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Are you happy with the rules here? Including the warning / banning policy? If not, what would you like to see change?
Not sure what rules you're talking about -- the one against vendor self-promotion? Or any self-promotion (including users posting their own blogs)? Because I'm totally in favor of those rules!
I am a pro-photographer, FYI.
BeeM wasn't just banned because of self-promotion, from what I understand it was her tone and attitude.
I removed my comment to danicalifornia, since I'm not a pro nor a photog :-D
Well, I know I'm not a pro, but since it is fairly clear what this was about... I think the person in question did what she did in a manner that was abrasive and mean. There are plenty of other pro photographers who explain, in much kinder ways, that yes, they have seen many a horror story about not using someone who knows what they are doing for their wedding and highly suggest a photographer who has done something other than poorly shoot and photoshop a few pictures of friends.
I think it totally has to do with HOW you say what you are saying, not always what you say. You can phrase something one way and come off an elitist jerk, and phrase the same thing a little differently and come off like someone who actually is trying to be helpful.
@bunny: Basically
We ARE allowed to use our business name as a username - I disagree with this
We ARE not allowed to promote business, link websites, or post images - I agree with this
We are not allowed to saying anything that promotes the use of a professional photographer or us as a professional. Like we can't say, I'd go with a pro over your uncle. We can't say, even if asked, I offer a 2 week turnaround, and a preplanning meeting to give an example,etc,etc. - I disagree with this.
The point is someone CAN be banned for any of these things, whether they were rude, mean, nasty, or not. The point that someone may of been banned for other reasons, it not relevant in this post.
@USER876: Like the PP's said, BeeM wasn't banned because she was trying to give helpful suggestions, from a professionals view point. She was banned because of her poor choice in words.
Again, this post has nothing to do with that......so please reread the OP.
+1 Are you kidding? You seem to have a personal vendetta against pro's, by evidence that you seek and wait for opportunites to jump in where ever you can and bash.
@USER876: If it makes you feel any better, I think, generally, you are one of the pros who comes off as helpful and not an elitist snob. Though I think anyone with a brain can see this is related to the event of yesterday with the pro being banned.
I think you would be better off asking the pros through a PM. This is only going to cause more problems.
@LoveMySailor1018: This has nothing to do with what happened yesterday, but ALL to do with some of the new rules that most of us where not aware of. LB even agreed. This is certainly in way pot stirring. I want to get other pro's views.
The new rules make no sense to me, you can't advertise but you can have your user name XYZ photography? HUH? And now, we can't even recommend a professional service, lab, or anything else. So why are we here? It would be better if we were all incognito with no mention of being a vendor....at least people would be able to get sound advice that they ask for.
I feel these policy's need to be reviewed, and redesigned, just seeing who else agree's. I don't want to get banned the next time I say that XYZ lab is better than snapfish.
I am not a pro-photographer, but personally, I really like having the pro's around the 'bee. I think it would be neat if the pro's had a different standing - instead of "member" maybe "pro" so you wouldn't have to continue to say you are a pro. I totally agree that you should be able to use examples of your business and experience, as long as you aren't self-promoting your company. I have received photo advice and never once had someone say to me - use my business. I also think that your advice needs be tactful. I read BeeM's comment and thought it was rude. Fact is, though, that not everyone can afford a photag and that is ok. Weddings are about joining two people together, not about material things and what kind of photography you have.
Again this post has nothign to do with BEEM.
This post only will cause more problems vs a PM if people let it. I asked an honest question to fellow pro's and am seeking honest answers. I can't control what other people respond with, even though I never asked their opinion. People are quick to complain when the pro's give unsolicited advice, but when others do, it's ok. I don't believe I addressed this post to anyone else but the fellow pro's.
I am a pro wedding photographer, and i personally dont really think this is the place to come to tout my business. Has any of you seen or heard me say i am photographer, or seen me advertise in any way? no, because i come here for advice as a bride.
If someone asked a specific question that i could answer AS a photographer, then of course i would answer with as much knowledge as i could, so does that make me promoting my business or suggesting you go with a PRO? i didnt think so. its just an informed answer on a forum.
I am sure there are caterers, bakers and dressmakers also in WB, and i am sure they answer questions from people that just want to know the answer to a question.
@USER876: You addressed pros on an open fourm full of MOSTLY non-pros... you can't have exspected anything different.
@USER876:I completely understand this post has nothing to do with BeeM...I was simply using her as an example. I was trying to agree with you, from a member's standpoint, but the only thing you took from my post was that I referred to BeeM. Sorry for trying to help.
If anyone has any ideas of how to improve the site (ie coffeegal's idea of adding "pro" rather than member under the user name) please feel free to post them in the ideas section at the top left of the screen over the bride's head :)
@USER876: As they are the recipients of the pro advice, you might more strongly consider the opinions of non-pro members.
@USER876: I'm not a pro but I will answer your question. I don't get some of the rules. The one that says you should go with a 'pro instead of a friendor or amateur etc does not make sense in my opinion. So if I (a non pro) says it, it's okay. But if you a pro says it, then it's not okay and you may be banned?? Huh?? I know that you guys validated some of the stuff my photog told me. I.e., going with mpix, the best labs to use. The best resolutions to use. Helped me pick my photographer and told me technical ways that made her stand out of the rest. I honestly don't get some of the rules myself. I think the only reason this seems a bit more blatant is that there are a lot of emotions roiling during a wedding and honestly, photos seems to bring out the most angst in brides too. FWIW, I love the photographers on the bee. I find them very very helpful and I will keep saying it, you guys helped me a lot in picking my photographer and I was very very happy with the result. I've seen so much help from pros on the bee and I'm sure a lot of bees who hang out on the photo boards agree with me. Yes there is a pro slant from pros but I don't think it's because they are pros (since they don't advertize) but more because there are way too many horror stories about other photogs and they are trying to prewarn bees on what to expect.
It shouldn't matter - pro, non-pro. We're all part of this community and we all are entitled to our opinions on certain rules.
@coffeegal85: I mistakenly addressed that post to you, it was meant for the above poster. I'm sorry.
@chasesgirl: this makes no sense to me
@Vintage-me: Thenew rules say we can't promote our industry in anyway. (not our business but the industry.)
For what it's worth, I can't imagine the loss if the rules are so restrictive that pros withhold input for fear of flagging or banning.
Ridiculous jobsworths must have made the rules.
OK, so lets not talk about where to buy the best wedding dress, or cake designs, or favours, or lets not even promote honeymoon destinations.....
wait a minute........why would we be here at all then?
I have learned so much from the Bees on here, and given certain things the swerve because of advice i have been given, things that could have been costly mistakes, but was avoided by Bees that had been there and done that. invaluable advice might i say.
@USER876: What I was saying that, this is a wedding fourm, most of the people on here just aren't pros. We wouldnt be on here if we were. So I'm not sure how when you make a post on this public fourm that is directed at such a small percent of the group, that you can exspect there to just be answers from the tiny fraction of the group when everyone and their dog can see it, and obviously has an opinion on it.
@USER876: ?? I am so confused. Even one of the hostess' said on another post that one can suggest things, specifically, as long as it is not YOUR shop or YOUR business. So I don't see where the issue is?
@USER876: Maybe it would be more productive to use the system in place to suggest changes or contact the mods directly with your concerns? To be honest, this thread is a bit off-putting, although you're understandably frustrated at the moment. I imagine other pros who share your concern will PM you and collectively you can take your input to the mods. I hope you find a resolution b/c I value the pro input!
@jjmomma: I think we need the "power" of the open forum for this. I've directed things to the management in the past and have not even gotten a response.
@USER876: Perhaps I can attempt to clear this up because I feel like there's some confusion as to the vendor rules. I think you are referring to this section which states that vendors may not:
ii. Post to the boards to promote their website or businesses (including using signature lines, watermarked photos, or posting links to their business or blog, including in the monthly Share Your Blogs thread) or industry (e.g. a planner posting about how hiring a wedding planner essential to the success of a wedding, or a DJ trash talking iPod receptions).
This means:
We certainly have had plenty of valuable input from professionals here on the site where they've given fantastic feedback and support. In all posts here on WB we foster a positive, constructive environment. Any comments that are made that are disparaging, snarky, or criticize other members wedding, nesting, or waiting choices are against the TOS, plain and simple.
@USER876: I hear your frustration. And I see it on other threads today. Stay level-headed... and if you want the power of the open forum, don't be quick to exclude those who may weigh in with you.
I think as long you don't suggest your business and aren't RUDE about someone else's choice in said industry, no one will flag you and you won't be banned.
I like the advice the pros give. That's what you want when you're thinking about spending serious money on whatever. But when you get a rude obnoxious response about something you have decided to do, then that is crossing the line.
You know who crossed the line and was banned for it. You can say all you want that this isn't about a certain someone's banning. But it is. I mean you are still here and other pros are still here so you must be following the rules.
Please continue to give advice, but if I decide to go with a friendor don't tell me my pictures will be crappy and insult me. That is crossing the line.
@bRooklynRocks: very much agreed :)
And I too, think that if they want, the pros should be able to say "Pro" or the likes under their name. Then people can have that knowledge and use it or leave it.
I for one liked knowing that anytime I posted a photog-related thread, User and BeeM would almost always pop in. Whether or not I liked or took their advice was one thing, but knowing I would get it is another.
@bakerella: So if a post is asking "should I go with my friend or a professional photographer?" then a prof bee can't reply "go with the prof, IMO"? (Even if not mentioning their business?)
@jjmomma: exactly, despite what people may think, BEEM was banned for self promotion, but I am not getting into that...period. It has all of us scared, and many of the pro's PMed me about this. Why do you think LB said in her other post, she will probably be banned soon.....
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