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The Texas Textbook Controversy

posted 2 years ago in The Lounge
  • 2 Members Subscribed To Topic
  • poll: Do You Support These Revisions?
    Yes : (13 votes)
    10 %
    No : (123 votes)
    90 %
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    lilyfaith    June 23, 2012   Lakeview, Chicago

    A few of us got to talking about this on another thread. 

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/16/opinion/l16texas.html?scp=3&sq=texas%20textbook&st=cse

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html?scp=1&sq=texas%20textbook&st=cse

     

    Frankly, I think it's a disgusting statement about our education system when history can be so blatantly re-written to suit a certain political agenda. I know "history is written by the winners" and all that, but to take key historical figures like Thomas Jefferson and Teddy Kennedy out of important sections of Social Studies books in favor of characters like Jerry Falwell is just appalling. 

    What do you bees think?

    This affects most of the country, or will in the long run, as Texas in one of the largest textbook manufacturers in the country. 

     
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    jennifer_espos    June 18, 2010   NYC

    Agreed.  I really don't have anything articulate to say about it.  I tend to disagree with most conservative thinking.  I'm not a fan of racists either. 

     
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    MissHelen    November 20, 2010   California

    I'm going to have to echo what jennifer_espos said. It's just....sick.

     
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    Rosie Girl    September 18, 2010   Montana

    I second both! :)

     
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    SweetheartDealer    August 7, 2010   LA/ Wedding in Sonoma, CA

    I think it's BS. There should always be a separation of church and state, and rewriting key elements of history to adapt to what some people think is a more "correct" scenario is awful. Students should be spared political agenda in their educations - they'll experience enough of it from the media. I'm a journalist and a teacher and it's frightening how many things are "cleaned up" in text books already...

    *step off soap box*

     
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    CorgiTales    February 1, 2011  

    I think its disgusting. They should be ashamed of themselves. I could say more (lots more), but it would turn into a very long rant about the "moral majority", republicans, and much of texas.. that would probably get us way off track :)

     
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    hilsy85    September 2010  

    To me, this is just another sad example of bipartisanism/our 2 party system. We need more than 2 parties, so our political system can stop being seen as "either Republican or Democrat"--neither one is perfect! We need to stop pitting them against each other and stop looking at issues in terms of party lines, and start looking at whether a particular bill/vote/etc actually helps the issues at hand. People get so caught up in voting for or against a certain party that they lose sight of what the real issues/solutions are.

     

     
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    charismaclassic    May 29, 2010   Greeneville, TN

    Well said, SweetheartDealer.

     
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    caitlanc    September 12, 2009   Western Slope of Colorado

    Ugh.  I stand no chance of articulating rational points so I'm going to keep my mouth shut except to say that I now have the creeps.  Ugh.  Where'd that sunshine and roses/puppies and kittens thread go?  I feel sick. 

     
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    ejs4y8    June 20, 2009  

    I don't get why they are doing this. Why can't you teach evolution AND the creationism theories in the same class? I know we learned both back in California. BUT, in Missouri, my teacher glazed over them because she said she didn't want to have to deal with it. Not to mention--just because it appears in a book does not mean the teacher actually goes over this.

    I AM on board with what the article said about sociology--teaching people to be responsible for their OWN decisions, not blaming society. But that is a personal philosophy.

    I don't like the idea of important people being omitted, though. Next up you'll have atheists and/or liberals argue that topics regarding the historical significance of, say, Jesus, needs to be removed. I don't know about you guys, but I learned who Buddha was, who Jesus was, etc, and got tidbits on all the other important religious figures as far as history goes. Not theology. In 7th grade.

    How do textbooks get chosen for schools? Does a board pick them? Does a teacher?

    This sounds dangerous to me. I feel like teachers, in general, tend to be more liberal because they are exposed to a very WIDE variety of students, from different cultural backgrounds and lifestyles. I feel like you have to be open minded to be a teacher! 

     
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    hsirrapyesdnil    May 22, 2010   Tennessee

    I teach. I teach inner-city. And I teach history. These books wash out all of the things that might be interesting to my children. If you really feel this way, you need to be politically active about it. The problem is that the only loud people are those people who agree with it, the rest of us have been trained to look away and walk fast quietly when we see something so very beyond description. Who would think that you could just put whatever in a history book.? Truthfully, it reminds me of a practice in Jim Crow south where text books were written to teach African-Americans that the south and the repressive political system was actually good for them. It isn't a big step from these revisions to those. And, if you are thinking that we actually have separation of church and state you aren't paying attention to the healthcare/aborition debate or the small prayer challeges going on in the deep south. The conservative right is knicking away at this separation everyday. If you are really that worried about it, get political. It is the only way to stop it.

     

     
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    andreaandchinelo    09/04/2009   dc

    WOW...I saw a portion of this on the John Stewart Show last night...now I know why during Black History month, kids only learn about the same two characters every year...

     
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    lilyfaith    June 23, 2012   Lakeview, Chicago

    Regarding creationism vs evolution - I think we should teach creationism in religion/history/cultural classes. Anything that studies what people believe. Biology class is a place for biology. 

    Don't even get me started on the stickers they're putting on Bio textbooks - offensive content! Blah. That just gets me so worked up. 

    I have no problem with the conservative politics being taught as well. Jerry Falwell was in my social studies texts in high school, and I found the movement interesting to learn about. But to blatantly take Thomas Jefferson out because his letters showed the intention of creating a separation of church and state completely is just molding history to suit the conservative Texans. They have no right to teach kids their version of history in public schools. 

     
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    hsirrapyesdnil    May 22, 2010   Tennessee

    @ ejs4y6

    Teachers can be on textbook committees, but the problem with Texas is that they drive the market because they buy so many books. My books in Tennessee are a barely revised edition for Texas.

     

    I am actually responsible for teaching about a diverse array of religions. It isn't hard at all. You just create a climate of respect and understanding and you stress that even if it isn't "your individual belief" as a teacher or student,  educated people know about other people. I teach in the Bible-belt, and my students are tested on Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism. I teach them all with no complaints. I also teach about the historical relationship of Judaism, Islam and Christianity, but we don't preach. They have to know that Muhammad is the prophet of Islam, Jesus is the messiah to Christians, and Jews think that the messiah is still to come. Buddha is the originator of Buddhism, etc. It just isn't that hard. As for creationism and evolution, evolution is a theory and even presented alone as a theory it doesn't really challenge creationism. You just have to be able to pass a test. I have noticed that there is increasing pressure to even not teach it at the collegiate level.

     

     
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    Melissabegins    December 12, 2009  

    i think that sometimes we forget that without all of the freedoms that our country provides us that the religious folks might not be able to practice they way they do. So putting all of this clearly religious / politically charged information in PUBLIC school textbooks is just the worst idea. Separation of church and state is best for EVERYONE - I just wish everyone thought so!  Our children need to learn more in school and shouldn't be clouded with all this. We need to improve our education standards to get more competitive on the world stage. We're not going to do that with busted textbooks, that's for sure. And all of these standardized tests! ahhhh. I could ramble for hours.

     
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    monitajb    July 17, 2010   Sacramento

    @ ejs4y8: I'm frankly surprised you learned creationism in school. Was it public? Generally the subject isn't touched because it is explicitly about a god.

    My school's approach was to just not teach evolution at all...in AP Biology. Undecided

    I've never understood the evolution issue, because I grew up Catholic, and Catholics tend to be pro science and very respectful of intellectualism. Catholics recognize that evolution is the best theory out there to explain the diversity of life we see, but believe God was the first mover and created evolution, just as he created gravity.

    But I do remember when I moved to Ohio (Air Force brat) and one of my best friends told me dinosaur bones weren't real, they were tricks from the devil. Sealed

     

    I think the textbook changes suggested are silly.

     
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    bvig    September 2009   wedding in NJ

    Yeah there seems to be a worrisome trend to just change history instead of examine history.  I know that history is never really the whole story but some of this is just crazy.  There's even 'adjustments' being made to the bible in some circles.  It's sad. 

     
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    mrsmdphd    April 17, 2009  

    This is terrifying.  The fact of the matter is that we are starting down a slippery slope, and I don't see an enormous difference between rewriting our own history and those people that try to claim the Holocaust never happened.  It's a fundamental disconnect with reality, a refusal to accept facts and logic, a blind march toward the destruction of the values that, contrary to many of those board members' beliefs, our country was founded on.  And the terrifying part is--there is no one to stop them.  There will not be a more moderate board elected in Texas in the near future, and even if there is, the curriculum will not be re-reviewed for another 10 years.  That's 10 years worth of students who will be taught that there should be no separation between church and state, that the United States is a Christian nation, excluding other faiths, that evolution is simply a theory and has merit equal to creationism.  That's 10 years of students living in an overwhelmingly hispanic state, who will not be taught anything about the remarkable Hispanic leaders and their fight for equality.  That's 10 years of students who will not be taught about the role of Thomas Jefferson's work and writing in the instigation of our own and of the French Revolution.  Because Thomas Jefferson used the phrase "separation of church and state."  I'm sick to my stomach.

     
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    hsirrapyesdnil    May 22, 2010   Tennessee

    @lilyfaith

    I don't want to teach creationsim in history. It blurrs the line of preaching vs. teaching. I don't mind outlining beliefs, but I don't teach the multitude of Native American creation stories, or the Hindu creation story, or the hundreds of others that are out there, and if I did, my very Christain fundamentist parens would be offended. I think that the reason creationism is pushed to be taught in school fundamentally has to do with other people's children. If my kids believe in creationsim, they already know about it, they have been taught anti-evolution ideas and that is fine. It is a parent's right, but I think they push to have it taught in school so that other kids are exposed to these ideas, sometimes even when the other kids parents don't approve. It has a place in a current events class or something specifically related like Bible history, but it isn't for a general classroom.

     
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    Melissabegins    December 12, 2009  

    i agree with your points, mrsmdphd - when you think about the population of the state, it's even worse that it's gone on such a conservative path.  One good thing i'll say about this textbook thing is that it's gotten a LOT of media attention. I hope that the spotlight is on them for the rest of this process. I wonder what outsiders can do in this situation - though I'm not a texas resident or have children, it's very scary that 10 years of children in one of the big states are getting that kind of education. That's a big part of our population that is contributing to electing national figures.

     
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    Opus    December 23, 2011  

    It's sad that the decisions of one small group of people who share a minority viewpoint affect education across the entire country. These revisions are about blatantly pushing an agenda, not furthering education.

    It gives me hope that this was a last minute revision by a school board on the way out. The new board has already been elected, and perhaps they will undo this latest revision. Also, Thomas Jefferson was not completely cut out, just his contribution to the enlightenment movement. What bothers me most about this revision (and hasn't been discussed much) is support for the McCarthy trials, specifically stating that communists were actually trying to undermine the US and thereby giving the trial some justification. 

    As to creationism/evolution, there is very little controversy in biological science, evolution is the accepted theory. Very few scientists will disagree. The controversy is in the public and educational realm, not in the world of science. If alternate theories are to be taught, it should be in the context of religious education. I also object to the the way "theory" is often defined and presented. The scientific definition of theory in no way implies doubt or possibility and is often confused with philosophical or conversational definitions. 

    If you are interested in the subject of re-writing history., there is an excellent book "Lies My Teacher Told Me". It is rather eye-opening. 

     
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    babyboo      

    What kills me is the board member who stated that textbooks have been to "leftist and liberal." Are you kidding me?? Textbooks are insanely moderate, if not leaning to the conservative side as it is! If you think textbooks are liberal then you should go look at a history book and count how many non-male, non-white, non-Americans are in there. We in America are taught that whitebread, Christian, American males made all the significant decisions in America and everyone else worshipped at their feet.

    This change is just going to make the textbooks all the much worse :/

     
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    lilyfaith    June 23, 2012   Lakeview, Chicago

    @mrsmdphd - I agree wholeheartedly with you. I think you said that wonderfully. 

    @hsirrapyesdnil - I agree with you. I guess what I was trying to say is that if creationism is to be taught somewhere in a school, it does not belong in a science class unless there is some crazy new discovery that truly presents (in a scientific, falsifiable way) a possibility of young earth, etc, that lines up along creationism's accepted positions.

    While a broad history or social studies class may not have room for creationism, certainly there are other classes (Bible as Lit, World Religion, etc) that would be a good place for it. 

     
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    teaadntoast    04/23/2010   New York, NY

    @monita - Did we go to the same school?  Our AP Bio teacher barely touched on it..  But I think she liked her 100% pass rate just enough to ensure that we all had at least a vague idea of what was going on.

    What bothers me most, I think, is the blatant misrepresentation of the founders' religious beliefs (or lack thereof).  Some were Christian, true, but most of the big names were pretty much wandering around in atheist or deist territory and viewed organized religion with some suspicion.

     

     

     
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    Kingcake    04/09/2011  

    Creationism and evolution should not be taught in the same class.   Religion (of any kind) should not be taught in public schools.

    ejs4ya: Be careful lumping atheists and liberals together, there are many liberals that are devoutly Christian, and there are many conservatives that still would like to maintain a separation between church and state.  The polarization of liberals and conservatives is a large part of the problem. 

     
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    Jenn23    April 17, 2010   Philly suburbs

    I agree that creationism should NOT be taught in public schools. As I said in the Duggar thread-isn't that what Christian or religious schools (and churches) are for? Sure, there can be religious teachings in which all major religions are discussed. That's a part of history that everybody should certainly learn. But Creationism? Give me a break. That's just plain wrong. I also want to know what can everybody do about this?? (Those who are irate about this as most of us are.) I LOVE that this is in the media and getting attention though.

     
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    hsirrapyesdnil    May 22, 2010   Tennessee

    I love Lies My Teacher Told Me. One of my biggest problems in education is the fact that the professionals don't really have control. It is true, evolution is the accepted norm, but we can't teach it because parents don't agree. You can easily teach it in a non-confrontational manner, but the opposite side, forces confrontation. And, it bullies the children of more secular or science loving parents into conforming to the classroom's dominant opinion.

     
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    hsirrapyesdnil    May 22, 2010   Tennessee

    @ Kingcake,

    I disagree about religion being taught. I think that beliefs shouldn't be taught, but if I don't explain Hinduism, Islam, and Judaism to my students--honestly even Catholocism--then they will never know what it means. We live in a diverse world and the unknown is scary. Kids need to know the very basic ideas, but they shouldn't be taught to believe in any of it by me. That is their parent's or religious institution's role.

     
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    ejs4y8    June 20, 2009  

    Yep I attended public school, both in California and Missouri. My school in Missouri had Christmas decorations up for December, though, was very Christian-based, even though it claimed to not be. Christmas decorations in December! A tree in my classroom! I was blown away. Everybody knew everybody through church--it was a very small town of 500 people.

    We were taught briefly about the concept of creationism because it was mentioned in our textbook and basically the teacher said, "we aren't going to discuss evolution and creationism in depth--just know what these two beliefs stem from. Basically, evolution involves XYZ. Creationism involves the belief that one God made everything and nothing evolved." Then we discussed the evolution of bacteria. I was so confused that day.

    I don't know that it was so much being taught about creationism so much as "here is the other popular belief"

    Then again, we got to play cards every day in senior physics (there were 8 of us in that class). So uh, take my education for what it's worth.

    @kingcake, I just mean that many liberals believe in separation of church and state, despite their beliefs (aka myself) more so than any conservatives I know (who believe in the whole founding fathers/basis of Christianity argument), but you're right, I'm sure there are tons of conservatives who believe in separation. I don't know any, though.

     
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    teaadntoast    04/23/2010   New York, NY

    @hsirrapyesdnil - My best friend is a teacher, and she reports having the same sorts of problems.  Parents complain to the administration and teachers end up being censored.

     

     
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    ejs4y8    June 20, 2009  

    I took World History and learned about all kinds of cultures, religions, etc, in a NON theological manner. Learned the history of it--when it was founded, by whom, etc.

    I wish more parents acknowledged that you CAN teach "sticky issues" in a classroom without getting everybody riled up about it. If you want your children to have a religious-based education, scrounge up the money to buy them one. Can't afford it? I don't know what to tell you. Take them to church and sunday school classes. Or give them lessons at home to supplement what you think they are missing.

    I personally was told not to believe that "anti-God blasphemy brainwashing crap" they were teaching at public school when I was a child, but I listened with an open mind and came to my own conclusions regarding science and God. Sadly, I can truly see how some parents are opposed to their kids learning too much science.

    I do know that when I took that world history class and learned about all these other religions (oh the horror!), that is when I began to question why I believed in Christianity and started to delve deeper because I was exposed to all these other religions and wanted to know more. There were SO many and I had NO idea they all existed. When I talked to my dad about this (the whole, "why are WE right?" discussion), he was really upset. I never brought it up again.

    I'm curious to know why people are voting "yes"....is it a religiously-based thing or do you feel that the textbooks are, indeed, too liberal? I totally get if/why you want to hide, though =]. I am curious if you believe the revisions are good for the same reasons the articles say the senators/board are doing them or if you have different reasons.

     
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    MissAsB    June 6, 2009   Married in CO, Living in AL

    @ejs: I think a world history class is a great idea.  It's sad that people don't want their children learning about other religions because they might question their religion.  Shouldn't someone's relationship with their religion be questioned a bit so that they are sure that it is the right path for them instead of the only one that they know of and don't know any different?

     
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    sloth    May 14, 2011   Philadelphia, PA

    This whole thing makes me sick. Look at some of the changes being proposed:

    - A greater emphasis on “the conservative resurgence of the 1980s and 1990s.” This means not only increased favorable mentions of Schlafly, the founder of the antifeminist Eagle Forum, but also more discussion of the Moral Majority, the Heritage Foundation, the National Rifle Association and Newt Gingrich's Contract With America.

    - A reduced scope for Latino history and culture. A proposal to expand such material in recognition of Texas’ rapidly growing Hispanic population was defeated in last week’s meetings—provoking one board member, Mary Helen Berlanga, to storm out in protest. "They can just pretend this is a white America and Hispanics don’t exist," she said of her conservative colleagues on the board. "They are rewriting history, not only of Texas but of the United States and the world."

    - Changes in specific terminology. Terms that the board’s conservative majority felt were ideologically loaded are being retired. Hence, “imperialism” as a characterization of America’s modern rise to world power is giving way to “expansionism,” and “capitalism” is being dropped in economic material, in favor of the more positive expression “free market.” (The new recommendations stress the need for favorable depictions of America’s economic superiority across the board.)

    - A more positive portrayal of Cold War anticommunism. Disgraced anticommunist crusader Joseph McCarthy, the Wisconsin senator censured by the Senate for his aggressive targeting of individual citizens and their civil liberties on the basis of their purported ties to the Communist Party, comes in for partial rehabilitation. The board recommends that textbooks refer to documents published since McCarthy’s death and the fall of the Soviet bloc that appear to show expansive Soviet designs to undermine the U.S. government.

    - Language that qualifies the legacy of 1960s liberalism. Great Society programs such as Title IX—which provides for equal gender access to educational resources—and affirmative action, intended to remedy historic workplace discrimination against African-Americans, are said to have created adverse “unintended consequences” in the curriculum’s preferred language.

    - Thomas Jefferson no longer included among writers influencing the nation’s intellectual origins. Jefferson, a deist who helped pioneer the legal theory of the separation of church and state, is not a model founder in the board’s judgment. Among the intellectual forerunners to be highlighted in Jefferson’s place: medieval Catholic philosopher St. Thomas Aquinas, Puritan theologian John Calvin and conservative British law scholar William Blackstone. Heavy emphasis is also to be placed on the founding fathers having been guided by strict Christian beliefs.

    - Excision of recent third-party presidential candidates Ralph Nader (from the left) and Ross Perot (from the centrist Reform Party). Meanwhile, the recommendations include an entry listing Confederate General Stonewall Jackson as a role model for effective leadership, and a statement from Confederate President Jefferson Davis accompanying a speech by U.S. President Abraham Lincoln.

    - A recommendation to include country and western music among the nation’s important cultural movements. The popular black genre of hip-hop is being dropped from the same list.

    Source

     
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    Jacqi    February 28, 2009  

    @ejs- like you, we had a class called World Cultures required in 10th grade as our history class. That's definitely the place to teach about religions/cultures in a non "right vs. wrong" way.

    Some of my teachers were not censored enough (mostly the history teachers). I don't think it is appropriate for teachers to have election posters in their classrooms endorsing a candidate or politcal party. Off the cuff comments were really bad too.

     
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    SaraFoxy0328    03/28/2010   Dallas, TX

    Argh, the bee ate my post (or...stung it?).

    This is one of many reasons why I wish I could move out of Texas tomorrow.  It's sad and disgusting to me that an area that we should all want (logically) free of politics for the sake of our children is now turning into a political nightmare.

    Who does this benefit?  What purpose does it serve?  It's certainly not the children, it goes in the opposite direction from doing that.  Look, I'm ALL for educating your children everyday in your own home about what you believe, but I think it's wrong and unacceptable to attempt to brainwash them into thinking your way (or anyone else's) is the only way.  Even further than that, it's disgusting and irresponsible to bring those ideals into a classroom to teach OTHER people's children.  Facts and logic belong in education, the end.

    I know how many people will frown on me for saying this, but it's been a long, long time since I was proud to be a Texan.

     
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    vintage2010    April 10, 2010  

    I went last night to see the movie Green Zone. It reminds me of this, because we are only given the information that the politicians want us to hear and know.  Really sad. 

     
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    lilyfaith    June 23, 2012   Lakeview, Chicago

    @danadelphia - thanks for writing out that list! I have reached this point of frustration on this topic after arguing it with FBIL where I just couldn't do another point-by-point recap. 

    And thanks for pointing out that they're taking Thomas Jefferson out of more than the Enlightenment. I think that's one of the worst parts - okay, no, they're all terrible - but it's especially bad, because they're basically taking away a huge part of the motivation behind the founding of our country just so that they can say the majority of the founders had Christian intentions. It's sick. 

    It's sad that critical thinking is no longer valued in parts of our country. I can only hope that these kids will grow up to go to college, so they can at least stand a chance at learning what really happened. 

     
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    Melissabegins    December 12, 2009  

    @ejs - regarding your conversation with your father about why are WE right? I think that this step is so important! When you really break it down, aren't most religions pretty similar anyway? I think that if one can have a dialogue like this and still come to the same conclusions after hearing multiple points of view, that it could only strengthen their religious beliefs. So why is it that people are so fearful of hearing different points of view?

     
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    @mellisa: people don't want to hear different points of view because it means they can no longer blindly follow their faith. I'm all for having a strong investment in whatever you religion you choose, but lets face it, the majority of people blindly follow along because that is all they've ever known/expected to do.

     
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    ceamoste    September 3, 2011  

    well i'm not from the states so i don't know much - but from your comments i'd have to say this is not a good thing :P

    i know i went to a small, private christian highschool and even we were taught both. it was never implied that evolution is bad, because it's scientific. i agree that creationism i not something that should be taught in a science class, because it has nothing to do with science :P

     

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