Post # 1
I am curious as to when people Anti-abortion who are anti-abortion validate an abortion.
Often I hear that Anti-abortioners say it is OK to abort when it comes to rape and incest and other horrific situations.
Basically I don’t get the justification for that. If you are protecting a fetus how can you morally say that a fetus made by rape is any less valuable than a fetus made by horny teenagers (or most any other way for that matter)?
I can understand if the mother’s health is in danger becasue you are saving a life, but in terms of any other situation, I don’t understand the logic.
Post # 3
@Atalanta: I’m not anti-abortion, but I want to take a stab at this question you pose:If you are protecting a fetus how can you morally say that a fetus made by rape is any less valuable than a fetus made by horney teenagers?
When you make the generalization “two horny [sp] teenagers,” you neglect the fact that both people were willing participants in the act. In the case of rape, someone is forced on you and threatens, extorts, or manipulates you into sexual activity that you do not consent to. THAT’s where the difference lies. It’s not to say the fetus is less valuable, but it is the circumstances surrounding the conception that creates a gray area. No one says the fetus is less valuable (really, I work in government and studied political science, and I’ve never heard the argument put that way) – people just look at the circumstances differently.
Also, abortions are not only done because of the actions of “horny teenagers,” and I find this generalization to be ridiculous. According to the most recent census data, here is the breakdown:
Under 15 – 3.1%
15-19 – 18.7%
20-24 – 38.8%
25-29 – 28.7%
30-34 – 18.1%
35-39 – 10.1%
40+ – 3.4%
So, really, your teenager argument doesn’t hold up.
Post # 4
The teenagers thing was an example, I never said that’s the only reason, obviously.
you neglect the fact that both people were willing participants in the act.
That’s what I don’t get, why it should matter how the fetus is made, a fetus is a fetus and if you’re “protecting life” then you shouldn’t pick and choose what life to protect.
I know there are people who believe abortion shouldn’t be allowed ever under any circumstances, and I don’t see the problem with this. To me it’s logical while the other isn’t.
Post # 5
LOL You read way too much into into the teenager sentence.
Post # 6
@Atalanta: To me it matters because the woman who got pregnant didn’t willingly engage in the act. To be honest with you, I don’t understand how a woman can tell a rape victim that she should carry the child of the man who raped her. Will that child get proper pre-natal care? Will the child know love? In some situations, yes, and in others (the majority, I’d guess), the child will feel resentment and anger. The woman had no control over being raped, she could not consent to the activity, but she is still held responsible for the consequences?
Re the teenager line: I get annoyed with blatant false generalizations, so I wanted to cut that off at the pass! There was no need to be characteristics in like age, or level of sexual desires… it could have just read “an unplanned fetus” or something along those lines. Generalizations usually make these arguments get heated, so in hopes of seeing other perspectives, it’s easier to disprove them and move on! 🙂
Post # 7
@Atalanta: I understand exactly what you mean – if it’s about protecting life, why say one life is more important than another? Maybe it’s an accountability thing – you had sex, now deal with the consequences. That’s my best guess.
Post # 8
ill that child get proper pre-natal care? Will the child know love? In some situations, yes, and in others (the majority, I’d guess), the child will feel resentment and anger.
This is true for any pregnancy, wanted or unwanted and not sure what it has to do with the abortion argument. Hypotheticals of the future treatment of children do nothing for argument’s sake.
And I do understand your reasoning, Abbie, I just think it goes against the general argumet against abortion which is: abortion is murder. Ok. But how can you say murder ok in case of (fill in the blank)? It is still murder…
Post # 9
To me, only in cases where the mother’s life is at serious risk in carrying the pregnancy to full term. Its not fair to have chosen for you which life is more valuable.
I don’t necessarily agree with the rape argument although it’s a horrible predicament for anyone to be in, ( and I’m not going to sit here and pretend I know anything about the emotional turmoil tied to that) but at the end of the day my values lie in protecting the sacredness of life at all cost.
Post # 10
@Atalanta: Well, pre-natal care isn’t really about the future treatment of children, but that aside.. we’ll have to agree to disagree. We both have different and reasoned perspectives that are equally valid.
But with your argument of “murder is murder”, are you also in favor convicting people (and sending them to life prison terms) in the case of justifiable homicide? Following your logic, that’s murder too. Say a woman has a gun pointed at her, she wrestles the gun away, and shoots the attacker. He dies. Most courts will rule this justifiable homicide. In your argument, she should go to prison for murder. How do you reconcile this? Do you even feel it’s necessary?
ETA: No snark intended – this is a real question! 🙂
Post # 11
@Atalanta: RE: your comment that abortion is still murder… obviously some people think murder is justifiable in some cases because there is a lot of overlap in people who are pro-life and people who are pro-death penalty. Now I realize that there is a huge difference between those two acts, just to point out that some people are “pro-murder” in SOME circumstances – so there’s one reason rape could be seen as an acceptable condition for an abortion…
I don’t know really, I’m on the other side of the argument so I’m just guessing.
Post # 12
- Wedding: August 2012 - Historic Lougheed House
I draw the line at implantation.
Post # 13
I guess many people would consider me extreme. However, I really can’t justify an abortion in any instance. The only exception might be in the case of the life of the mother being threatened. When a (very pro-life) friend of the family went through that, she carried the fetus as long as she possibly could, then had labor induced early.
Honestly, I’m really not a fan of fertilization techniques that result in embryos left frozen indefinitely, discarded, or having to eliminate “extras” that are implanted either.
Post # 14
Only in cases where the mother’s life is endangered to carry the child to full term
Post # 15
I will never understand why people love to talk about this so much.
Post # 16
For someone who believes that a fetus is a baby, logistics don’t matter. Rape, incest, testing positive for a disability? Doesn’t matter. For my personal life, I believe that a fetus is a uniquely individual life and I don’t have the right to take that life away for any reason. I wouldn’t kill a live baby out of the womb because it was a product of rape or incest, so the same rules apply to my personal unborn children. I absolutely don’t mean to trivialize rape, and anyone can say I have no idea what it’s like, but I do know that my moral conviction on this issue will trump that one. If I honestly hated that child, I would offer it up for adoption.
I don’t support the death penalty for the same reason. FI and I will not personally undergo fertilization treatments in terms of implanation or things like that. (I do take insulin medication to stabilize my hormones, though.)
That said, I do not think anyone else should be legally obligated to believe the way I do. Everyone makes their own opinion on this issue and that’s fine with me! If you get abortions, that is your business and none of mine. We’re all just trying to live life the best we can and hope it works out in the end!