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So I just really want to vent on this... I've been very vocal for a long time on the fact that I am not changing my name. I would be open to hyphenating ONLY if he took the same hyphenated name with me, or creating a new name together, but both of us love our given last names, so that's not really an option.
Recently, after my best friend got married and changed her name - something she made a definite compromise on - my fiance told me he would have preferred me to change mine. After a couple of years of me VERY forcefully letting it be know that I am keeping my name. I'm the sort of person who is so geared up to not change my name that it makes me sad when female friends of mine do change theirs. Obviously, his opinion is not really affecting my decision, but it was a very weird thing to hear from him. I've told him that it would make me happy if he took my last name, but he kind of laughs that off. Awkward because I hate double standards, but understandable because everyone calls him by his last name.
On one hand, I think it's awesome that it's relatively socially acceptable for me to do either. And he can't push me to one decision or another. Seriously, if it were change name or stay with him unmarried, I would choose the latter in a heartbeat - it's not that I don't love him, but that to me being Mrs. FI instead of Ms. Me means not being me anymore in a way that makes me sick to my stomach). I know what I'm doing and he's not pressuring so much as making an adorable sad face, but does anyone have any advice on how to cope with disappointment/irritation at a guy's reaction? Right now I keep wanting to talk it over with him, but he knows what I'm doing and I know he's okay but not ecstatic with it, and it's probably annoying the crap out of both of us to discuss it over and over.
I am not commenting on your relationship. Especially if he is just making sad faces and not pressuring you. For me, if my fiance was the type of man who got bent out of shape by (or was anything less than support of) a woman keeping her own name, I wouldn't marry him. I find it disturbing that a young man in this late year would expect a woman to change her name but laugh at the idea of changing his own. I would worry what else he is sexist about, and what other artificial gender roles he would expect, because that attitude is clearly not neutral to women.
I'm not totally in the same boat as you... because I haven't decided what to do yet about my name. (But I already have a hyphenated last name and it starts to get more complicated... just wrote a post to vent as well!) But I totally understand the guilt thing. I thought my FH wouldn't really care about it, but he's made it clear he'd like me to have his last name... But he's also said since he doesn't want to change his name, he understands if I don't want to change mine.
It's hard I know, but I guess you just have to move on. You've made your decision and he's "OK" with it. So time to move on to talking about other things about the wedding that make you both HAPPY! I mean, you ARE getting married, so there's got to be other things about that fact that make you both feel good instead of guilty!
One question: are you thinking of having kids? If so, whose name will they have?
I guess I don't understand why women wouldn't change their last name. Maybe I am just old fashioned in the belief that when you get married, you are entering into his family. No, you aren't completely abandoning your family, but you are joing him in his family. And having his last name still makes you "you", but with just a new last name.
I don't really understand why you get upset when your single friends decide to take their husbands name. The women's movement is about choice - we have the choice to keep our maiden names or change them! Everyone has the right to choose!
My name is not who I am! I will be the same person after I take my FIs name - I will just have a new family (Me and Him for now;-))!
If you don't want to take his name don't but I do think you guys should be on the same page.
Have you talked about him hyphenating with you? Have you talked about who's name the kids will take (if you are planning to have kids)?
From my perspective, my name does not define who am I. I will be changing my name after the wedding this summer and for me, it signifies that we are a family now - we are united - when we have kids, there is no question that they are both of ours. I like that people have this choice, but for me, there was never any doubt in my mind that I would change my name.
The only hard part for me is that I am starting in a professional field and people are beginning to know me by my name. If I had a really established career already, I would consider other options, but I'm not in that situation.
It seems like your fiance is totally accepting of you not changing your name, he just doesnt like it. I think thats something that he's just going to need time with. It sucks when you have to make hard choices like that, I don't think it says anything about your relationship, I think you two just have different opinions and that's a good thing! I agree that talking over and over again might be dragging both of you down, I would stop talking about it, he knows your going to keep your name and as long as he knows its nothing personal against him I think you'll be fine.
I tease my FI about keeping my name but I would never do that. Call me old fashion as well but I'm looking forward to changing my name.
We all have views that dissapoint our spouses and significant others, and this is dissapointing you. That makes sense to me, it would really dissapoint me if FI was doing this, even in the non-serious way your Fi is handling it.
One way you may want to approach is just to tell him, "look, I've made this decision. If you want me to change my mind, we need to have a serious conversation about it. But what I don't want is dissapointment face and the gentle chiding. I know you're not trying to be mean, but I really only want to talk about it seriously or not at all."
@ Rosie: I am not joining my husband's family. We are making our own. That point of view, though valid, has no resonance with me whatsoever.
I feel ya. I am in the same boat. My FI says "I don't want to talk about it"!
@monitajb: True. You aren't joining his family, but you are creating a family with him, and because of that I feel that you should share the family name (last name).
For me, I didn't have much attachement to my given last name - it's very common and every other person has it, so I was actually looking forward to getting a more unique last name.
The other reason I really wanted to change my name was to simplify our lives, especially when we have children. I want to share my children's last name, and I want us, as a family, to all have the same last name, as opposed to my husband having one name, me having another, and our kids either taking one of ours or hyphenating. Plus our names hyphenated really don't go well together. So I took hubby's name instead!
Do you want children someday? What will you do with your kids name-wise when/if you do?
After going through the legal process of changing my name for a month now and I'm only 25% through changing everything I would have kept my maiden name legally and had his name socially. So would that be a good fit for you? I would think it would give you the flexibilty of having both when you want/need to and make him feel satisfied. Don't know just throwing it out there.
I don't think he's unsupportive of your choice, or that he doesn't agree with your ideals. I would hope that after a long term relationship and the upcoming marriage, you are on the same page about the majority of your values.
I think more likely, there is simply some deep-seated social bias and assumption that he has been exposed to all his life that makes him a bit uneasy. It is also possible that he worries about how other people may interpret your decision. It's like me and ketchup on eggs. I KNOW it's not wrong to eat ketchup with eggs. But I have heard for so many years that you aren't supposed to do that, it makes me a bit queasy. Then I keep eating it the way I want, and eventually I don't care if other people think it's gross. Not that it's even remotely on the same importance scale with your name, but just an analogy :-). How we logically think about something and how we feel about it can be very different.
Personally, I changed my last name because I really like His. I am still confident in my own independence, career, and choices. In my circle, I have actually had to face more of the opposite questions, "WHY WOULD YOU CHANGE YOUR NAME?" especially since everyone knows my husband didn't care. HE would have changed his to mine if I had asked. The simple answer is because I want to - the same way I wanted to wear a white dress. You don't have to justify to anyone about your choices. It's yours and yours alone.
@monitajb Said everything I came here to say (and we're date twins to boot!) To address your issue, the thing that would bother me is that he's not having an honest conversation with you about the topic. He knows you feel strongly, and instead of openly saying either "I accept that it's your choice, but it still hurts my feelings" or "I'm just going to need some time to get my head around this" or whatever, he's hiding behind humor. He's making silly faces and laughing at legitimate suggestions as a way to avoid having a frank and honest conversation about it with you, and I think you should call him on it. He doesn't need to be thrilled with your decision right away, but he needs to accept that this is important to you and respect your decision enough not to tease you about it, because nothing productive is going to come from him making sad puppy faces.
One thing I will say is that I am chosing to take my husband's name. It's something we talked about and decided together, and like @Future Mrs. Martin says, I don't feel my name defines me. And I'd still defend your right to not change your name, and to not be judged for it. So why are you judging those of us who do decide to change our names? Not trying to be flip - it's a legitimate question. It just seems odd to me to celebrate that you have two socially acceptable choices, but then pity those who choose differently then you. Isn't it better to be happy you can choose what's right for you, and your friends can choose what's right for them?
Oh, man, so many responses! Thanks, guys. It just helps to see other people think about it. The situation between us is fine - we understand we both want to keep our names, and may not find the other's decision ideal, but respect it. It's more that this is on my mind a lot and it's kind of dumb to keep having the same conversation with him, so I thought I'd bring it up here.
I know a couple of you mentioned not feeling like your name is a big part of your identity and I can respect and understand that. But to me, it's a big part of my identity - I have the kind of name people regularly compliment me on. Plus I am very close with my father's family and want to see myself as a part of that family.
We don't intend to have children, so we're not too worried about their last name. I'd like to give them mine - it is 25% more awesome than his and I'm the one who'd have to give birth and all that. But probably not an issue either way.
@Chicagobride - That's kind of the way I feel, too! It's ok for others to feel differently, but I am hardcore about keeping my name and him respecting the decision. So, yes, it is ALL just him making a little sadface and understanding, but thinking it would be nice.
@FutureMrsMartin - I don't really get upset. I know it's other people's decision and choices I'm just kind of surprised and maybe a little sad which I know is none of my business but I'm working on it. Though the one friend in question I know is very sad about having done it... it was basically part of a compromise with her husband but I think his end of the bargain is something he would have done eventually anyway. So even though I adore the guy she's marrying, I feel like she let herself get pushed into a decision she didn't really want to make because he had old-fashioned ideals about it.
@Vintage2010 - I actually don't want to go by his name socially. Though I have progressed from feeling like I'd yell at anyone who calls me that to thinking it's kind of nice to be reminded that we're married but also nicely letting people know that's not actually my name.
It is so interesting to read the responses from both sides here. I am not planning to change my name when I marry. Mostly because I am lazy, but partly because I will be in my mid-30s by the time I walk down the aisle, and I *like* my name. I did however promise my guy that being called Mrs. X socially won't bother me in the least. My guy's parents divorced and remarried long ago, so he doesn't have the same last name as his mom, step, or half-siblings, and it doesn't matter. His relationship with his mother isn't defined by their different last names. His sisters and brothers are no less dear to him because of different last names. I'm all for making your own choice, and for telling people pressuring you to do something different to mind their own business. If your fiance dislikes your choice, but doesn't consider it a deal-breaker, than he will just have to get over it in time.
I actually got guilt on the other side of it. He's not thrilled with the idea of me keeping my name. But what's worse is the pressure from many of the women in my family to keep my name. I recently came back from a trip to visit my mom's family and all the women keep their names. It's part of the culture there. I'm still pretty undecided, and leaning towards keeping my name.
@ChiCat & Monitajb - thanks for the well thought out responses. I should clarify that he's been a little more adult and clear-spoken than just making sad faces. But it's basically in that range of reaction - it's not what would make him happiest, but he doesn't want to convince me to do something that would make me unhappy. So there's no need for a more serious discussion because we're both pretty satisfied with having different names.
I agree with what FutureMrsMartin & Rosie Girl have said almost exactly.
I never thought of not changing my name. I know we're both traditional on some things, but I want us to be a unified family, and to all share one name. I'll always be my last name, whether it's legal or not.
Hahaha....it might be sad, but I have always known I wanted to change my last name so that my intials would quit being ADD (yes I have such cruel parents ;-) ).
Actually I am going to have two middle name and a last name, so it will be ADDT, but most people will just call me Mrs. T I think.
@pmerr - I guess in theory I like the idea of us being a unified family, but I don't see how having the same name really makes us more or less so. It can be a symbol, sure, but I don't see it as unifying if I'm making what I consider a huge sacrifice he doesn't have to make. For other women, it's not a huge sacrifice and that makes sense to me, but to me it is huge and would make me feel less united with him.
I mean, it depends on the couple. I would feel so weird having either my kids & husband with all one name, and I have a separate name, or vice versa. That's just me. It's just one of those things I'm more traditional on, and I would never judge or think that a family isn't unified just because they don't share a name. I may think it's foreign, but it's because it's not what I believe or want to do. You know? So I guess I'm not too big of a help lol. I would suggest creating a really cool name using parts of your last name that you really love. I did see a website that combines things for you, but I have no idea which it is. The only other one I would see is both taking hyphenated, which you BOTH could have BOTH names. I did see that he didn't want that though. So, I guess I really can't help too much, because the only options I would suggest you've already thought of & won't do.
@pmerr - no it's helpful just to be able to think it through without having the same conversation over and over. Which basically consists of:
Me: I like my name. It is awesome. I keep it.
Him: But it would be nice if you had mine!
Me: Mine is better! You should take it.
Him: I don't wanna. Mine is good.
Me: That's okay - I don't wanna either. Love you.
Him: Love you too. This is boring.
I feel like I might feel weird as well having a different name from my husband and kids. But I don't want kids, so it's not an issue (and if we had kids, I think we'd hyphenate/combine/give them the name of the person who birthed them).
I agree with pmerr. BUT, what if you took his name legally and went with yours socially? Don't tell anyone you took his last name. Or make his last name your new middle name?
Yeah. I'm sure it gets old. I guess if you don't want kids, then it's not as big of an issue. I would just worry about changing your mind, but you have a plan for that. Stuff like that is important to me, even at 21. I guess it's my traditional-ism :)
@Rosiegirl - I wouldn't change my name legally, part because I do feel really attached to mine and part because it's pretty intense effort for something I don't really want. I do like the idea of taking his name as a middle name, though! The only issue is that my middle name is really important to me sentimentally. It's my Dad's sister's name - she died before she turned 2, so they gave me her name as a middle to honor her.
@pmerr - That tool is awesome! Most of the things our names combine to are totally over the top, though. At the risk of being internet stalked, we could be the Kasmastarrs or Stakasmans (the Stakamen?)
Personally, I changed my name. I wasn't very attached to my maiden name (have some bad family members with the name that I don't want to be associated with). It wasn't hard to change my name, went pretty quickly actually once I got down a system.
My stepmother didn't change her name. She had a career all set up before she got married.
Okay, I was originally in the "same name for the sake of our future family" boat, but you know what, if that is SO important then why aren't men (as a whole, obviously some do) willing to make the compromise (compromise being changing one's name for the sake of unity)? My fiance and I had this conversation and he flat out said "I don't like that I want you to change your name. I don't want to be that type of man. But I can't help but want you to. I understand if you don't though because I wouldn't want to change my name."
I'm still undecided. Part of me wants to hyphenate. Part of me wants to stay the same and have our children be hyphenated or have my name as their middle name. I need to decide.
There will always be things that we do that people disagree with. The best you can do is be true to yourself and deal with the criticism.
I'm in the "if he won't change his name then I'm not going to change my name" boat. My BF still thinks I'm going to change my mind and take his name. Not. Going. To. Happen. I really like my name, and I don't want to change it. I'll be married either way, and when I have kids, they'll be mine regardless of what their last name is. I don't think that a name defines a family, and I know plenty of children (in my family and that 2 families that I nannied for) that don't have the same last name as their mother, and they're not adversely affected by it. I wouldn't feel guilty about it if I were you.
Ah, I see. Well if you've had rational discussions about it, and have agreed to disagree then I think you need to tell him to knock it off! :) If you see his point of view, but haven't changed your mind, and he sees your point of view, but hasn't changed his mind, and you agree you've explored all your options (hyphenating, two middle names each, etc) and this is what's going to make you as happy as either of you is going to get, then you both just need to drop it. Nothing productive comes from talking about it more, it's just picking at a scab. He's bummed - you know, but you're not changing your mind. You're bummed that he's bummed - he knows, and that's not going to change either. So acknowledge you're both bummed for now, but be happy that you're ultimately satisfied with the arrangement and will both get over it eventually. Then agree not to bring it up again unless something changes.
Have you discussed the reasons you don't want to change your name? I think in a case where his feelings are hurt by your choice it's important that he really understand all the complicated and deep feelings you have about this. I think it's normal (if disapointing) that he wants you to aknowledge that his feeling are hurt that you're not chaning and I think it's critical that he aknowledge how upset you would be to change and how much thought you've given the issues. Other than that I would just give him time - in a little while you might be surprised to hear him sound all proud as he tells someone that his wife did not change her name thank you very much because x, y and z. Our SOs tend to be proud of the principled stands we take - even if they don't necessarily agree.
My FI and I had a pretty long discussion about this. I'm attached to my name, he wants us to have the same name. I suggest my name, he doesn't even consider it. We compremised. I will go from (names changed)
Sarah Jade Campell to Sarah Jade Campbell Wilson
And he will go from
Scott Robert Wilson to Scott Robert Campbell Wilson.
And children we have will be known as
First Middle Campbell Wilson
It works for us.
Seems like this has turned more into the pros/cons of name changing and who did what and why.
To the OP's question - coping with your guy's disappointment and reaction. From your thoughtful and emotional post, seems pretty clear that this is an important subject to you. I would deal with it by sitting down for another long conversation and just laying it out there: "I am firm in my decision to keep my name or hyphenate for both of us; and while I appreciate that you aren't seriously pushing me to change my name, it still makes me feel guilty when you make adorable sad face."
And then it might be helpful to talk together about (again, right?) why it's important to him to change your name, and why it's important to you NOT to, as well as your residual guilt -- I think that piece is important, because it shows that you are thinking of him in your decision, and how it affects both of you. Maybe it will help him come to accept and respect your decision.
Good luck.
Thank you for all the advice. It's really, really helpful to see everyone's thoughts (from a whole range of viewpoints) here, because as ChiCat said, at this point we're both okay if not ecstatic with our respective decisions, and it's just picking at a scab to bring it up with him. I can understand rationally that it's going to take a little time, but in the end, he doesn't want me to do something that makes me unhappy and I'll understand that he's okay with me making that choice, even if it upsets me that he wouldn't consider changing anything himself.
@Arachna - I'd like him to understand my reasoning more thoroughly and why I consider his stance (not name changes in particular, but how he has a double standard in what he wants me to do vs. what he would do himself i.e. he thinks it would be great if I added his last as a second middle but wouldn't do the same himself) so offensive. But at this point it's contentious and counterproductive to bring up. He supports my decision, though not enthusiastically. He's generally pretty progressive, but there's a little bit of male privilege he needs to unpack and examine... I'm just going to have to wait until another topic/occasion to bring that up, though, I think, for my own mental health.
I'm in the exact same boat, although my FI has had time now to get used to my opinion so he's less inclined to negatively respond in situations where it comes up.
It was really hard getting to that point though and although you don't want to have bad conversations that's exactly what it took for US to get there. Lots of "If you won't change your name, why do you think I should?" with pushing for REAL responses and investigation of what's beneath that and, like you said, discussing male privilege.
Now he's not so much "on board" as he understands my position and respects my right to make whatever choice I want regarding my name. Now we're just dealing with his parents who are very much NOT on board and make it clear every time they can.
I feel much the same way as you do about my name - it's part of my identity, and always has been - but I do have that same wish for a shared family name, like Rosie_Girl and pmerr mentioned; however, I totally disagree with the idea that our new family identity should just be his old identity. We're starting a family together as partners and equals. I bring as much to the partnership as he does, and I really, passionately resent the patriarchical ideal whereby my identity should be subsumed into his. When it first came up in conversations between FI and I, I asked if he would consider taking my name. He laughed it off at first too, so I asked why he would expect me to do something he wouldn't do himself. He's since given it a lot more thought than I had expected, honestly; I've since told him that I'm happy to either 1) keep my name or 2) do what Roux did, and share a new, double-barreled last name with him, and he can decide. He quite enthusiastically decided to change his name too, and seems to take great delight in telling his friends of the decision - I guess, like Arachna said, maybe sometimes they're secretly proud of our feminist principles.
Have you asked him why he laughs off the idea of changing his name, yet expects you too? There are plenty of traditions in the world, and many of them are downright awful - just because something is the norm, that's no reason to do it! I don't have any advice for coping with disappointment over his reaction, like you'd asked, because were I in your place, my gut response would be much like Chicagobride092010's - and I can guarantee I'd hound him about his expectations on gender roles and equality in our relationship... but I think you should stick to your guns and not give up a middle name that is so meaningful, when he won't even budge an inch. You're not the one that should feel guilty - he should!
I wanted to give everyone a bit of an upate. We had a talk last night, no jokes or silly comments which is pretty hard for us. I told him it wasn't what he wanted that bothered me, but the attitude behind it and the way he expressed it to me. That I felt like he was wallowing in his male privilege rather than examining why it might be better to break outside tradition. I acknowledged that a guy changing his name does sometimes get unusual or negative reactions to it, but that at heart I don't want him to change his not because of that, but because he loves his name and the family it comes from. I also pointed out that women often face judgment no matter what they do, and that I'm trying really hard to be accepting of others' choices - that at this point it's really only particular circumstances when I feel like people are manipulated into a choice they don't want that bothers me.
I also told him that if my middle name was not really important to me, I would take his last as my middle, to incorporate a part of his name into mine. He thought that was really sweet, but said that given how important my middle name is to me and my family (named after a relative who died in early childhood), he wouldn't want me to. We both agreed that second middle names are kind of unwieldy and not worth the effort.
I also brought up the highly unlikely possibility of kids, and he's really starting to get that I can and do share the same desire to carry on my family name and history that he has. That his being male doesn't give him a monopoly on that right. I didn't want to spend much time on the issue, since it's only a hypothetical one, but he got that it's very important to me for them to carry on my name, that in the event we do have children, if it happens, it's a huge sacrifice for me (pregnancy + childbirth + really, really being against having them in the first place = ouch) and I will want to pass on my name to them *as a last name*, but can compromise and pass his on as well because I understand his desires. So on the off chance we do have kids, they'll be little hyphen-children or something like that.
Anyway, that got long, but I wanted to thank everyone who chimed in... seeing others' ideas and opinions really allowed me to bring it up one last time, no jokes, getting to what exactly it was that upset me and explaining why. As a guy who's normally really cognizant of privilege and inequality, he was able to see what he did and why it made me so sad. We're good now, and I don't have a driving desire to keep bringing up the topic. We're changing nothing, but I'm happy, he's happy and I feel so excited at the prospect of marrying him!
I understand, I cringe every time I hear about someone taking their husband's last name, especially if their FH somehow forced or pressured them into doing it.
Double standards kill me!
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