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Very interesting! Ive never thought about it that way but all of that makes a lot of sense.
Agreed! very interesting. but just because they are considered amateur based on that article doesnt mean they cant be the most talented photographer you have ever seen. Still very intriguing
What is the point of this post? What type of category you categorize photographers into is really just semantics... if you want to call it a profession vs. trade or whatever. Is the point that there are a lot of photographers? true. Or a lot of bad ones who think they're good? also true. I'm just not really sure what point your'e trying to make here? Regardless of anything photography is not a profession/trade/job that is overseen by an agency that would grant these types of name designations and Ken Rockwell is just a guy... so yea. I'm confused.
I guess I don't understand the need for this article? He writes things to get a response, so it isn't that surprising. What is the point?
I also don't understand the point of this post. Everyone knows someone that calls themself a photographer...and shouldn't. But good photography is certainly a highly valued skill. Does it matter if people call it a profession? If the rules for a profession are a degree and some sort of accredidation...there are probably lots of people who call themselves a professional that aren't.
If you use the logic that a profession does not produce a physical item then how could Architecture be considered a profession? Architects certainly do produce a physical item- you would have problems if they did not deliver a blueprint or design during their employment.
Similarly, you are indeed paying for a photographer and a baker’s knowledge. It is rare someone can produce high-quality work without knowledge and experience.
Regardless, as other posters have said, it is all semantics.
“Professionals are paid for what they know, not for what they do or produce.”
I selected and paid my professional photographer for what she knows and also what she produces. She has knowledge of light (natural and artificial), angles, reflection, etc. that I don’t have. That knowledge, and her artistic ability, make her an amazing photographer. I could have hired John Doe from craigslist who decided to call himself a “professional wedding photographer” to make some extra dough, and doesn’t have the knowledge my photog did. I went with her because of her final product – which is directly based on her knowledge of her craft.
IMO, this article make silly distinction. Most professionals are paid for both knowledge and production, I don’t think you can separate the two are easily as the writer believes.
Why does it matter what category a photographer falls into? A photographer is a photographer. Does it matter what the technicalities are?
great article @USER876 good o know I am a Full-Time Career Pro. Can you post the source of the article i would love to read the whole thing. Oh are you a member of DWF? If so you should post it there too :)
Um, I don't get it. The word "professional" has two definitions. As much as I like accurate definitions, I think getting really caught up in what is a profession and what is a trade feels a little bit classist.
Now aday, with digital imaging and easy access to cameras and printers, a lot of people think they are photographers. However, there definitely are professionals out there.
Plus, I am a photographer. A B&W darkroom, college trained, fine art photographer. Photography is a broad term and applies to many different things. There are many skills necessary to be a good photographer.
Ehh, I kind of see the semantics point...kind of.
But the article's main point (that "Professionals are paid for what they know, not for what they do or produce") is inherently contradictory. What a photographer KNOWS about photography (lighting, shutter speed, f-stops, a zillion other things) directly affects what that photographer PRODUCES. So to distinguish between the knowledge and the product is not really possible, or even desirable.
Pointless distinction, in my opinion.
ETA: after reading through the previous posts, I realize others made this exact same point. I agree with you!
Wait, I don't get how the listings at the bottom of the article relate to the article itself. The author goes on and on about how photographers are not professionals, then proceeds to categorize different types of photographers using the word "professional."
Color me confused...
I am a bit conflicted about this article.
I believe that there are photographers out there that can call their work a profession and call themselves professionals. True photographers have a lot of knowledge about lighting, angles, equipment, the industry, history of photographer, photographic styles, and I believe the really good ones are also able to take their clients visions and turn them into a final product. A lot of photographers also go to school for a photography degree, or they go to some type of training, or they intern/shadow other photographers.
I think your view on this article depends on how you view photography overall. Photogrpahy is VERY important to me. I think photography is an art and certain people just have what it takes and I think its worth paying a premium. I knew that I would dedicate a large portion of my wedding budget towards photography before I was even engaged. Photography has always been important to me and I have experiemented with different styles and classes myself so I can appreciate the skill level that it takes. However, I am a hobby photographer, not a professional by any means. :)
That's just my take...
Please don't associate me with this hooey. This article makes zero sense and I don't see how it's helpful to brides at all.
I know i don't like Rockwell for a reason, this might be it.
Mr. Rockwell supposed to be just a guy who reviews cameras, post on his blog about cameras that he owns, and makes money by doing just that! Let's call him a "professional" blogger, shall we? Perhaps, he may disagree!?
How ironic!
You lost me when you said that kindergarten teachers need a master's. Um, bachelor's is more like it. Get your facts straight and learn how to write a convincing, organized article that actually has a purpose.
I agree with a lot of the comments above. It is semantics, and also wrong.
Attorneys, for instance, absolutely get paid for producing things--i.e. LEGAL DOCUMENTS! Try telling a client that a deal they paid for will be immortalized in the attorney's mind rather than in an actual client, or that briefs will be submitted telepathically.
Architects, as someone mentioned above, are another prime example. If you aren't turning over blueprints at the end of the day, then no one will have the benefit of that professional knowledge.
I hate when people write articles trying make a big deal about how "smart" they are to figure out something that they didn't actually figure out.
The article makes zero sense to me as well. I have a four year degree and I can tell you there are photographers who haven't spent any time in a classroom who are amazing. It would be better placed on a photography forum for debate (?), not a forum for brides.
@ITCPhoto: I wouldn't even trust his camera reviews either, let alone, what he defines a professional photographer to be.
Sometimes I think "professional" gets tossed around with photographer so much that it has lost whatever meaning it had. I don't think it is necessary to go further with what was written by Rockwell, but some things, that should have been added at the very top was "attitude" and "conduct."
For whatever reason this article didn't disturb me like it did most of you.
I suppose I should of included the first paragraph of it....
"Satire means I'm going to poke fun of some things. If you lack a sense of humor leave this article now unless you can lighten up and enjoy."
I think the article was a bit opinion, a bit satire, and a bit fact. The point that struck me the most was that with photography, ANYONE can call themself a professional and to me that was an interesting concept. What really does separate a professional from a non professional? You can argue the qualitiy of their work does, but that is subjective.....I've seen people love craigslist photographers work just as much as the top ones in the country.
@USER876 That us exactly how I took the article, esp knowing where it came from. With the downturn of the economy and so many people loosing there "real" jobs there are more and more people picking up a camera and calling themselves pros. I see articles like this more as entertainment rather then being offended by it.
Since lots of people already posted my opinion on the photography profession issue, I just have to rant for a second.
"Even kindergarten teachers usually need at least Masters' degree and a teaching certificate issued by a US state."
First of all, teachers in my state need a BACHELOR'S degree and a certificate. But what bothers me more is the word "even" used here. I am a kindergarten teacher and I can tell you that we DO NOT color all day or "babysit." I have had parents tell me "I couldn't do what you do. God bless you." Spending a day with 25 small children TEACHING them how to read and write and count, while dealing with the countless other issues that come about during the school day is exausting, but REWARDING.
:)
Some states actually require a masters degree over a certain number of years with the continuing education credits I believe. I am not defending his statement, but I think you are missing the point of the whole article.
@USER876: I agree with what almost everyone else has said. Good photographers have knowledge that they use to create the product. I met with my photographer earlier today and I would say without a doubt, he is a professional. Just like anything else, there are talented photographers and also photographers who shouldn't call themselved "professionals." I was simply venting about the teacher statement because its something that really irritates me.
@PizzutiStudios: I guess that's a generous way to take it... and I think the point is valid that holding a camera + basic knowledge of PS does not make you a pro. But the whole "photographers are not professionals" as a blanket statement makes no sense to me.
@CorgiTales I think the author is stating that it is not a profession (not that photographers are not professionals) because by his definition a profession is something that is better benchmarked with qualifications/degrees/certifications,etc. By this same definition he is callig it more a "trade" than a "profession"
@CorgiTales I think the author is stating that it is not a profession (not that photographers are not professionals) because by his definition a profession is something that is better benchmarked with qualifications/degrees/certifications,etc. By this same definition he is callig it more a "trade" than a "profession"
@CorgiTales I think the author is stating that it is not a profession (not that photographers are not professionals) because by his definition a profession is something that is better benchmarked with qualifications/degrees/certifications,etc. By this same definition he is callig it more a "trade" than a "profession"
@CorgiTales I think the author is stating that it is not a profession (not that photographers are not professionals) because by his definition a profession is something that is better benchmarked with qualifications/degrees/certifications,etc. By this same definition he is callig it more a "trade" than a "profession"
Wow. I think the only thing I agree on in that article is that some people claim to be photographers and they are most definitely not. I didn't even make it through the whole article because it was so ridiculous and terribly written. When I was looking for a wedding photographer there were sooo many popping up on an online classifieds site, and some of the pics looked good! My dad is a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER (excuse the caps, but, I just couldn't avoid them here), and I had him go through the list and knock off the ones that he didn't recommend.
Now...some photographers DO go to school. Is it necessary? Mmmm...I would say no, but they would have to have received good training (as a mechanic's son would, etc., etc.) from a PROFESSIONAL that knows what they're doing.
Also...I do not know where you are from, but I know for a fact that both my dad and my wedding photographer are both registered with board(s). I cannot think of the name off-hand, I apologize.
Third...how dare you tell certain people that what they do is not a profession, just because they don't follow along the lines of "traditional" jobs (teacher/doctor/lawyer). That's offensive ad ridiculous.
I wish I could sit down with the writer of this article and give him a piece of my mind! I'm MAD! Being a writer is a profession...you my friend...are not professional. Just like some people are definitely not "professional photographers", you are not even close to being a professional writer.
/rant
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I read an interesting article written by Ken Rockwell. I thought it would be (although much is opinion) a good followup to LB Photography's sticky. Seems like everyone and their brother is calling themself a professional photographer now a days....
Here are a few excerpts from the article......
"Professions are occupations like law and medicine. You don't need board certification or a licence to be a photographer. You don't even need a college degree!
Only some occupations are professions.
I'm defining professional more precisely than getting paid to do something. Your dad paying you to mow the lawn may make you a professional lawn mowerer, but it doesn't make mowing your family's lawn a profession.
A profession is an occupation in which a person is paid for his knowledge. Professionals are paid to profess, or to talk. The word "professional" comes from the same root as "professor." A person engaged in a professional occupation is called a professional.
A professional is paid to provide information. A professional is not paid to produce tangible goods or services.
Professionals are paid for what they know, not for what they do or produce.
Professions almost always require at least a four-year degree and some sort of accreditation by organizations staffed by other than members of that profession. Medical doctors, pilots, CPAs and lawyers are required to pass boards to become certified. Members of these professions are only hired or allowed to practice if they both have the education and certification from third parties. They go to jail if they practice with an expired license.
Landscape architects are professionals paid to design landscape. They don't do landscaping; landscapers do.
CPAs are paid to tell me how much taxes I owe. They don't pay them for me.
Teachers are professionals. Even kindergarten teachers usually need at least Masters' degree and a teaching certificate issued by a US state. Teachers are paid for what knowledge they can impart to others, not to produce anything tangible.
Obviously photography is not a profession. This problem stunts the many bright people who attempt to pursue it as such. The people doing the hiring know this, and pay low because they can. Anyone may call themselves a professional photographer and practice photography.
Trades are occupations in which one is paid to produce something tangible.
Trades deliver, license or produce tangible goods, like clocks or photographs, or perform labor or physical services on your physical assets, like your car or house.
Professions don't require prefacing with "professional." For instance, one doesn't say a "professional banker" or "professional dentist" since people don't do banking or practice medicine as hobbies.
When people do hobbies for money then one prefaces it with "professional," for instance, "professional golfer" or "professional photographer."
Photography is a trade. Photographers are paid to create, deliver, license or sell photographs. Photography requires training and specialized knowledge like other trades, but doesn't require a licence or even a college degree as a profession does.
There are many photography organizations that hand out certifications. These organizations consist of photographers looking out for themselves. Photographers handing out certifications amongst themselves don't count to people who might hire them. If you have to explain what CPP from PPA means to a potential client, it doesn't matter. Anyone can call themselves a photographer.
Full-Time Career Pro
A Full-Time Career Professional Photographer is a person who has been a full-time photographer for his entire career.
He works all day, every day, ever since he graduated college.
These guys buy whatever gear they need, since the cost of gear is trivial compared to how much they use it. If something saves them 5 minutes a day or has a clearer viewfinder to peer through 12 hours a day, it doesn't matter if it costs $8,000. For these guys, even very little things, like AF sensors that don't clutter the viewfinder, are very important.
Full-Time Photographer
A full-time pro works the same as the Full-Time Career Professional Photographer, but failed at some other career and fell back on his hobby to try to make money.
If he hasn't been doing it very long, he may still worry about gear costs since he's not sure how long it will be until he'll get another real job. These worries come from back when he had a real job, and his boss tried to get cheap with the tools. The Career Pro doesn't worry: if a new tool saves him more time over its life than the cost of ownership, it's a no-brainer to buy it.
Professional Photographer
A professional photographer is a photographer who earns 100% of his income from photography.
Amateur Photographer
People who earn less than 50% of their income from photography are amateurs.
People who shoot weddings every single weekend while holding down another job aren't professional photographers. People who sell prints at art fairs, but still have real jobs, are still amateurs.
Different people and organizations will argue over what income percentage defines professional. I won't get into that here, but these numbers vary wildly.
These weekend amateurs typically use the cheapest gear they can. That's OK, and the way to run a part-time business. Rich amateurs will buy any gear they want.
Your homeowners' insurance company probably will define you as a commercial enterprise even if you've sold just one photo, ever. Ask before you make that first print for a friend; you may invalidate all your equipment coverage!
For decades I avoided selling even one print. The jump in my insurance rates would have made the sale of a few prints pointless."