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I will require certain academic standards from my children (the specifics of those are TBD). By academic standards, I mean maintaining grades and courseload - not withholding money based on their choice in major.
They will also have to work to obtain what scholarships they reasonably can - just because I have money saved doesn't mean that they can waste chances to obtain money from other sources besides my bank account. (ETA: They won't be required to win the scholarships - because who can guarentee that? - but they at least must put forth the effort and try).
They will also be expected to not waste their summers. They will be expected to either come home and work or continue taking summer classes or obtain a summer internship related to their desired field. No sitting around and being lazy just because it's summer.
I don't believe in strings. (There is a lifetime of reasoning behind this.) However, I hope I would have raised them well enough that they are responsible, well-adjusted, and reasonably motivated.
I think it is hard to set standards now, because every person/ kid and circumstance are SO different.
I don't believe in "strings", as in an "or else" mentality, but we will have expectations. We will expect our children to pursue and recieve some sort of scholarship and maintain that scholarship. If they are unable to get a scholarship, they may not get to go to the school of their choice. If they lose their scholarship, they may have to help out by getting a loan or working part-time.
We will also expect our children to be able to rationalize and defend their choice of school and degree program. We will support them in whatever they want to pursue, but they need to be able to present us with valid reasons and demonstrate passion.
I think you hit the nail on the head, cbee, that each child and situation is different and we will of course base it off of that. I would never make ultimatums because in the end, we want our children to get college degrees, even if that means they don't perform perfectly or make mistakes along the way. But we will always have high expectations and there will be consequences of bad choices - basically our attitude on parenting in general.
We'll pay for our daughter to go to school, and I may fight my husband on this in 17 years when she's in college, but she gets one fuck-up semester and that's it. You bring home a 1.5 GPA? You have until next semester to improve it. If it's still a 1.5 or, God forbid, LOWER, then she's just riding on my dime to party and waste everyone's time and she can either take out the loans herself to pay or come home and get her head screwed on straight. I knew too many kids in college whose parents were paying their WHOLE way and they had shit GPAs and no job and switched majors every other semester. Waaaaaaste of time.
FI and I have talked about this and agreed that we would have a hard time paying for a kid to get a degree in art/music/english/something that is essentially useless toward a career. If future kid wants to study those things go right ahead, but we can't invest in their doing that, it's a poor financial decision. And if it's really important to future kid, they can double major in something useful.
I know that sounds harsh, but it's reality. I have often said if I was born rich, I would have studied art history. I wasn't, so I have an accounting degree.
My friend's parents have a pretty cool rule that I'll probably uphold as well: We'll pay unless you fail.
So, the parents pay for the semester at registration- but at the end if the child got anything less than "satisfactory" he/she pays for the class(es) they didn't do so well in.
We had this discussion hypothetically and realized that DH and I have different views based on our own circumstances with our paretns. My parents paid my living expenses and any fees that were not covered by scholarships (my tuition was covered by scholarships). I had a job (sometimes mroe than 1) to pay for books, fun money, sorority dues, gas/car and anything else I wanted. His parents covered everything including his car and spending money and he didn't have a job at all aside from an internship required for his program. While we agree on not paying for a kid to fail out of college, I feel it is important to learn to balance a job and be responsible for some of your own expenses where he would like to provide everything if possible in order to allow said student to focus on gettign good grades. I just think it's possible to do both and not realistic to expect that anyone would use the free time they have not working only to study (he also partied).
We had this discussion hypothetically and realized that DH and I have different views based on our own circumstances with our paretns. My parents paid my living expenses and any fees that were not covered by scholarships (my tuition was covered by scholarships). I had a job (sometimes mroe than 1) to pay for books, fun money, sorority dues, gas/car and anything else I wanted. His parents covered everything including his car and spending money and he didn't have a job at all aside from an internship required for his program. While we agree on not paying for a kid to fail out of college, I feel it is important to learn to balance a job and be responsible for some of your own expenses where he would like to provide everything if possible in order to allow said student to focus on gettign good grades. I just think it's possible to do both and not realistic to expect that anyone would use the free time they have not working only to study (he also partied).
ETA: I'm fine with whatever subject as long as said child realizes if they are unemployeed after graduation, I'm not planing to support them forever or pay for a second degree.
We will be paying our child's entire education, but we will probably have similar stipulations to what my dad put in place for me. Any semster I got above a 3.0, he paid for. If I were to fall below a 3.0, I paid. (If I got a 3.0 exactly, he paid) It made me stay on top of it and not party to excess when he held me to it =o)
Edit - for me it wasnt so much an ultimatum from my parents as it was a "dont even think about coasting through college." I graduated near the top of my class in High school and Cum Laude from college, so it wasnt that. It just planted a seed in my mind of "oh shoot..."
We had ours on the '4 years to graduate plan', as we were told in the initial parent meetings at various colleges, that it was a smart thing to do. So many kids screw up in their first year away, and don't graduate on time and extend it into 5-6 years. We also said we'd pay only for undergrad and anything after that they were on their own. We gave a monthly allowance for incidentals, but if they went through it too quickly, they were expected to get some kind of job to cover the rest. It worked great for us!
My parents didn't have stipulations for me because I didn't need them. Regardless of what they demanded I was going to do my best, get good grades, work part time, etc. I hope I raise my kids as well as my parents raised me that I never need to give them an ultimatum because they want to achieve for themselves and not me.
@MissIntent: English? Really? I have UG and grad degrees in lit and it certainly hasn't hurt me.
My parents paid for my tuition as long as I had all A's and B's.. They would let the occasional C slip in (only if it was in one of the few math classes I took.) Math isnt my subject.. but if I didnt have A's and B's bye bye tuition money I had to do it on my own.. therefore I just got good grades lol
@teaadntoast: I am an immigrant and honestly, our mentality when it comes to the arts is skewed...my dad was a theater/lit major and neither he nor my mum ever ever forced any one of us to do anything we didn't want to. However, in my culture, there are very few 'acceptable' degrees. Now, I don't care what you want to study, if you want to study English or Govt or French Lit, just have a plan, don't study it and expect the world to fall on your lap. It would be a bit harder to get a job with a Psy BA than an MBA, that's just the reality of the world that we live in today. Who knows how it will be for our children? FWIW, I am not paying our children's education.
@teaadntoast: Very interesting twist. DH and I have already started a college savings though we are not pregnant yet. We come from two different schools of thought and have discussed this situation.
His parents paid 100% of tuition and room/board. Mine paid 0%. He graduated from undergrad and medical school with ZERO debt. I completed two bachelors degrees (long story) and ended up almost $50,000 in debt.
His academic performance put mine to shame. My DH had said that his parents sacrificed so much to put all three of their children through college that he worked extra hard. Mind you......he was no moron to start out. BUT---his parents did say they would only pay for state university (Rutgers) and if they chose to attend another school, they would have to pay for any difference in tuition. It was also an unspoken rule that they would all maintain at 3.0 average at the very least.
The guidelines used by his parents are similar to the ones we have decided upon for our child. But we will not make it common knowledge that there are funds available for college.
I think my parents had a good way of doing it.
They said to each of us kids "We have $x for your education - if you go to college you can use that money" (and it wasn't enough to cover everything). So they left it up to us to figure out the best use of that money. If we wanted everything paid for we needed to get scholarship, if we wanted to go out of state or more than 4 years, we'd have to take out a loan for the remainder.
I went in-state, had a scholarship, worked as a Resident Assistant (housing and food paid for), and had a job. I double majored and could have graduated a semester earlier - I have no student loan debt. I worked my ass off. However, my little bro will have some debt as he chose not to work and he will be going 6 years.
Personally I think this is the best way to do it because it doesn't tell them what they have to do but if they waste the money then they end up paying for the rest.
I will probably follow what my parents did: they paid for 100% of everything (tuition, room and board, weekly spending allowance), but the minute I fell below a 3.0 they stopped paying. I was able to choose any school in the country to go to but had to maintain good grades. While I took advantage of their offer, in hindsight, I should have picked a more academically focused and challenging school. I probably would have fared better now. My DH on the other hand didn't have options or money for school. He got a full ride for undergrad, lived at home and worked full-time. For his J.D., he took out loans, lived at home and worked full-time (he had to be a part-time evening student to work full time). He is much better off now having worked hard to get where he is. He certainly lead a full life, but understood and valued his education and didn't make stupid mistakes. I don't want my children to want for anything education related, but I also want them to value their studies and understand that money doesn't grow on trees.
"we would have a hard time paying for a kid to get a degree in art/music/english/something that is essentially useless toward a career."
@MissIntent: Wow, that is harsh. I've worked for 11 years at various art and architecture related non-profits, have always supported myself, and I majored *gasp* in Art History. It can be done. I know a ton of English majors who teach, write, work in journalism, etc. Or they take the critical thinking and writing skills they learned and apply it to another field--the English degree (art degree, music degree) doesn't doom you if you are smart and ambitious, which is kind of a requirement to excel in any field.
My parents paid for me to go to community college, but on the condition that I got honor roll each semester. I think that was totally fair of them, and would put teh same restrictions on my kids if I were to have them
We would pay what we could towards our kids' education, but there would be academic standards to be met. We aren't paying for our kids to goof off at school. But...we certainly wouldn't limit their major. I find that's sometimes why kids resent their parents - b/c they aren't supportive in what they want to do in life. Though it might be harder for them to find a career in art or music, it's possible...and I'm not going to be the one to deprive them of that.
My strings for payinf for college is, you must maintain a good GPA. Depending on how they did in school, that will determine what I expect their GPA to be. I won't expect them to have A's if they struggle to learn in general. I'm not going to tell them what degree to get. I'll give advice, but a degree is a degree, so I'll let them go to an accredited college or university. Although I would love my kids to do pro sports, or dancing, or what not, if they can't get a Bachelor's in it, I probably won't pay for it... we'll see what happens, it all depends on the situation.
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I'm hoping that my kids won't need "strings attached" in order to do well in school. It seems kind of like a threat to me, and I plan to raise them to be as self-motivated as possible so that they want to do well for themselves, and not just so mom and dad will continue to fund their education. My parents never set down any rules about how well I had to do in college for them to pay for it, but I worked hard because I wanted to do well for myself, as well as to make them proud, and graduated with a 3.7 gpa. I also plan on helping them to support themselves after they graduate, whether that means helping pay for their rent, getting them a car if they need one, etc.
I do admit, however, that I will have a hard time using their college money for something else if they decide they don't want to go to college and want to do vocational training or start their own business or something. College is a necessity in my book, whether they major in theater or economics.
Tricky question. I do think every kid is different and you don't want to be judge and jury of their future but at the same time I don't want my kids to feel entitled. So applying for scholarships and not screwing around in college is a must. As for deiciding on majors I think I would encourage interships and getting in contact with people about jobs while they're still in high school to try and help encourage a good choice in a major.
@hilsy85: Ah, see. That's where I start backing away. I'll pay $45,000.00 a year for a degree in Underwater Basketweaving if it's what my son or daughter is passionate about, but I probably wouldn't help with rent or a car post graduation unless it was an absolute necessity.
That said, I'm sure it would depend on the kid. My feelings probably too influenced by my ex and his behavior. Mom and dad paid his way through school, then helped with rent, then bought groceries, then.... As a consequence he never learned to live within his means or to save.
For me it was unspoken. I had to get the grades for my parents to subsidize my out-of-state tuition. If I didn't pull my weight I would be required to move home, go to community college, and then re-apply to a local college. I never wanted to do that so I made the grade year after year.
I believe I will do something like this for my child. My FI may have another opinion as he "paid" for everything himself (he had excellent grades and was basically paid to go to college by the state). And he worked jobs for spending money. I have a feeling we'll do some kind of compromise between the way I went to college and the way he did.
Now, when I went to grad school I was on my own. My parents told me they would pay for 4 years -- after that, it's all me!
I will want them to get student loans and basically pay their own way through. Money is never enough to even run a household smoothly, let alone pay for post-sec education with the fees increasing constantly. I do want them to get higher education and I will wholeheartedly focus on building their interest in order to receive this. If they are smart enough, they will vie for scholarships and/or bursaries.
My parents did not provide money for my education and this allowed me to set goals and priorities and work hard all on my own. I had a job and was schooling at the same time. They didn't provide it because they were/are quite poor so I would not even expect them to, however both my brother and I have become really good money and time managers because of this.
We found this to have made us far more efficient and in-tune with 'reality' of the world than if we would have had all the financial help. Sure we did have thoughts in the back of our head all the time about collecting so much debt, but it was the way we looked at it. I.e. we wanted to make sure we can remove that debt asap when we are done and/or during school. And that is what we worked towards.
I guess it's really all in the thinking. If you have your head in the right place, you can overcome any difficulty. That is what I would like my children to learn.
@teaadntoast: Well, I guess I"m thinking of my situation--my parents paid for my rent after college because I went straight to grad school. I worked part time thruout to pay for my living expenses, but I couldn't have managed to live in my own apartment without their help with rent. Could I have lived at home? I suppose I could have, but it would have meant an hour and a half commute on public transportation, with night classes. My parents were willing to help me out, knowing that doing so would make things easier on me. Once I got a full time job, they stopped paying my rent.
As for a car, if my child got a job in a city where a car was needed (aka, not NYC, lol), I would definitely be willing to purchase him or her one if it was necessary in order to get to interviews, jobs, etc. Not saying I would get a Lexus or anything, but a good solid car. I might say that they're reponsible for paying for insurance though (and obviously for gas). maybe I'm biased, because my parents were super supportive of me throughout college and grad school (always depositing a little extra money in my account, etc).
@hilsy85: Yeah, I think I would probably end up doing the same under similar circumstances.
Not really the point, but this thread has made me think about all those little things you can't control with kids. You can try really, really hard to instill certain values (work ethic, self sufficiency, etc.), but at the end of the day some of it's going to come down to personality and ambition and a whole bunch of other things over which parents don't really have much influence.
My parents paid for the actual credit hours and some living expenses. I took loans out for books and fees and extra living expenses. and had a job except for the very first semester. I did not have a car (couldn't afford it- plus cars are actually a hassle on campus). It took me about 10 years to pay off my loan, I had small payments and deffered the first couple of years- I was able to make higher payments as my income grew. My dad constantly tells me how sorry he is I had to take out a loan- but I don't feel bad about it one bit! I think it really helped instill in me the value of my education. I wouldn't change a thing. I've talked to my husband and I think we will follow the same path with our kids. We'll help pay- but they have to contribute and be responsible for funds as well.
Wow.
First off I don't plan on paying All of my future children's way through college.
I have a BFA in the fine arts(painting and sculpture) w a minor in Prof. Writing.
I'm applying to grad schools right now. There are SO many opportunities for someone w a degree in the arts. You can make a lot of money teaching at university levels, work for museums, galleries, art centers, if you're a good writer you can even have an entire job of writing grants For artists. It certainly is hard work and you have to know a lot about networking but it certainly is Not a Bad Investment.
I think some people tend to forget how much arts impact our lives/culture
I see the value of arts, I just don't see those degrees as good investment toward future earnings, and in my mind that is the purpose of college, to prepare you to get a job someday. College is expensive, and all indications are that it is only going to get more expensive (relative to average incomes). You can spend 100k on an engineering degree as easily as you can spend it on the basket weaving one.
I say these things after talking to friends with degrees in some of those fields who tell me that they regret their education choice and wish they had a more employable degree.
And it's not like I'm saying future kid can't study art, I'm just saying that if that's their passion they should prepare to make sacrifices for it, including finding a way to fund it. FI's entire education will be paid for through the GI bill; my parents helped me through undergrad but I will have significant debt from paying for my own graduate program. Those are both options for someone who really wants a particular education. FI and I have also discussed helping kid who really wants a music/art/etc degree by offering to pay for them to double major in a more employable field as well.
@gvsusara: "His academic performance put mine to shame" Hmm...that's kind of the opposite of me & FH. I'm putting myself through Uni (paying for books, fees & tuition; living at home; working a part-time job during school usually 20ish hours a week, and that plus a full-time job in the summer), and his parents are helping him (they're paying all tuition, he's paying for books & fees; he lives at home; and he has a part-time job where he works usually under 10 hours a week, and during the summer he usually works in a full-time job but quits the part-time one). But I have a higher GPA (3.6 versus 2.8-3.2). Not that he doesn't work hard at his schoolwork -- he does, and it's tough stuff! -- but I feel like it's almost a lower priority for him. Now, I don't know for sure that it's 'cause his parents are paying for it, or just because that's how he is, but I do think that it's all based on what that person's attitudes are towards school in general, not just getting a free ride. (Also, I will be graduating with zero debt. I got scholarships for my academic performance, and worked to pay my own way through school. Disclaimer to that though: I'm pretty sure that tuition is higher in the US than in Canada, at least for the "good" schools.)
Yeah, I will have rules for my kids. Oh, there was a thread about this about a month ago. http://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/will-you-pay-for-your-childrens-college-education
I'll copy and paste my response...
As someone who didn't have help from my parents for college because they couldn't afford it, I would like to help my kids with college tuition. I certainly hope they don't have a ton of student loan debt when they finish college, like I did. But I don't see a problem with them have a small percentage of student loan debt. I think it's a good way to hopefully get them to not take advantage of us paying for school and actually do their work in school. My husband had most of his schooling paid for. He had about about a 2-3 thousand that his mother couldn't pay for. His student loan payment are like $50-75 a month. Compared to my $500 a month, I don't think the amount he had was bad at all. Student loan debt is not bad debt like some credit cards are. It can build their credit and get them in the habit of paying for things each month.
My husband and I also agreed that we will raise our kids not to expect that things like college or weddings will be paid by us. We will certainly help out... but also if they don't do well in school, we may decide to cut back on how much we pay in their education. College will be used to experience new things and to learn, but certainly not used to party hard.
That's what I'm going to do. We think that's the best way to go about it. It's not for everyone. Now, if I am able to pay for all of their education, I will but I will still set those rules.
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http://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/are-you-saving-for-your-childrens-education
This thread had me wondering, if you plan to subsidize some or all of your child's education, will there be conditions?
My parents shelled out 100% for tuition (or, in my case, living expenses), but we were expected to meet pre-determined academic standards. No excuses.
A friend of mine was accepted to a prestigious conservatory, but wound up at the state school because her parents thought pursuing a career in the arts was "a waste."
Still other friends had parents who were willing to pay more if the kid attended X, Y or Z school, regardless of how much money had actually been saved.
Anyone else have rules for little Timmy's tuition checks? Or will he be supported, low GPA be damned?