!
@menobride:I disagree with that.
I don't think it's about being engaged or not, but about knowing without a doubt that your SO loves you and wants to be with you just as much as you want to be with him.
Whitout that feeling of certainty, you can't plan for the future with that person even though you feel soo ready for that, because the other person won't tell you where they stand, and it makes you doubt that they feel for you just as strongly as you feel for him.
It's impossible to be completely happy in a relationship where you feel like the other person doesn't feel the same way as you, or they tell you that they do but their actions do not reflect that. It goes deeper than the status of engagement.
Anyway, that's how I see it. And DreamingBee, thank you! What you explained put in the right words what I was trying to share with my story... with English not being my first language, sometimes it is a barrier to explaining exactly what I mean.
@menobride:
I think the problem is that you are basing your happiness on whether or not you get engaged, and that is an awful lot of pressure to put on another person.
I respectfully disagree, I don't think it necessarily means she's unhappy in general just with that aspect of her relationship, and he is sort of responsible for that.
Well, I agree on both points above I guess. On the one hand, I do think you should try to focus on yourself and building up your own interests / hobbies. On the other hand, if you know that you want to get married, you don't want to stay in a relationship that won't lead up to that. Three years is plenty of time to decide.
I would give him an inkling of the fact that you are leaving before you do it. As other posters said, there are some difficulties involved in this, but, you don't want a situation where he is planning a surprise proposal and you unexpectedly walk out. I wouldn't say "I'm leaving on X date if we're not engaged," but as you get closer, have some talks and let him know you're re-evaluating the relationship if things don't change.
@galore5: I disagree. I think deadlines are very important for women, especially ones who want families. FH has an aunt who was ready to get married and start a family when she met then man of her dreams at 27. He made her "wait" until she was 36 years old to get married. When she tried to start having children a year later....she no longer could. They dropped tens of thousands of dollars on fertility treatments that didn't work only to be told it would never happen for her. Her dearest dream-- of having her own children, with the man she loved-- evaporated. This was all very sad and frightening to watch play out. And it seems to me like their marriage hasn't really been the same since.
And I can't help but think things might have been a little different if she had put her foot down sooner. If having a family of your own is of equal or greater importance to you as having a man you love, it might be good for someone to keep looking until she finds someone she loves who also wants the same things out of life as she does.
I constantly feel this way. I really don't know why I know but my bf of two years does not know if we should get married. I feel frustrated and sometimes find myself looking other places for attention. Don't get me wrong, I've never cheated...but his dragging his feet makes me feel like maybe I'll just bump into my soulmate on the street somewhere and we'll know instantly. I really don't have any advice for you, but just know others are in the same boat. Some men are worth waiting for no matter how much they drag their feet...some aren't.
I have ZERO advice for you, Sorry I just wanted to say you are definately not alone. I am in the exact same situation and I feel your pain...
*hugs*
I was hanging out with FI's cousin, who has been dating his girlfriend for almost as long as FI and I have been together. He said "She's so focused on getting married, I feel like that's all she wants is to be married and it seems like it doesn't even matter if it's to me or some bum off the street." He also said "We have a lot of issues we're trying to work through, to me it seems ridiculous to get engaged when we haven't solved any of our problems." And he finished it by saying "I don't understand what the rush is. We're living together, she's in school, we're young, I just feel like she wants a new piece of jewelry."
I also talk to his girlfriend alot. She thought they were getting engaged nearly a year and a half ago. They went ring shopping in December 2008 (after knowing each other one month). He said that he made it clear when she dragged him into Kay's or whatever that it didn't mean they were getting engaged anytime soon. It was JUST looking because she wouldn't let him leave the mall without looking.
He's ready to leave the relationship because she's so "obsessed" (his word, not mine) about getting engaged and getting married. They don't enjoy each other anymore and they certainly don't communicate.
I know I was CRAZYYYYYYYYYYYYYY when I was waiting. But FI and I did talk it through, we laid out all our doubts, fears, expectations, everything. I tried really really hard to heed everyone's advice about enjoying my relationship and that this is a special time and stuff like that. But it was really very hard.
I hope that you two work everything out and I wish you all the happiness in the world.
@missbuffalo - instead of waiting, why not propose to him? its the 21st century.. you want something go after it instead of waiting for it to come to you.. tho that would depend on the type of guy he is. not all of them are that forward thinking. lol. I agree with everyone else, talk talk talk talk and see where things are. i would say to my now fiance "you better hurry and brand me with a ring already or im just gonna have to propose to you myself.." haha i said it as a joke and it made him chuckle but it made my point. ;)
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OK Bees,
I'm at the point where I see the lack of an engagement as a vote of no confidence on my relationship. We had this really great relationship for the longest time. Then after our 3rd anniversary rolled around last spring I felt that we had had the most amazing relationship and that if he didn’t know if we should get married or not by now, that nothing I could do anymore would be enough.
Shouldn’t he know by now that I'm the one?
My drop dead date on our timeline (the point at which I walk away) is in December, but I feel like I’ve already dropped out. I'm pretty withdrawn from our relationship and am sad about what I see as his vote of no confidence. I'm sick of wanting this more than he does and maybe there’s a perfect guy out there who will be on the same page as me. Maybe if he doesn’t know if he’s sure about me now, he’ll never know.
Does anyone else feel like this?