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Spinoff - When should marriage be legal?

posted 5 months ago in Relationships
  • poll: All possible cases of marriage should be allowed, as long as it's between 2 consenting adults
    Yes : (61 votes)
    75 %
    No : (19 votes)
    23 %
    You shouldn't even need *both* to consent : (1 votes)
    1 %
  •  
    1.
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    Bumble bee
    AB Bride    June 25, 2011   Canada

    I was a little surprised by the number of people who said that as long as marriage was between 2 consenting adults, they thought it should be allowed.  This surprised me a little, as I do agree with some restrictions on who can marry who.

     
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    NDBee    March 10, 2012  

    I agree with the family/relation restriction, due to the health risks posed to their possible children and/or family coercion. But other than that, I'm not sure there are other types of 2 person marriage beyond heterosexual and homosexual, unless I'm totally missing something. 

     
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    EleanorRigby    June 2011  

    I think that certain relatives should not get married because this could cause genetic diseases and defects in children, and in some cases may raise some doubts about whether there actually is consent.

    I also think that restrictions on bigamy/polygamy are reasonable for tax/welfare reasons.

     
    4.
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    Bumble bee
    sweetpea87    January 14, 2012  

    Out of curiosity, what restrictions do you agree with? I just think a little perspective or a few different examples might help other posters think about their answers. Most people are probably looking at this as just a gay/straight question.

     
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    UpstateCait    October 7, 2011   Upstate, NY

    Other than incest I see no reason why consenting adults shouldn't be able to marry whomever they choose. 

     
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    pandaboo    March 10, 2012  

    yeah besides gay marriage (in most states) I don't see what marriages are illegal if it's  2 adults.. unless you talking about relatives.. I know here in utah cousins cannot get married unless you're 65 or older.. it's some weird exception like that..

     
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    pandaboo    March 10, 2012  

    I feel if 2 people are 18 and older, and not blood related I feel they should be able to get married.

     
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    NDBee    March 10, 2012  

    @sweetpea87: That's how I took it due to the '2 consenting adults' language. That takes out any discussion of age or multiple partner marriages.

     
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    Bumble bee
    natbug21    March 16, 2012   Destination wedding in New Orleans, LA

    Yeah, incest is the only real problem I see here since the mixing of such similar gene pools has devastating effects on variability.

     
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    Bumble bee
    Boston Bee      

    Incest is the only thing I can think of that I wouldn't agree with.  I'm even okay with polyagmy, as lost as the polygamist only receives the legal benefits of being married once.  That way taxes and property things would still be fair, and people won't benefit from being married more than once.  I think a good system would be where the polygamist assigns rights to a spouse (ex. X spouse gets my social security when I die).

     
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    Bumble bee
    AB Bride    June 25, 2011   Canada

    I brought up incest in the other thread, and so far only one person agreed with me there, but many continued to state that as long as it was between two consent adults it was fine.

    Besides the genetic issues, morally I just have a huge issue with the thought of genetically close relatives marrying each other.

    @NDBee:  I agree, many times relatives marrying each other wouldn't be fully consensual, but sometimes it could be.

     
    12.
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    KatyElle      

    I honestly can't think of many scenarios in which I'd say two people shouldn't get married and have it legally recognized. Incest I suppose, depends on the specifics. Couples with a documented history of domestic violence perhaps, or point them in the right direction for pre marriage counseling before granting them a marriage license. That's really about it.

     
    13.
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    Bumble bee
    AB Bride    June 25, 2011   Canada

    @sweetpea87:  I was thinking in terms of blood relatives, or even non-blood relatives (like 2 step siblings who actually grew up together as siblings).  In the question, I figured people could include polygamy if that's how they took it, or not.

     
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    Lemma    June 9, 2012   Ontario

    @AB Bride: If the marriage was truly between two consenting adult relatives, AND one or both of them was sterile, AND none of their relatives would be scarred for life by it, then I logically don't have a problem with that. There's still a huge ick factor of course, but other people's freedoms shouldn't be restricted just because I find the idea super gross. 

     
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    mwitter80    December 11, 2010   Connecticut

    I think that every adult should have the right to choose who to marry. 

     
    16.
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    Bumble bee
    pandaboo    March 10, 2012  

    @KatyElle: good point about the domestic violence...

     
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    Bumble bee
    AB Bride    June 25, 2011   Canada

    I think the domestic violence is an interesting point as well.  Also, I would be fine if there was some limit on a couple who divorced each other previously, either a time limit before remarrying each other or if they actually got divorced twice that would be it.

     
    18.
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    Bumble bee
    Roe    June 9, 2012   PA

    Although the idea of incest is unsettling, I don't agree with the gene pool argument as it reminds me of of arguments for the sterilization of certain ethnic groups and of people with disabilities. And if you take that out of the equation, it just boils down to the uncomfortable factor within our mores.

     

    So, I have to say yes, between any consenting adults.

     
    19.
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    Lemma    June 9, 2012   Ontario

    @Roe: It's not really the same. Incest is bad because it dramatically increases the chance of harmful recessive traits actually being expressed. One generation of incest is usually not too big a deal, but if it goes on too long, it can lead to a very ill population. Take the royal families of Europe for example. They were quite a sickly bunch as a result of all the intermarriage. Incest is also bad for humanity because it lessens genetic diversity, which reduces our chance of surviving whatever epidemic is next thrown at us. 

    There is quite a difference between sterilizing an entire group of people based on some idea of the perfect human, and discouraging one individual from mating with one specific other individual out of health concerns. 

     
    20.
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    Bumble bee
    Roe    June 9, 2012   PA

    @Lemma:  I didn't say they were the exactly the thing, I said it reminded me of sterilization. My point is that I'm not comfortable drawing a line anywhere when it comes to dictating who can get married/who can have children as it seems like a slippery slope. Perhaps there can be mandatory testing for blood relative couples who want to have children, but I don't think that we can say no, this is illegal.

    I'm personally more comfotable with the idea of having to deal with the genetic implications of allowing it than the sociological implications of forbidding it.

     

    EDIT: Also, there have been arguments for the sterilization of specific people due to a physical disability or low IQ, not just an ethnic group.

     
    21.
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    Busy bee
    Lemma    June 9, 2012   Ontario

    @Roe: It just seems like there are many other options for a blood relative couple than to put their child in danger by having it together. The couple could adopt, or get donor sperm or a donor egg. Restricting the couple's ability to have a biological child together seems like a small thing considering the genetic downsides. 

    If our genetic testing ability is ever good enough to be able to properly test for all harmful interactions, then my answer will change. For the time being, I am in favour of restricting incest that produces a child, the same way that I am in favour of restricting child abuse. 

    EDIT (to answer your edit): I know there have, but were there any serious suggestions of that? Were there any that were made in a serious way in a democratic country?

     
    22.
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    Bumble bee
    Roe    June 9, 2012   PA

    @Lemma: There totally are more, better options. And I certainly wouldn't be advocating for these hypothetical couples to have biological children, but I also wouldn't advocate against their ability to get married (which was the topic we got on a tangent from) or choice to have children if they wanted. (Though I could understand testing and education about the results or something, not sure how you could implement or dictate that.) I think our cultural "ick" factor is so entrenched in the idea of blood relatives marrying, that it would not be a situation that would happen often enough to have a great impact on the gene pool at large.

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure that there have been some cases in the US. I remember learning about it in college, but can't remember specific names. Its sad.

     
    23.
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    Bumble bee
    AB Bride    June 25, 2011   Canada

    Roe, I realize there are people who feel as you do, I'm just surprised that it's as high as 74% on the bee!

     
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    Busy bee
    cubicalmouse    December 17, 2011   Los Angeles

    I think marriage should be allowed between two adults, of no blood relation any greater than twice removed (so that means you can marry your 2nd cousin, but not your 1st). 

    But I do not think polygamy is a good thing in our society, unless there is a population shortage, and the population needs to grow quickly.  The reason is this: guys need women.  And if you have more than one wife per man, pretty soon you're going to run out of women to go around.  (And vice versa with one wife and multiple husbands.) And that's not good for society.  Having one spouse at a time keep the ratio of available men vs available women pretty even.

     
    25.
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    Bumble bee
    Roe    June 9, 2012   PA

    @AB Bride:  Heh, I think most people didn't consider all of the implications of the poll before they answered. ;)

    @cubicalmouse:  Its surprising how many states already allow marriage between first cousins.

     
    26.
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    Helper bee
    LadyBear    September 2, 2012   Alexandria, VA - wedding in NW PA

    @Lemma: While I agree with you on the no close blood relatives reproducing, I wanted to respond to the comments about sterilization.

    There were ABSOLUTELY movements like this in the U.S. Look up eugenics sometime - that's exactly what it was all about. Vermont has some major history in this area, as do some other parts of the U.S. The movement fell into disfavor around WWII because people started to realize it was alot like what the Nazis were trying to do.

     
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    Buzzing bee
    redheadem    September 30, 2012   NYC/MD

    I said no because I don't believe in relatives marrying each other. That's how I read the question. I'm surprised at how many people said yes.

     
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    Busy bee
    strawbabies    December 19, 2011   wedding in St. Augustine, FL

    I answered incorrectly.  I think gay marriage is fine, but don't think relatives should be allowed to marry.  I also don't believe in polygamy.

     

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