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Not really sure where to post this.
My fiance has been at his current job about a year now. He works with mostly women, and within his department (which is only 4 people), it's all women. It's a small, young, and laid back office. Sounds perfect, right? Well, it's not. Yesterday he was helping a co-worker do something on his computer, and he saw an email from a girl in his office inviting everyone to her house next weekend. My fiance didn't read through the whole thing, but he said it looked like most people in the office had been invited.
He came home really upset, because this isnt the first time something like this has happened. He says he trys to talk to everyone and make small talk, but they just dont seem interested in any type of friendship. He's so upset that he even mentioned working from home for a while (this is allowed, but I think it's a bad idea).
My fiance definetly lacks some self esteem. When we go out, I always joke that he becomes friends with everyone-the pizza guy, the guys at home depot, etc. But sometimes when we are in groups (especially with people we dont know very well), he can be reserved and come across totally different than his real personality. It's funny because I am actually much more reserved and quiet, but have more friends. He didn't graduate college, and it's something that he is actually quiet ashamed of.
I just feel so sad for him. He wants so bad to be included, and he's just not. I know part of the problem is that it's mostly women. Women can be clique-y and it's tough to break that, especially being one of the only guys in the office.
Any words of wisom?
@tovaford12: Wow, that was really helpful.
He was helping a co-worker do something on the computer and the email popped up.
@tovaford12: Wow, snarky much....
@Bostongrl25: I know it can be really hard to be excluded. One of my old jobs was very clique-y, and it sucked. They went bowling after work, etc. and never invited me. It definitely makes for an unhappy work environment. Maybe you and he should have a BBQ or something and invite everyone over?
@Lindsay12.31.2010: agreed, I think maybe hosting something and inviting everyone, and allowing them to see the guy you see might help in this matter. Still, I'm sure it sucks to know you are being excluded, I feel for the guy :(
@tovaford12: ummmmm your RUDE!!!!
OP...that sucks...but he should probly say something! I know i would! and maybe working from home is not a bad idea..... Its hard when you feel like the out cast.
why dont you guys try and invite some co workers over?
why don't you two set up a get together and invite his co-workers?
if everyone turns down the invite, then you know something is up. then he can confront them... and if it comes down to it and he's really feeling bad about being excluded, it's become an uncomfortable/hostile work environment and his HR should be brought in.
BUT... if the invites are accepted and they show up at your place, then you can be there to help your fiance open up and be more outgoing with his co-workers. and... it might put the girls at ease. without you there, they might be feeling like hanging out with their male co-worker would be crossing a line of some sort.
Thanks guys. I suggested last night that we invite some of them over, even just the guys and their girlfriends. I also suggested meeting them for drinks or dinner and I would drive up (he commutes about an hour). But he said he didn't want to. I think he was just really upset at the time though, so maybe I will suggest it again in a couple days when he has cooled off.
I think almost everyone has been in a situation like that, and it sucks. I have always worked with mostly women, and sometimes girl can be really tough!
@tovaford12: Someone get up on the mean girl side of the bed today?
I'm the same way as your FI (introverted with extroverted tendencies with strangers). I agree with PP that you should have a get together with his coworkers to break the ice. The women of his office may simply think that he doesn't want to be invited because he is male. I know he is the only man in the department, but are the other men of his office invited out? That might give you some clue.
@tovaford12: hahah. Honestly, why even reply to my post if you think this is a joke? Obviously you are having a very boring day.
THis happened to me at my current job and I totally understand how hurtful and upsetting it is. It wasn't even just weekend plans, everyone from my group would literally all get up and go to lunch together without inviting me and frequently would set up happy hours after work and leave me out. Same with your FH, it was a group of cliquey girls who were arranging it and the boys didn't want to get involved in the drama so they just stayed out of it and didn't try to get me invited.
So anyway, my advice to your FH is to just ignore it. The girls 'get off' on leaving someone out, I can almost guarantee it. Otherwise, what is the point of leaving out one single person from the office? How horrible would it be to just include him? The answer is, not at all - but then it wouldn't be a clique. For about 9 months I kept my head down, concentrated on work and ignored all of the obvious times I was being clearly left out and slowly but surely things took a 180 degree turn for the better. I made my own friends at my company outside my department and started to not even notice when I was being left out. Then the main ringleader witch actually left the company and there was no one organizing/leaving out anymore. The group broke up and I had my own social circle that had a much better reputation since we weren't so exclusionary. It ended up hurting the other clique in the end, they even got a talking to from the higher-ups at our company and were 'banned' from all standing together at social events.
Sorry for the long personal story, but hopefully it helps. There is light at the end of the tunnell. IT will hurt for a while, but honestly, he doesn't want to be friends with people who are capable of doing that to someone.
@tovaford12: If it sounded like a middle school problem, then you didn't have to comment. Just like the OP was allowed to post what she wanted, you are entitled to your opinion. But because you chose to be snarky about it, you can get called out.
Also, trolling is SO middle school.
@tovaford12 Why are you even part of this community? Be helpful or go away.
@tovaford12: I smell a troll lady...and an ugly one at that. please dont respond to her. to flag her comments and keep it moving :)
@moderndaisy: Thanks so much for the advice. he has been doing just what you said, igorning it and concentrating on work. The good thing is that he's doing a great job at work and gaining great experience. Hopefully he can do what you suggested and things will slowly get better.
@tovaford12: flagged.
OP, that's probably very difficult for your FI - do the women he works with know he's engaged? If he's one of the only guys, they might feel awkward inviting him to a 'girls night' type-deal, especially if they know he has a FI and don't know how you would feel about it.
I think the idea of you guys hosting a dinner or game night would be great. It lets the other women know that you are cool with him hanging out with them, you sound like a good conversationalist, so your FI won't have to feel out of his comfort zone, and hopefully someone will reciprocate the invite.
If they don't, or no one wants to show up, then you know there's more going on.
@Bostongrl25: i think you should go up there and and "surprise" him with luch and chat it up with the ladies a little bit. That might be the spark that you need!
The following Comment guidelines apply when posting generally:
Just letting you know that I have flagged you. I would definitely say that you comments are insulting at least and a personal attack at most. either way... flag-worthy.
@hisgoosiegirl: This is what I think too. I wonder if they exclude him because they don't know you well, and aren't sure how you'd react to him hanging out with other women? Maybe if they meet you and see that you are comfortable with them, they might invite him out more?
@hisgoosiegirl: Ya, I actually considered that too. Honestly, at work I gravitate towards being friends with the women more than the guys. The girls and I go to lunch and take walks, etc. but I dont invite the guys. It's not that I don't like them, I just have more in common with the girls. I tried explaining this to my fiance, but it doesn't make things any easier.
@MrsStrawberry24: Thats a good idea actually. Maybe I will take a day off soon and go up there and meet everyone :)
Oh and yes, they know he is engaged. We got engaged just a few months after he started working there
@moderndaisy: ugh, it does suck! I'm pretty introverted, but if people invite me to do things, I usually will. This summer some co-workers who hang together a lot (just a bit older than me) invited the intern from my department to go with them to drinks/early dinner before coming back to the office to work on a project until about 11pm - that I was helping with as well.
Mind you my department is 3 people in this office, and my boss was out. It was pretty hurtful that they invited the intern (who sat next to me and was probably my closest co-worker) and completely ignored me, when we all know each other and I was going to be working with them the rest of the night.
The intern was super-sweet and asked (as she was leaving) if I wanted to go and I just said I needed to finish up something. I didn't want to go if the 'ringleaders' didn't want me there for whatever reason. So I completely get how it can sting. You spend almost more time with your co-workers than your SO, so to be excluded is no fun.
I think because they are all women, it could be more of a girly type thing and thats why he wasnt invited. I do agree that you going over there might get things going.. but you want to be subtle about it.
@Bostongrl25: oh, and if you do something, I would invite the women's SO's as well. Let everyone get to know each other.
@Bostongrl25: my FI is kida shy and laid back and it sometimes comes off like he is an A$$hole (which he is NOT lol) so when he started his new job and went up there and brough some yummy brownies and cookies (cus everyone loves chocolates and sweets lol) and talked to a few people.
It broke the ice for sure! Good luck pumpkin! your FI is so blessed to have someone that is so worried about him and is happiness!!
@tovaford12: Middle school problem? I guess somebody's slip showing at work is life and death....
Thanks ladies!!! I appreciate the support and advice. I will be baking some cookies soon and heading up there for a visit :)
@hisgoosiegirl: OMG, the same exact thing happened to me several times!! There would sometimes be someone new who would be invited or even a coworker who I was close with who was visiting from another office. That person would inevitably come over to me as they were all leaving and say "Hey are you coming?" or "Do you want to come with us out to the bar? or out to lunch?" and in order to avoid a scene or awkwardness I would make something up, usually that I was too busy with work or had other plans already.
You are totally right that you spend more time with your coworkers than anyone else in your life, so being left out totally sucks. But if you just hang in there and not let it get to you, eventually things get better or they get bored with trying to leave you out. Like I said, I totally stopped even noticing I was being left out after a few months! And shortly after that the group broke up anyway. So in the end they lost and I won!
Hey guys! Flag rather than retaliate please. I'd rather not have to moderate every single comment on here. It's a lot of work for me, and none of the rest of you want warnings ;) I haven't even had a coffee yet! LOL!
I understand why your FI feels badly about this, but I just don't think that adults should be required to invite all of their coworkers to a private party. It would be different if this was a work-related event. I don't think this coworker is being mean, she is just having a party and inviting her friends. I agree with several other posters that your FI could invite his coworkers to an event that he organizes to show that he is interested in being friends with them outside of the work context.
@paperumbrella: I agree, I don't think anyone is "required" to invite anyone. But when you work in a small office and consistently leave just 1 or 2 people out of everything, it's just hurtful and mean. It wasn't just this one party-it's after work drinks, lunches, etc. If you are inviting everyone else, why not invite one more?
And I don't think she did this to be hurtful (i would hope not), I think they just aren't a very welcoming group.
I always advise young people entering the workplace that the best way to network and build relationships with colleagues is to go to happy hour. Its the simplest thing, but it really is effective. If think he should suggest a happy hour one Thursday/Friday evening to a few co-workers. Having a few drinks with the people you work will go a long way for him. I don't think you should be getting involved by going our with them or inviting them to your house, it would seem kinda weird to me especially if he is an introvert at work.
@paperumbrella: I would understand this if it was a bigger office. But when it's a small office and only a few people are invited and one is specifically left out, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
@reebee: Yes, I do don't think you should do this. I think it's more like OP's FI should be a 'bit' more active at work. See when others are having lunch (if it's in the cafeteria) and ask 'Mind if I sit with you?' and talk a little bit. Step out of your comfort zone etc. You don't want to just invite strangers to your place. What if they legitimately can't make it? Your FI would feel worse. She can also do what a PP did, bake brownies/cakes for the work place.
@moderndaisy: That totally blows. And I'm telling you, after working in NYC for years, some of these ladies are cray-cray!! It's happened to me on a smaller scale though. They were ALL smokers so everything had to involve smoking. Whenever they were not at their offices, it was a smoke break. Going to lunch, smoke. Happy hour, smoke. Dinner smoke...and gossip. Catty catty gossip. I was glad not to be friends with them ThankYouVeryMuch! Glad it all worked well for you.
@bRooklynRocks: I have suggested he invite them to lunch or drinks, but again last night was emotional so I'll give him a few days to cool off. It definetly makes it tough having mostly girls, it could be slightly awakward inviting them out after work. And the only 2 guys in the office are younger (hes early 30's and they are early 20's). He does talk to them, but they just dont have much in common. My fiance spends his weekends working on the house, and cooking fancy meals. The other 2 guys go to bars and pick up women (which is how my fiance met me in the first place! haha).
I know he needs to step out of his comfort zone. I can't do it for him, and it's giving him that extra push that is tough for me.
While I like the idea of inviting them over to your place, the hour drive may turn some of them off. Maybe in a few days get your FI to email out to everyone and invite them out for happy hour drinks using the fact that you'll be up there and want to meet everyone.
OMG your fiance's office sounds like a copy of mine! Difference being, my office is bigger but the population of employees tends to fall in the 60+ or 35-.
The amount of young people in my age bracket (20-30) is few and far between so we usually all hang out together. This summer I started getting left out for no apprent reason. When I confronted the ring leader she told me that I was naive to think I could be invited to everything because sometimes, there just isn't enough space. I was like..WTF? So you can invited everyone else and your honestly comfortable telling me there isn't room for two more (myself and FI)?
Tell you husband that it isn't worth his time getting upset by his coworks. They are MEAN, enjoy being MEAN and get off on being MEAN. Making friends outside work is his best option.
What his coworkers fail to realize (what is beginning to start at my work) is that young women get pregnant! When parts of their clique leave, their group will slowly fall apart. He will be fine. They will be a mess.
I think your most recent post is an example of why your FI may need to make the initiative here. If he is of a different demographic than the rest of the office, they may assume that he would rather spend his free time working on the house or cooking, rather than go out with them. I do agree that it is rude in a small office to coordinate work-related outings, such as lunch or after work drinks, and not invite everyone, but maybe be because he is a little reserved and "different" (not female, not 20), they assume he is not interested in hanging out. Honestly, I don't think it would cross mind to invite my older, male coworkers to lunch because I don't think they would want to come. Rude, probably, but not intentionally hurtful.
I also think some other posters (not the OP) are perhaps projecting their own experiences onto this situation. From the information provided, I don't really see any evidence of mean girl behavior. They may be a little clueless, but nothing so far shows that they are intentionally being mean.
@Bostongrl25: Aww I know this from both sides, OP!
My fiance is a bit on the young side with his coworkers. They all used to go out for happy hours, lunches and make weekend plans and leave him out. He was very discouraged. Then one day, we ran into their 'leader' one morning grabbing breakfast, and I noticed how reserved my fiance was around him (formal- not at all himself!) and I joked around with him about his sports teams (rivals to mine) and invited him to dinner at our house with his gf that upcoming weekend. They came by, I made a great meal, and little by little, we would be invited out with his coworkers. Then, my fiance would go alone, or sometimes I would just to try to build solid relationships. He is now attending one of their bachelor parties in a few months when this time last year he was upset he was not included.
As to my side of this- I have worked in offices with mostly women and I will say this, I have worked with many men who are off putting. There have been a myriad of reasons they were excluded- perceived indiscretions by the females in the group, perceived flirtation, perceived arrogance (when they were really just shy!), or real arrogance. I always tried to include them and invite them out, but often the girls just werent themselves arounf a singular guy at lunch or HH. I am not sure if this helps, but maybe it would help him to know this is not just something that happens to him alone! I would definitely try to engage these girls in a lunch or HH date, or perhaps meet up with them one on one to try to build some relationships.
@paperumbrella: I have already agreed that he needs to step out of his comfort zone and make more of an effort. It's tough to do when you are constantly excluded though. And yes, it's also tough being an older guy, but the other two guys ARE invited. Regardless if the girls do this intentionally or not, it's rude and thoughtless. Inviting every person in the office except one is rude, no matter how many excuses you tell yourself.
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