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One of the guys in our wedding party, let's call him "Vnce" is a total jerk. He has been friends with my fiance for many years, and because my fiance is such a patient, understanding and kind person he has stood by Vince throughout his selfishness and idiocy. Vince is married and has a daughter. He is miserable in his marriage because the pregnancy was originally unplanned, he had broken up with the girl, yet was onlly forced by her parents to marry the girl.
He has been married for two years and has been resentful and hateful towards the girl throughout this marriage. I can understand why he is so resentful, yet what bothers me is the fact that he always mocks me and my fiance's decision to get married. He says things like "marriage is for suckers"... "there's a 50 percent divorce rate"... "you guys are wasting your money on this wedding"... etc.
My fiance and I have asked him repeatedly to keep his damn comments to himself. If he is going to be in our wedding party, he has to try to show some support and if he can't do that, then just please don't say anything at all.
Yet, he continues to bash us and his other friends who gets engaged. One of their other friends already dropped "Vince" from his wedding party, because of Vince's poor attitude. I want to do the same. I told my fiance that I don't want this guy to stand up with us on our most special day if he doesn't even believe in marriage. His presence will be just all bullsh*t on that day.
My fiance refuses to kick "Vince" out of our wedding party. He says that "Vince" has been there for him through thick and thin, and now that he was going through a rough patch, it's his turn to be there for "Vince." This really pisses me off because I don't want this guy in our wedding party! It is an honor to be asked to be a groomsman, and he is not taking that honor seriously. I don't know what to do. I feel like confronting Vince on my own and kicking him out myself, but I don't want to upset my fiance.
Please tell me your opinions?
I'd be pissed if i were you, too, but at the end of the day, he's your FI's friend and you can't dictate who his friends and whos' in the wedding party. You've already expressed how you feel about it and your FI put his foot down. You may not like him but i don't think it's really your place to kick HIS groomsman out. It'll cause more problems unless your FI decides on his own accord it is the right thing to do.
Why can't I kick him out? He's being a sh*t disturber (sorry for my language)... but it's my wedding too, right? Shouldn't I have a say in who's in the wedding party? I'm just at the end of my rope with this guy.
I agree with you AmberEyes - I'd want to kick him out. Your FI says he's supported him through "thick and thin" yet he's giving you a hard time about getting married. That doesn't seem like he's supporting you guys at all, and this is a wonderful, happy occasion. See if you can bring it up to your FI like that, that Vince isn't really being supportive at this point. I think you have a say who's in the wedding party, even if it's a groomsman. Just because it's on the male side doesn't mean you don't get a voice.
I hear what you're saying, but if your FI says no, you can't just do it anyways and expect your FI to stand up for you.
You should have a say in your wedding party, but your FI should have one, too, and if he isn't going to budge, I don't really see what you can do about it! Tell Vince he can't come anyways? Do you really think that'll fix it? Cuz I think this Vince character would show up to everything anyways and then your FI would just saying 'yeah my FI wants you out, i don't agree' so really, you're NOT on the same page. It's better if you have a united front.
Talk to your FI about WHY this guy is making you mad. Then have your FI go talk to Vince and tell him to back off or there will be more problems to come. Maybe he will curb his attitude if he's sat down like a little boy and told what's going to happen if he doesn't shape up.
Hmm, I guess I have a very non-traditional perspective on wedding parties. Honestly, I think it should be both people's decision on each side who's in the party. Ultimately, yeah, it's the groom's decision who he picks, but I think that if the other has a serious problem with someone, it should be discussed and looked at together. Afterall, each wedding party member is supporting the marriage, not just one person.
My FI chose a groomsman that he had been friends with since childhood. They have grown apart over the years, but my FI and this person had a lot of history, and therefore, wanted him to stand up for him on his wedding day. We both agreed and he happily accepted. Things got really weird after that. He started planning his own wedding as well (wasn't engaged when we asked him, not that it made a difference, of course), and for him, it became this weird competition. He started spreading really awful rumors about us and our wedding, and eventually, just went off the deep end and our friendship with him became really strained. My FI had to talk to him because we BOTH decided it was out of control, and hurting our feelings, and it was mutually decided by my FI and the friend that he not be in the wedding party. If you ask the friend though, we "kicked him out" and we're "awful, horrible people." The friendship no longer exists, and he's not even attending our wedding. Honestly though? It's a relief to both of us because it was ruining our wedding planning, and we're 100 percent certain that it was the right decision for us, and will make our wedding day better.
I would have a calm talk with your FI again and explain that it's really hurting your feelings and putting a huge damper on your wedding plans. It really should be a joint decision, I think.
I also agree with ejs4y8. It can't be just your decision. You going to talk to "Vince" on your own would just make things worse. But yeah, your FI should be taking your feelings into consideration more.
I'm with ejs4y8 -- you can't really kick "Vince" out without getting your guy's OK. Yeah, you should have a say in the wedding party, but so should your fiance! If he still wants "Vince" to stand up for him, I think it would be a bad idea for you to try and go behind his back to fire "Vince." You'll upset your fiance, and Vince will gain new ammunition for his stupid "marriage is for suckers" rants.
See if you can get your fiance to sit Vince down, in private, and tell him that he's really upsetting both of you, and that he's starting to understand why your other friend ended up kicking Vince out of the wedding party. I think ejs4y8 is right -- sitting him down like a little boy and giving him the "shape up or else" talk might just shame him into shutting up.
If that doesn't work, you're back to trying to get your fiance to agree to kick Vince out. I think other people have given you good ammunition for the argument that he shouldn't stand up for your marriage, since he's so anti-marriage himself. Hopefully your fiance will listen to your objections, and get fed up enough with Vince that he agrees!
I'm so sorry you're upset about this groomsmen, he's sounds pretty miserable but I think I'm with ejs on this one, if it's someone your fiance feels really strongly about having in the wedding, then I think you should respect that and figure out a way to make things work...You've already stated your feelings to him, so that's a good start...You may just have to basically try and avoid him until the wedding and let your fiance deal with him...Also, I know it's really hard for you but clearly he is not at a good place in his life and the bulk of that unhappiness is directly related to his own marriage, so I'm sure it's hard for him to see other people in happy relationships looking forwards to their weddings...It is definitely upsetting to have someone in the bridal party be so negative but hopefully you guys can figure out a way to keep his bad attitude from affecting you...Good luck!
I'd talk with your FI about this from the standpoint that you respect their friendship, but it's inappropriate to have someone stand up at your wedding who does not support it. That would really bother me. I know guys don't like admitting to having heart-to-hearts, but he should be able to tell Vince that even though V was pressured into a marriage he didn't want, you two are going to be very happy and as a friend he should support that choice.
Honestly...I'd kick him out!! Who wants a person like that in your wedding party, I think it would make for too much DRAMA. CAn you imagine having to take professional pictures and he's there whining about it! NO THANKS!
I know people think that it's your fiance's decision too and it is, but your fiance should compromise with you too!! After all he's marry you and not his boy! So maybe he could have another job...like a person passing out programs or something!! Groomsmens and bridemaids are meant to help and relax the marrying couple not cause STRESS!!
GOOD LUCK, please let us know what happens!
I agree with mary alice - talk to the FI about your feelings and that you don't think Vince should stand up since he's not supporting the marriage. He can still support your FI, but shouldn't be there standing up, if he won't support the marriage.
Oh boy. This just doesn't sound good and I'm so sorry you are stressing over this guy. I have to agree with ejs4y8's advice. BUT, I also must say that the people who stand up next you at your wedding should be people who are extremely close with you and that would you consider family. If this is a 'yes' to your FI, than it is his decision. I would also have an issue with anyone in our wedding party who didn't believe in the institution of marriage and constantly mocked it. The least he could do is get some tact and 'act' the part when discussing your wedding in front of you.
I hope you're able to come to a conclusion that both you and your FI can live with. Keep us posted, girl. Hang in there. Chin up!
Thanks so much, everyone. You all brought up very valid points. Jingle96, you're so right about Groomsmen and bridesmaids are meant to help relax the marrying couple, not cause stress! And I can totally see Vince whining about having to take pictures. He has already whined about having to spend for a tuxedo, and for the bachelor party.
I know where some of you are coming from, that kicking him out will upset my FI and that it should both be our decision, not just mine. But honestly, it's just not right for a couple to have an unsupporting jerk to stand up with them on their wedding day.
Another thing I forgot to add is that this guy said he'll only be a groomsman if we have open bar. All he cares about is himself, he doesn't care about my fiance. I don't know why my FI is so blind to this guys idiocy and actually refers to him as his "brother"... so bullsh*t!!! Sorry for my language.
Can you ask your FI to lay down the law with his friend? Guys actually do have heart to hearts all the time, and if one guy asks another to do something reasonable... it's almost always done.
Btw, it sounds really really important to your FI that Vince be in his wedding party. One of the things about marriage is that you guys will end up disagreeing about many things. It quickly becomes about respecting the choices that your partner makes, even if you don't necessarily agree with them.
Ideally your FI would also take your opinion into account - but that doesn't sound like it's happening here (yet). But one thing I've noticed: if I put a lot of pressure on my wife about something, we are less likely to find a common ground. But if I let her know how I feel and back off, things seem to have a way of working out...
Good luck!!
I would probably want him out too, but think about this scenario - if you either force FI to kick him out or kick him out yourself, you're really only giving "Vince" more material to talk sh*t about marriage to your FI. From what you've said about this guy, he's totally the type to start getting in your FI's ear about how he's being p***y-whipped. Guys like that can be real a-holes and it wouldn't surprise me if he started trash talking you to his buddy if you dumped him from the wedding party. That will just make things worse. I'm not saying your FI would agree with him or anything (I hope!) but it will just be more drama to deal with in the long run.
I get where you're coming from. I do. This guy sounds like a jerk. But you've talked to your FI, apparently more than once, about your concerns and it's important to him to have Vince standing with him on his wedding day. Think about it in reverse: if you had a really close friend that your FI didn't like, someone who was always there for you, and he went behind your back and kicked her out... if DH had done something like that, we probably wouldn't be married. Yes, Vince isn't being respectful, but you need to respect your FI's decision. Because his GM are his decision.
Just try to stay as far away from Vince until after the wedding.
Thanks everyone. I was thinking of sending out an email to the entire wedding party, asking anyone who can't fully support us to STEP DOWN.
Vince has complained about the cost of the tuxe and other expenses. He also hates the idea of having to help out on our wedding day, with greeting guests or handing out programs or anything. Do you think this email is a good idea to give him a hint and possibly give him a way out?
I am willing to do ANYTHING to get rid of this guy. I really don't want him in our party anymore. My FI's sister also hates Vince... because, I forgot to mention, Vince is married to my FI's cousin. Seemed like a trivial detail, but anyway, it's all factoring in. My FI's sister is aware of Vince's dumb ways because he treats their cousin (his wife) like crap, and the whole family hates him. I spoke to my FI's sister about my situation and she wants to help me get rid of Vince. Sorry if I sound evil, but I am fed up with this guy.
I understand where some of you are coming from, in terms of sympathizing with how much it means to my FI to have Vince in the party, and how he should have a say too. But my FI is clearly blinded by Vince's self-pity and "I'm a victim" attitude. I just feel like I HAVE to do something, or else this guy will be in our party, which I don't want.
If you feel that strongly, you really should talk to your FI and let him know how strongly you feel. It's really his place to be the one to kick any groomsmen out of the wedding party.
Kittyachi nailed it on the head. If you let this get to you, and make a big stink, he will play it up with your FI. Yo def don't want to come across like a bridezilla. While it sounds like you've had this conversation with your FI already, maybe try just calmly explaining your reasons, then leave it in his court.
What if you had a dear friend that your Fi didn't like, would you want him kicking her out if you really wanted her there? I know there could be a lot of variables there. But just something to think about.
And this guy is talking out his ***. So if he won't be part of a limited or cash bar. Just tell him that that's what you'll be having, and really see if he steps down. If he does then your problem is solved. And closer to the wedding you can reinstate the open bar. But I'm not sure he really would turn it down.
Ultimately, I would not send an e-mail like that. Especially if it's behind your FI's back. (And after he told you he wanted to keep this guy as GM.) You said you'd do anything to get rid of him at this point, but I don't believe that's true. You wouldn't be willing to lose your FI, right? I think some of this stuff could cause your FI to get upset with you. (And if he has a friend he's attached to, behind him ready to say, "See how it is?" ...Ugg).
I feel for you. You're in a tough spot. This guy is miserable and screwed up his own life. So he's trying to take others down, in the process. If it was me, I would probably try to talk to FI like, "I'm concerned about his attitude. I'm nervous that he'll chip away at his friends' attitudees toward marriage, and won't be reliable for the wedding." If your previous approach hads been from more of an anger angle, maybe try the concerned/nervous thing instead.
Good luck.
It sucks that your FI isn't wiser to Vince's BS, and still feels sorry for this jerk. But I really, really, really agree with kittyachi and Tanya123. Going behind FI's back and sending that e-mail isn't going to get you what you want, i.e. Vince out of the wedding party. It's going to make him even more determined to stay in the wedding party and keep feeding your FI crap about how much marriage sucks.
You've got more than a year before your wedding. That's more than a year to convince your FI to drop the hammer on Vince. So don't do anything rash -- trying to kick him out without your FI's support is just going to give Vince more power. Be patient. Let Vince keep being a jerk. Every time he says something awful, call him on it, then mention to your fiance later how much it upsets you to think of him standing with you guys at the altar. I have to believe that eventually your FI, like his friend, will see reason and agree to let Vince just come as a guest.
Mr. Bee i right. If anyone kicks Vince out of the wedding party it should be your FI. Is it possible since Vince is the cousin in law that's why he's so hell bent on having him in the party? Honestly I wouldn't want someone with bad "juju" in my wedding party. IT should be about people supporting you on the big day.
Actually, the fact that Vince is family does make a difference. A big one. 20 years ago, my aunt (dad's at the time soon to be SIL) kicked my mom out of her bridal party. Their relationship is still strained. This really makes it a grin-and-bear-it situation... you can't get rid of this guy. He's not just a friend that FI can drop, he's a friend and family member. Going behind FI's back might get Vince out of the wedding, but it's just as likely to make sure that there isn't a wedding.
Sounds like you are just going to have to get over it. He's important to your FI and it looks like he's going to be in your wedding. Your FI has a point that if Vince has been there for him, it's his turn to be there for Vince.
DO NOT send the email to your bridal party. That is beyond rude and a fairly childish way to try and get him to quit. You're just going to have to find a way to live with this guy being in your wedding. Your FI does have a say in certain parts of the wedding, the biggest being who he chooses to have by his side day of.
as both you and your FI have already "repeatedly" asked your groomsman to shut his mouth and negativilty and he stil hasnt - to me, that means hes bought his ticket out of the wedding
can you imagine your wedding day - having to put up with all the snide remarks while youre standing there for photos & suppose to be smiling.
but this has to come from your FI. i suggest every single time Vince makes a comment you look at your FI and point it out, maybe he doest really realize how negaive he is about your wedding
I would not want FI to kick out one of my bridesmaids without getting permission from myself first.
I think you just need to talk to your FI about it more.. sending out a mass email will just create more drama (trust me, I just went through mass email drama with somebody's wedding)
Also, what is important? Don't let Vince consume you. This is something I learned from the wedding mentioned above. Whenever something happens that can make you angry or sad, just remember the important stuff. Does it really matter if you have an annoying guy in the bridal party? Just ignore him. Focus on your FI. From a man's point of view, looks like you are trying to make him chose between his friends and you. I know that isn't what you are trying to do. To you, you are trying to protect your wedding day from a jerk. Just.. don't become the jerk at your own wedding.
If there's one thing I am certain of... it's the fact that Vince will destroy my wedding day with his whining, snide remarks, getting drunk, and p*ss poor attude. He has once thrown up at a wedding because he drank way too much. I do not want him at our wedding party, representing us. Unfortunately, my FI and I got into another argument today about Vince. He said that sicne Vince is part of the family, and that he's also somewhat of a "friend" of mine (or at least, used to be, before he had his shotgun wedding and turned all miserable) that I should just talk to him myelf and tell him straight up that his comments are hurting my feelings.
Sorry to be a b*tch... but I don't even want to talk to this guy anymore. I just want to stay as far away from him as possible as soon as I kick him out. I can't stand negativity and it's driving me crazy that Vince is being so smug and reaping all the benefits of being in our party (FI takes them out all the time and pays for them.) The whole family hates his guts for how he treats his wife, so I don't know, it's not like I'll be causing the family strain. If anything, they are begging me to kick him out and humiliate him. Although I don't want to humiliate Vince, I just want him out of our party for good. It just really sucks that my FI is being so stubborn about this.
Since Vince used to be a "friend" of mine, and we used to be able to talk, would it be okay if I just be the one to kick him out? This kind of person is poisonous and I may not have a right to tell my FI to stop being friends with him, but I certainly have a right to boot him out of our party... right?
Sorry to be so stubborn. Thank you all for your opinions, it is helping me a great deal with how to see things.
sorry but i dont feel you can kick him out, not if your FI is going to stand up for him. if your FI refuses to ask him to step down then i think youre going to have to suck the lemon here and at least keep a "i told you so" for later on.
and unless he does something super bad i cant imaging he would be able to ruin your wedding - hes just one person and your wedding day is bigger than that. oh, i would also suggest to FI that Vince isnt allowed to give a wedding speach.. just in case
Won't he still be at the wedding regardless? And doing all the same whining, drinking, etc. AS WELL as telling anyone who will listen how the "bridezilla" kicked him out of the wedding? I think the best thing you can do is ignore him, since he probably enjoys getting a rise out of you. Let your fiancé deal with him. Good luck!
I know the answer you want is "yes, you can kick him out, even if your fiance says no," but I think if you try to do that, it's going to backfire horribly on you. You need to be honest with yourself about the likely outcome of you calling Vince and telling him he's not a groomsman anymore. Do you really think your FI will suddenly do a 180 and say "oh well, now that you've said Vince is fired as a groomsman, I guess it was all for the best"?
Here's what I'd guess would happen. Your fiance will probably get really mad at you (and honestly, rightfully so -- Vince is a jerk, but he's not worth going behind your fiance's back like that), he'll call Vince and say "I'm sorry about what Amber said, you're family and also one of my best friends, of course you're one of my groomsmen," and Vince will spend the next year telling your FI not to marry you because you're "manipulative" or whatever.
I think you should take your fiance's advice and talk to Vince, preferably with FI in the room. The next time he makes a comment, say exactly what your FI suggested -- that you're friends, you want him to be supportive of your marriage since he's a groomsman, and you'd like it if he knocked it off with the comments. Vince will probably continue being a jerk. Just keep repeating your request, nicely, over and over again. Then in a couple of months, take this back to your fiance and say, "you've heard me ask Vince to knock it off, and he clearly doesn't care about our feelings at all. Can we please revisit the issue of Vince in our wedding party?"
I know you want this guy out, like, yesterday. But unless your fiance's behind it, you can't kick him out without causing massive amounts of drama and driving a major wedge between you and your sweetie. Is that really what you want? I think you're going to have to be patient, take a few deep breaths, and focus on some other things for a while. The Vince situation will work out in time. But if you jump the gun and go behind your fiance's back, it's going to get worse, not better.
I agree with Melissa. Again I don't think you can just kick him out without some ugly repercussions.
I fear your anger about this is keeping you from being objective. So I hope you can take a little time to try to cool down. If you used to be friends with Vince, mayber try having a heart to heart with him. Maybe you can help him too. You know guys. They don't always get deep and emotional. Maybe Vince could use a good talk. After all, he's acting this way because he's unhappy and hurt.
If he does stay in the wedding, maybe you could at least convince your FI to be on board with having him escorted out of the reception if he really behaves as poorly as you think he will.
Thank you, wonderful hive, for talking some real sense into me. I was about to blow up on Vince, and realistically you are all right, it will only make matters worse because Vince wouldn't back down without a fight.
Ellebeaux, I think I WILL ignore him from now on... this would entail that I'll no longer attend gatherings with my FI's guys and their wives/girlfriends.
Eloping, I know Vince can't do anything major to destroy the entire day, but I just don't want him around us on that day. It will put me in a bad mood. I don't want him to sit with us, eat with us, take pictures with us, I don't even want to see his face. He has disrespected us over and over again, and I'm afraid that if he says even one little comment at our wedding, I will blow up on him.
But anyway. Ok. I won't do anything rash. Yet. MellisaB, you're right... I'll build my case in the next few months and see what happens.
Anyway, ladies, how would you HONESTLY feel if you were in my shoes? Imagine one of your FI's demented friends always saying "Good luck, you guys are in for a rude awakening"... "Marriage is like prison".... "You guys could get divorce within six months, make sure you get a pre-nup".... "You guys are wasting your money on this wedding." ... "Having kids will make you poor"..... "Kids will be the death of your life.".............. Seriously, how would any of you feel if you had someone like this in your wedding party?
I'd be pissed, too, but there are lots of people who have said lots of inappropriate things to me as a military wife, like, "oh, all soldiers cheat on their SO's overseas, i bet he's cheating on you right now" and "I could never stay with a guy I wouldn't be able to see all the time, how much it must suck to be you!" and "wow, that's so financially irresponsible to not live with your SO"...stuff like that. Honey I've heard it all about how soldiers are pieces of crap and how stupid I am to be with one. I have coworkers who told me when I was engaged, "you sure you want to be married?" and telling me how things change and I better get out while I still can! Or when I go out for happy hour, "EJS, you knwo you can't do this when you have a kid, right?" They're kinda joking but at the same time they're giving me their insecurities on the matter. My parents told me we were wasting our money, too, and that we *could* get divorced and to be smart. Meh, whatever.
You just have to be better than that. Tell Vince that, "Well, i'm sorry you feel your marriage is that awful but ours won't be like that" or simply, "i'm sorry you feel that way".
Don't let a low-life like Vince get to you. You're letting him win! You shouldn't give a darn about his opinion anyways; it stems from his own miserable self-worth and the fact that he has to bring others down with him. Tell yourself he's such a piece of crap he's not worth even listening to. You getting angry is probably fueling it, too! I bet he just gets a big kick out of it.
But I also know when to pick my battles. This would not be it b/c I would NOT let Vince win and ruin my day. I'd probably also instruct the photographer to not encourage a ton of pictures of him. I think this is something for you to revisit later and let Vince do more damage in the meantime. Let him work his evil magic on your FI and THEN see how FI feels about it.
In a sense, if you give in to the anger over him, you're letting him win power over you. Think about how much power he has to control your emotions, your self-control, your logical reasoning, your rationality, your entire mood for the day even when he's not around. The bigger thing would probably be to just ignore his comments and act like he never said anything, or act like he said something really nice and smile and go, "Thanks for the advice, Vince," or "So it may be, but right now, we're happy. No point in worrying about the future to the point of ruining the present." and move on with the conversation. Or you can pity his misery and pettiness. Let pity soak into your entire attitude towards him so that everyone sees how pitiable he is. Maybe he's acting like such a jerk because he'd prefer everyone be angry at him than to pity him. Whatever the case, it's obvious that he is incredibly unhappy and feels trapped in a miserable situation.
If your FI really won't budge on Vince being a groomsman, then you really should respect that decision. Going behind your FI's back and just doing what you want just tells your FI that you don't care about what he wants as long as you get what you want. That's grounds for a major fight that won't be about Vince, but about what Vince represents in how you, as a couple, deal with disagreements. Considering how much influence Vince already has on your emotions and moods, do you really want Vince to have power over your relationship too? Maybe consider this a test of how you and your FI can deal with difficult things to come and you're determined to pass this with flying colors!
If nothing else, at least take comfort in the fact that your FI is showing how LOYAL he is!! I feel for you, and don't really have anything to add that the ladies haven't already hit upon. If he acts like a jerk on your wedding day, people will realize he is being a jerk, it won't reflect poorly on you.
Hang in there!
Big thumbs up to pendragon. Yes, I'd be really upset with Vince, but you also have to look at it the other way. What if it were a BM? She was your BFF, and you didn't want her out of the bridal party, but your FI did. You told him time and again that you wouldn't take her out, so he went behind your back and did it. That would come off as controlling and it would show that he didn't care about how you felt on the matter, nor did he care about who you considered important. You don't want your FI to feel that way about you.
Amber, please don't go behind your FI's back and kick out Vince...I think that would only backfire on you. However, I do think that you and your FI need to seriously discuss how much it hurts you to have Vince disrespect you and the marriage so much. Maybe if FI realizes how much it hurts you, he could talk to Vince privately about keeping his bad thoughts to himself. Like we've always been told, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all!"
As a guy, I would tell you to go through your FI on this one. You don't want to be labeled the Yoko Ono among your FI friends. Things tend out to work out by themselves for the most part, just be patient even if it seems impossible right now.
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