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Potty training an abused puppy

posted 2 years ago in Pets
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    1.
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    Honey bee
    Rosie Girl    September 18, 2010   Montana

    So, we recently got 2 new puppies. One is 8 weeks and crazy and kind of getting the hang of going outside and going to the potty. But the other one, not so much.

    He is about 5 months old and I rescued him from a puppy mill. He was so sickly skinny, and we are pretty sure he has been mistreated. He cowards at everything, is super scared of anything (including a cardboard box), and is the most timid thing I have ever seen. When our other puppy gets spanked for peeing on the floor, he cowards and hides. (and our puppy just wags her tail and jumps around all happy, doesn't even care!)

    Well, we will take them out to go potty, and the one will go but the other won't. We wait and wait and finally go back inside. The second we get in, he potties on the floor! We are trying not to punish him really bad because he is already so scared, but he needs to know that it isn't OK to go on the floor. We have put out the puppy pee pads and everything, but nothing seems to be working.

    Does anyone know how to potty train him?

     
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    Helper bee
    jtsing      

    I recommend crate training the 5 month old puppy, both of them actually. And not spanking either for having accidents, as they are just learning, and most of the time the accidents are caused because we don't know their signs yet of when to let them out. With the 5 month old...stay with them outside until he does go, even if a really long time, play w/ him, throw him a ball, and when he does go potty outside praise him and give him a treat. Will take some time and will be hard for you at first, but overall, will be rewarding and he will get the hang of going outside...and soon you will be accident free! Wishing you all the luck, our puppy is 16 wks old and it was trying the first few weeks...but you can do it!

     
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    Honey bee
    OttawaBride2011    May 21, 2011   Ottawa, Ontario

    Potty training is frustrating. However, smacking them really doesn't work. It's not the best method by far. A stern NO is just about the best you can do.

    Our puppy did the same thing, and still sometimes does, we'd be out with him for what seemed like forever, and then he'd pee as soon as he got inside. It's normal puppy behaviour, I think. He's 5 months old now and still doesn't tell us when he needs to go out.

    The best advice I can give you is to take him out all of the time. We took ours out every hour regardless of if we thought he had ot pee or not. Definitely take him out after he drinks water, and try limiting his water intake, only giving it to him when you're around to watch, so you know he's had a drink and probably needs a pee.

     
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    Blushing bee
    smy    September 18, 2010   Brooklyn, NY/ wedding in HHI, SC

    Hi there - my dog was very shy as a puppy too, it can be very hard. I'm not a trainer, but there are way better methods to train puppies not to potty inside than punishment or spanking. Ignore all pottying indoors, especially if you catch him after the fact, he won't know why you're scolding him, and just reward them big time for going outside where they should. Either way by 5 months, he's only still a baby and while he may know to go outside, they aren't physically mature enough to hold it sometimes. I think it took until about 7 or 8 months for my pup to be 100% indoors. (And expect it to backslide after neutering for a bit).

    This website really helped me out, they have boards like this that are moderated by trainers who are BEYOND helpful. Here's a page with some articles on housebreaking, hope it helps! 

    http://mysmartpuppy.com/v1/library.html

     
    5.
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    Bee Keeper
    lilyfaith    June 23, 2012   Lakeview, Chicago

    Positive reinforcement! I work with abused horses, and you just have to let everything you know fall away, because it can do much more damage than good. I wouldn't even let him see you spank the other dog. You can still say "No." in a very firm tone, but at this point, I'd keep them both on a strict bathroom schedule. Any time at all that he does go to the bathroom when you take him out (which might need to be once an hour for a little while) heap praise on him. Anytime he goes to stand by the door to show he needs out, praise him and take him out right away. You can gradually reduce the intervals the more he "gets it" and eventually you'll just be taking them out at normal times. Make sure you take them out together so that he sees the other dog goes out there to go to the bathroom as well. 

    It's really more about repetition and him understanding what you want than punishment, which is not as effective with most animals. 

     
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    Sugar bee
    mishelleez    November 5, 2010   DW- Bahamas

    When potty training my puppy or any kind of training we NEVER EVER spanked them thats just mean. They go in "time out". Our vet told us being in time out is worse for them because all they want to do is play and they cant play in time out.

    Rubbing their nose and spanking is the most unhelpful thing someone can do to potty train or general training.

     

    We taught our pup to ring a bell when she wanted to go out.

     
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    AnnieAAA    October 25, 2009   Dallas, TX

    My friend is going through the same thing. Her rescue puppy had a UTI and thats why she was always going inside, but the puppy was severly neglected so even with the cured UTI she still goes everywhere. So sad...

    Your puppy seems to have better control over his bladder, its just an issue of him choosing not to go outside & going inside instead. My advice is to buy this liquid dog attractants. We've used this and it works great! Just got to give it time :)

     
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    Honey bee
    hotchildinthecity    June 12, 2010   New York, NY

    I also have to chime in and agree that spanking either puppy is not a good idea.  Not only is it not good for the one puppy, but the "abused" puppy probably sees it and fears that you will spank him as well.

    Other posters have great suggestions and crate training would probably be great here.

     
    9.
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    Buzzing bee
    JoesWifey    May 24, 2009   NYC/Wedding in Indiana

    Yeah, I agree that spanking, even if lightly, really isn't going to help, especially since the little one seems to think you are playing.

    Definitely make a schedule for potty time. It might have to be every hour, or every two hours or something so that the 5mos doesn't get the chance to go to the bathroom in the house.

    While I never owned and had to care for a puppy mill dog, I've been around them since my husband works at an animal shelter. It will take time, but he'll come around. You just have to be kind and patient. A little bribery with something extra yummy doesn't hurt. My DH usually gets dogs to trust him at work by eating his lunch with them. He'll go buy some chicken or turkey or something and sit quietly with them and toss them little pieces as he eats. It seems to work for him!

     

    Good luck, and thank you for adopting!!

     

     
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    Helper bee
    TamiN    June 1, 2001   Sonoma, CA

    I had a rescue from a puppy mill and had some similar issues -- what worked best for him was a belly band.  I'll admit it looked goofy but it definately worked.

    Good luck!

     
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    Sugar bee
    quiche    May 2, 2009   Chicago

    If you can, I'd just take them out every hour and have treats rain down from heaven when they go :)  It does take time, as we are learning as well with our new pup!

    I'd also buy Nature's Miracle & spray the area after you clean it so it neutralizes the odor & they (hopefully) won't go there again!  Good luck!

     
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    Honey bee
    Rosie Girl    September 18, 2010   Montana

    Sorry, but I have to disagree with somethings. Just from the way I was raised and how we have always raised all our animals. I will continue to spank and discipline the one puppy. It has always worked for us.

    As for the older one. I know that he can hold his bladder becuase if he sleeps in our bed with us, he won't get up and go to the bathroom at night. But when he sleeps on the floor, he gets up and goes. We played for about 3 hours in the yard last night and he went potty, then came in and peed on the floor reguardless.

    @Annie: what are liquid dog attractants?!

    @TamiN: what is a belly band?!

     
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    Honey bee
    hotchildinthecity    June 12, 2010   New York, NY

    @RosieGirl: I just think the problem that you're going to run into with the other dog is that if he was abused and he sees you spanking the other dog, he is going to live in fear of being hit as well.

     
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    Bumble bee
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    I have to agree that if you have an abused dog, the worst thing you can do is spank him or spank the other dog in front of him.  He's just going to associate you with the people who abused him before and be scared of you.  Abused dogs can't be treated the same, so although spanking has worked for you in the past, maybe you should switch up your training method for a while to accomodate the abused puppy.  It couldn't hurt, and it might even work.  I also think that crate-training is invaluable when house-training puppies.

     
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    Honey bee
    Rosie Girl    September 18, 2010   Montana

    @hotchild: Yeah, we figured that out, so one of takes him to a different room and plays while the other scolds the other puppy. We can't do anything around him becuase everything scares him! My FI was breaking down a cardboard box the other day, and that poor dog flew under the chair and sat there shaking! It is so sad, so we are super careful about what we do in front of him now.

    We just need to figure out how to potty train him differently than we have ever done with any of either of our dogs. Crate training may help, but how does that really work? We play outside, and as soon as we come in, he pees or poops. I don't want to keep him in a crate all day and night.

     
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    soonerpsych    June 26, 2010   Oklahoman at heart, now in Southwest FL

    We adopted an abused puppy, and we had to use a detterant spray everywhere, like Bitter Apple, but something that smells bad so they don't want to go there.  The good thing is that most of what dogs think smells bad isn't actually appalling to us, so the spray didn't stink up my house. We also crate trained her, mosly because she was a serious chewer too.

    We did and still do discipline our dog, who's now 3 and she is one of the most well behaved dogs I know.  My roommate has a 9 year old dog and says our dog is by far better trained and better behaved.  She's only afraid of large men now and does really well with everything, even being left out of the crate.  We rarely have to even tell her no now.  

    It takes a long time, so I wish you the best of luck! 

     
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    Buzzing bee
    caitlanc    September 12, 2009   Western Slope of Colorado

    I just worked with a puppy who would do the same thing - go outside but then come right back in and potty on the floor.  (Note, I am NOT a dog trainer but I've had pretty good success.)  He hadn't been abused but punishment wasn't getting him any where either. 

    So I took him for two days and was always with him and constantly supervising.  First thing in the morning we went outside (I would have my shoes on before I even let him out of the crate so that it was straight out the door), after breakfast, after playing, after being crated for a nap, before bed time and just once every hour or two if nothing else was going on.  And holy crap did it feel like we were outside forever sometimes!  However, we didn't go inside until he at least peed (and poo'd if I expected he should have to like first thing in the morning or in the evening.)  Basically, I never gave him an opportunity to go inside and when he went outside he got a really smelly, exciting treat and lots of praise and play time.  If he does manage to go inside don't scold the dog but you can scold the mess.  I expect he'll be really sensitive and that will be a sufficient deterrent.  I haven't gotten an update in a while but last I had heard, he had gone a week without an accident (down from multiple in a day.)

    Good luck!  It's not a fun process but it can be done!

    ETA: Crate training works by giving the dog their own den (you may find that your abused pup really likes it and feels safe in there.)  Dogs don't like to mess in the same area that they sleep so if the crate is not too large (enough room to stand, turn and lay down comfortably but that's it) they'll hold it in order to avoid soiling their bed.  The dog doesn't have to be in the crate all the time but it should be used when he's not supervised until he's housebroken. 

     
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    soonerpsych    June 26, 2010   Oklahoman at heart, now in Southwest FL

    caitlanc makes a good point.  If our dog had gone in the crate or something while we were gone, or if we didn't notice a mess in the house for a while, we wouldn't scold her.  They don't really remember things like that, so any possible discipline has to be in the spot and right away.

     
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    smy    September 18, 2010   Brooklyn, NY/ wedding in HHI, SC

    Dogs' metabolisms change at night to help them hold it (like people, we don't pee in our sleep usually either). Scientifically, a 5 month old puppy can't really hold it. If they are kept contained, like in a crate, or as you said the pup is kept in your room with you, they are less likely to potty in their area/space. The crate teaches a puppy to hold it in. If you have the pup in the crate to chill out and nap for say, 2 hours, always take it outside to potty right away rather than let them run around first. You should build a routine that is essentially play, crate, outside (make sure pup potties), repeat. If the pup doesn;t potty come back inside, keep him on leash with you to watch him, wait 5-10 minutes, go back outside. And so on. Also as someone else mentioned, make sure to clean up after the indoor messes with an enzyme cleaner, like Nature's Miracle, to remove the smell, otherwise they'll want to keep going there. (Like how the liquid attractants work outside).

     

    Also, the shyness is almost a completely separate issue, but may contribute if the pup is peeing when frightened by everyday things. Use treats and gentle, happy encouragement to teach the dog that "scary" boxes and whatnot are ok, and don't force the pup to be near them too long either. There are tons of write-ups on how to help shy and sensitive dogs. The page I posted earlier has articles on that as well, and Patricia McConnell is an author/behaviorist who has a lot of good insights. 

     
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    Honey bee
    Rosie Girl    September 18, 2010   Montana

    Caitlanc: Thanks! I am going to try that. It is really hard when we are at work all day. So we have been putting puppy pee pads in their kennel and then by the door in the house. Hoping they will make the connection and then when we see him go to the pad, we can take him out.

    He never shows signs he has to go though. I think he even walks and pees at the same time becuase there was a trail of it last night!

     
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    Buzzing bee
    JoesWifey    May 24, 2009   NYC/Wedding in Indiana

    Wow. Just because something was done the old way doesn't mean it should continue to be done now that we know better. That's kind of ignorant, imo. Hitting a dog really isn't effective, and you said yourself that it's not working because she gets excited. Multiple people have advised you against it. Sorry to sound rude, especially since I usually am not, but animal welfare is just one of my "things," especially considering DH's line of work, and it makes me sad that people continue to do certain things when we know better and have better knowledge than we used to. I'm not implying you are abusing your dog, and I know adopting can be rough, but really, it's a dog. Not a human. They have different needs and a different mindset than humans, no matter how much we want to make them our babies. Please reconsider.

     
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    Buzzing bee
    caitlanc    September 12, 2009   Western Slope of Colorado

    I would stop using the pads (especially not in the crate and especially considering his history.)  I think they're probably just going to confuse him in this situation.  Alfie (the pup I was working with) didn't really show obvious signs of having to go either.  They were really subtle and sometimes non-existant so I dictated when it was time to potty rather than trying to have him tell me.  (Oh!  I forgot to mention, use the command "Go Potty" or whatever you prefer.  You can teach your dog to basically go on command.  VERY helpful for roadtrips, etc.) 

    Like when you're potty training kids and you're constantly asking, "Do you need to go potty?"  Same thing.  You can tell him when he needs to do his business.  I think this is VERY true in your case.  It sounds like he's not recognizing his body's signals (a likely side effect of the conditions dogs are usually kept in at puppy mills.)  In this case it's just going to take some physical maturation.  Again, think kids, "Mommy, I have to go potty."  0.2 seconds later "Uh oh.  Mommy, I went."  They don't quite have that concept of "I'm going to go soon so I need to start moving now."  It's all still very immediate. 

    If you catch him in the act, swoop him up (the surprise should make him stop), take him outside, "Go Potty", reward when he goes. 

     
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    Bumble bee
    Miss Chocolate    July 24, 2010   Texas... Married in California

    My advice other than the crate, would be to take him out every 45 minutes... that's what I had to do with Luke until he got to where he could hold it for longer periods of time. I started out with a half hour, then 45 minutes, then an hour- so on and so forth. And it worked! Plus he's also crate trained. He does not like going potty in the crate because that's his haven so he learned to not go in there. I think that would help for your little guy.

    Good luck!! :]

     
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    Honey bee
    hotchildinthecity    June 12, 2010   New York, NY

    I didn't want to be rude either, but I agree with JoesWifey. Animal welfare is my "thing" too and I volunteer at an overcrowded city shelter where I see abused animals all the time.  I'll politely agree to disagree, but I think spanking/hitting a dog in any way is not acceptable. 

    Confession time: when I was a kid, we used to smack the dog with the newspaper when he was "bold."  We also got him from a petstore where I'm sure he was the product of a puppymill.  Now me and my parents all have rescued animals and would never dream of spanking them for doing something wrong.  You live and learn, and just because you did something in the past doesn't make it right.

     
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    Busy bee
    twocatcupcake    September 17, 2010   Fargo, ND

    We're working on potty training our 10 week old puppy, too.  It can be frustrating at times, but try not to lash out your frustrations by spanking either puppy.  We're working with the mentality that our puppy is only peeing in the house b/c it's OUR fault, not his.  Obviously we are not communciating with him well enough and helping him learn that it is not acceptable to go in the house, so we are trying our best to adjust our routine to fit his. 

    All puppies have accidents.  When they go pee in the house, simple scoop them up while they're going and put them outside.  Then praise them TONS when they finish outside.  Then clean up the mess inside and go about your day as though nothing happened.  Puppies learn from positive reinforcement, and this method will teach them that they only get a 'potty party' when they go outside.

    If you find a mess and it's too late, just clean it up and move on.  Chalk it up to 'part of having a puppy is having accidents.'  All that your puppy is learning from you is to fear you if you're spanking either of them.  And trying to train a puppy when it fears you is hard work!  It sounds like your puppy really needs to learn to trust you guys, so help him by establishing a GOOD relationship with him, havings lots of patience, and giving him tons of praise when he does well.  Best of luck to you!

     

    PS, we've had our guy 2 weeks.  Sometimes he would pee in the house 4x an hour!  He would just go crazy and pee everywhere!  But it DOES get better - he hasn't had an accident since Sunday.  We expect he'll have many more, but he's on a good streak right now!  Smile

     
    26.
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    Worker bee
    moosejaw      

    Your title says potty training an abused puppy, but what you're doing: hitting a puppy for peeing on the floor is a form abuse!

    The dog will learn by repetition and patience. Dog's are NOT children and do NOT understand why you're hitting them especially when it comes to potty training. They're trying, but it's your job as the dog owner to break them of their other habits...gently and teach them by crating or association.

    Our dog was an "abused" dog. We rescued our pup (who's now 4) at 8 months old after she lived in a dumpster for 4 months of her life. We got her home and she wasn't potty trained, or ever walked on a leash, and like your pup was terrified of everything. It takes time. It takes patience and it takes NOT hitting another dog especially in front of another already timid dog to teach them. We used training treats and hung the leash by the door. Our pup quickly (in a mere 3 days) learned that if she wanted to go out, she could tap the leash with her nose and she went out. BINGO! It's all about association and positive renforcement. They'll get it eventually, but please stop hitting. They're not used to being in a home where they can't pee wherever; they're used to going where they slept, ate, and stayed ALL.DAY.LONG.

    Be gentle and show your timid pup that the world isn't scary and that you love and care for them. Good Luck.

     
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    Sugar bee
    mishelleez    November 5, 2010   DW- Bahamas

    JoesWifey - I totally agree!

    I didnt wanna be the rude one to say how horrible I thought she was with ALL of us telling her its not ok to spank a puppy or any pet

     
    28.
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    Buzzing bee
    gabrielleelise1981    August 28, 2010   Portland, Maine

    IMO, 8 weeks is awfully young to expect noticeable progress on potty-training. In many states, you can’t even sell/adopt puppies until they are 8 weeks old. The abused pup I would sort of treat like he was also 8 weeks old too – as he hasn’t had any proper care/treatment, and you need to start from the beginning with him. He isn’t equivalent to a 5 month old puppy who has been socialized/loved.

    I would imagine once he gets more comfortable in his own skin, he will have a much easier time telling you when he needs to go out. Right now, he’s busy being terrified of everything (not your fault, its his history). If he is that scared of everything, he probably doesn’t even really know when he needs to go, he’s busy being worried. If it were me, I would focus right now on building his self confidence though crating (gives him his own safe space), plenty of love and treats and positive reinforcement and worry about the potty training afterwards.

     
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    Sugar bee
    beekiss2      

    Patience and time are what they need to be potty trained.  Crate training works but you'll have to supplement it with going outside ALOT.  Go for a walk with your puppies, let them sniff around trees...

    Give them treats or lots of praise when they pee outside.  Never strike, yell, or push the puppies nose in it.

    Good luck

    EDIT:  Make sure you use a good cleaner, vinegar and water is effective but it SMELLS HORRID.  You can cut the smell by putting lavendar in it.

     
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    Rosie Girl    September 18, 2010   Montana

    The puppy that is abused is about 5 months old.

    Sorry but I don't need a lecture on not to spank my dogs. I think it is fine, and I will continue to do it. I am in no way abusing them. I play rougher with them then I spank them. And I only spank the the one because the other is so timid and scared. That is not what this post is about. It is about how to go about potty training a type of dog that you don't know how.

    I am thinking that crate training may not work with him. I might still try it, but he continually pees and poops on his bed right now. I believe that where he was kept was tiny and he had no other choice to sleep in his feces, so it really doesn't have much effect on him now. So sad. He had to have a bath ASAP when we got him because he was so filthy.

    We have professional cleaner (our friend owns a carpet cleaning business) so we are getting it all up, but that just means he is going all over! I am trying really hard to reward him really good when he goes out by giving him treats and such.

    I think I will try taking him out on a regular schedule. We have been outside playing with them in the evenings for a few hours, but I will make sure he goes right before we go in. Maybe if he sees the other dog go and get a treat, he will want to?

     
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    smy    September 18, 2010   Brooklyn, NY/ wedding in HHI, SC

    Housebreaking a puppy mill dog can be SO MUCH harder than any other dog, for exactly what you stated, that they were made to sleep in their own excrement in small spaces. I would say expect it to take a lot longer than a normal puppy and with a lot, lot, lot of time and patience and loving encouragement, you may one day have a fully housebroken dog. And that maybe he'll never be perfect, because of his origins. 

     

    I do have to add my two cents that spanking them really isn't going to help, and is a very old-school way of training. There are many more humane, and effective, options out there. Sometimes changing the status quo is a good thing. 

     
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    Miss Apricot    May 30, 2009   Minnesota

    You live and learn, and just because you did something in the past doesn't make it right.

     

    This is SO TRUE.  YES, this thread is about potty-training, not spanking, but studies have proven spanking a dog does NO GOOD while potty-training.

    My family always used to have outdoor dogs.  My parents were raised on farms, and dogs (and cats) were outdoor animals.  They didn't belong in the house unless they were tiny, (my great-grandma's chihuahua or my dad's family's pomeranian, for example).  Then I started researching dogs and canine behavior, and I realized that dogs are pack animals who want and NEED to be with their people, (there are a few exceptions to this, since some breeds like the LGDs were bred to work independently of people).  I took the time and EDUCATED MYSELF, and realized that just because we'd always done it that way didn't make it right.  We now have inside dogs, and I will never have an outdoor dog again, (unless I get my farm and an LGD to go with it).  If every time you had an accident as a child, you were slapped, would you potty train your children the same way?

    Spanking a dog for messing in the house does more harm than good.  Yes, your other dogs potty-trained, but it probably had nothing to do with the spankings they received and more to do with the fact that they got older and learned bladder control and where the appropriate place to go was.  Please please please please please DO NOT hit your dogs for any reason.  Spanking the other dog in a differnet room does even LESS good, because by the time you seperate the two dogs, the time for discipline has passed and the puppy no longer associates the punishment with the accident.  They don't have that long of a memory, and they don't reason in the same way human do.   If your dog has an accident in the house, roll up a newspaper, hit yourself in the head, and say, "I should have taken the puppy out sooner!" or "I should have watched the puppy closer."  Then clean up the mess with an enzyme cleaner to remove the smell of the accident.

    Potty-training a puppy mill dog is more difficult, because as you've already experienced, they are used to being forced to lie in their own waste.  Many of them may never have felt grass under their feet, so he may actually not understand what it's for.  When you take the puppies out, and your younger puppy pottys, praise her like crazy and let your other puppy see this.  Put him over by the pee/poo so he can smell it.  If he shows any interest, praise him.  If the smell gets him to go potty, praise him like crazy.  I know there is a Bee who has rescued pugs, (I'm so sorry, I forget your name!), but hopefully she'll see this an respond with some personal tips for training a dog from a puppymill situation.

    Also, I would enroll BOTH of your puppies in puppy kindergarten, (and do it ASAP, since most have a cut-off age of six months).  They will get some valuable socialization with other dogs and with people, which your puppy-mill rescue will definitely need.  With socialization comes confidence!

    But again, PLEASE don't hit your dogs. 

     
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    troubled      

    Treats, treats, treats, it's exhausting but it works quickly.  For the cardboard box just stand with it and call him and hold a treat out and throw him a treat as he gets closer until he's close enough to smell it and as he's smelling it just talk in a calm happy voice, maybe give him a little pet.He might hide for a little bit but just nudge him out of hiding and wait for him to come. 

    Same thing with the potty training, it's going to take a few weeks for it to be perfect but I'd try taking him on a walk in the evening, if that's when you're having trouble, since they almost always go when they're walking, and as soon as he tinkles you give the treat.  He'll start associating the two and when you seem him doing it outside, same thing with the treat. 

    For scared dogs 'No', not even in a loud voice but just in a quick bit of a sharp voice is usually enough to make the poor things shake in fear, so you might have to practice making your voice not too scary.  But if you catch him in the act of peeing inside I'd tell him 'No'.  A sharp quick voice even with puppies who aren't abused is usually more than enough to get the message across.  Though once in awhile I will take a rolled up newspaper and smack it against my hand for added noise while I say No with our older dog. 

     
    34.
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    Busy bee
    twocatcupcake    September 17, 2010   Fargo, ND

    'It is about how to go about potty training a type of dog that you don't know how.'

     

    But.. that's exactly what everyone's saying.  Training your dog other dog this way is only going to hinder your issue, not help it.  Dogs are smarter than you think - the weim (or whatever it is, looks like a weim from pics) can see/hear you 'punishing' the other dog in the other room or whatever, and that creates MORE fear for it, making it harder to train. 

    Sorry, I know everyone here is trying to help you, but it's hard when you ask for help but then don't want to hear the advice that numerous people are giving you.  Frown  Even the 8 week old won't learn that way, all that they learn is that pee in the house = spanking, so make sure you pee and then run when owner comes into the room!  They don't associate it with 'if I pee here, I get spanked, so perhaps I should consider peeing outside next time, but first signaling to my owner that I need to go outside, THEN relieve my 8 week old, very immature bladder.'  Ain't gonna happen.

     
    35.
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    Busy bee
    Cricket1524    September 4, 2010   Burbank, CA

    I'm not going to even address the spanking you've stated that that's not what this is about and I think everyone has made their opinions heard. What I will say is even if you're going to continue to do it with the abused puppy in the other room remember that animals have different instincts, they sense things differently than humans do so the abused puppy may OR may not still know what's going on only you can really judge that just be aware. This COULD end up having much bigger consequences between the two dogs or worse if you two should happen to have children around - your or others. (and I'm NOT implying that it's because of your spanking the other puppy but that it might not help the abused puppy to get over his fears which in turn leads to aggression).

    I can not praise bitter apple enough. I adopted a 1 year old. Luckily when I got her (she's 10 now) she was house broken already and also knew how to sit and shake but there were definitely some issues that needed to be dealt with as far as knowing who was alpha. Since I did not have her from a pup she wasn't as responsive to me as she might have been. Basic training took some time and even then she was much more stubborn than a puppy would have been and bitter apple was the perfect tool to break her.The other thing I used to do sounds silly but TOTALLY helped and I have a friend who is taking her puppy to an amazing trainer who did the same thing, if the dog is really acting up, not just normal puppy behavior but snapping or growling really testing etc and getting out of hand you simply muster the deepest growl you have and growl at them. This indicates that YOU are the alpha in the pack and you are the one who is dominate.

    When I first got her she was somewhat scared of most men. I found it helped to take her driving in the car and just calmly tell her it was "ok" anytime she'd see a man and get upset. It took several months and bringing her around my brothers as often as possible but now you can't even tell there was ever an issue. My theory is that she was beaten by a man with a broom (she's still slightly scared of brooms). It's just simply repetitive and calming tones. So when an issue like your FI with the cardboard happens my biggest suggestion is to lay out the card board on the floor and coax him out, pet him and talk to him in very very soothing and calming tones.

    Good Luck.

     
    36.
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    Busy bee
    twocatcupcake    September 17, 2010   Fargo, ND

    One question - in your pics, your 4 month old puppy has a collar on with some sort of box on it... is it an electric fence collar?  Or a no-bark collar or something?  That could be part of what's making him uneasy, and would make sense why he doesn't want to go outside if it's an e-fence collar. 

     
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    Sugar bee
    troubled      

    It doesn't sound like you'd ever intentionally harm the pup you spank, I mean you said you play rougher with her than you'd spank her, but I think that is quite confusing to them. 

    She probably thinks your spanking is you playing with her. 

    Puppies play together rough and so she might not understand why you sort of seem upset but you're still playing with her, she might even start to not associate you being upset with something bad if she sees you upset as playful. 

    Puppies when they wrestle hard,  if one bites too hard or something the hurt one will yelp and STOP playing.  My older dog when he gets tired of the puppies nonsense gives a sharp bark and does not continue playing, if he even gives a hint of lifting a paw or nose at her she'll take it as - oh, you don't really mean that you dont' want to play - and keep trying to wrestle him.  So that's why spanking doesn't usually work, especially with puppies, a sharp "NO" is more communicative of unhappiness then them thinking you're playing with them.

     
    38.
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    Buzzing bee
    JoesWifey    May 24, 2009   NYC/Wedding in Indiana

    "When our other puppy gets spanked for peeing on the floor, he cowards and hides. (and our puppy just wags her tail and jumps around all happy, doesn't even care!)"

    So, it's not working... That's what you said. It was a quote. Spanking does have everything to do with training the dog, including potty training. I know you aren't being abusive, and that's not really my issue here. My issue is that it simply doesn't work. You said yourself it's not working, and yet you want advice to help train the dog but you don't want to change your methods. I don't think there is a professional dog trainer alive that will agree that spanking is an effective method of training. Even Caesar Milan, the "Dog Whisperer" wouldn't agree with spanking even though his methods focus on humans asserting their dominance.

     

    I know you love your dogs. I know you are trying your best. I know that shelter dogs can be hard to house train, and a puppy mill dog is even harder yet, but please don't disregard what many people are telling you. It takes a lot of heart to take in not one but two dogs from such circumstances, and even more kudos to you for not giving up on them.

     

    From a link I found via Animal Planet:

    "The number one rule of dog training is don't hit -- ever! Not only is it unfair (and inhumane) as a correction, it can actually backfire on you -- sometimes with tragic results. Dogs don't hit each other, so they don't understand what getting hit is supposed to mean. They just know it's a physical threat and may eventually respond with their own physical violence in what they see as self-defense."

     

    here are some resources about training, though they don't all cover potty training specifically

    http://animals.howstuffworks.com/pets/how-to-train-a-dog3.htm (where I found the above quote)

    http://animals.howstuffworks.com/pets/dog-training.htm

    http://www.training-dogs.com/potty-training-dogs.html

    This looks particularly helpful

    http://www.dogtrainingbasics.com/Potty%20Training%20Basics.htm

    http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2114&aid=157

    http://www.canismajor.com/dog/hsetrain.html

    A lot of that stuff gets repeated in those links, and many of it has already been suggested by others here. You have a lot of good resources and advice and I think, in time, you will have two very well behaved puppies, but it takes time and commitment on your part. Again, I urge you to stop the spanking, not because I think you are abusing your dogs or hurting them, but because it's simply just not very effective and could make the problem worse. But if you still refuse to even consider it, then I guess it's just a lost cause because I've said all I can. Hopefully it starts to work, I guess, because I'd hate for the pups to have to be returned to the shelter if you can't get them trained.

    I really do wish you the very best of luck and again, thank you for adopting!

     
    39.
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    Busy bee
    miss.skinner    7/10/2010   Bethesda, MD

    I have puppy that just turned a year old and have to share my successes.

    1. Crate-train.  You can always wean them off of this later on but for now, this is what you need.  Just put old blankets/towels inside for comfort and in case of an accident it is easy to clean.  Send your dog to his/her crate when you do not have time to spend direct attention with them.  It may take a week or two for them not to cry but believe me this works! Give them a treat and praise for going into the crate. Most important rule:  The crate is their den/house.  Not time-out.  Designate another room for time out.  Ours is a bathroom with no windows.  5 minutes in there is torture for a lovable pup and they will not associate the crate with something bad.

    2.  Bell-train.  My parents did this with my dog growing up and now all my friends and I have bell trained our dogs as well.  It is the best way to go.  Hang a cheap bell from a string at your door around eye level for the dog.  Every time you take them outside hit it with your hand.  Eventually show them how they can hit it with their paw.  You just have to be consistent to do this everytime and in about a month your dog will be ringing a bell to go outside.  It is their way of communicating with you without scratching at the door, barking, or peeing on the floor.

    3.  Positive praise:  I am a kindergarten teacher and I found that the same techniques used for a five year old apply to a dog.  :-)  Ignore what you don't like (turn your back to them and look away) and praise up and down what you love (treats and love).

    I hope this helps.

     
    40.
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    4,141 posts
    Honey bee
    Rosie Girl    September 18, 2010   Montana

    Ok, give it a break please. I am not spanking the abused dog. I spank the other one, and guess what, I have only had to do it like 2 times, and she hasn't had an accident in 2 days. And I've only been trying to potty train her for like 4 days now. So, in my opinion, spanking works. Its a slap on the ass, not hard at all, to get her attention and be like, i saw what you did and it was wrong.

    I don't know which picture looks like a box on his collar? Its just a thin little puppy collar until he gets bigger and will get his big boy collar. Maybe it is the way the tag on it is sticking up? Its one of those AKC collars and the tag is sewn into it funky so it sticks straight up and doesn't rub on their neck.

    twocatcupcake: i do want advice on how to potty train this puppy. I don't want people to lecture me about how I am going about potty training the other or spanking the other. I have my beliefs and am going to stick with them. But it doesn't work with the abused puppy, so I need to find an alternative for him, which is why I asked.

     

     

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