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So, let me see if I understand correctly. You're thinking about not having sex with him as often b/c he screwed up his financial situation and might not be able to proposed to you by your timeline? If that's your plan, I have a feeling it's going to backfire quite a bit.
Marriage is about sticking by each other for richer or POORER. He came to you with a problem (kudos to him) and you helped him out by putting him on a budget that he's now sticking to. That's what marriage is about. Not withholding sex b/c you aren't going to get what you want when you want.
@2PeasinaPod: I agree, marriage is for the long haul, not when it's easy or convenient. If this is causing that much strife, maybe the two of you need to step back and take it slower (i.e., not get engaged just because there's a timeline). Yes, its upsetting to realize he has more debt that you thought, but money isn't everything.
Maybe you should both sit down and go over your finances in detail. Before FI and I moved in together, we pulled out bank statements, credit card statements, student loan statements, investments, insurance papers...basically any liabilities and assets we had, we discussed. You should be aware of what you're getting into.
@2PeasinaPod: I think she is saying its affecting her libido and desire, not that she is thinking of using sex as a weapon.
i would be upset too. Its not necessarly that he cant propose on time, its that he has let himself get into debt. That means that down the road, say when you have a baby to deal with, will he be spending the money for diapers on his hobby instead?
Thats what i would be concerned with. Just basic paying the bills kind of stuff.
I would tell him honestly how you feel. And use I alot. Say 'i dont feel as secure anymore knowing there is debt to deal with" instead of "you cant handle your finances and its making me uncorforable"
The fact that he currently has a budget is good. Do you think he will keep it? Do you kow for sure he wont get another line of credit to finance his hobby? I guess what Im asking is, has he REALLY learned a lesson?
Ive dated a few guys who were pretty bad with money. I am pretty good with money and also need to know potential mates are also, or are at least willing to allow me to be the lead with regards to money stuff if we get serious; so I brought it up whenever I thought a bf was irresponsible. They were ALL very open to help if I couched it correctly. 1 boyfriend even let me control all of his finances after he wasnt able to pay rent one month.
Obviously, I think you should bring some solutions up. Would he be open to you helping him clean up the mess? I dont know him or your relationship, but I think the key here is bringing it up correctly. Act like this problem belongs to both of you and that you plan on facing his debt and the need to save for a ring as a team. No blame. No emotion. Just lay things out factually.
Re: sex. Be as honest as possible. I am the same way.... when I dont feel emotionally close there is no way I can get in the mood. I may be wrong, but it sounds like you are scared there is no possibility for a future. Maybe scared that this lack of good money management will bite you in the butt if you get engaged?
I would seriously be more worried that he would rack up that debt that if he could propose. I coudlnt be with someone that financially irresponsible.
@Beautiful Bluegrass: I think he will stick to the budget. The great thing is he has already allowed me to pretty much manage his finances for him. Complete transparency...he's given me all the passwords to his accounts, and also gave me all of his credit cards. So he is trying and he does want to do better. But all of this happened AFTER I learned about the debt, so I'm happy he's willing to work on it but mad he got into this situation. And also mad that this whole time he knew he was doing this, but living like everything was OK.
I like your suggestions on the approach to take to offer solutions. I think I try to do this, but I'm not always successful at it and I probably do more blaming than I should. But I WANT to approach it as a problem that belongs to both of us. I'll focus more on this.
You're right about the concerns re: sex. I'm definitely not trying to withhold it. I want to want it, but my emotions do affect my libido unfortunately. This I hope to get over soon. And what would help me get over it would be a solution to the debt we can both agree to, and getting back on track regarding our engagement timeline.
I completely understand where you are coming from. My first husband was a complete financial idiot. I mean this man hemorrhaged cash. Maxed out a $10,000 credit card in less than a year.
In the beginning of our relationship, it wasn't too bad. He'd told me that he was bad with money and told me to take over the finances. It was kind of annoying, but it offered some degree of control and making sure that we would eat. Seriously, when I met him he was eating "fritters" which were essentially deep fried gobs of flour and water. I attributed it to his being a long-time bachelor, but I know better now.
By the end it though it got to the point where he pitched screaming temper tantrums complete with red face and bulging veins whenever I said anything about a budget or told him we didn't have the money for something that he just "had to have right this second." My two-year-old goddaughter had nothing on him. He too had an expensive hobby...it was actually more like a habit.
My advice is if you do get engaged then make sure that whatever marital counceling you get involves some kind of financial counceling. You will need some kind of plan that you can both agree on. In my opinion, the best plan when one person is a saver and the other is a spender is to have three separate accounts: his, hers, and theirs. Household bills are paid out of the combined account and each party has complete control over their personal account.
Waiting is hard, especially when stuff like that comes up. Nobody is perfect, and whether the problem is something little like leaving his socks on the floor or something bigger like debt, the question to ask yourself is always, "Is it worth it?" The happiest marriages are not necessarily the ones with the least problems or trials - they are the ones with the most committment where both people value the other so much that the benefits of the relationship are worth working through anything.
I know waiting is so, so hard. I got disappointed a couple of times before we were engaged, and I felt like it was never going to happen. I am a person who really likes being in control of a situation, so sitting back and letting him control the timing was hard. It ends up though that his timing was perfect. We've been married for 8 months now, and it has been the most beautiful thing I've ever experienced. We needed to go through every minute leading up to our marriage in order to be in a great place to start our life together. So, maybe things that seem like setbacks now will be good for you guys in the long run. It sounds great that he has been diligently sticking to your 2012 budget! That's all you ask for right?
I wouldn't wait till you get engaged to get financial counselling. You're living together, so the time is now.
Can your SO articulate why he got into so mych debt? Being able to articulate what went wrong is a good sign he's learned enough from the experience that it won't happen again.
@moara: Yes, he knows exactly how he accumulated the debt and has pretty up front about it.
Good idea...I may try to arrange some counseling now instead of later.
@kayp23: This is great advice, Appreciate the positive engery and you sharing your experience :) He's definitely worth it, so I'm committed to working through this with him. Just have to get out of this funk!
I agree that financial counseling now is a must. Even though he knows how he got into trouble, he might get the urge to go out and open another credit card with your knowledge and run it up to for this "hobby" of his. I'm not sure what it is but I would worry that he might need counseling since it almost sounds like an addiction to whatever it is that he could charge up a credit card that fast.
As for the engagement, that's a tough one. I personally would want to work on the relationship first before getting a ring in a sham of a relationship.
It sounds like he's doing well with a little guidance from you. You can be frustrated about him making bad financial decisions or you can get over it. We all do stupid things. Sometimes men are just dense. He seems like he's trying to fix the problem. You 2 definately need to discuss financial boundaries for this hobby. I think the timeline is out of the window. If the 2 of you can work through this and he can get this taken care of by budgeting then hopefully that will help soothe some of your fears about marrying someone not financially saavy.
I think all the advice PPs have given is great and I just want to add that I think you should be mad at him for messing up (and more for not coming to you with his problem) and he needs to learn his lesson, but in order to move on you will have to give the reins back to him a little. Obviously he is letting you help him a bit but I think I would want to step back and say hey you messed up, and you are working to fix it and I'm proud of you.
I'm so sorry that you are going through this, and I can totally empathize with your situation. I'm hoping that everything will work out for you and if you ever need an ear, PM me because I totally understand.
Sending love and support your way hun, it'll all work out!
I'm sorry, I honestly don't understand...why would you WANT to be engaged to a guy who runs his credit card debt up? Are you going to deal with all the money when you're married? Are you going to deal with the wedding budget/expenses all on your own? This isn't going to change unless you put your foot down, and maybe not even then. I would be very worried.
@Jenniphyr: Because everyone has flaws, and no one's perfect. He's not the best at managing money but he's great in a million other ways.
Yes, we have discussed that I will manage the money when we're married, and presumably the wedding budget as well. I actually have put my foot down and he is starting to change. I am a little worried, but I also love him and am willing to work with him on this. If I didn't see a willingness to change I wouldn't stay.
And the thing is I WANTED to be engaged to him for a long time before I knew about this, and this doesn't change over night, I am just having to change my approach to the situation.
The other thing is that he's younger than me, so I am also more responsible and experienced with managing finances than he is. There was a time when I ran up my credit card bills too, and I'm blessed enough to have a good job so that I could pay them off!
@Reign14: OK, thank you for helping me understand that. ^.^; Sorry if my post came off as a little harsh...I just honestly didn't understand, and reacted without reading through the other comments as well. I understand that love is blind & it doesn't just "turn off" if something difficult comes up...I just personally don't have a tolerance for financial irresponsibility, so I didn't understand I guess.
Thanks for explaining!
@Jenniphyr: Agreed that his financial irresponsibility should be a red flag.
Financial disagreement/problems are one of the major (if not the major) cause for divorce.
I would put the engagement pressure/timeline on hold and get into some type of financial counseling (Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace Univ. comes to mind), and do a mutual budget together and disclose all your debts. Only after some time of working a budget together and communicating about it, will Reign be able to have some certainty that he's getting his financial act together.
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Damnit! I didn't want waiting to affect me this way, but it's too late.
So, I am a bit nervous that my SO will not propose within our timeline, which is May of this year or in his words "before summer". I was confident in him meeting the timeline up until a couple of weeks ago when we had a talk about finances. We are planning to pay off some bills and also saving for a vacation (it's actually a destination wedding we are going to) in July. He ended up sharing with me, kind of accidentally, how much credit card debt he has. Well, it's more than I'm comfortable with and more than I ever knew he had. He just got the credit card a year ago and has already run it up! Now I know he has a kind of expensive hobby (that I won't get into), and I know he was spending a lot of money on it, but what I didn't know was that it was causing him to go into the hole! This made me so mad, sad, and worried.
I'm mad that he was so irresponsible and ran up this much debt knowing we have things planned, I'm sad that it will probably delay our engagement, and I'm worried about managing finances with him in the future.
Learning this info has affected me greatly over the past couple of weeks. I have been kind of withdrawn and overly expressing my concern about his financial situation, which is irritating to him (but he can't blame me!). The other thing is that it has kind of made me pull away in the bedroom (sorry if TMI). We live together and I haven't really had an issue up until this point, but I was raised to believe that sex should be between a husband and wife. Now I can't say i've been living by that principle, but my conscience kind of gets to me from time to time. Knowing that he is the man I'll marry helps me not to think about it too much, but now that I know the engagement timeline may be prolonged, it is making me think twice about regularly sleeping with him with the promise of engagement and marriage now at risk due to the financial situation.
*Sigh*
I don't know what to do. Men take that kind of rejection hard, and I don't want to seem as if I'm punishing him. But I feel that he let me down and I can't help my emotional reaction. And he hasn't let me down just yet. I mean, he has at least 4 more months to make something happen....but I foresee him not being able to buy a ring now that he's put himself in such a financial bind. And even if he found a way to get me a ring, I'd feel terrible knowing he spent his money on that instead of paying down his cc debt.
I should also add that we've had a few heart-to-heart conversations about finances and are both on a budget that he has been following wonderfully since the beginning of the year (2012)! And he gets upset that I don't give him credit for this, but I keep thinking about what he did in 2011 to get himself in this predicament and it makes me mad every time I think about it! I know I need to move forward, just struggling a bit.
I know we will work through this, but I'm not sure if I should be the one to bring it up and propose solutions....or let him do it on his own (which could be risky b/c clearly he needs help). I also don't want to change how I act toward him. I love him so much (and he shows me every day that he loves me and is committed to us) and he's been doing really good since the new year, making so many positive changes. This is not the time for me to start acting funny! I really want to get it together so I can support him, and we can move forward. I just need to get past my emotions.
Really just needed to share/vent. Thanks bees. Advice welcomed :)