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I got some advice about this on Twitter - someone suggested we offer to sign a 2 year lease, and make our pet deposit non-refundable. A non-refundable deposit will mean we will basically pay ~$1000 (or however much the deposit would be) for our dog on top of the adoption fees, which seems a bit over the top to me but maybe something we should consider. We can't sign a 2 year lease because we honestly don't know if we will be here that long.
Any thoughts?
I don't have much to add, but wanted to say good luck! If they do allow you a pet, be sure they follow through with your lease addendum- I've seen it happen many times that someone gets a verbal agreement with their landlord, he or she changes their mind or the place gets sold, and the pet has to be given up because it isn't on the lease.
I think all of your materials sound good, as do your price estimates. I have paid both refundable and non-refundable pet deposits, and they have ranged from $500-$800; but I had places with cheap rent. Maybe try offering refundable at first, and then negotiating to non-refundable if you have to.
Good luck with everything. You may have less luck with a complex than you would with a private landlord (in my experience, complexes don't budge much), and you may have to deal with breed or size restrictons if they decide to allow pets. Worth a shot to ask, though!
I think the letter is good, but I think you are almost giving them too much. Unless you really think it will be that hard to convince them to let you get a dog. I would probably start with smaller offerings then work your way up by negotiating. $1000 is a lot for a pet deposit (especially if its non refundable) and $50 is on the expensive side for pet rent as well. I live in Northern Virginia where the pet rent and deposits are extremely high. Most of the pet deposits Ive seen have been $250-500 depending on size, number of dogs/pets or the niceness of the apartment complex. We have always rented from private owners so we have gotten good deals on pet deposits. They have always been refundable (if all goes well) and the most we have paid is $500 for a dog and 2 cats. However, the last place we looked was an apartment complex and it was $500 for the first pet and an additional $100 per extra pet. THe most pet rent I have seen is $45 but I know it can get up to $85 or so. That will usually depend on the size of the dog as well. What size dog are you planning to get? I would probably offer a $300 pet deposit (Refundable) and $35 pet rent, then go up from there if necessary. Honestly, pets usually do not do $300 worth of damage. Good luck - keep us updated!
Thanks for the advice! I really have no idea about these things so I was definitely going on the very high end. We do live in a very nice apartment complex owned by a pretty big management company, so I expect things will be more expensive (if we even have a shot). I think we will probably offer a $500 refundable pet deposit and $50 pet rent, and negotiate the deposit being non-refundable if we have to.
PitBullLover, when you say I am giving them too much, do you mean strictly financially or in terms of information? I know it is a VERY long letter and we may need to make it more concise... I just really want to make our case. What do you think of our argument for the four outside town homes being an exception from the rule?
I'm not sure how this works as I've never done it myself, but I know many student friends of mine who are renting (both on campus apartments and off campus apartments) have simply gotten a note from the doctor stating that it would greatly benefit their health to have the companionship of an animal. Some were more related to anxiety, others were just easily given a note because pets generally do increase your happiness/health. Once they got a note, they got their pet since it was a medical need. The landlord/agency (even the campus) had to let them have their animal.
Your note seems more than reasonable, as another PP said, maybe you're starting out being too generous. If you start with a lower-but still decent-offer, you have more room to 'give' and go higher (even if that's only up to your 1K you'd be ok with). I wouldn't give them all the goods at first, leaving yourself room to negotiate may help express to them that you're serious about making it work and 'appeasing them,' and it may cost less than you're willing to pay :-)
I'd call around to other apartment/condo/townhouse complexes in your area to see how much their pet deposit is. Just act like an interested buyer and they'll probably tell you anything. $1000 non-refundable pet deposit seems extremely high to me. For us, we had a $200 non-refundable deposit along with a $200 refundable security deposit for each dog. The non-refundable one was for the cleaning they do once we move out and the refundable was just in case the dogs destory something. We also only pay $10/dog/month as a monthly fee.
@daniellemybelle: Yes, I meant strictly in the amounts of money you are offering at first. I would just start smaller and negotiate up if they want you too.
I live in a brand new house with laminate floors. I own.
Since getting a dog (nice, adult dog) in January, we have had to steam clean the carpet upstairs, then install a baby gate to keep her out of upstairs. Then she got sick (TMI but you should know, diarrhea for a couple days until the vet opened after the weekend......then she got a bladder infection probably from contamination from the diarrhea). Due to all the messes, which we were extremely diligent about cleaning up, our laminate floors are ruined (due to the moisture of a pee we didn't clean up in time). To replace a small bit of floor will not match the rest, likely. So, we are now having the expense of replacing all the flooring in our first floor.
And our house is brand new.
I fully understand why landlords don't accept dogs.
Certainly start on the lower end of things $500-$800 and go up and to non-refundable if you get resistance. I would give them the letter before the meeting so that they know what to expect and have time to consider all the points.
I think you've made excellent points and have really thought it through. I do have a question, you say that you have access to the outdoor access but also state that you won't let the dog use the outdoors for relieving itself. I think that this is a bit extreme, sometimes a dog just has to go you know? Perhaps put in there that all "messes" would be immediately taken care of if they are on the property?
Not sure, but good luck and keep up updated.
I think it is reasonable to assume that the "pet deposit" is non-refundable (the ones I have paid were always non-refundable). But $1000 is really high. I have never paid more that $300 for a deposit, but I have cats, so it may be a bit different. What size dog are you planning on getting? My impression is that apartment complexes are more likely to allow little dogs than big ones.
I agree with Hedgeknits - complexes are usually really unwilling to budge - I wish you luck, but I would not get your hopes up. And a word to the wise....don't get a dog without their permission - I have seen several people get "caught" and they had to either move within a month or get rid of the dog ... both options suck!
I agree with the earlier mention that you HAVE to get this in writing from them. If your complex is currently dog-free; let's just say one of your neighbors (unbeknownst to you) HATES dogs. You get a dog, he sees the dog, he starts complaining, trying to get either the dog or you kicked out, saying that he moved in because it was a pet-free environment, etc. ...
If you have it on your lease, at least they can't go back on it (or if they do, you can take legal recourse).
I am a landlord and i do not allow any pets at any of my rentals. I understand the managements point of view, that if they let you have one then they must let everyone have one, other tenants , even thought not directly connected to your town home will complain since you were allowed to have pets and they were not. Which opens up another can of worms for the managers. Also you mention this is a mangament company, they may not have direct control over pets being allowed, the group or individual that actually owns the property may dictate no pets allowed as this can cause issues with additional insurance, extermination cost, additional lawn cost due to pet mess etc and of course there is always the risk of neighbors that dislike pets, being bitten, especially when you live in the close quarters of apartments.
Years ago when i used to allow pets at a few properties we have we did a $300 pet deposit, with $100 non-refundable. I had mostly great pet experiences but I also have horror stories, and a property can have significant damage, especially carpets, trim, doors and lawns. There is always some deordorizing and extermination and touch up required after a pet lives in a property and that is where that non-refundable portion goes.
Sorry I am really not trying to be a downer, but i just wanted to let you know my experience,...But you never know until you ask. Good Luck!
Thank you all for your advice!
@NDBee: I have tossed that idea around but it would just be dishonest and I'm not cool with that. Definitely is sounding more and more tempting though!
@cvbee: Your poor sick doggy! The first level of our apartment has completely concrete floors with a "finish." The upstairs has carpet, so we would use a baby gate to keep the dog downstairs. I doubt dog pee could do much to our floors. But again, I don't think it has as much to do with OUR unit and us as residents/dog owners as everyone else, which is why I'm trying to convince them that us and our three neighbors are unique.
@Tickles: There's a small lawn that we share with the other residents inside the complex, but we wouldn't let our dog go potty there, not even if we cleaned it up. We would simply take the dog out the other way to the curb and clean it up there like regular city folk :)
@Rock Hugger: Sadly we can't say we are getting a little dog - we want to adopt a retired greyhound. I'm hoping the fact that it is an adult, housebroken and trained dog will trump "small!" And rest assured, we'd never get a dog without their permission. Pretty sure we'd be caught fast anyway - there's security cameras!
@daydreamwanderer: Our management company is very above board so I don't think they would ever give us the go ahead without putting it in writing first, but thanks for the heads-up!
@octobermom: I really appreciate your point of view, as deflating as it is! I totally understand where you are coming from. I didn't think about the insurance aspect. The thing is, on our lease it says we can have pets IF we have a pet addendum -- why would they have provided for that if it was completely out of the question?
@daniellemybelle: Yeah, I'm with ya. That's why I don't have a kitty yet :-( I can't have a kitty that's a lie. Lol. But I figured I'd put it out there since I've seen it 'work.' I hope that they're reasonable with you and can understand that you're getting a trained, adult rescue. It's just too kind to say no to!
I may have missed this, but are you mentioning in your letter the size of the dog? At least where I live, basically every apartment that allows dogs only allows dogs up to about 25 pounds. I think we found 1 apartment in the area that would allow up to 50 pound dogs. I just worry that they will say "yes" initially and then find out the size of the dog and not want you to continue caring for the dog.
I also agree with others that you should start with lower dollar amount and increase them only if necessary. If they would have been happy with a $300 deposit and you're willing to give then $1000, I don't think they would turn that down!
@daniellemybelle I cannot speak for them but I use a standard lease that provides that option, which reserves the right to have pets if allowed. They may very well manage other locations that are pet friendly.
My lease has this (see below) in writing to state that NO pets are allowed, unless by a separate agreement, this eliminates the wiggle room and open endedness of just saying no pets and states consequences which will be upheld in court should there be a violation of the agreement.
(PETS: THERE WILL BE NO PETS. Unless authorized by a separate written pet agreement. Tenant must not permit any pet, including mammals, reptiles, birds, fish, rodents, or insects on the property even temporarily, unless otherwise agreed by a separate written pet agreement.............continued)
For example: The lease says just "no pets are allowed", but there is no clause for damages or a reqirement for a written agreement,so you decide to pet sit for your family, you are in default of the "no pets are allowed", but you did not know there would be consequences for pet sitting, becuase it was not stated (hence the above even temporarily) and the pet was sick while staying with you and made a mess and now it sets up for a battle that could have been avoided with the proper requirements stated beforehand. I know it sounds petty but this is probably one of the most tested agreements of the lease.
This is my opinion and i am not a lawyer and am not giving legal advice but this is how i usually explain to prospective teants that ask questions similar to this.
What you are offering is very convincing, but they are absolutely right. Fair housing says that if they allow one renter do something, they have to allow all renters to do the same. I used to work at an apartment complex, and even for something as simple as letting a 40lb dog in an apartment with a 30lb weight limit the property manager said they would have to raise the limit for everyone, not just the one renter. It's all about fair housing, which does not allow landlords to make special cases and in turn, protects those not getting the benefits.
In my area, I usually see pet deposits at around $500, and pet rent of about $50-100 per month. A deposit should always be refundable; pet rent is not.
I wouldn't bother so much with why you two would be better pet owners/candidates to have a pet in their building than other tenants (working across the street), and just more on the responsibility you will take for anything: plan to get a dog that is already house trained, will take full financial responsibility for any damage caused by the pet, will take out liability insurance for the dog, etc. And get it in writing!
I would not do a $1k non-refundable deposit. To me, that sounds like you're anticipating the dog destroying something. If you've ever had a pet before, you could provide references (I did that with my last landlord & it helped).
Start with a $300-$500 refundable deposit. Say you're willing to have the landlord inspect the house after 30 days & after 3 months if they would like to check on the property. You could also suggest re-negotiating rent, but don't go at the highest right off the bat, like you said maybe $50 is resonable (even with a $300 refundable deposit). If they don't seem to be budging, you could "up the anti" & you could possibly offer paying for steam cleaning of the downstairs/dog's area upon move out with a good cleaning company.
Make sure you take a TON of photos of the place before you get the dog. Catalog any stains, blemishes, scratches on the wall, everything that was there before you moved in. Burn the cd & keep it on file just in case!
@bananarama: Ugh, really? I find it hard to believe that a building where there are completely different types of units (two story townhomes with direct outdoor access vs. basic 1 bedroom inside apartments) would have to have the same exact rules for everyone! Maybe I am grasping at straws here, but I feel like if the lease allows for a pet addendum, then can't the landlord just say that we were "approved" for specific reasons (outdoor access, cement floors, already housebroken dog), and not "approve" others?
I'm starting to feel like going up against a large apartment complex / management company is going to be a lost cause :( Thank you everyone for your help, though! If anyone has any experience doing something similar I would still love to hear about it!
- What is a typical pet deposit? Deposits around here are anywhere from $200 for a small pet to $600 for a large dog. $1,000 seems pretty high, but I live in GA.
- What would be a reasonable number to add on to our rent? I've only seen pet rents from $0 to $20. I would be mad at a $50 pet rent. Ours is $0 :)
- What do you think of our letter?
I didn't read the whole letter... but I noticed a section that said which houses you think should be allowed to have dogs (the four end units). I don't think this is appropriate in a letter asking to have a pet. It doesn't seem right to tell them who should/shouldn't have a pet. You should just ask for yourselves. Just my opinion.
The types of units wouldn't make much of a difference, but I totally agree with you that if the pet addendum is an option there shouldn't be any reason to not let you get a dog! Some places have more strict rules on weight, breeds, and whether they are housebroken, so you might have to have the dog approved, but I don't understand why they are telling you no if it's an option!
@bananarama: That's what I thought too! It's not really a "no pets" policy if they have the option for it in the lease. The rental agreement says specifically that you cannot have a pet UNLESS you add a pet addendum and pay a pet deposit. We are clearly willing to do that and much more, but if our landlord says no, what can we do?
I think you've done a lot of good research and have thought of every convincing argument possible to achieve your goal. I want to point out, however, that in a negotiation the first person to name a price loses, so if possible try to ask them to name a price for the deposit first. I also wouldn't mention paying additional rent, I would wait for them to bring it up.
Even though it sounds like you are easily replaced, I would mention in a non-threatening way that you were considering moving out because you want to adopt a dog. Ask if there is anything they can do and mention you would be willing to put down a deposit and sign an addendum. If you've been paying rent on time and not creating any kind of ruckus, they might just let you. But keep in mind it might still be too much trouble for them if they anticipate everyone else demanding being able to have a dog.
@moderndaisy: Thanks for the advice. I think you are right - we should take out the numbers altogether and just make it clear that we are willing to negotiate.
Do you think we should talk to them in person first or send the letter and request a meeting after they've seen our argument all together?
I lived in a complex in DC -- our pet deposit was $400 (non-refundable) plus $50 pet rent per pet.
So, in the bay area, $35 seems to be the standard for pet rent. I've never seen pet rent in any other place i've lived (southern CA, Boston, all over TX) so it may or may not be standard in your area.
If you feel like playing dirty...in my old apartment there were a lot of things not up to code (specifically, bad windows that were costing us a lot in heat), and we called the city inspector on them. Once they had the list of things they had to fix, we told them all would be forgotten if they let us have the dog for free.
They did.
Just a thought...
@crayfish: Wow! Haha, whatever works! Fortunately (or maybe not in this case) our apartment complex is very above board. And like I've said before, I don't think any kind of threatening will work in our case because there is a waiting list.
@ribbons: We live in a complex Baltimore, so I bet if this does work, what we would pay would be similar. What did the pet part of your lease look like when you signed it? Did you have to propose a pet addendum or was that something they did for others?
After more consideration and all your great advice, I am taking out the part about allowing the four town home units to have pets and not others. I don't really think it is my place to suggest that and I don't think they would go for it. Instead, I am focusing more on the fact that it is provided for in our lease. Again, I don't want to be threatening, but I just want to make the point. What do you all think of this?
In the past, we’ve had conversations about getting a dog with {SUPER}, who was very understanding as always. He acknowledged that our rental agreement does allow for pets if we add a pet addendum and pay a pet deposit. However, he indicated that if were to adopt a dog, less responsible residents would also want to have pets and “open a can of worms", so he was unwilling to take the steps to permit us to have a dog. While we understand this concern, we also feel that we are exceptionally prepared to be very responsible and courteous pet owners. Therefore, we hope we will be allowed to have a pet per the terms provided in our lease.
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My husband and I have always planned on moving out of our current place and into an apartment that allows us to have pets so we can adopt a dog, since its something we've been really wanting for a long time. However, DH just got a job literally across the street from our current apartment. That combined with all the amenities at our complex that would be hard to find elsewhere makes us want to stay -- we just want a freakin' dog!
Our lease says that we cannot have a pet without a pet addendum and a pet deposit, and when we asked about it last go around, they basically shut us down, saying if they let us have a pet, then they would have to let everyone. When we renew our lease this time, we really want to convince them, but we aren't sure how to go about it. I don't think threatening to move out will get us far because they have a waiting list for this place. I'm hoping a promise of a hefty deposit and additional monthly rent will seal the deal, as well as our carefully crafted argument for why we (and our three neighbors on the outside of the building) should be exempt from the no-pet rule.
I have written a letter and drafted an example of a pet agreement, which I'm going to copy into this post (it's long, so thank you so much for taking the time to read it!) My questions are:
- What is a typical pet deposit? I was thinking up to $1000, even though it makes my stomach hurt to say that number.
- What would be a reasonable number to add on to our rent? I was thinking $50/month if we pay a high pet deposit, but we could probably do up to $150 if we had to.
- What do you think of our letter? Should we send the letter first, requesting a meeting, or should we request a meeting without sending the letter and simply bring our points along to discuss? I don't want to seem too formal and turn them off or make it easy for them to dismiss us, but at the same time I want them to know we are taking this seriously and aren't just kids asking for a dog for their birthday or something.
Here's the letter/proposal:
While we strongly desire to sign our third lease with APARTMENT COMPLEX, we also strongly desire to adopt an adult dog. We hope that you will be open to our proposal, as long-time residents of APARTMENT COMPLEX who want to remain so.
First of all, we are more than willing to pay both a Pet Deposit, which is a stipulation for having a pet in our rental agreement, as well as additional monthly rent in order to have a dog. We would like to carefully select an adult, fully trained dog with the support of APARTMENT COMPLEX that will pose little risk of damage to the property or disturbance to our neighbors. We would welcome opportunities to provide management with references at the dog rescue attesting to the dog’s temperament and level of training.
We are also in the unique position of being able to attend to the dog throughout the day, as HUSBAND will be working in the BUSINESS offices in APARTMENT COMPLEX. Because he will be able to feed, walk and otherwise care for the dog during the day, the risk of damage to the property or disturbance to neighbors is even further minimized.
We understand that if we are allowed to have a pet, other residents will also feel that they should be allowed a pet. However, we rent in an outside townhome – one of the largest and most expensive units at APARTMENT COMPLEX. With this townhome comes an entire floor without carpet or other materials that could be easily damaged by a pet. While our dog would already be fully housebroken, to even further reduce the risk, we would be willing to restrict our dog to the first floor using a baby safety gate. Additionally, our unit has direct outdoor access, which would allow us transport the dog from APARTMENT COMPLEX property for walks with little potential for disturbance to other residents.
In light of these unique aspects of our unit, we propose that only the four outside townhomes be allowed pets if they are able to provide a Pet Deposit and also pay additional monthly rent, as well as adhere to a comprehensive Pet Agreement similar the one we have drafted below.
Below is a draft of a portion of a potential Pet Addendum to our rental agreement. We’ve drafted this simply to outline the multiple financial and personal commitments we are more than willing to make in order to bring a dog into our home and continue living in APARTMENT COMPLEX.
Pet Addendum
Residents desire to keep a pet on the premises and the Rental Agreement requires a Pet Addendum and Pet Deposit in order for residents to have a pet. The Rental Agreement is hereby amended to grant such permission to the residents under the following terms and conditions:
Thanks again!