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So, I work in retail for the moment while I'm finishing my degree. I was working today and a lady came in asking if we carried our clothing line (I work for VS). When she found out that we didn't, she got all huffy about how she couldn't believe that we expected people to buy from the catalogue without trying on. She then made a comment about going somewhere else because they made clothes for "real women". She was a little larger sized, nothing too drastic though.
My question is this: What the hell is a real woman? I'm not a big girl, does that make me less of a woman? No, I dont think so. I was honestly kind of annoyed by her comment. I get that a lot of women are larger... but a lot of women aren't. Why do I have to be a larger woman to be considered a "real woman"? I don't. I absolutely hate that phrase.
I wanted someone else's opinion on this. I wasn't offended, just annoyed. It seemed like a really rude comment to make.
You know, I really think that when women say that they are just expressing jealousy for their thinner, less curvy counterparts. Honestly and completely, I think that. And I'm not being a butthead when I say that, I could afford to lose 35 pounds myself.
You know what, I'd cut her a break. It is probably very upsetting to go to stores and not to be able to fit into clothes - the average size in this country is like a 14 or something, so it's true that the majority of women don't fit into lots of clothes they see in magazines, etc. It sounds like you were offended to be called unreal, but she's probably been hurt a lot feeling like she doesn't belong in stores, etc! I would just try to shrug it off as not being about you at all, just someone who feels hurt.
I totally agree with you. It is such an irritating comment to make. I'm a dress size 4 and I feel very "Womanly" I just think a lot of people use that phrase as a crutch, and hurt "unreal women's" feelings.
I feel you. I am way smaller than the "average" woman. It doesn't make me any less than a woman.
Even on these boards I feel a little targeted at times, even though I know that noone means any harm. When women say "0" and "00" aren't a real size I get a little sad. Or when someone looks at a model's picture and says "who wants to be that thin anyways?" I cringe a little. By no means am I model height, but I'm even smaller than the average model size. My sister is perfect model proportions/height with not an ounce of body fat in sight. I feel for her when I hear women say that models aren't realistic or real. We both have healthy appetites and indulge our cravings, neither of us starve ourselves by any means. But I'm still a real women.
And this isn't a rant against bigger women, because I come from a family where me, my mother, and one sister are the exception. I feel for those that are slightly larger but wish that they would realize that those of us who are smaller are also real people, with real feelings.
I realized I contradicted myself. What I meant to say in my first response was "less curvy" in quotes! Expressing sarcasm, of course.
:D
It's likely that it was a stab, but I can also see where she is coming from. It is disheartening to go into store and not be able to see significant enough differences in a S, M or L shirt for some lines of clothing. If someone is on the thinner side, things like this can seem not that important or not that big of a deal, and they might not even realize how often it can be an issue for those who don't fit certain molds.
However, it's also not okay to treat thinner girls as though they deserve less respect because someone who isn't thin is jealous. That is very catty and counterproductive.
I will agree that it probably was frustration at not being able to find anything in her size. I think the avg size in the U.S. is 12 and in many stores, that is considered a plus-size..go figure. I don't think the woman meant her comment so much towards you...as towards the clothing industry which seemingly caters to the smallest part of the population (both in numbers AND size).
The comment was rude...but I would just take it in the way that it was most likely meant and keep it moving.
Women can be so catty sometimes. When I was with my old trainer who was a woman in her 40s with insane muscle tone and not an ounce of fat, people said horrible things about her! Just because she is thin and works out a lot doesn't make her less of a woman!
@babyboo, I've seen TONS of super thin and slender women in person (size 0, 00, etc) who are even my height (5'11") and they don't look ANYTHING like models do. I don't know if it's the stances or the lighting or what, but I never see women in person that look like models, if that helps. Just to mean that when i see a model in a photo ad, I don't like what I see, but when I see a slender woman in public, i just think she's slender that's all. My mom was a 00 back in the day, and she NEVER looked like those models.
It is annoying when stores don't carry my size, too, but what can you do about it?--i'm tall and i'm busty and sometimes I don't fit into a L or XL. I can't wear a LOT of clothes in a LOT of department stores. I doubt i'd fit into VS clothing. THier pajamas, maybe. But I don't get all huffy about it and take it out on a saleslady! That's just tactless. I just shrug and say, "oh well, they don't make clothes my size" and I go to a store where they make clothes that fit me. They don't make pants long enough for me either...whatever!
If she's gonna get all in a hissy about how she doesn't fit into certain clothes, I hate to say it (and this might be kinda mean but oh well), but maybe it should be a wake up call to her. You can be a healthy size 14 and you can be an unhealthy size 14, and I don't know which this woman was, but maybe she's just frustrated with her weight.
On the one hand I agree with you, and on the other, it doesn't get you a lot of sympathy to be a thin woman saying "I'm a real woman, too!" ;) It's truly unfortunate that the "standard" of beauty is now so small and thin that average-sized feel so marginalized. It doesn't really make it okay to marginalize slim but healthy women instead, but try not to take it personally... she's had a much harder time finding clothing that fits in her life than you might have and is just expressing her frustration, even if it's not in the most productive way.
I agree with what everyone else is saying for the most part, and I love that y'all are bringing up the question of why do we think a skinnier woman is "less" of a woman?!?
I'm going to throw it out there that I have the exact same problem as this women, but in the opposite direction! In most stores, their size 0 is still too large for me, and it is extremely frustrating. I'm relegated to the teeny-bopper clothing, and/or paying extra money on top of my purchases to have things taken in. Ugh, how I wish things fit me sometimes! And, when I sometimes complain about it/if I'm getting frustrated in a dressing room, the typical response involves the person saying "well you shouldn't complain, you are skinny." It makes me feel bad about complaining...but really, is it that wrong of me to be upset? Harumphhhh
Just shrug off her comment...in my opinion!
Ugh! Retail! I feel for you. I don't miss the job I had working as a cosmetics counter mgr. However, I have been frustrated with VS before. Not because they don't sell clothes in the store. Hello - they have a return policy and you can return the clothes if they don't fit. But, I get frustrated because their clothes run very small compared to other brands. I am a street size 4. I used to be a 2 and when I was, I ordered from VS a lot. The tops always shrank up and ended up showing my midriff, even if that wasn't the style they were supposed to be. Everything just seems to run on the small side. I stopped ordering clothes from them, but I still order bras and panties. I feel the same way about Juicy Couture. I own a hoodie by Juicy Couture that is a large and is super tight. If I normally wear a 4 and a large is super tight, then what is someone who is a 12-14 supposed to wear?
Sorry she took out her frustration on you. That is not right.
@spaniel- I'm not looking for sympathy. And I'm not even a 0 or 00. I'm a size 8. I think a woman in any size can have trouble finding clothes that fit her. I have tons of trouble finding jeans that fit my body. I'm not taking a dig at larger women and I understand how they feel. The rest of my family is all larger and I've watched my mother (who is a size 18) go through it, but I have never heard her take a dig at a thin woman.
I guess it's fair to say this is why there are SO MANY STORES for us all to go shopping in.
One store is not one size fit all
Pun intended =]
@EJS: Oh I totally get that the models in pictures are airbrushed/look a little odd compared to how they look in real life. I just think that sometimes people forget that models are real people too :)
@Katiebug: I still fit into a lot of clothing in the little girls department, well except for my out of proportion large chest ;)
Oh and for those women who go buy jewlrey/shoes because they "always fit," I don't even get that luxery, haha! Bracelets fall right off my hand and rings don't come small enough (even at Claire's) because I have the most alien looking/itty bitty wrists and hands :p
@babyboo Oh gosh, I hear you girl. I definitely fit into the kids clothing...but I've stopped buying them (although sometimes I find that they have the same pieces in little girl sizes that are cheaper...I found some fun cardigans from Gap and Old Navy a few times...I was proud of myself).
Sorry, I'm having a little bit of foot-in-mouth disease this weekend. ;) I didn't mean to imply you were looking for sympathy. Like I said, I agree with you, I was just trying to see it from her perspective so that smaller-than-average size women don't have to feel bad about her sort of over-the-top statement.
I think what she meant was that a "real" woman wears larger than a size 10 or 12 and according to THIS article she is right.
I know how hard and frustrating it can be because when I shop with my mom, we go to a variety of stores for her and we surely have a heck of a time finding a size 14 or 16 for her in any of those stores. She's too small for a store like Lane Bryant, but too big for a majority of other popular go-to stores.
Also, as far as "real" women go, it seems that clothes are made for taller and thinner women. I'm not a large woman, I'm only 5 feet tall, but I'm also not super thin. I'm somewhat curvy, especially my bottom half, so I have the worst time finding something as simple as a good pair of jeans...they NEVER fit, EVER. Sometimes they don't fit over my big thighs and they usually don't fit around my waist well because of my large rear end, and to top it off, because I'm short there is always so much extra length.
So, at the end of the day, I think when she expected a store to have clothes for a "real" women, she expected there to be clothes that would fit a myriad of body types from short & curvy, to tall & curvy, to short & thin, to tall & thin, etc. not just "average" sizes.
If you're not a hungry model, in mho you're a real woman. lol.
Good lord.
Since when does a fast metabolism, healthy eating, working out and genetics make me less of a woman? I'm skinny. Inny minny, I admit it and I'm not ashamed of it. And I have a hella hard time finding clothes to fit.
I'm not curvy. I don't have large boobs. I'm an A cup.
But I'm pretty sure that my vagina, uterus, cervix, ovaries, mammary glands (however small their containers may be), and chromosomes make me 100% WOMAN.
I've been on both sides I am five foot and at one point weighed 70kg I was so down on myself and used to get so angry that I had to wear the largest sizes at the shops, I have since lost 25 kg and am now well and truely slim. I get narky comments all the time from bigger people. At the end of the day I'd rather have a snide comment about being skinny than, no comment at all because I am fat.
I think that "real" woman might be extreme... but for "most" women or something could be an ok comment. The average size in America is a 12 or 14.... with most women falling between 10 and 16. I am a size 14/16 and it is just really frustrating to shop in a lot of stores who hardly carry anything above a size 12. You're then left with department stores and maybe 1-2 stores that cater to larger sizes. I'm sure the comment was out of frustration and not meant as a slight against you personally.
I would be annoyed too. She definitely seems bitter about her size, don't take it personally. I find it interesting that rude comments against thin women are somehow considered ok ("skinny bitch!" or "go eat a cheeseburger!"), whereas an equally rude comment against an overweight woman would be intolerable. I have a few friends who are naturally very thin, just like a PP mentioned, and it is astonishing to me the anger that some larger women project towards them. It also kind of bothers me that "curvy" is sometimes used as a euphemism for obese; I am a size six, have a small waist and a big butt, and consider myself deliciously curvy - NOT overweight!!
Peanut, I don't think most people consider comments for skinny women ok, at least the ones you said--calling someone a bitch isn't ok.
And as for the lady in the store--wow, way out of line. And yeah, women are women!
Oh yeah. I've had total strangers ask me if I'm anorexic and others have told me to eat a sandwich. I worked with four girls that called me "skinny bitch", even buying me a birthday card that was printed with it! They thought it was hilarious but Cinema is right - that's never okay. I would NEVER ask someone that was obese if they had a food addiction or whatever, or make snide comments about how they need to eat less. I honestly could give a crap what anyone else in the world weighs - what does that have to do with my life? I worry about myself.
I was made the way I was made. And I'm happy with me. I wish every woman in the world felt the same way about themselves. We were all given things we have to work on - no one is exempt. You just learn to change the things you can change and deal with the things you can't.
I think every female has a hard time finding clothes to fit, regardless of size, because we are all different shapes. I think considering someone as less of a woman because of their size is basically the same thing as considering a woman with a double mastectomy less of a woman or a woman that dresses more masculine less of a woman. It's judgement, and it's not cool.
Ugh, this is an issue that really frustrates me. I definitely think that the clothing industry needs to be changed, because I do agree that people put way too much emphasis on being thin, and the models you usually see set a standard that most women can't reach. I don't think that is okay and I really think that women of EVERY size are beautiful and are all equally "real".
However, I am very small, and it is so frustrating to me that random people think it's perfectly acceptable to comment on my weight/make me feel bad about being thin. I can't tell you how many "eat a sandwich" comments I've gotten over the years - I don't even know what to say to that other than "I'm sorry that I exercise and eat well?". I will never understand why people think it's okay to make fun of someone for being thin.
@ cinema, layla, amanda: clearly its NOT ok to make comments about anyone's weight; I meant that for some reason people assume that a mean remark about someone's weight or appearance is not hurtful if you are thin. It's ridiculous.
@peanut - I was totally agreeing with you. And it is a crazy double standard.
This sort of body prejudice can go any which way...short, tall, big, little, curvy, flat. I weigh 115, have a 26" waist and wear a 30D bra. Not that you need to know my specs, but if I make a single word of complaint about finding clothes that fit properly, I get comments like "Puhleeze! You can wear anything! I don't want to hear it! Us NORMAL women are the ones that have a hard time finding clothes!"
The grass is always greener, I suppose.
@Minutiae- I get the same thing! I was on a diet and working to lose weight because I had gained 12 lbs. from the BC I was on. All I got was sarcastic comments about how I didn't have anything to worry about and I was "psycho". Excuse me? Trying to be healthy and get back to a healthy weight is "psycho" just because I didn't let it get out-pf-control and I am not 100 lbs. overweight? Seriously! If I am working to be healthier and fit (I am by no means anorexic!), shouldn't people be supportive?
@arizonabride I get that all the time too. as I said b4 I have been fat and I have been thin, but noone ever commented when I was fat, but everyone feels like they have the right now that I am thin.
This is how I feel about this post.
I am 159.9 pounds and a size 10/12.
AND I DON'T CARE!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) I AM DROP-DEAD BEAUTIFUL, SEXY AS ALLLL GET OUT --- AND SO IS EVERYONE ELSE WHO BELIEVES THEY ARE!!!!!!!!!!!
the end. ugh. i hate weight drama.
I went to a women's college. As far as I know every woman there, XS to XL, was a "real woman." Women who use their minds and hearts and love their bodies are real, no matter their size. We wore "I love my body pins," during our annual "I love my body" week. I think maybe every woman should have one of those pins!
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