Ok, here's the deal, bees! My fiance and I have already been living together for over a year, our finances are all shared and we have a shared bank account/savings. Health insurance is not an issue because he has a special plan that he was grandfathered into and it would actually cost more for the both of us to be put on a family insurance plan. The childrens' insurance policies are already taken care of so we don't have to worry about that. Essentially all the financial perks of being married aren't there. We were both married previously and the only thing either marriage yielded was a lot of heart break and headache, not to mention ridiculous lawyers' fees. We are pretty much doing everything that a married couple does in every way except for signing a piece of paper and telling the court that it's official. I even do our taxes and budgeting while he does the laundry, dishes, cares for the kids, and vacuums the floors, haha. He proposed to me in a very sentimental and emotional way with a gorgeous traditional ring and there is nothing in our life that suggests this will be one of those disintigrating relationships that ends up torturing us down the line.
We are both insanely excited to host a wedding celebration for us, our families, and friends in order to commemorate our love for each other. We have both always wanted a huge wedding and now we are planning to do it! We've set a date and picked a venue, picked our colors, found our dress and tux, he's been just as in to Pinterest as I have been (love the guy!!) and already asked our bridesmaids and groomsmen and he and I would love to have my last name changed.
I only have a couple of inquiries: Has anyone else done something like this?? and, Has anyone else ever encountered issues with changing their last name without being married??
People get their names changed all the time for all sorts of reasons so I don't see why it would be a problem but I would like to make sure. Chances are I'm not going to tell the judge it's the final step to our "faux" marriage we are spending $18k on but... yeah.
Any of your input is welcome, bees! I can't find any info online about any similar situations!
Depending on what state you are in, presenting as being married actually makes you common-law husband and wife. I'd look into that for the state you live in. You may find yourselves legally bound even though you don't want to be.
I'd say the other thing i'd do is, if you have joint retirement savings, or ever buy a house together, etc etc is to have legal agreements drawn up that dictate what happens to that $$$ in case of a breakup. Since you don't have marriage laws to help with the division of assets, i'd really recommend that you do that with a lawyer.
Oh, and you'll have to go to court to legally change your name without getting legally married. So, more $$$ there.
Honestly, a DIY divorce costs about $500. I'd rather have the legal protection and not have to pay for contracts/lawyers every time we purchase a home, open new retirement accounts, etc. Plus, if you aren't legally family, hosiptals won't tell you what's going on or give you input into care. There's a lot of legal benefits you may not have considered. Marriage isn't a "piece of paper" to me - it's a legal status that affords many benefits (above and beyond the financial ones)
Not really in a similar situation, but just wanted to say one thing: even though things are fine now, I'd worry a little bit more about when the "in sickness" part comes around There neeeds to be some sort of protection for the two of you when dealing with things like end of life decisions, estates, being able to make legal ageements for one another, etc. I am not sure whether these things can be accomplished without being married, but judging by some stories I've heard about gay widows and widowers being denied these rights with regard to their partners, even when they had been together for decades, I would guess these aren't conferred automatically when you're in a common-law-type situation.
@lochnessy: I'm a little confused... are you getting married? You said he proposed & you're having a huge wedding... but that its $18k & "faux".
It costs money to chang your name ... either with the ceremony or with out it. Why not just wait... have the wedding and change your name then.
I think something might be missing from your post. Are you actually getting married? Or only having a party?
@crayfish: +1
Also, I am totally lost on why you are having a "wedding" if you are not being married. Does everyone else know it is "faux"?
Getting married or not shouldn't be about the financial perks.
Are you actually telling guests that it isn't a wedding? Personally I wouldn't attend unless it was called a committment ceremony.
Isn't that what a wedding is? It's a celebration of committing your life to someone. It's a day to celebrate with all of your friends and family the decision to be together forever, that you're establishing a verbal obligation to love the person you're with always. Why sign a little piece of paper confirming that the two of you will love each other forever? In fact, the beginning of "marriage" wasn't always determined by the legal system whether or not it's recognized. Marriage is defined as an acknowledgement of an intimate relationship between two (or more sometimes) people for legal, social, sexual, emotional, financial, spiritual, and/or religious reasons. Neither of us are religious so it's not like we have to go tell God about it. Emotionally, sexually, financially, and spiritually we've committed ourselves to each other. So all that's left on the list is socially (ie: a great big party... which can still be huge for $18k thankyouverymuch) and legally. We don't care about the legal aspect. Neither of us are very materialistic people and the only thing that would concern me is making medical decisions in the future. Also, to legitimize any potential offspring back when that was considered by the majority to be sinful.
As a follow up question because I'm sincerely curious: For what reason are you getting married if not for the same reason we are?
@canthugallcats: Ouch :P Last I checked, $18k is a lot of green and "faux" was pretty much to be clear about the fact that we're celebrating spending our lives together and not signing a paper for a court to log away.
@lochnessy: Marriage is all those things, but here in America it's also very much a legal thing. Saying it's "just a piece of paper" devalues the fact that at one point, blacks and whites weren't legally allowed to get married. Gay people still aren't fully legally allowed to get married throughout our country. The legality of marriage is very much a strong point of WHY the bond is important and why so many people are fighting for LEGAL marriage equality.
I have so many thoughts for how to go about answering your questions but I think I'll just be rambling if I go any further... so, don't have a "faux" wedding and not tell your guests it isn't real. Either get married and have the wedding, or have the big party and call it a commitment ceremony or something.
I honestly don't care if you want to spend $18k on a party (and I should hope that is enough for a great big party since that exceeds many wedding budgets and even incomes!). I also don't believe marriage is necessary for a commitment, even a lifelong one. I grew up in a home like that. I am well aware if the history of marriage, too.
What I want to know is are you pretending it is a legal wedding aka do your guests know? I am guessing not. Or else it would be called a "celebration of our life together" and not a "huge wedding" as you both always wanted. Because to some people who may be attending to celebrate and support a legal marriage that distinction IS important.
Why sign the piece of paper?
For the ability to make medical decisions for each other. So that we are each others legal heirs in case one of us dies without a will. For survivor's benefits if one of us predeceases the other. To make the name change process easier. So we can file taxes jointly. So we are each protected if our financial situation changes between marriage and (knock on wood, God forbid) divorce. So that he is legally presumed to be the father of any children we have together. To make it easier to buy a house together or make other large financial decisions together. So I could visit him in the hospital if he is sick. And so that I can call him my husband, and be his wife.
My fiance and I already have most of the same "perks" you do, but we are missing one that we want... visitation rights and end-of-life decisions! Courts can override any drawn-up agreements if the parents or siblings contest them. Also, the ability to inherit anything belonging to the other without estate tax. Yeah, it probably won't come into play for a long time, but you never know! There are also some nitpicky things like not being called to testify against one's spouse in court that I imagine I'll never have to deal with, but want there just in case, because that's part of what my interpretation of marriage is.
And be careful if you ever move to a state that recognizes common law marriage, because if you become common-law married in that state you will still have to get a real divorce if you separate. Shouldn't be a problem if you continue living in Missouri though.
In the end though I think it's silly to call it "marriage" if it's neither legal nor religious. That's not marriage - it's a partnership. I wouldn't call him your husband, but your life partner. It just seems very silly to me.
@crayfish: We do have retirement savings but they are established apart from each other so that's not an issue. I've had a retirement fund opened since I was 18 and he has since he was 20. It's silly to the both of us that the other person needs to be entitled to whatever the other has been working to save their whole working life. We're not petty people when it comes to material things as we have proved to each other by holding each other's hands through the divorces from our first spouses who we have actually remained friends with.
Homes can always be bought by parties who aren't married. It's considered a joint ownership and both parties are responsible for the home with no additional cost just because there are no nuptuals involved.
It would also cost more money to legally get married AND change your name. The first time around it was $95 for a marriage license and $350 to change my last name. So, technically, sans marriage, I'm saving $95.
If you're marrying someone, you shouldn't be marrying them with the notion that you're most likely going to need to divorce them. A $500 DIY divorce only works if there are no dependents involved and that depends what state the child is a legal resident of.
His parents are extremely reasonable people and he doesn't have any other direct family members aside from them so if he were ever to fall ill they're in the medical field and I trust them to make a decision according to his wishes. I don't have any living family who can be trusted with medical decisions either. Both my parents are deceased and I'm not in contact with my brother. My other distant family members are all overseas so I'm pretty much stranded in America alone >.>
You can also grant anyone you trust with Power of Attorney (though, it would never supercede your concious decision making) and create an Advanced Directive for any medical duress.
Wow. I learned a lot today :)
In 2010, the federal Department of Health and Human Services issued rules that require hospitals participating in Medicaid, the government health program for the poor, and Medicare, the health program for seniors, to allow patients to choose who can visit and how often.
A 2010 DHHS news release said all visitors chosen by a patient or their representative -- including same-sex domestic partners -- are to be given "full and equal" access to patients. The hospitals are required to have written policies on visitation rights.
Those rules went into effect in January 2011. Hospitals that don't conform could be terminated from participating in Medicare and Medicaid, according to the Human Rights Campaign.
@distracts: I posted the last bit just for you :) Any hospital that receives any federal funding cannot deny a patient from seeing whomever they want. In fact, most updated hospitals ask you to heavily consider having an advanced directive which could be detailed however you want!
If you are changing your name by application to the court, and the reason is not marriage/divorce you usually have to swear an affidavit or something as to WHY you are doing it. I would not recommend withholding the truth from the court in what is sworn evidence if the truth is that it is a "lead up" to your "faux wedding". You need to check into what your state requires in particular.
By the way, even if you married, you aren't usually entitled to pre-acquired property anyway. Like what you have saved in a retirement fund before marriage. Depends where you are, but division usually applies only to after-acquired property (or if you mix property/transfer it to shared property). And, pre-nups can also address a lot of this.
Like I said, I certainly think you are free to do as you wish. My husband and I have all the commitments to each other you described as well, and the only difference is we did choose to do it legally as well. This was our choice but it certainly was not necessary for us actually to be committed as life partners, that came before and independent of marriage. But if you really are confident in your choice be honest with people, court and guests alike.
@RayKay: This is true and I'll admit the name change was a silly jest on my part.
We don't have enough property for a pre-nup though I wish we did! And no chance of us winning the lottery either, since we dont play! Haha.
@j_jaye: That seems awfully mean... I mean, what if it was your close friend? You'd skip out on supporting their commitment because of legalities? Is that really what a wedding is about?
To OP, I'd recommend sitting down with a lawyer to make sure you have division of assets (in the event of a split) and "next of kin" stuff taken care of, and to sort out the "common law" issue.... but seriously more power to you! Don't call it anything you don't want to. No need to get the government involved in YOUR commitment if you don't feel like it.
I seriously don't get why so many people on here give a hoot if the beautiful wedding they witness is legal or not, when it's whats in the participants' hearts that matters.
There are definitely legal papers for health/medical emergencies and you can assign the responsibility to anyone. My parents have two documents for each of them, financial and medical, if they are unable to make decisions for themselves. They had them drawn up with a lawyer and then my dad called and told me about it and where they were. The documents have official names, I just don't recall them at the moment.
He also has an excel spreadsheet of all his passwords (he handles finances) and I have the password to it, which was super helpful when he was sick for weeks a couple years ago.
As far as the main point of the post: If I were you I'd rock a commintment ceremony, it's not a wedding so I wouldn't call it one if I were doing it. I'm literal and technical tho so that's me. Do what you want, just understand you're likely to confuse people along the way and have to explain a lot.
@RayKay: I respectfully disagree. I think you are looping marriage and weddings into being the same thing. If that were the case, couples who elope are doing it wrong because they are leaving out the entire wedding portion. The wedding is the celebration part. Marriage is the legal part. A celebration is all a wedding is. I am professing in front of all of our guests that I am pledging my life to this man forever and I don't see how that is any less important just because it doesn't have the legalities.
So, if we truly love each other and already have our home, children, finances, movie nights, chore load, tickle fights, hugs and kisses together, why should we segregate ourselves from being able to say "You are cordially invited to celebrate the promising of two hearts to one another"...?
My honey and I did discuss what to do with our estates when we get all old and decrepit and we did come to the agreement that if it gets to the point where it looks like one of us is going to kick we can make it legal.
Yes, but do your guests know that you are actually not getting married?
Also how can you call each other fiance if you are not getting married? How can you say he proposed? A proposal is one person asking the other to marry them. I mean if you love this person and want to spend the rest of your life with them, why wouldn't you marry them? This whole fake wedding, avoiding making it "legal" just seems a lot more confusing.
@Bebealways: Yes if they were lying to me about it. Because you know friends don't lie to each other.
@lochnessy: Wedding noun- A marriage ceremony, esp. considered as including the associated celebrations.
A party or celebration is the word you are looking for.
@j_jaye: But a wedding is just a ceremony. It's not a lie... it's just only a spiritual wedding, not a legal wedding. If someone feels comfortable enough to share something like that it's great, but it seems like a pretty personal distinction.
Do you get upset at same-sex couples calling their ceremony a wedding in states where it's not legal?
@Bebealways: I just think the guests should know. I would feel like the couple was trying to deceive everyone.
And the difference with the same sex couple is that they legally cannot marry but still want to call it a wedding. The OP CAN legally marry but doesn't want to, but still wants to call it a wedding.
Don't forget - your man may not always have the same job. I think its just weird, you're lying to everyone, your family and friends about getting married and being married. Are there any disadvantages to actually being married that aren't related to divorce?
@Bebealways: No because they don't have the choice and can't legally have the wedding that they want.
Everyone obviously has a different definition as to what a wedding is. I choose to go by the legal definition and would be offended if if you lied to me about not getting legally married. I feel the same way if you get married prior to your celebration and then not tell and let me think I am coming to a wedding.
To me it is kind of like throwing yourself a birthday party six months before/after your birthday or having a baptisim but not actually getting baptised.
I am sooo confused.
But, from what I have gathered.. What is wrong with legally getting married? When you already have all the perks, are wanting to change your name, and are actually hosting something you are calling a wedding?
I'm sorry, I may have missed the point. But if a little piece of paper that gets logged in a court somewhere makes your situation a lot easier, what's the big deal about legalising?
Let me preface by saying I believe that you are completely free to do whatever you want to do in terms of your ceremony and lifestyle choice. This post isn't about that.
I'm confused as to why you'd be willing to go through so much extra legal wrangling to get all of the LEGAL benefits of being married just to avoid being legally married. It seems like a whole lot of extra trouble and fees down the road for something that can be done in one fell swoop.
In terms of the hospital visitations and whatnot, that's all well and good for the times when you or your SO are conscious and can make decisions about who gets to visit. What about in times of serious accidents? You may not be allowed to see him or find out ANYTHING about his status if you haven't done the power of attorney or don't have proof of it. In fact, since your family are all out of the country, it actually affects him more than you since his family would be able to tell the medical authorities that you're "allowed." You just stated you don't have anybody that can do that. If you're in an accident or medical situation that requires some quick decisions, your SO would not be in a position to legally do so. Just some food for thought.
@Mrs. Fireworks: +1. Please stop calling it just a piece of paper. It was just a little over 40 years ago that I would not have been able to marry my FI because I'm not white, and he is. Even without that added consciousness, it's meaningful to many people anyway. How would you like it if I called your ceremony a "meaningless party"? Again, food for thought.
@littlemisssally: +1...
Why not just get married then (i'm talking legally)?
OP - your entire argument is basically saying that you do not really need to get married because you are essentially living as a married couple. So my question is, if that is the case then why not just sign the piece of paper? Why exactly are you so against legalising your union?
Your situation is the complete opposite of so many brides on these boards. Many brides are willing to forgo all the celebration and tradition to "just get that piece of paper."
So, let me preface this by saying that I totally get the idea of not wanting to be legally married. My parents have been together for over 25 years, my entire life span and then some, without ever getting married. My father at one time proposed to my mother, but they both came from families with really terrible divorces and my mother really felt that she did not ever want to get married. Now that they are getting a little bit older and have had some health scares, my mom is considering getting married to assure that there are the proper legal protections in place. But their situation is a bit different from yours in that there are many immediate family members around to vouch that they should be able to see each other in the event of an emergency.
I guess what really throws me off about this is that my mom really was coming from a place of paranoia when she made this decision, and so there are legal reasons why she doesn't really want to get married. For one, she was concerned about her children being taken away from her. My father is not on my birth certificate and has no legal rights over me or my siblings. However, in your situation, it seems like you are willing to go out of your way to have all of the legal rammifications of marriage without actually getting married.
I guess I'm just trying to understand, because from my perspective, I can totally understand that you don't need a marriage license to have a committed, lifelong relationship. And I understand if you don't want to get married because you are concerned about the legal rammifications of doing so. However, it seems the only reason you don't want to get legally married is because of the potential situation of divorce.
What bothers me is this sense that you are trying to have your cake and eat it too, pardon the cliche. You are free to make your own choices, but unless you can't legally enter into a marriage, which is not your situation, I just don't really see the point of having a wedding that is not in any way legally or spiritually binding. If you don't want to be married, then don't be married. But if you want to be married, then be married. I also don't see what having this big ceremony would change. You've said yourself that you're living essentially as a married couple, so literally nothing will change by having this wedding.
I just really think you should save yourself the time and effort. I feel like a lot of guests, especially those who give gifts, might be really hurt and confused when you try to explain the situation to them. It's kind of like if you were invited to a birthday party and you brought a really nice present, but then you find it out wasn't even the person's birthday, they just wanted to throw themselves a party.
So kind of working through my thoughts here, I guess that's the conclusion that I come to. Without any legal, spiritual, or social change associated with getting married, I just kind of feel like this comes across as being kind of self-centered. "Well, we don't really want to be married or have a legal commitment, because that might be inconvenient down the line, but it was a handy excuse to throw ourselves an extravagant party."
I understand that this is totally unsolicited, but I just wanted to try to maybe provide perspective of how others might perceive this event. I thought it might be helpful to hear from someone who really has grown up with the perspective that marriage is not necessary for a long and lasting relationship. I don't have the reaction of, "OMG why WOULDN'T you want to get MARRIED?!" But I still don't really "get" your situation.
@lochnessy: I respectfully disagree I am confusing a wedding and marriage at all. A wedding is a ceremony where couples are united in the institution of marriage and it has nothing to do with a party. It does not matter if it is with a justice of the peace and two guests and no party, or with 1,000 guests and a five-day long party. The party portion is the wedding reception, not the actual wedding ceremony and not at all necessary. A big party is not necessary at all to be married, nor is a big party necessary at all to have a wedding. If you elope, that is still your wedding. You are still married. The marriage is the actual living out of those promises to each other.
As I said, I don't care if you get married or not. My mother and stepfather were together 25 years without marriage (then they did get married and have a small wedding ceremony and have been married since, but I grew up without that at all). They were, and are, best friends, and there for each other through it all. My mother did not want to get married after a bad divorce. However, they were, and are, also protected in part after some years when legislation came in by common law provisions. They got married when they found out it was easier to deal with retirement issues if they were (obviously married not just for that but it was the instigator). I never considered marriage a goal or necessary for my life. And definitely not a big wedding (as it is, mine was teeny!).
Ultimately you are going to do what you choose and that is your perogative. Of course I think you should be able to say "You are cordially invited to celebrate the promising of two hearts to one another". What I disagree with is calling it a wedding and presenting it as such. Again, if you feel so comfortable with NOT getting legally married, why not be honest about it? Call it a celebration, a commitment ceremony, a handfasting, a reception in honour of your relationship, whatever else. If you are so against being legally married, I just wonder why not be proud of that choice then and be upfront with all about it. To me it seems in reading your posts like you actually DO want all the legal protections of marriage, and common trappings of a big wedding, and other common traditions some choose like a proposal and a name change but not in actuality. If you fear a divorce or whatever and do not want to actually get married fine, but then it makes little sense to call it nothing but a piece of paper when you are putting on the presentation of getting that piece of paper!
If you fear a divorce, get a pre-nup.
all this cloak-and-daggers nonsense leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. If you have to try this hard to pool people into thinking you're married, then you should know right there that it's a bad idea.
if you're trying to avoid an increase in taxes or an end to your alimony from a previous marriage, it's not going to work, at least not over time, as the fake wedding plus the name change would never stand up in court against allegations of you being married.
have your wedding but do it the right way. Don't be so dishonest. It's a really bad example for your kids, and just generally not nice.
We are pretty much doing everything that a married couple does in every way except for signing a piece of paper and telling the court that it's official
Nope. "Signing a piece of paper" is what tells the court that it's official, that's what makes you married in the US. Doing each other's taxes and vacuuming doesn't make you married. Changing your name to Lochnessy Hislastname doesn't make you married and won't get you any tax/insurance benefits if you do that. You need to have a marriage license to be legally married.
ETA: I have changed my last name before and needed a lawyer to do it. This part isn't hard, but it seems like you're trying to change your last name so you trick the government into thinking you're married, and therefore getting the tax benefits of being married.
I've never changed my name other than after getting married/divorced, so I can't help you out there. I would assume that wanting the same name as your children would be a sufficiant explination in most cases if worded diplomatically. I can say, though, that I understand that there are circumstances in which it is better, legally, to not get married. My grandfather could never marry the girlfriend he met after my grandmother died (thank God for that, I can't imagine being "related" to that woman). It would have meant a lot of unintended consequences financially and neither one of them could afford it. Now, these circumstances probably don't apply to you, but there is obviously something going on and that's your business.
As far as telling your guests, that's also your business. I wouldn't care if it's a "real" wedding or not. Despite what other people think, this is no different from a same-sex wedding in states that don't recognize it. I know this is not a popular opinion around here, but a wedding is just a big party that may (or may not) involve a legal process. Hell, up until we got the marriage certificate back we weren't entirely sure that our marriage was legal. Our officiant was ordained online which is tough to do in our state. We still went on with the party and if the application was rejected that we'd just have the judge do it on our next day off.
@Sugaree: "As far as telling your guests, that's also your business. I wouldn't care if it's a "real" wedding or not. Despite what other pepole think, this is no different from a same-sex wedding in states that don't recognize it."
I have to respectfully disagree, because the OP's intent is quite different to the intent of a same-sex couple uniting in a state that does not allow same-sex weddings. If questioned, I'd reckon those same-sex couples would be forthcoming about the state not legally recognizing their marriage--- assuming they even hid this fact from their guests. By comparison, the OP is going to great lengths to conceal her true marital status, going so far as to change her name and make legal agreements regarding end-of-life decisions. The same-sex couple in your example is, in the vast majority of cases, not hiding anything; the OP's efforts to obscure the facts can be interpreted as an intent to mislead, and any same-sex couple who made similar efforts to conceal their intent and true marital status would be acting just as shady, at least in my opinion.
Whether or not you truly wish to decieve your friends, loved ones, and the courts is irrelevant, because once you've given that impression, the damage is done.
I don't see what the problem is here, OP. I was the maid of honor in a wedding in November where the couple had already gotten married in a courthouse a few weeks before the ceremony. They were getting married out of state, and due to the waiting period for a marriage license, would have had to make a special trip just to get the paperwork. Instead, they "legally" married in their home state before the wedding. It didn't make the wedding any less beautiful or special. For all I know, this could have been the case at every wedding I've been to in my life - I pay a lot more attention to the emotional vows the couple recites to each other than making sure all the legal documents are in order. I just wouldn't go around telling people "JK, we're not really married!" In that case I might feel a bit taken in.
You must log in to post.
| User | Posts Today |
|---|---|
| MrsPanda99 | 64 |
| Laurenplusalex | 50 |
| lia | 48 |
 mrsSonthebeach |
48 |
| weddingbound | 47 |
| pengoala | 45 |
| badabing88 | 42 |
| joya_aspera | 41 |
| julies1949 | 40 |
| TaurianDoll | 37 |
| User | Posts Today |
|---|---|
| s2bmrscook | 3 |
| Soon2BmrsJ | 2 |
| figgnewton | 2 |
| Kir32 | 2 |
| kay01 | 1 |
| deetroitwhat | 1 |
| Atalanta | 1 |
| FauxBoho | 1 |
| X0JLYNN03 | 1 |
| EastMeetsBarn | 1 |
