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Happy New Year to the wonderful and supportive bees in the hive!
I come to thee for advice once again. I've posted about the waiting part, the e-ring part, and now this is so much more serious an issue that those things seem so shallow. I NOW HAVE SERIOUS THOUGHTS ABOUT NOT GETTING MARRIED AT ALL. Quick background: dated on/off since highschool and 8 years this month (but really, just over one year of rock steady, healthy relationship), engaged right before his sister's wedding this summer.
Now prepare yourself for my supposedly indepth summary of our woes -_- (And yes, we WILL be going for counselling, now to see if we can salvage anything or just call it quits and how to recover from this).
I've always had a niggling doubt that maybe FI (I'll still call him that cuz we're still trying to figure this out) was not "the" one because of our crazy different personalities. (And the fact that my gut instinct tells me that if I don't get over our issues, the D word will surface its ugly head down the line despite kiddies and everything -_-). I, a more outgoing, adventurous, singing and dancing, much more verbose and emotional/dramatic type (and already established financially); him, the introverted, not a lot of friends, veeeeeeery quiet, low self-confidence, definitely not the singing and dancing type, and also finds it hard to express himself (seriously lacking in communication skills). We don't have a really good conversation history, and I'm more apt just to say, "stop talking now honey" than let him blather on ever so slowly about some really boring thing (this is a consensus, not just my perception). Not much intellectual stimulation, he's a bit slow on thought processes and speech, and he can't keep up with me at all. Also, still in school with quite a lot of debt. Parents refuse to help him out financially with school (they did for his first three yrs of eng'g which he hated so he dropped out), so I try to support him financially with this new program (which I don't resent...yet). And for a mini-vent, he's awful at picking out presents (if he gives any at all, like this past christmas he tried to compensate by spending all his time with me, which I understand because the poor boy does nothing else but school and work, BUT then randomly paid for a $100+ sushi dinner for 4 ppl, including us, on NYE. That got me mad.) When I asked him what he was planning to get me when he gets his next paycheque (he very well knows I honestly think he'll splurge on me like I do on him if he had the money so I don't expect sparklies at this point), he said he was gonna get me a swimming cap. OK. Now, I am the EASIEST person to pick presents for because I go googly-eyed AND actually say what sorta things I like! Bottom line is, I don't think he picks things up very well and sometimes I find myself thinking he's not thoughtful and romantic enough for me (and all of my exes were the serenading me under the moonlight type, spontaneous, fun and musical like crazy; just not the marriageable type for other reasons). And then I can't help comparing that I gave him front row seats to a musical for xmas (cuz he likes theatre), and a 3K+ vacation for his bday. Which I hate doing (the comparing). Sigh. I also got over the "guy must pay for engagement ring" idea and sucked it up and now am paying for my "dream" ring that's being custom-made (and will be a huge and sad problem if our relationship dissolves).
Quite a few times I've found myself bored when I think about what we do together (sit in front of the tv, or me planning something - never him; my fault cuz I'm picky)- and I get restless and nitpick and whine and complain (I'm just not a homebody! I'm the type who jumps off planes and bridges, go caving, etc). He doesn't really have hobbies/interests aside from keeping me company. He doesn't really make an effort to have dates with me (even a pizza pizza lunch date), which I find tiring because as much of a type A person I am, it's nice to take a seat back and let him plan something for once. We didn't really have that fiery start (more like a slow burn - didn't really realize I loved him until the second year in), and I've found myself so easily tempted by other guys with personalities (and culture) similar to mine, and when we were on our "off" times, I'd date other guys. Funny thing is, he always waited for me to come back, and I do.
What do I love about him? Well, he is tireless in "serving" me, but like I tell him, I want a boyfriend, not a nanny! I do like the energy though, and it's sweet that he fixes my work lunch for me while I shower. His quiet and stable personality is nice and calming and balances me out when I'm a-buzz with stress and anxiety. His ability to forgive me time and time again when I go astray (break up with him because I was unhappy and bored yet again). He does say that he overcompensates (24/7 massages, anyone?) for the things he knows he can't provide (easygoing, spontaneous fun) and I in turn want more of this hoping that it will fill the void that he just can't seem to fill.
Obviously there's other things I can't quite describe, but in our reality, everybody thinks we have it good and I'm just a spoiled brat. We look good on paper. Especially because my culture deems his culture very desirable. Yes, I want good-looking kids (halfies are adorable), but maybe there's more to married life, no??? Like the fact that for some reason I always find myself wondering if there is another guy out there who will make me laugh and have conversations initiated by both parties (he's really corny and have juvenile jokes, if he tries at all). And the fact that maybe we're just so used to each other's company that we're getting married for convenience. And I'm still mothering him (have you brushed your teeth yet? Why didn't you wash your hair? Grr, guys. Hygiene is KEY to a woman's heart!!! Well, one key anyway.)
Last year (2010), I stopped being bitchy and finally decided to shove my "high standards" down the bottom drawer and started being more attentive to him, and more encouraging, and generally just being "more". And I loved it. He responded beautifully, got more confident in himself, our fights/disagreements are resolved in healthier ways, we genuinely loved being with each other. I still get bored but that's just me, but hey, if a really cute guy (he's handsome and I would love many many babies with him) who thinks you are the most gorgeous and sexy woman alive, faithful and loyal to the max, who COOKS AND CLEANS, and is finally spiritually aware (that was one of our big issues, now it's not, thank God literally), whose family loves and adores you, and is pretty much accepted as a son to my parents...and most importantly, willing to forgive you for all the crap you've put him through (issues of MY unfaithfulness to him), and to work on our issues, you better say yes when he asks you to marry him. Right?
I honestly thought we could get over the issues, both serious AND trivial. I thought that a promise from him to work hard on his communication skills year after year (he becomes a robot and not say anything and would wait til I calm down, but leaves the subject untouched) was enough, but I have been waiting and he's a bit glacial and static in terms of change. I think I could wait until next year when he'll finally be done school and hopefully get a stable job that would get him at least 2/3 of what I get (better-paying job = more family time), but I have insecurities that he's not aggressive enough to find the best possible job for him. We're in our mid-twenties and I've always thought that I'd be married and have three babies last year (I wanted to be a young mum). He says he'll try to be more spontaneous, more fun, more this, more that...but in my heart I know it's wrong to change people. He, on the other hand, loves that I'm "bossy". And that I make him want to be a better person (like I said, he has a negative self-image of himself). It just tires me out, and I don't know if I can handle it without running off to another guy just to chill out. A mentor of mine said that although we both have put so much work on our relationship and have gone through many experiences together in a very long period of time, she'd rather go to a wedding knowing that we are both happy and content with each other. And that I shouldnt have to work THIS hard to achieve not even therapeutic levels of happiness. As for the different kinds of love? He loves me "Agape" style (unconditional), and I think I do too, and we have the friend kind (philia was it?), but lacking in the eros and the other one~ (Side note: we have absolutely zero problem in the bed dept; actually, our relationship was more physical in the first few years; we decided to stop having sex three months ago for spiritual reasons and knowing that we'll have amazing sex minus the guilt in marriage). We know have a lot of time to think about other things, ha ha. Like, getting to know each other. Ours is an odd relationship :p
The past few weeks I got to suspecting that neither of us are ready for marriage. And me realizing that if I met him now, without knowing him or having the history I have with him, I wouldn't even date him! (Someone say major red flag!) That maybe we're engaged because that's what everybody expects of us because we've stayed with each other for soo long, and maybe we are both secretly hoping that marriage will magically change things for the better. WRONG! I was sooo ready to get married and start having kids LAST YEAR. So now, the engagement is on hold (I am now unwilling to plan a wedding being shouldered by me alone, especially with all these doubts). And we're waiting to get counselling from our church. And I will be stuck with my dream ring (not my dream rock, but what the heck). I'm in a limbo before I have to make a very life-altering decision of either staying with him and risk getting those unhappy moments and risk being an unfaithful wife and/or divorce (because I don't think he's ever changing into my revised "ideal" man, not really), or bid a painful goodbye to this 8-year mostly-good, possibly "the one that got away" relationship with a truly awesome man that was just not for me and I for him. My heart shut down already (hello numbness my old friend) cuz it knows what hurt it will have to endure once I choose this road. Will possibly move countries.
Yes, that was eyes-glazed-over-she-has-too-much-time-on-her-hands long, but if you were bored to death or had downtime and maybe have a degree in psychology (I kid), I hope you have something to say - because at this point, I will accept all forms of advice, criticism, support, maybe not disses -_-, ...because I love you all and there is collective wisdom in this hive.
Halp? *Cue cute cat picture so people's irritation due to the length of this post will disappear*
First of all, have to be honest and say I didn't read your entire post. Forgive me if I've missed anything.
What is clear from what I did read is that you are not ready to get married. Financially, emotionally, mentally, etc, YOU are not ready to commit your life to this person. Good thing you recognize this now.
So glad to hear you are seeking counseling. Counseling individually and as a couple, in my opinion, is a good thing. You might have some clarity on whether or not your standards are unrealistic (I don't think some of them are unrealistic... you just know some of the things you want in a SO). I think it's a great idea to SLOW EVERYTHING DOWN until you sort out what you want.
Lastly, need to assess if you had these doubts before becoming engaged. If you did, you may want to figure out why it is you said yes. Perhaps there is something worth saving, or perhaps you just felt like it was the next step. Check out Conscious-Transitions.com too, as there are some great articles about the things you mention above.
Best wishes!
If you read someone else's post that looked and sounded similar to yours, what would you say? It is true that not everything is perfect all the time. Ups and downs are normal, but IMO you sound like you have every reason to take a step back and reevaluate whether you truly want to make a lifelong commitment to this person as he is now....because people are who they are and it's important that you accept him on the condition that it isn't very likely that he will change.
You sound like you hate him and you are totally annoyed by him. And just like some of the others I didnt read this all because it just got so whiny in the middle. Having a good time together makes a relationship easy, love is neccessary in order for it to be worth it, but the most important is the "LIKE" piece and honey you don't like him.
Aside from all the negative things you had to say about him in your post (and there were a lot), my past experience with a long term (7 year) on-again-off-again relationship is that there was a good reason we were on-again-off-again. Deep down, we weren't right for each other. Frankly, from what you wrote, it sounds like you and your SO aren't, either.
I hope the counseling helps you find out what will be best for both of you.
I agree with mwitter80--you sound like you hate this guy! You say you don't want to "risk being an unfaithful wife"? Don't enter into a lifetime commitment with someone if you are already worried you can't be faithful.
Sometimes you date a great guy who just isn't great for you. Move on and let him do the same.
And I actually do have a degree in psychology :)
I think you already know the answer. Sure, it's not easy to let go of something you've invested so much time and energy into, but better to get out now than later after finances and kids are involved.
You owe it to yourself and to this guy to be happy.
If you are worried NOW about all these things, and being unfaithful, things will only get worse down the road, unfortunately. :( How will you make it through the rest of your life, tough situations, parents getting old/sick, financial trouble, etc.. this should be the easy part. Sorry we're all not super encouraging, but I think you need to seriously reconsider.
Your FI sounds like a really great guy despite all the negative things you said about him. It doesn't even sound like you are in love with him but rather you are with him because you are used to it. There's that saying that opposites attract, but I think you two are just too different to be a good match. I have a feeling you will always be bored with him and always will be looking for the greener grass on the other side. You two are not ready for marriage, but at least even you realize that. You sound like my FMIL and he sounds like my FFIL. They're going through a divorce right now. FMIL said she had been considering it very many years but waited until her kids were all grown to even say anything. Now she is bitter and her mind is set. No amount of counseling will change her mind. Her main complaint is that she always wanted to do more social things like go out for dinner dates, and travel, try different activities. FFIL is a homebody and doesn't like doing much outside of the home. You can't change people, no matter how much you try. Even if you tried to change your own wants and dreams to settle for his you will not be able to change yourself and you will grow to resent him. My advise is to call it off. Not take another break, just move on. You will find the guy you are looking for who is more like you or closer to a middle ground.
I did read the whole post and I strongly think you need to leave. It really does sound like you think you are better than him and I bet that his negative feelings towards himself probably aren't being helped by your feelings towards him. I don't think that anything you said about him is necessarily a bad trait, it's just not something that you want in a partner.I think it's time to do both of you a favour and leave. You need to be in a relationship where you are happy and don't have temptations to be with other people. And he needs to be with somebody who loves him for him and is accepting of his personality. I don't think it would be good for either of you to continue in this relationship and while it would be really hard to end such a long term relationship, I think it would be best for both of you in the long run to finally have a chance to be really happy.
Good luck.
I agree with the others. It doesn't sound good to me. I think you already know he isn't for you. I don't hear you saying you are totally in love with him or that you even like being with him.
Even when you attempt to compliment him, it's followed by a put down. All I get from this is that you don't like him, think he's boring and stupid.
I agree with the previous pps.
You need to end it and let him find someone who will love and appreciate him for who he is.
Best of luck.
@msseahorse: i am guessing you are Asian and he is white?
THAT IS NOT A GOOD REASON TO MARRY HIM!!!!!
ugh. i get so sick of the 'white boys are so great and i want my children to be half white' that soo many minority girls have. i know so many chicks who are with a guy who is not half as good as them, but they are attracted to the idea that their kids will be half white. anyway, I might be reading too much into this post but the below statement really got to me.
'We look good on paper. Especially because my culture deems his culture very desirable. Yes, I want good-looking kids (halfies are adorable), but maybe there's more to married life, no???'
I read that whole post. And I completely agree with all PP. You need to leave this relationship. I could never imagine having so many negative things to say about a person I'm preparing to marry. Relationships shouldn't be like that. And as another poster said, the reason you have been on again off again is because you aren't right for eachother. Its hard to leave a relationship you've been in so long but I think it would be best for both of you.
Oh my, people actually replied. I knew I could count on you bees. Whew.
@SnugglesKD: Haha no worries on not reading the whole post! I kind of just let it all rip, cuz why the heck not, this might be one of the most important decisions I have to make in this decade. Thanks for the advice though!
@mstomrsbee: For all those years we've been together, I've tried to accept him as who he was at that point (as a highschool student, as a univ student, as a person who dropped out then went back to school, etc etc). I've found myself in all frames of mind, tried different strategies (changed my mind, my attitude, etc) and because we had a really great year last year, I thought that I could just keep it up, you know? I KNOW the essential part of him that makes him "him" won't change, and I've known that for a while now.
@mwitter80: Ouch! but I needed that. Honestly, this guy doesn't set any boundaries (really? you don't mind an open relationship just so's you can keep me?) and the little pet peeves just build up over time and I do have those times where I don't like him, and sometimes even embarassed of him (gah I'm trying to be brutally honest with myself here, I used to just rationalize it all away). He actually enables my "whininess" because he likes that he's there for that. Does that even make sense? It's not like I don't like him ALL the time, and I do love the guy. In no way did I ever hate him, and am actually fond of him. I did say yes to him >_<
@misslene: What are the chances there WILL be someone like you? Psych101 on myself didn't work so well :p We have done the breaking up thing, many times, and I've tried to move on and encouraged him to do the same. I seriously keep telling him that out there in the big overpopulated world is the perfect wifey for you who will LOVE everything about you and not make you do all these things that your naggy girlfriend wants you to do! Nope, he says I'm it. The unfaithfulness is huge for me though, and I realize it is a giant red flag in front of my eyeballs.
@Bubu82: I know, we've been working on our differences for a long time, but I feel it's not going anywhere fast. Suddenly, it's been 8 years and I'm engaged to be married to this guy. Hold up! Actually, this whole thinking process got rolling because of a convo I had with a coworker (similar personality to mine) who also dated a nice guy who was very different from her. They broke up because she couldn't get over it. I think I just get scared because I don't know how I'll cope if it does happen. Getting all teary-eyed just thinking about it.
@GeorgiaTeacup: It's so hard for me to keep telling him that there have been times that I have been unhappy in this relationship (we have an honesty policy), but I feel like a selfish bitch because he says he's always been happy with me, even at my worst! Not to mention if we fight, and he looks sad or something, everybody automatically blames me. And I keep telling myself to just suck it up and change your attitude girl! Which I had. Over and over again. I do try to be content and grateful to what we both can bring to the table. But again that sinking suspicion that we're better suited as friends than life partners keeps popping up to the surface. I will break both our hearts, and his especially, as I am his first and only girlfriend.
@MissBoston: Yeah, this long-winded post and subsequent long-winded replies is an attempt to reconsider all the options. It just flat-out scares the heck out of me and I don't know if I'm strong/brave enough to do what needs to be done. At this point we have agreed that the wedding is off. It has to be said though that he HAS been through most, if not all, of my darkest, most painful moments in life, and this is a HUGE factor why I'm still with him, having weathered those together. Gah I'm falling apart already nooooo.
@beebeebuzzbuzz: Aww man. You're really good at this therapeutic communication business by saying back what I meant to say (except in less words! haha). And the story you mentioned is the very thing I want to avoid. At one point I got so scared of divorce that I didn't want to get married at ALL (this was pre-engagement). I know that he's OK being himself, and that I'm ok being myself, but maybe we're not the best match out there. Ah romantic futility sucks. :(
@summerbride12: Oh summerbride, I loathe how I have those feelings of superiority! I've tried to combat them by trying to encourage him to do better at everything - in school, at work, etc. I compliment him more, trying to find out and admiring his good qualities, etc etc. I stop myself from making rude, careless remarks that are hurtful, I've stopped whining too much (thus whining on the boards instead), stopped trying to manipulate him and basically just let him grow on his own pace.
@Jenn23: Is it odd when I say that although sometimes I don't like him (which has been considerably lessened as time went on), I do truly love him? Not the eros, romantic type, but more the philia (friendship) and agape (unconditional) type? And he does the same for me. It's just the work that we put into this relationship might be a tad too much if we're just banging our heads over and over again to no avail. There is a difference though of knowing what to do, and actually doing it.
@BanditGirl: Hello, I'm a fan of yours during that blonde johnny depp debacle, fyi, lol. I'm mostly focusing on the bad aspects, so that I can get feedback on those, whether they are just trivial to most people or something I should maybe put on the "non-negotiable things I want in a partner" list. We have fun too, just not as much as I'd like.
@kybride: thanks. :) I need all the luck I can get. Now to get me some courage to do it.
@hellorebecca: You guessed right! But him being handsome is just a bonus (Ahh all my exes were NOT cute). We're both immigrants living in a very culturally-diverse city so we don't even turn heads, and we met here during physics class! (I get mad when people, who tend to put my culture down, think I'm a freakin' mail-order bride). I included it because of the external pressure I get because of that, which is a bit ridiculous. For example, I'd confess that I'm not happy with him because of x reason, and they'd just go, but he's so nice! And so handsome! -_- Seriously. And one of my friends said outright that they just want cute babies for me. Weh?? Sarcasm doesn't translate well on the interweb :/ But no, that was NOT the reason I was marrying him, no worries :)
@PuntaCanaBride: Could it also be that I'm just overly critical? Well yes, because I felt that the time to look at all these issues is now rather than later. Still sucks to finally conclude this relationship which took a lot of time and effort just to say, so long and thanks for all the fish! (reference to the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy, and a pun because we both love sushi -_-).
Now, what's a good way to do this, exactly? Because the last time we attempted to break up, I got into a major (although not clinically diagnosed) depression that had me lying on the couch all day with the tv on, feeling numb for days, and had bouts of bawling my eyes out throughout the day, and was generally so ineffective that we had to get back together so I can actually finish school (Horrible, I know). I'm sorry to be such a downer guys, but I am feeling down. A major source of my support is gonna be gone, and I know I'll grieve it for years. I'll miss the shoulder I used to cry on for YEARS. Hello, five stages of grief. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khm2_l9o-98
@msseahorse: So proud of you for coming to terms with the situation and recognizing where your own faults lie. I think that alone is a gigantic step in the right direction, both for your FI and for you.
And, as someone who has recently gone through a major life change (called off engagement, moving out, starting fresh, etc), I can tell you that while it is HARD, it is the best thing you can do for yourself. Take some time to get to know yourself apart from the relationship. I will assure you that it will get better. I can also guess that your FI doesn't want to marry someone who doesn't think he's the cat's meow. So, give yourselves time to process it. Cry all you need to. Re-connect with friends and family. Find a new hobby. Travel. And fall apart if you need to.
Best wishes.
Remind yourself of all the reasons you are doing this. You're doing him a favor and it'll be best in the long run. Just keep repeating it to yourself.
Honey, I don't think he is the ONLY one with the low self-esteem issue. I think you have just the same issue. You keep getting back together with him after things do not work out for you. You got back together for just the reason of finishing school! And then also wanting to be with him because he looks good on paper. And also because your family treats him like a son. (Of course they will, since your culture would like that you marry 'up'.) And deep down inside, you feel a need to impress your family and make them proud. Isn't that so, missy!!?
I don't think breaking up is a solution just because your personalities are so different. Counseling is definitely a good plan. Who knows, he might take it more seriously if he sees it through the eyes of a [neutral] person who is also a professional at combating relationship challenges. He may be more inclined to take their advice seriously on how to court you. He doesn't have to change himself completely and becoming an outgoing person. He just needs to work on the relationship he has with you. And do certain activities with you or for you. (And vice-versa).
Time is key. Give it as much time as you feel comfortable with. (Don't forget though, your biological clock is ticking!) But you still need to give this time so that before you even get married, you can see him standing up on his own two feet with a decent job, his debt ratio declining, his self-esteem rising. (Part of low self-esteem is probably because of not having a job he wants and being dragged down by debt.)
And more importantly, don't give him 3k vacations as a b'day present. I know you want to and can afford to. But he doesn't feel good accepting this. He is not going to tell you that because you want the vacation too. Given his personality, he much rather have that 3k to pay down his debt. Take vacations together and put money together for it. If he tells you that he got nothing to spare, that's when you need to have a chat and let him know that you two need to take time off to rejuvinate, etc. and how important it is to you that you guys 'getaway'.
(I think my post length is quite competitive to yours!) 
@msseahorse: To do this, you have to suck it up and make a commitment to do it. Just like with anything else, it's not easy, but you have to focus on the goal (getting yourself out of a bad relationship), not the process. Of course you were depressed - it's very hard, and biologically taxing to come out of a committed relationship and nearly everyone goes through what you describe. That's not a reason to get back together with him. Suck it up and break it off - then deal with the consequences.
FWIW: After I was in a major depression from a breakup, I started therapy. I felt terrible. The therapist scheduled an appointment for me with a psychiatrist so we could decide if I should go on anti-depressants. The psychiatrist said with break-ups like this, your brain chemistry is severly altered for about 12 weeks, then the clouds tend to clear. He said, "Why don't you give it 12 weeks, and if you still feel terrible, come back and we can put you on drugs then" - I agreed because it was an end point, so felt manageable.
Literally the last week, I felt like a new person, practically overnight. I was still sad, and missed my ex, but the debilitating feeling of not getting out of bed, not eating etc., passed exactly as and exactly when he predicted.
You can do this!
I hate to say this but this relationship doesn't seem to be working for either of you. And to be honest he almost sounds like a person who has been emotionally abused, you continually disapprove of him and dislike him and he just tries harder to win your affection. Because of the constant depleting of his self esteem he believes he is not worthy or capable of finding another relationship so he clings to the one he is in and tries to make you love him and stop rejecting him. The cycle will continue until either you end it or he is able to rebuild his self worth.
Sorry if I am way off base here but that is just the impression I got from reading your post.
Good luck!
I agree with all the other bees - this relationship needs to stop before it goes any further. I see two people trying to change eachother; and the one thing my mother has always taught me "You cannot change people, only accept them". He seems to accept you (partially, I believe more effort on his part would prove this true) and you seem to accept him (again, not totally because of you going astray, etc). If you're having these problems before you get married, what makes you think it will go away?
Yes, you're going to get depressed. Nothing about this is easy. You may even lie on the couch all day, cry, want to go back to him, etc. The hardest part about all of this is that you both are willing to be together, but you know that long-term will prove this disastrous. You have to :cringes: sorry honey, but suck it up and just do it. I wouldn't even try to establish a friendship (considering the previous timeline).
I'm a firm believer that you marry for love, happiness, future, and convenience (bc timing is everything). So far, you have love and convenience .... you're missing the other two.
I'm sorry honey that this is happening - again, one of the hardest things to go through. But, the hive is here for support. And good luck.
If only he knew what you REALLY think of him, I don't think the decision to continue the relationship would be yours to make. He will never be what you want him to be, so do the kindest thing and let him go.
You just aren't right for each other and probably never will be.
I read your entire post. Your FI seems like he puts you on a pedestal and you are constantly looking down on him, like he is beneath you. He can’t do anything right in your standards except make cute babies. And the cute baby, sounds like it is for your amusement.
Why are you still with this man? Do you think you couldn’t find someone who looks as good as him? The only reason why anyone would put up with what you described is because they have nothing to lose. IMHO it sounds like you both are extremely unhappy. Find someone who is going to make you happy, someone who you want to make happy as well.
I was in a sort of similar situation: I was with someone who was ways different than me. We were not completely opposite on everything, but we were on some very important things. AND, I found it difficult to talk with him. He wasn't much of a talker, and our conversations often felt superficial and not very meaningful. Long story short, we broke up and a year later I met the love of my life. Now I wonder how I could have ever thought I was in love with the previous guy! With my current SO I have a great feeling, we talk and talk for hours about everything, and we're on the same page on lots of important things. Plus our personalities fit quite well.
So I think, based on what you wrote and how you feel about your FI, that he's not the right person for you!
@mwitter80: Well said. I think you BOTH deserve to have somebody in your life who truly makes you happy. I feel bad for him, honestly.
He isn't going to change. I mean, he may graduate and get a decent job, but he's not going to become a go-getter. He's not going to be top of his class, top of his field...any of that. That's not him. And that's okay...but if it's not okay with you, then you need to get out.
My FI and I have different interests. I like to be active, I run and go to the gym for fun...he sits at a computer for fun. But the time we DO spend together is truly enjoyable. It seems like you do not enjoy him.
you def need to break up with this guy for good. You do not like or respect him. It is mean of you to let this poor boy feel like he will have a good life with you and that you love him when you obviously DO NOT.
Okay, I DID read your entire post, and the reason I did is this - I've said the same things before.
I also am in a relationship with a man who I don't feel matches my personality caliber, but let's be honest? How many people like us - outgoing, A type - really do AND value a loving, committed relationship? In my experience? Not many.
My SO and I have been together for 5 1/2 years, and we split when I was 18 for three months, for the EXACT reasons you said above. And guess what? Just like you, I came back. You know why? Because after all was said and done, and the lust of a new love was gone, there was nothing - no stability, no connection, no longevity.
I know how much it sucks that you can't sit and have an "intellectual" conversation with him, but I guarantee he's not dumb, he's just not as well versed in the same subjects as you. And I know how much it sucks when you want to go out with the girls to the bar, dance some, drink some, and he could really care less to even make an effort to PRETEND to want to go with you. It's frustrating, I get it, believe me!
But let me tell you what... when you're older, and all you want is to relax, enjoy your life, and spend it with a loving husband who would rather snuggle with you on the couch then go out for beers with his buddies every night, you'll be glad you hung around. I know that SO and I are not always on the same page socially right now, but like you said, you're mid 20's! Most people our age still want to go out and have fun, and we are fortunate to have somebody at home waiting for us :)
Give the counseling a shot, I hope all works out for you :)
You can do it msseahorse! It will be hard, and you will question yourself, but keep in mind that it's the best thing for both of you in the long run. After a while all pain fades. You just need to be strong and patient. Keep your family and friends close to you, and use their shoulders to cry on. Like someone up-thread said, your brain will need weeks to readjust, but then when you least expect it your cloudy days will become sunny again and you will feel like yourself. You said you like to do adventurous things. so do them! Do all the things you loved about yourself but felt like you couldn't because your guy kept you back. Surround yourself with new things and experiences, and get rid of all the things that remind you of him. *hugs*
It sounds as though you're trying to marry someone you really can't stand and who you think is beneath you.
This isn't going to end well, and I think you already know that.
To have a healthy relationship, you have to be able to communicate openly, healthily, and without fear. It sounds like he can't do that with you. Game over, even without the other many, many, many issues.
I was married to a man for ten years who was not my intellectual equal. For ten years, I had to curb my vocabulary, explain things several times, and basically dumb-down my conversation. It gets tiring--very tiring. And when I finally realized that I was completely unhappy, realized it was time to end the marriage.
At the end we had this conversation:
Me: You don't understand half of what I say.
Him: I don't understand a quarter of what you say.
Me: Doesn't that bother you?
Him: No, I love you.
Me: But don't you think we should be able to communicate and have intelligent conversations together? Don't you ever just wonder, what's the point?
Him: No.
Me: Well, I do... (the rest of the conversation is inconsequential.)
I can remember that conversation like it was yesterday. Now that wasn't the only reason we divorced, there were a lot more issues than that. My point is, even though we were married for ten years and basically had a good marriage for most of that time, I was never satisfied. From the beginning, I was always wondering "what's the point?"
Don't get married unless you're absolutely sure. Life is too short to live with regret.
Aw honey, you know what it's time to do, but you really, really don't want to do it. Think about it this way, if you knew for sure you would end up married to a guy whom you were far more compatible within the next five years, would you stay with your current SO? Someone else said it well--you are used to this relationship, and think that your doubts, misgivings, and general lack of compatibility are normal. You are worried about throwing away an ever-present "OK" relationship for an unknown future.
I've been where you are--six years with a man that I never really clicked with, but who was great on paper. For us it was sort of the other way around--he was more intellectual than I am, and I know he was frustrated when I wouldn't engage in debates on politics and philosophy. I wanted to watch sports--he wanted to watch indpendent films with subtitles (not that there's anything wrong with that--heh).
What finally got to me was that no matter what his great personality traits were, and how badly I wanted it to work out between us, I was unhappy in our relationship. I finally had the courage to break up with him, even though I was scared to death that I would never have another relationship with anyone. I was also naiive and thought you only broke up with someone if you just couldn't stand them. It's not true--being chronically unhappy and knowing you are not satisfied with your SO's inherent personality is enough to give up a relationship.
How did it turn out for me and my former boyfriend? We are almost five years post-breakup and he is married to a women he is so much more compatible with, and I am engaged to a guy who makes me understand what I was missing in my last relationship. A relationship shouldn't be so hard to navigate all the time--when it's a struggle just to co-exist with your SO, and you are talking yourself into staying with him, it's time to let go.
I tried to read most of your post and the replies since, but I must admit I skimmed. If you want to committ to making this relationship work, I suggest you read "The Five Love Languages" by Dr. Chapman. It explains how people give/receive love differently and might explain why your SO would clean and cook rather than splurge on gifts for you and why both ways are "ok"
Other than that, I wish you luck on what ever you choose to do.
Isn't it better to be happily single and looking for someone you actually like and respect rather than wasting another 8 years with someone you don't even like because you're too scared to leave? Keep your eyes on the prize. If you haven't fixed your issues in 8 years, odds are you won't.
I wanted to speak up as someone who is MARRIED to a guy totally different from me. We both know words the other doesn't understand (as we have advanced education in very different fields) so sometimes we have to explain ourselves. While there are many things that we enjoy doing together, we both have different hobbies that we engage . And I love to go out and be with friends, while as a very shy person he wants to stay home.
So we compromise. And we explain. And we listen, remember, and I know a little more of what he knows about and he knows a bit more of what I know about. And sometimes I go out by myself and he is waiting when I get home. And sometimes while I was out, he's built a new piece of furniture for me, or fixed something around the house.
And there are moments when he is not reacting how I think he should or I am not reacting how he thinks that I should and I think to myself, "oh no, we're just too different." But there are just as many moments where we agree, or one of us looks at the other as says, "I don't know what to think/do here. What would you do?"
Marriage between very different people can work out. Try listening to Paula Abdul's "Opposite's Attract" song, it explains it very well! But you have to make the differences your strength, not your weakness.
@SnugglesKD: Wow you must be a lot stronger than I am, because I so so easily fall apart! Kudos for having gone through this process successfully! Yeah we're taking time for this to happen, the church is kinda busy with the new year so I'm not exactly sure when they can accomodate us. I'm so tired of going through breaking up just to get back together, so I want to be 100% sure that this is it. A note about the FI - he really just wants to be with me despite everything (Hoo boy do I tell him when I'm unhappy and what I'm unhappy about). I'd love for him to tell me to break this off already!
@Sasha2011: Haha no worries about the long post! I for one don't mind the longer posts as it lets people break down things and not just jot down generalities :) And you are absolutely right with MY own issues of self-esteem! I was this naive, goody two shoes 15 yr old girl when I had my first bf (childhood friend) who cheated on me on a monthly basis, drinks, smokes, does pot, forced me to watch porn (like literally hold my eyes open), whose friends connived to get us to have sex and so would lock me in a bedroom with him trying his darndest for me to give in to him; he wasn't proud of me because I was just this innocent, uncool, smarty pants tomboy and didn't hang out with me during our first Christmas together. 11 months later he broke up with me because I would never let him have sex with me. Yeaaaah. It was only recently that I realized how traumatic that must have been for me, and a HUGE part of why I was such a dysfunctional girlfriend for many many years, and why I keep taking crap from people, and why I think I'm gonna keep on cheating cuz I thought that was the normal thing to do (despite logically knowing that it's wrong). And that although I'm much more confident in myself and can project confidence, I still sometimes find it a disadvantage to be always seen as a child because of my short and petite body type! Children don't usually wear mini dresses with stilletos :p
And you're right with taking time (I know a lot are saying to just pack up and leave, which I'm also considering). There's more to relationships than one's likes or dislikes, personality quirks and preferences. I really thought that as long as two people are willing to work at any issue, no matter how big and seemingly insurmountable, then that partnership is already a success by virtue of this singular commitment to each other. I gave him so much slack because I saw how stressed he was getting what with studying school full-time and working part-time, with the rest of the time spent with me just snuggling (he just doesn't have my hyperexcitability). He's promising to "court" me more, cuz I realized I do like romancing in a relationship. As for biological clocks, I know that all too well, as I am in the OB field, lol!
Culturally, it's mostly people outside our immediate families that revere the whole asian/caucasian dynamics. My parents are quick to tell me to break it off if I really feel he's not good enough for me; and they treat him like a son because he's a good boy and my parents are just warm that way (to which poor FI is sooo attracted to; he loves my close-knit family). Heck, his mum adores me and totally respects me for what I have accomplished, my personality, and is interested in my culture. (lol his dad gets scared to talk to me because he has to speak in english).
@MissBoston: Wow that 12-week timeline is pure gold - I wish I knew that back then, so I would've avoided this kerfuffle in the first place. I suck at breakups, I'm too much of a softy when someone makes puppy-dog eyes at me >_< I'm still friends with ALL my exes, and I know at least two who want to get back together. Er. For some reason I have inculcated in my mind that it's selfish for me to not let a person in my life because who am I to tell them that they can't come in when they want to?! I've been working on this (and have FINALLY deleted that manipulative ex from facebook and my life, as well as this guy who has sexually assaulted me - yes, yes, I have many issues lol). Seriously though, I think I have major troubles with being alone, or the prospect of being alone (despite having people around me). I'm too much of a snugglybear :(
@inahat: Your perception is keen! The cycle of emotional AND verbal abuse did happen, especially between the 2-yr and 6-yr mark, because I would be so frustrated, tried push him away, say all kinds of mean things, cruel and careless words would just spew out of my mouth, with him just letting me do this while I keep pleading for him to help me stop this train of destruction! We had awful conflict-resolution skills! It got sooo unhealthy and dysfunctional that we just had to break up (this was the major breakup that ended with me being a couch potato only to get back together later + me dealing with PTSD from a horrible experience while in school). After the breakup, I fell in love (HARD) with one of my good guy friends when I went back home, and was completely over FI by the time I got back here. That guy filled everything that was missing from FI, taught me respect and different love languages, melted away my pent-up resentment of all guys in general, taught me how to chill out; except it didn't work out due to the LDR and other major issues this other guys has (he just wants it easy, live by the beach and surf all day). I eventually got back with FI, and it felt like a different relationship! I stopped letting stress dictate my words and my actions, was kinder and more loving, and we both grew so much because of this. Because we were so impressed in both our individual growth and as a couple, we realized maybe it's different this time, maybe we can work it out! We started doing things more together, focused more on our spiritual growth, and things were going so well (and all our friends could attest to this) that we felt comfortable enough to get engaged. And now, this. Sigh.
@njm1313: You're totally right! I stick by that saying that goes "It's not about loving the perfect person; It's about loving the imperfect person perfectly!". I know I can't change his core, and that I can't suppress what I really am either. It's like rubbing two stones together to make a fire that just doesn't quite materialize. Lots of friction, lots of energy, lots of hope for that spark to finally come. I honestly wish I would enjoy his company more, that somehow all these things that bug me about him would just...go away. And referring to the quote, we've been trying to do this for a while now. :/ He totally and utterly accepts ALL of me, I kid you not. Everybody wants us to get married because everybody, aside from lil ole me, thinks he is IT. I wish I knew that in my heart meself.
@smyley: He does though, I tell him everything (now in a calmer, non-confrontational manner). He has issues with his own self-worth and self-esteem that he just internalized and agreed with all the observations I made about him. We're working on that.
@7mom: He totally puts me on a pedestal, and it was great for a while to be so exalted. But then I matured a bit and realized that I don't care for this "you're my other half business", but instead appreciate the notion of two WHOLE people making the decision to give themselves wholly to each other. And honestly? Yes, I think I won't get anybody better than him (cute babies aside). His level of devotion is next to nothing. I can't possibly be friends with him after, or know anything about him because I'll be insanely jealous of that lucky woman who gets the end result of all this!
@Lexsy: Yeah wow I wish if this breakup does occur, that I would be as lucky as you! I keep thinking well, he can't give me EVERYTHING, so why not just have friends I can talk to about everything under the sun?? Except when I hung out with an ex for a day (yes, yes I will stop doing this), I found myself so amazed at how easily time passes talking about anything and started wanting that in my relationship with FI, which is severely lacking. I want to be with someone where the phrase "Marriage is a conversation which always seem so short" is applicable. :/
@missrobots: *I* feel bad for him >_< I wish I could just enjoy his company without doing major renovations on both of our characters. I enjoy the cuddles, just not so much the lack of conversation and romance between us.
@hzleys100: Well as much as I appreciate your comment, it's awfully hard to have something "very obvious" on the net where anonymous people throw out their personal woes to other anonymous people. There is love in this relationship, and there is respect, or at least attempts to. For a time, yes, I didn't respect him for all the reasons stated above, but I do try to nurture respect for him in areas of personal growth in his life, which are NOT explicitly mentioned above. Geewhiz, the post would then be 10 times longer! :) My main issue is that although we have good times, I still somehow find myself in too many lulls, and too many moments of unhappiness coupled with too much gazing at the grass on the other side.
@sleepingbeauty88: Oh wow a voice of dissent, and so welcome too! That's a huge huge reason why I hung around. The cuddles are amazing, the fact that he's always been there for the tears and the brokenness, the silly things, the frustrating things, and pretty much everything, makes me loathe the idea of leaving him. I'm in a constant state of trying to calculate and recalculate the cost-benefits of this relationship. Yes, he's not dumb although his thought processes just work in a different way that I'm used to (which does frustrate me). When I was a little girl I thought I was gonna marry a poet. Oh well. I'll definitely post about the end result of all this.
@beebeebuzzbuzz: He didn't really keep me back from anything; I'm already doing all the things I want to do, including lengthy travels. I think I just wish he was already financially stable so we BOTH could travel all we want while still being financially responsible. The one thing he IS holding me back from? Dating other guys and being accountable to noone. Because I haven't really "dated". I'm on the fence about that.
@crayfish: Oh crayfish, I thought we really could rise above this communication business, but we just couldn't! And you are absolutely right that it's game over if he can't ever open up to me. We always fought about how he's everybody else's confidante and advisor and he could never do that with ME. Probably just so afraid of ME. Gahh.
@Loribeth: I'm sorry that happened to you. I have those feelings right now, of tiredness, unhappiness, and lack of satisfaction. Thus this post on the boards. :( *sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach*
Hoo boy, life is hard mann.
I agree with many PP's, but I'm going to take it a step further. It sounds to me like you have been so focused on getting engaged that you lost sight of what a marriage should be. You accepted traits in a partner that a rational you wouldn't have even considered, almost like you had blinders on. The biggest one I think you're realizing right now that the dust has settled has to do with $. Not only have you been supporting your FI in school which he is nonchalant about, but he will probably never be a provider and to top it off you paid for your own engagement ring. All things you were willing to deal with during the wanting to get engaged frenzy, but now that it's reality it doesn't seem so reasonable anymore.
There are aspects of your FI that you like. He's such a big part of your past and maybe you do love him on some level, but he is not the guy for you and if you marry him it either won't be happy or it will end in divorce.
@Phantom: A relationship shouldn't be so hard to navigate all the time--when it's a struggle just to co-exist with your SO, and you are talking yourself into staying with him, it's time to let go. - One of my good friends told me this, which spurred me into thinking hard about how I really want to live my life. I'm glad you know what "looking good on paper" means, and how hard it is to break up with someone when everybody's gonna be so confused! Gah, you inspire me!
@VegasBaby: We did have this talk about our different ways of "loving" each other. We ARE both very loving people (differences and negative traits aside). I will try to read that book though, thanks for the advice.
@CorgiTales: Corgi! I don't even think I know how to be happily single! I have this really huge fear of being alone *wails*. I know I need to learn how to stand on my own two feet, but somehow there's always a romantic connection waiting just around the corner without me looking for it. Then it goes poof! and I get back with FI. And yes, I want to stop wasting BOTH our time. :( And I realize that yes, nothing is gonna change, not really.
@puppymom2006: We *are* trying to make our differences our strengths. I guess a difference I can see is that you guys have superior communication skills, as well as similar intellectual level, which my FI and I don't have. :( I'd love to learn new things, and I just don't get that from FI. I'd love for him to know words that I don't (well, aside from language differences). He depends on me to make things fun and novel. So, I get bored. And you know what they say about idle hands :( -i say this because I know I get easily tempted-
@moderndaisy: Yeah the money thing became a huge issue because I just came back from an emergency trip back home to visit a very sick relative, only to come back and having to pay for the e-ring (which was fine), AND then have him ask me for a loan to pay off last semester's tuition and a bit of this semester, or he will have to take a break from school AGAIN. (at this point, goodbye eurotrip). We knew we were gonna have a long engagement (waiting til he's done school), and we were comfortable starting to plan because both sets of parents were gonna contribute.
Knowing that statistically finances are the number one reason for divorce, I'm taking a step back, halted ALL kinds of wedding planning, and now the wedding is off. Which will be a nightmare for both of us. Sigh.
Imma swap the clear diamond for a pink one and sing Destiny's Child all day about being able to buy my own diamonds!
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