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Thanks for this and I think you're right.
My take on the passionate response to these threads is that it comes from some sort of maternal place. Like, "oh god, I'm so scared for you that you are making a big mistake, I'm trying to help you" or worse, "I'm hoping you don't repeat the mistakes I made". Very well-intentioned, but are never received that way.
I'm not a young bride, nor do I ever post on those threads, but I think this was a worthwhile thing to say :)
@Amaryllis: i would have to agree with you there. we have heard this same point many times, and like the op said, no ones mind is going to be changed so why post it?
@Amaryllis: I wrote it specifically because I saw it happen on multiple threads this week, and there were multiple posters who responded in this way. Threadjacking didn't seem like a fair option, and private messaging seems a bit excessive when it's not just one poster causing a problem. My intention is not to start drama, or call anyone out specifically. But I'd rather see the Hive as a place where, instead of intense moderation, we moderate ourselves by presenting our opposing views in a thought-out manner, and I felt this way the best way to do that.
@clarebrea: Causing a problem? Okay. Most of the times I see these threads, it's usually seeking validation. If not, why ask someone on the net why you should or shouldn't marry at a certain age and why it is or isn't a good idea. IDK, it just seems somehow to ask that and not expect some impassioned kind of answers. If you want input on your decor or bouquet choices, that's one thing. Anything to do with age or abortion or some kinds of politics etc brings out passion. Well, I do post in those threads. I am also one of those that see things that affects me that people are not that sensitive about but I have a high threshold for what affects me or not especially when it's from strangers on the interwebs :)
@bRooklynRocks: I have to agree with you. If you are asking people on an internet board to help you make big life choices, then people are going to state their opinions on the age of the poster.
You know, it's always going to be like this. Younger generations ask for advice, and those of us who have already been there will offer advice, but it will always come off as judgemental to the younger generation. Then when they actually live life and get to the second part of their 20's, they will realize the advice given was mostly right. So then when they are 28 and a 21 year old is asking if she is too young to marry, they will offer their opinion which will probably be basically the same advice they got from older people when they were asking at 21. It's a cycle we will always see. If people were confident with their choice, they wouldn't feel the need to come on the internet and ask if it's okay. I mean, I could see if it were, "Do you think having a colored wedding dress is okay?" or "Do you think not having bridesmaids is okay?"
TRUE!--->Then when they actually live life and get to the second part of their 20's, they will realize the advice given was mostly right.
My post was not meant to refer to the "should I get married" posts - the number of posts that I've noticed this on have not been in reference to validation seeking posts, rather vents about associated problems, like vendors not taking them seriously, parents not being happy about the plans made, etc.
I agree. This behavior has really deterred me from reading the 20 something posts because they usually end up an age debate anyway.
@bRooklynRocks: That's just not fair. Doesn't everyone need validation sometimes? What about the waiting boards who come together to talk about their frustrations and how it is ok to feel the way they do? What about the encore brides who need reassurance that they're just as validated in their desire for a fantastic wedding? What about the older brides who are dealing with their own problems that come with age and potentially negative experience? Obviously there are some threads out there that are directly asking for validation (and even one I've read just today) but usually, we as a 20 something group want help with dealing with our challenges of being a young bride dealing with parents, finances, judgment, and making the best decisions for ourselves possible. Constant bombardment of how we're not ready, not experienced enough, not traveled enough, not secure, not OLD enough, is exhausting and it's isolating a whole group of young women who should be able to come to these boards and be equally respected as a bride, wife, or just person with feelings who sometimes needs a little support.
I think having the boards separated into different age groups is causing all this drama. I am on other wedding boards as well and have never had this topic come up but when you segregate brides according to age of course its going to.
I agree with you that people's relationships shouldn't be judged because of their age. But if people ASK for advice, they can't expect that all that advice will be what they want to hear. There's a difference between compassionate, supportive advice and an echo chamber of empty validation. I think that's what bBrooklynRocks was getting at.
So basically, if someone says, "Which dress do you like the best? Oh and btw I'm 21," commenting on their age is not appropriate. But if they ask "Is 21 too young to get married?" it's okay for people to (respectfully) say that they don't think so.
I think (and I may be wrong) that the OP is pointing out times when people go straight to the age instead of looking at the whole picture. For example: "I don't like the idea of my FI going to strip clubs, I don't trust him" becomes "Maybe you're too young to get married if you can't trust your FI." I've seen this too. Age isn't even an issue in the topic, yet it is immediately picked on. It can sometimes play a contributing role in some issues, but it seems like most times a young bride is just told she's not mature enough to get married, when there may actually be other things going on. It's the dafault answer, when it's not the default problem in all threads a young bride posts.
I don't know. It seems like the younger brides are so quick to announce their age. Like I don't start topics, "SO watches porn and I don't like it. I'm 27"
It's usually topics like "Who pays for the wedding? I'm 21 and in college" where people say the couple might be a little young if they can't pay for the wedding themselves.
I am relatively new and am sticking my neck out here, but I don't see this as any different than any other judgements that are passed. And honestly compared to "real life" there arent that many here. i think people are really sensitive on this board (not a bad or good thing).
People judge based on age (old or young), race, region, budget etc. How many times has open bar been discussed as being wrong, yet if your budget is $1K, how can you afford one? (yes I am guilty of this as well)
Being part of a group will automatically place one in a position of judgement even if some groups are more than others. Sometimes its warranted, sometimes its not. B ut at the end of the day it is what is reality.
In terms of being "young" I am the grand old age of 28 and I argue with my mom all the time that she knows best due to her experience. Its the nature of aging. And you know what? Everytime we argue a few years later I realize, mom was right. She did have the experience to know better. At the time, however, I was bitter and obstreperous. I didnt care what she had to say.
@Beluga: I agree with that. I just feel that most of the time, the issue is not the girl's age, but that's what the conversation devolves to. As I did mention, there are some that are asking for direct age validation and of course people will respond to those accordingly. My point was more along the lines of MightySapphire.
The issue is not so much about age but about maturity. Certainly plenty of the 20 somethings are mature and do not have so much drama or questionable marriages.
On the other hand, I wish more women would post on the 40 something boards!
@MightySapphire: Yes, exactly, thanks!
I really hate pointing out individual posts, because I do feel that is unnecessarily dramatic. But I am not talking about the "Am I Too Young to Get Married?" posts.
I get that we all face judgment. @lefeymw: is right, you're going to face it regardless of what group you're in. But if it's becoming noticeably directed towards one group, then I hope someone pointing it out might cause the posters in question to reconsider the assumptions they've made before even reading the posts of others.
Man, this is something only a 21-year-old would write.
Kidding! Kidding!
I can agree that ageism is a problem when the question doesn't directly have to do with age--ie, "FI wants to see strippers and I don't want him to" or "Should we buy a house?" But you also have to understand that as Miss Tattoo points out, if the OP brings up age from the get-go, ie, "Should we buy a house--I'm 19," then you've (perhaps inadvertently) made it part of the disussion because it looks like you are asking people to consider your question in relation to age.
And then there are the questions that DO seek advice related to age: "I'm 21--should I get married?" or "Too young to get engaged?" In such situations, how in the world could strangers on the Internet ever advise someone of such a decision WITHOUT resorting to statistics and their own life experiences? What else are we supposed to do? We don't know each-other. So we apply a general opinion, which is for most of us based on life-experience, that MOST people in their early 20s don't have much of a career yet and haven't had a whole lot of life-experience. And we also cite statistics because again--what else do we have? It's not an opinion that's raised specifically to insult the poster or to be insensitive towards an entire age-group. And in the vast majority of cases that I've seen, the people who have the perspective that 20-year-olds lack life experience or could use more work experience or whatever are voicing it appropriately.
At the end of the day, this is a public message board. We come from all different walks of life and advice will come in all forms, based on all kinds of preexisting assumptions and ideals. If someone is being outright disrespecful or unreasonable, then that's one thing. But to some extent, you have to overlook people's assumptions. If someone suggests that you don't have "life experience" and you feel that you do or if someone bases their advice on the assumption that you don't support yourself financially when you have a glowing career, then you can either point their error out to them, or determine their advice isn't useful for your situation and ignore it. Most of the time, I recommend the second option.
@JennyW1: Well stated!!!
I would consider myself a young bride (married at 23, turned 24 right after) but I dont ever get offended by any post regarding judgment of age. Even though Im not as young as some of the young brides, I have gotten my fair share of "youre too young" and "dont do it" comments. However, they really never bother me.
I think the best thing is to just remember that every person has a difference in opinion on marrying young and will respond differently to posts regarding or not-regarding age. And you have to respect their opinion, take it or leave it and move on. Whats important is whether you and your fiance/boyfriend/husband are happy and healthy in your relationship and have a support system that you can rely on. That goes for any age. People are going to have something to say about everything, but you cant get offended every time - especially when they dont mean for anything to be taken personally!
@clarebrea: I admire the elegance in which you wrote this, and must say that I could not have stated this any better. Your writing is unbiased and from a factual view point of both sides of the "great debate." Other may disagree with me, and that's fine, but I think this post was far from unnecessary. In fact, it's the first post that I have read that hasn't taken a clear position on marrying young. Thank you for your courage in posting and please don't let any other posters discourage you ever!
IMO, @clarebrea is trying to make this site a happier and less judgemental place for young brides. That's fine and I understand why she would do this. But I think it's stretching a little to say she's 'only' talking about threads where the OP doesn't bring up age at all then gets attacked for being young. I think the issue is a little bigger than that, she's mad that in general people on the hive do not approve of young engagements and aren't afriad to say it. Let's call a spade a spade.
Honestly, I'm not a fan of young engagements for my own personal reasons. But I do my best to either avoid a thread where I"m going to totally disagree OR be respectful with my response. I know I'm allowed to disagree, but I don't let that give me the right to be snarky and know-it-all about it. I think it's twofold, as long as the OP's embrace the fact that for good reasons a lot of people will not support their decisions to get married so young AND us older bee's 'respectfully disagree' wiht our responses and don't get snarky then that's fair and no one should complain. That's what this site is all about!
@MrsWrangler: I don't know why you think I'm being unfair. I know my stance when it comes to marriage and age. Anyhow, leaving that aside, if a young bride needs anything on the board, anything at all, as long as it doesn't have to do with age (as in, I agree with her that getting married in her early 20's is a good idea especially someone I don't know so I'm looking at it statistically), I will help her out. The only time I ever mention age is when it becomes a cause for concern i.e., her parents want her to wait, her BF is not ready (financially/educationally/career wise), stuff like that, then I'd tell her WHY I think her parents are fearful or why she might want to wait for her FI (trust me I am in my 30's and I waited, NOT FUN at all).
I do however know what MightyS was talking about. I've seen some posts about young brides making comments and the next thing I read "Oh, you are so young, that's why you can't spell" That always cracks me up! Anyhow, keep on keeping on. If you are ready, you are ready and there is nothing ANYONE on here is going to do to change your mind especially when it comes to a life altering decision (mind, this is only when a thread has to do with getting married young). BTW, I wouldn't put asking questions about bouquets or dresses on the same level as asking if one is too young to marry. Sorry for the dessertation :)
@bRooklynRocks: Love your reference to 30 Rock!
@lefeymw: I couldn't agree with you more. I feel like the boards are coming so overly sensitive that we can't post our opinions about anything anymore without someone being offended. Everyone is going to be judged b/c opinions are always so different. If you're posting on the interweb (teehee), then you need to be able to handle the good and the bad of a post. Not everyone is going to validate you, and if you announce your age, it's likely that someone might attack it and use it as the reasoning behind your problems.
Just like with other snarky posts, let that roll off your back. You don't always need to respond to those posters or get uber offended by them. If they're using your age as a reason why you have your issues, then they likely aren't understanding your issue to begin with. And if they're not willing to take the time, then why waste your time on them?
Sorry to be blunt but This is an internet forum and people should be free to voice their opinions. If you dont want to hear opinions then dont ask questions on here.
@2PeasinaPod: I used to word 'interwebz' yesterday. My friend looked at me like I was crazy :) Anyhow, I do get what the OP is trying to say though. It's hard to not take things personally I guess.... I try not to though. I don't know these people from Adam so the barrage of negativity won't bother me.
yes, young brides have it hard sometimes and I see where the OP is coming from cause it seems that it's more acceptable to voice opinions on it. But the way I see it so do plus sized, low budget, brides of color, etc. And dont even think about being 35 or older and not at least being engaged, woo lordy.
Yes, people tend to think young people are dumb, who care tho? Im a young bride myself and it's like whateves to me. I think we would benefit from not being so reactionary and seemingly defensive.
@Amaryllis: Quite actually, in my opinion, comments such as that which you have made are the ones that start drama. Let's give credit where credit is due. The original poster by no means bashed anyones' ideas on the subject. Instead, she simply addressed posts regarding young brides and how others who may not understand this concept should react to posts by young brides.
In my opinion, it doesn't matter whether you're young or old, you're still going to make mistakes and your likes, dislikes and qualities of your personality will always evolve. There's no definite span of a marriage at any age. Those who succeed in love and marriage are those willing to give and take equally and put forth effort regardless of changes they may or may not endure.
To me 21 isn't "too young to get married" it's just REALLY young in general. I think many older girls disagree with young engagements because they know how much they changed and grew from 20-30. And doesn't 30 seem really old when you are 21? When I was that age I though 30 year olds were too old to be in bars. lol.
I kept an open mind while reading! :) Very nicely worded post, btw!
I haven't seen people respond with 'you don't trust your guy because you're so young' but only because I haven't been here long. I'm sure it happens, though. I have responded to posts when they have mentioned age if they say that they are both in school and got engaged and their parents don't seem happy and they can't figure out why or something. Or of course, if they ask if its smart to get engaged at 19 or something. I think that the latter is obvious. The first type however, seems to be the one that people are concerned with.
To be honest, if you've posted something like that I think it would be a huge disservice to NOT mention that perhaps the parents are upset because they feel the poster IS too young or that they feel that young marriages are risky. Sometimes parents are just pita's but sometimes they know us really well and especially can gage what we're ready for. To just offer validation to a poster in that situation is to not trust that they can handle hearing what their folks might be thinking.
See, the problem is, too that it's a no win situation on either side. To the person pointing out the statistics on young marriages or any other valid points such as if the poster has never paid rent in their lives, never paid car insurance, health insurance, never had a real job - actual valid points - they are being helpful. But if the OP attacks that advice by saying that they don't care about the stats or if they've had any relevant experience taking care of themselves because they are confident in their love or whatnot - then it really seems like exactly what a young person would say/do -ignore advice or serious issues brought to their attention and complain about being unfairly judged. To the person posting to them, they feel like their point has probably been proven and just like we ALL did - a 20 or 21 year old 'knows best'.
But to the OP of the post, they DO know best. Perhaps their age won't be a factor at all and they are mature and able to take on marriage and do great. And maybe they do know themselves enough to know that and their parents don't know squat. Now they feel like they are attacked because of their age and that no one understands and the person that posted to them to consider their age feels that the OP is just young and won't listen anyway. It's really a no win situation for anyone. Judgements happen, it's true. But if we ALL keep an open mind when we post on a public forum then maybe we can avoid this catch 22. If someone mentions your age don't immediatley think you're being attacked. Look at the information being given to you. Is it valid? Was it given in a helpful manner? Use what's helpful for you and just ignore the rest.
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There has been an influx of young bride posts again on the Hive. I am a regular poster but feel going anon is better for this post. Some of these topics and questions have been specifically asking for advice, but others have been vents where people have felt interjecting their opinion on young marriage stats, their own young marriages and the like need, to be relayed.
So, from a 21 year old engaged bride to the Hive:
I don't speak for everyone. There are people on here that truly are not ready to get married. And when they ask a question like that, please help them through it with your wisdom. But don't stop at "young" as the reasoning. Go a little deeper and point out the specifics of the situation. While most of us are secure enough in our relationships not to care what others think, it gets a little tiring having to avoid entire posts because you're sick of seeing viewpoints that consistently relay how the original poster was at that age, or how they think all young people are, but act as if there's a minimal chance a young couple supports themselves.
From interacting with posters on the board, I can tell you that quite a few of our young brides-to-be support themselves. The ones that don't often still made the decision to wait until they were done with school and had jobs. Many more have been dating for a long time, living together, and are in stable relationships with their significant others. I often see that these posters don't like to bring up their age again and again, or post in the young bride threads.
I know that your mind, if it is made up, won't change from this post. And I don't expect it to, because the stats are true, and many young brides will get divorced. But I hope you all will stop to think about the posters who are responsible individuals in committed relationships. They are not you when you were that age, they are themselves. They'll make mistakes, some similar to ones you made, and some completely different. This is a PSA to stop and think a minute before you post something about "life experiences" - are you really listening to what the original poster said, or are you working off assumptions? If you have questions, ask them before making those assumptions.
And please, when you're writing your responses consider that while most of us don't ask for validation from the Hive regarding our relationships, it's never fun for someone to see their age group cut down again and again.
Thanks for reading.