Post # 1
Can we talk about why the ‘man that looks like a man’ stereotype wasn’t as offensive/off putting as ‘woman that looks like a woman’ stereotype (if we can even call it that?).
My original, albeit un-posted comment due to last thread deletion:
So…now I’m curious…as we all pretty much had the same reaction to “woman that looks like a woman”.
Why did we not have that same aversion to “man that looks like a man?”
Can someone open a spin off about this? 😛
I hope curiosity won’t kill the cat, because I just want an open and respectful discussion about this intriguing topic.
Post # 3
@Mimoza: Well I think the difference was the options in the man poll were fairly general (i.e. no specific hair/skin color). Plus the man poll options didn’t insinuate eating habits associated with one particular option.
Post # 4
@Mimoza: I think we’re biased because we are women so that maybe felt like a personal attack? I wasn’t really offended though, but found it a funny statement. Women (and men) come in all shapes and sizes and colors. I don’t think gender is all that clear cut and have found androgynous people attractive before as well as trans men and women. Sometimes you look at a person and your body and brain either digs it or doesn’t, and sometimes it hard to pinpoint what exactly your type is.
Post # 5
@housebee: I agree. The poll options were entirely too specific for anyone to offer an answer.
Was that the only problem? I felt like it was much harder for me to come up with an answer for a ‘woman that looks like a woman’ than for the alternate version. Like, I have no problem picturing what the OP of the Man thread meant with ‘manly man’. I can’t picture the woman version though.
Just wondering if that’s just me.
Post # 6
@tmsing: I didn’t feel attacked, TBH. But it brought up certain walls like “what do you mean? what is a woman that looks like a woman exactly??”..Not in a defensive way, but more of like a social culture background.
And I agree with you in terms of attractiveness – I’ve found different types of people attractive that didn’t fit in the category that I described for what I like in guys.
Post # 7
@Mimoza: You know, that’s actually super interesting. 🙂 I think i’s probably because there are less actual, real world instances of “man that looks like a man” thinking causing a man/men to suffer, than there is for “woman that loks like a woman” Particularly when it comes to opportunity.
I.E. I’m not sure how many instances (outside of podunk kinds of places) of a man being denied an educational or career oportunity because he did or did not manscape (perhaps outside of appearance specific fields like the entertainment industry). On the other hand, there is a history of women being denied certain oportunities based on appearance (You’d better pretty up if you want a job, for example) so maybe something like that is the reason why…?
Post # 8
@Mimoza: When I think “womanly” I think of curvy women (full breasts and hips), regardless of their actual size (i.e. petite, full figured, misses, etc). I think I would describe most mainstream models as “girlish,” since they tend to have more of a straight, slim body type. However, I don’t associate a particular skin or hair color to either one.
Post # 9
Eh, I found both polls a bit…off. Not offensive really, but it made assumptions about what it means to be a man or a woman based on gender sterotypes and looks. Which isn’t exactly my favorite thing. I just didn’t comment on the first one because I didn’t want to start some kind of gender expression debate.
Post # 10
I mean… I thought both were ridiculous and the gender essentialism & policing in both were really unfortunate. I think people reacted differently to the women one because 1. We’re women, and 2. The men’s one was more about grooming and styling choices men make, the women’s one was about body type and the whole “real women have curves” bullshit was inherent in its phrasing. It went to something more essential. Also, the choices were really specific and wierd and the “as long as she can cook” option took the gender roles thing to a whole ‘nother unfortunate level.
Post # 11
With the man post, I got out of it more of a “manly man” kind of thing… so she was saying she likes manly men. A manly man, to me, does not wear skinny jeans and spend longer styling his hair than I do! The woman post I think was a little different.
That’s what I got out of it anyway.
Post # 12
@Asia: Grrr that makes me mad, because I know it & you just reminded me of the sh:t that goes on.
And yes, I agree.
Historically there has been big emphasis on how a woman shoud lead her life, her looks, and her place in society so to speak. Whereas there have not been any type of alterations aimed at the male population.
Post # 13
@Asia: These are very good points. I was going to say – we live in a fairly patriarchal society, still to this day, and women still get denied jobs/raises/equal compensation for reasons related to appearance. Whether or not people want to admit it.
Case in point: for many years I wore a buzz cut. At that time I was working (ER nurse) and let me tell you, you absolutely get treated differently if, as a woman, you appear more masculine than feminine. I can say this because now I have longish natural blonde hair, and there is definitely more of an open, friendly demeanor on the part of random people I come across during my day than when I sported the shorn look.
I don’t know that men who “manscape” or whatever come across similar circumstances, but even if they did, they STILL make more than women and have access to certain types of privilege that women often don’t have access to. So I think that might partially address the differences between the responses of the two threads.
Post # 14
@housebee: Ok I get that. So womanly applies to the definition of the actual body parts that separate us from the other gender. And I guess I can agree…because a woman whose features that defy a woman are more prominent, would by definition point to ‘womanly’. I hope I didn’t phrase that wrong, but I do know what you mean.
I never thought hair/skin color or height (and def not cooking skills) had anything to do with what a womanly woman looks like.
Post # 15
- Wedding: August 2013 - Rocky Mountains USA
I think it’s just because the woman poll options were so limited – a tall thin barbie, a big full-figured girl, or something else (redhead?). I mean, random much? That does not cover the full gamut of womanhood in the slightest.
Whereas the man poll covered the whole spectrum – metrosexual, someone who grooms and cares about clothes to some extent, or a standard guy who doesn’t pay much attention to all that.
Post # 16
@Mimoza: I wasn’t offended by either, but I do find your question interesting. I think we have traditional ideas about what a “manly man” is and what a “feminine woman” is. I didn’t follow the “woman who looks like a woman” thread, but when I read the title, I assumed it meant a girly girl (which I am not). I was laughing to myself because I was like, well, I guess my sister looks like a woman and I don’t! I didn’t find it offensive because I know I don’t get my nails done, I don’t care for make-up, etc. I didn’t realize it talked about hair colour and weight :-
One of my brothers is a self-proclaimed metrosexual and we often laugh at his expense 😛 My FI is the burly manly type, yet the two of them are the best of friends. One cares about his appearance to a crazy degree, and one doesn’t. It doesn’t make either less of a man or less masculine, but I think that is just the stereotype that exists. My brother isn’t as tough because he gets his eyebrows waxed (however, eyebrow waxing hurts so that’s pretty tough :P).