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Im so sorry you are going through this. I know what it feels like to not be able to find work. Im not in the exact situation but i have been out of work for awhile now, and my husband is also only working part-time, so it is a little difficult right now to pay for everything, we even had to move back in with his dad till we both get another job... (or finish school, we both are stating school in the fall)
Unfortunaly, and Im sure you know this being a manager in the past, termination on a past job is not good at all. Your job now is to make them want to see you. You have a BS, flaunt it. LOL.
I know you said you cant even pay for all your bills if you get a job for only $10/hour but with your termination on your record, you might need to start at the bottom, just make sure when you do get that interview, they now you are looking for something long term and to move up in the company as you did with your last position.
Stay positive, you will find something out there :)
@MrsMouse: Yes, I know all too well that termination is a death sentence for a job application. No one wants to even talk to you. You're automatically scum. The amount of discrimination is ridiculous. Making $10/hr won't bring in enough money to cover our mortage, let alone the utilities. I'm getting about $500 a week now, and that's barely enough with DH not bringing a lot in. I'm about to get a job as a hooker or sell a kidney.
Honestly, lie. Fabricate your resume a bit...say you've been running your own business from eBay during this time and instead of saying you were terminated, just say you quit to explore other career options. Give them a phone number of a friend for a reference as a dm if you have to. Odds are they won't ever find out anyway.
I'm really sorry that you're in this position. I spent 2 years after school volunteering and interning at different organizations all the while applying to hundreds of jobs. Before deciding to go back to school I had no problems getting a job but unfortunately when I finished is exactly when the economy tanked. I am now happily self-employed.
You have applied to over 300 jobs and only had 3 interviews. Surely these potential employers don't know that you were terminated just from your resume so something else is going on here. Maybe it's just that your competition is really high? Most positions have hundreds and hundreds of very qualified people applying for that one spot. Would moving or searching further outside of your current limits give you more options?
ETA: Duh, sorry I just clued in that you have a 2 year gap. This was my big worry before as well since I have several gaps and lots of short term employment. I am not going to advocate lying but do what you have to do!
@MsNarwhal: Wish that was a possibility. Lying on a job application will get you fired from any job, at any time. And all a potential employer has to do is contact my former company or boss and hear that my reason for leaving was "involuntary." Legally, that's all they can say.
@Ms. Martian: yup...almost 2 years....depressing.
Obviously it's not on my resume, but you do have to answer those questions on applications. Some give you a space to type your own response, like "would like to discuss in person," others make choose from a drop down menu, so you have to choose "terminated" or the dreaded "fired."
I'm about to start contacting my former boss and try to play nice with her to get a letter of reference. This will most likely not work out.
I'm so sorry about all that.
Did you try to file a wrongful termination suit from the first job? Did you have that paper-trail on the one employee?
You are right though, lying on your resume or "doctoring" your resume really is the worst thing you could do. Because all a potential employer needs to do is a quick reference or background check and your lie will be uncovered.
I really hope you are able to find a more forgiving employer, this economy is really tough right now for all job seekers.
I'm sending you good thoughts and I really hope something does come through.
Maybe Canadian law is different but I have never had to disclose why I left on a job application!
What about going through an employment agency? Typically they are paid by the employer.
Good luck trying to get the reference letter! I really hope it works out for you.
Perhaps you can work with a recruiting/staffing firm? That way you can explain the situtation and hopefully they'll be able to help direct your job search.
Unless the applications you're filling out ask for a reason why you left your previous job, then I definitely would not volunteer that information unless someone asks. I also would not put it on my resume. I would just put my dates of employment. I would let them call your previous employer if they want and don't lie if they ask, but you don't need to put "terminated" on your resume.
ETA: just saw your last post, so you can basically disregard everything I wrote. :)
This is so awful! Have you considered doing temp work? This will allow you a foot in the door, which seems to be all you need to prove yourself and work your way up.
@KatNYC2011: actually, I wasn't "wrongfully terminated." Employment with this company is "at will." meaning, you can be fired for any reason at any time, no contracts. However, this seems to only apply (and be utilized) with managment or salaried based employees only. I actually tried to use this as a reason to terminate my disgruntled employee, and was obviously not permitted to follow through with it. I investigated my termination with HR and several lawyers. No case unless I could prove what she said. Iunsuccessfully tried to get my former employees who supported me to make statements and they declined fearing termination as well.
As far as working with a recruiting/staffing firm or temp agency, no such luck. Recruiters are of no help, there's too many people unemployed and I can get the same information and apply. Temp agencies basically don't existhim my area unless you are willing to travel to Philadelphia which is way to far to drive with gas, tolls. Sigh.
I really feel helpless. Depressed. Angry. Ashamed. Worthless. Especially with all the negative flack the unemployed are getting. It's not as easy as you think and the longer youfog without a job, the worse you look. Like something is wrong with you.
i know what you mean. i've been unemployed for over two years now (by 4 days...i lost my job on january 14, 2010). i was laid off, and at the time i was 6 months pregnant. my husband died 6 weeks later, and i had my son 5 weeks after that. the timing of my layoff pretty much destroyed any small hope i had of finding a job quickly. the job market in the area was pretty much nonexistent anyway, but the timing kinda put the nails in the coffin if you know what i mean. i've probably applied for nearly 300 jobs and have yet to get a single callback. it's really depressing. i'm on EB right now too...i certify with unemployment one more time next week, and that's it. i'll officially be a 99er after that. i keep saying that SOMEthing has got to give, but so far nothing has. i even moved to a more populated/diverse area last september and still nothing. it looks pretty bleak.
Technically, since you are receiving unemployment benefits, you were not terminated for misconduct because that would mean you would be ineligible for benefits. When you filed, the company had to give them a reason, and since you were accepted, misconduct was not the reason they gave. So what I would say, since it's so common right now, is that you were terminated due to restructuring. So, when a new employer calls to check your references, HR will tell them the dates you worked and verify that you were terminated. You're telling the truth and you can avoid discussing the issue. They can't go into detail further than that because you can sue them if they slander you in anyway (which anyone can claim so HR just doesn't mess with it, especially in large companies). Find someone that you did work with that you maintained a good relationship with and have them act as your reference. In fact, have them write you a nice reference and attach that when you send resumes. Termination isn't the kiss of death anymore.
My SO was terminated twice in a year both because the companies were losing money and laying off people (1400 were fired in one DAY from the first company) and he's been able to not only get 2 jobs, but his current job actually pays 10K more than the first job he was terminated from. He used his references to speak for him. And he had to write 'terminated' on 2 jobs in a 6 month period.
I was also terminated from a very popular coffee chain after working there 2 years, though I was not a manager, because I did not stop another employee from acting out...mind you I was not her manager...and the manager didn't do anything either...but I move on...I lied on my resume...they knew I worked there but they didn't really know why I left...now your position is different seeing as you were a manager my only tip is maybe someone that you worked with that you could still use as reference?! Perhaps that could help?? I am really sorry you are going through this, I know it can be hard. After five years at the job I just left, there was no need to use the job I was terminated from on my resume...I know this doesn't help now, but in the future maybe! Best of luck to you! I hope you find something soon! After I was fired I had to take crappy low paying jobs! But I was in school and living at home..I really do hope you find something soon!
@cardus: Wow. I'm so sorry about your loss. Can't imagine how that must feel. I'm on tier 4 now, and EB was just activated in Jersey, but it all stops in March. I say the same thing, that something has to give....but nothing comes through. I can't even get a job I'm OVER qualified for. WaWa won't even hire me. I'm going to have to be a waitress at like 3 places and that will probably not be enough money. Ridiculous. If I still had my job, I'd be making $50K right now with full benefits, stocks, and bonuses. Sigh.
@ananeele: yes, you are correct. The company has listed my reason as "terminated due to partner feedback in case #...." See my problem? One phone call will let any hiring manager know that and the wheels start turning. As a manager, if I heard that, and my potential employee told me "restructuring" was the cause, I would not hire them.
I have 6 total references. 2 I directly worked with (one is a SM) and 2 are customers. Not one employer has contacted any of them. I'd say tha your SO is pretty lucky, and I wish I was terminated because of a lay off.
@misslyn86: I think we probably worked for the same company...we are both better off in the long run! If I was still living at my parents, then yes, a low paying job would be fine. I haven't made $10 an hour since I was in college....more than 10 years ago. This economy sucks. Unfortunately, the more people like me that accept such a low rate, the more it becomes acceptable.
I'm making a "not so nice" call to my former HR department to make them tell me EXACTlY what a potential employer would be told. Even if I did do something to warrent my termination, this is ridiculous. I will not loose my home because of this.
So here's what I just found out.....
I verified with The work Number that NO ONE has requested my information. This means that my former boss is telling potential employers information that is possible illegal. I find it very hard to believe that not one of the apprx 300 jobs that I've applied for has called to verify my employment and reason for leaving.
Hey...I've been here too. I let go from my position end of Feb 2010. Per paperwork I signed, it's not a layoff, so I tell people the facts: bad economy, insufficient work for everyone, the company rapidly opened X offices in 1-2 years which in hindsight, was perhaps not the best timing, and for my year they hired Y people but two years later they hire Z people (effectively double), I was part of the 2nd of 3 large groups of people that left, etc. I correct people if they ask if it was a layoff. I was recently told I must have been coached well by them on what I can and can't say, even though they never did coach me. In my field, it's unfortunately common. When asked about why I left, I offer my references and that they can speak with anyone they like within the company. (And they have been called, unfortunately more times than I like because I don't like to overuse references, before they offered me 2nd or 3rd round interviews.) Now, granted my issue wasn't getting the interview - I easily did 50+ interviews, including about 10 final rounds. Mine was competiting against people with more experience than me. I *just* was given a tentative job offer last week pending the lenghty background check. My advice:
@MrsBadluck: It's really possible you are getting buried with other applicants (or that they need reasons to cross people off and termination is an easy one), with nothing to do with your former employer saying anything. My last interviewer told me: 1800 page views for the position, 114 applications, they called about a dozen (including me) for the first round phone screener of which they already crossed some off the list. Every time I've heard stats of a position (about ~4 times) they've all been over 100. Honesly, if I had 100 applications, calling regarding employment departure is something I'd do only after round one and knowing I was interested in someone.
I was a store manager at a popular retail store. I got fired for total BS coming from a "new assistant manager". I totally feel for you. Honestly you will get through this. You aren't a felon!! It just took one employer to trust in me and I haven't had a problem attaining employment since. Just keep plugging away, I promise it will eventually work itself out. HUGS!!
companies would not be calling to verify your employment without having first met/interviewed you. it doesn't make sense. it is highly illegal to give much more than a "yes, she worked here" in reference to a former employee.
i think you're holding on to too much anger over this position. there's a lot of blaming and victimization. whatever happened it's in the past and it's time to let it go.
have you tried applying to target? i used to work in their store management and it was a great job, lots of potential and good money. look on their website about applying for executive team leader (ETL) positions. where are you located in NJ? there is a district office in springfield PA and i'm pretty sure they cover all/most of NJ also. tho, i think there is one in edison, nj. research it. i am VERY bold about jobs (i will call the HR office of any company and sell myself- it's how i got my current job that i LOVE). call them up and say you want to apply for an ETL position and to whom should you direct your resume.
i have been out in the career world for over 10 years now, and have held jobs in pretty much every sector (it took me a long time to figure out what i wanted to do with my life). i am happy to help and can give you lots of tips on acing an interview. there is hope!
btw, if you'd like to PM me your resume, I'll look at it for you and give you some suggestions.
@MrsBadluck: How far were you in the interview process? I just went through 9 interviews for one company and they are just now verifying my employment. It's too time consuming to verify every applicant.
I'm going strictly off what my dad used to tell me when he was the CEO of a company (and they fired a lot of people). Because the company can be held liable in so many situations, HR will only tell the dates you were employed and won't go into further detail than that because of the very reason you are insinuating -that they are inhibiting a person from getting another job. You don't need proof to file a lawsuit. You need it to win and they're going to have to hire an attorney to defend themselves in the trial even if it's a fluff case and they did nothing wrong. They don't want to spend money just to hurt your chances of getting a job. Plus, they're paying for your unemployment. It's beneficial for them to have you employed.
I don't know what jobs you are applying to, but, from the information you provided, it sounds like you're applying for the most commonly applied to jobs out there. If you were an engineer, something might be fishy, but you're applying for jobs that everyone in need of a job would look to apply to. You've said you have gotten some interviews, you just didn't like them right?
I haven't worked since April, 2010. Grant it, I went to grad school during that time, but I still am looking. In the meantime, I volunteered. That not only gave me great skills that I get asked about on interviews, but I got great references from the organization, and it shows that I'm not just sitting around waiting to get paid and I care about others. It's a win-win.
Another thing that really helps is creating a cover letter. I used to think they were outdated and no one read them, but with the economy the way it is, you need to sell yourself beyond the resume (that and you have to get past the computer screeners most companies used that just scan for keywords). How I do it is I copy and bold font all their requirements and then underneath each other them I bullet point how I meet that requirement. Those are the only jobs I'm getting called for. I haven't gotten a single call off a resume alone.
Oh sweetie... the damage has been done. 2 years between jobs is really just not good. :( Most likely, if you have only been on 3 interviews, no one even knows you were fired. It's just the job gap that scares them.
Here is what I would do. When they ask what you did during the 2 year gap, say any of the following:
1. I went back to school (and actually enroll in a program, because it's not a bad idea after all!)
2. I was also caring for a family member that was ill.
3. I have a housecleaning/meal delivery/wedding planning business on the side, but I'm ready to move on.
4. I volunteered at my church/local Big Brother/Girl Scouts.
5. I was a STHW, but I miss my career.
It's not the truth, but obviously, the truth will not get you a job. And you wouldn't be lying about employment, which is the major no-no.
@MrsBadluck: Ugh! I am so sorry you are in the terrible position! This economy is terrible! It took me a year out of school to find a job with my degree...as a nurse! Which is apparently 'in need' lies. I really do wish you the best and calling your HR to find out what they will say is a good idea....also we really ARE better off without them...they never have your back.
Thank you everyone for your suggestions. It's just not that easy. Sure, it looks simple from the outside, especially if you have a job. The few interviews I've had have gone well, just haven't gone any further. I just had a phone interview for a position I was very much qualified for, and got the denial "you suck" email today.
Too much competition, too many people are out of work. And yes, being jobless for almost 2 years has done the most damge, but I didn't get a call for an interview for almost a year after my termination. And yes, I am angry. You get fired over lies and ridiculous statements insinuating that I'm some sort of sexual harassing wierdo that rules with an iron fist and see how you feel. I'm not an idiot either, nothing but positive words come out of my mouth about this company and my boss. I even say that my termination was a blessing and that I'm able to explore new opportunities. I also obviously am not volunteering information that isn't necessary. As far as what I've been "doing" all this time, living life. I cannot go back to school, we do not have the money and I will not get any assistance because I have a BS already...I tried this when I first got axed. How would I be able to go back to school when I'm worried about paying our bills? I wish I had a kid so I could use that as an excuse for not having work. But then how would we afford that anyway...LOL
I am changing the way I fill out apps and questionaires. Telling the truth doesn't get you anywhere, so I'm going to tweek some things. A bee had a suggestion of "staff turnover" or "restructuring." Also having the "side wedding planning business" is actually legit to a point since I made a tun of stuff for my own wedding and sold a lot to other bees. Too bad it costs too much to turn it into an actual money making business.
@kay01: maybe...I know it's not the most amazing resume on the planet, but I've gotten a lot compliments on my achievements and "look good on paper." The problem is having all that positive info on my resume and then having to fess up and say I was fired, terminated, separarted, let go...whatever wording you use, the negatvity is the same. I'd almost rather be able to say that I got axed because my till was short $100 or something.
I have a BS and I got not only enough in federal loans for school but I got enough to pay for my rent while I was in school so I have a hard time thinking that school can't be an option even though you said you tried to go back and weren't offered any loans. Most of my loans were unsubsidized, but I got it and I was on unemployment. If you can't get federal, you can always get private. Yes, you go into debt, but it's good debt because it's an investment in your future.
If you claim you ran a side business like wedding planning, be prepared to present references from clients you worked with during this time. Especially if you list it as your most current employment.
OK. My suggestion is this: call the work number and tell them you are getting an employment reference for yourself. IE, be a fake employer. Then see exactly what it is they say as to why you left. Make sure you ask if you are eligible for rehire and why you left the company.
Then go from there. See if they are actuallying saying that you are fired. If not, then you can say you were terminated due to restructuring or some other answer.
@ananeele: If I wanted to be in debt for the rest of my life I would consider loans. Can't pay for loans if you have no extra money. And as far as a wedding side business, obviously it's not my "employment." Just a conversation piece about how I've filled my time since my last job. It also shows that I am detail oriented with fine tuned skills and tuns of patience. That being said, it only matters if the potential employer gives a hoot.
@cubicalmouse: Already done. Reason is "separated." no details, obviously. And if you get terminated from this comapny, you automatically are not eligible for re-hire. That information is n ot given out on the work number though.
Had a phone interview today that actually went well. It's interesting to note that I stated my reason for leaving as "separated due to staffing changes in my district." And added that I was one of 3 SMs that were let go in a 2 week period, which is true, and the company's "at will" employment policy. I made no mention of anything else. If granted another interview and pressed for further explanation, I will have to feel it out. I may have to add that an employee conflict put me on the chopping block, or that my former boss and I weren't getting along (which would further explain whay she will not be called for a reference.). The interviewer was extremly sweet to me, unlike others I have spoken with after revealing I was "terminated.." Hmmm. I will have to wait and see over the next few days if I pass to the next step...
If granted another interview and pressed for further explanation, I will have to feel it out. I may have to add that an employee conflict put me on the chopping block, or that my former boss and I weren't getting along (which would further explain whay she will not be called for a reference.).
Don't do this! It doesn't sound positive and it doesn't put in you a good light. Here's the thing- they are never going to know more about you leaving the coffee shop than you tell them. I was let go from a job and NEVER ONCE have I told a prospective employer. You seem hell-bent on getting in your own way about this.
I explain that the field was not for me and it made sense to move on. You can simply say, there were some management changes and I was part of that. Leave it at that. No details. Seriously, that's it. I promise, you will be fine doing this. Use your conversation skills to move along to a different topic. "I really loved working there because XXXX." (I've been hired for 4 jobs since this happened. Yes, I have had a lot of jobs- mostly bc I ace the interviews :))
A recruiter I know has this on her blog:
well, not having answer to inquiries as to why a manager that is doing very well and managing two stores suddenly loses their job is not acceptable to any potential employer I have had the pleasure to speak with. In other words, it doesn't make any sense. I just had this conversation a few hours ago with a recruiter.
So either i keep telling the truth, or I lie and say my performance declined managing 2 locations placing me on the chopping block. Companies have to make tough decisions and I was ready to move on to bigger and better things anyway. Whatever. I give up.
A lot of the bees here have been giving good advice. Based on your posts so far, you seem like a pretty levelheaded person. When I read your responses, here are the feelings that I get.. well I feel very sorry about the whole situation (losing job to a disrespectful subordinate) and then on the other hand, I feel like you are a pretty strong person. When you mentioned that you worked from the bottom up, that is a commendable statement. I'm sure you may have considered this and I feel that it is very important if you continue highlighting strong, positive statements. There is also no need to lie, but you don't have to reveal all of the details. Also, it's true that companies will not do background checks until they are very close to making you an offer. Then at that point, they just want to confirm that you are a good person. If you are very concerned about what your prior company will say, then do what someone had suggested and fake-call the previous company.
Put yourself in the company/hiring managers position. They basically want to hire somebody who is the best person for this position and can help their company. This is what you need to focus on. Like another bee had mention, what happened in the past is history.
With that said, I wanted to share some links to Ramit's videos (he is an expert at helping people find their dream jobs). I've been watching him for a couple of weeks and it is enlightening. There is a 5-minute sample video (near the bottom of the page above the sign up area):http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/dreamjob/Finding-a-Job-You-Love?utm_source=affiliate&utm_medium=referrer-p&utm_campaign=marief&um_content=80-20
What I learned from this video was that it's not just important to work hard, but it's important to work on the right things. Based on the posts, you are focusing a lot of time worrying about what your prior employer will say.
The 46-min video link where he goes in-depth about finding a dream job:http://privatelist.findyourdreamjob.com/8020-guide-to-finding-your-dream-job/
Then here's an interview I just saw tonight about a woman who quit law school and makes about $200k a year. just posted a new interview (she also says the word 'like' probably 100x!!)
This is not an advertisement for Ramit as he provides a lot of good free videos online. I'm hoping that by sharing these links, it might enhance your job search.
@MrsBadluck: I am so sorry. I know how hard it is out there. I actually found my job I am now on Craigslist. I wish I could get you a job asap cuz I know how it feels to feel you can never catch a break. I worked parttime at a retail store and volunteer at the hospital.
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I'm not new here, I just made a new name for this post. I'm sorry it's so long, I'm at my wits end. I lost my job of 5 years as a store manager of a very popular coffee chain in June 2010. I was a victim of slander and deframation of character by one of my employees. I could not defend myself because all of the accusations were confidential. I was only told a few things. I was forced to respond to allegations of misconduct, ranging from inappropiate conversations to making partners call me "mommy." I was also accused of threatening my employee's job security by giving them verbal warnings for behavior issues (lateness, uniform, etc). I was told that my employees were afraid of me and had been for years and that i lead them with intimidation. All of this couldn't be further from the truth. I was terminated from my position after being informed of this "investigation" for a week.
I had a very impressive background with this company, promoted from the bottom and I excelled in each position. I achieved many awards and held top honors in my district for many aspects of the business. I was a MCM (mentor coach mentor) to newly postioned managers. I was also managing more than one store. My performance reviews were consistent, not negative, and I continued to get positive feedback from my DM up until my termination.
I had a particular employee that I hired and quickly became a problem. She was very challenging in her questioning of training, scheduling, uniform and just about everything i did. So much so, that I had to have numerous conversations with her in regards to her disrespectful behavior. My DM instructed me to create a paper trail to eventually fire her to be rid of the problem. Then she began calling code of conduct lines and my DM's boss to complain about me. She began to tell my other employees I didn't know what i was doing and that I needed to be fired. While I was dual manging, she told employees and customers I wasn't coming back and she was the new manager. I was aware of all of this at the time, but could not prove it. My HR department had no advice. My DM told me to stop speaking to my own employee. Then i lost my job. In 3 months I went from the top performing manager in my district to fired for misconduct.
I cannot get another job. I have applied for over 300 jobs since my termination. I have had 3 interviews. One job offer was for $10/hr., no benefits. I cannot go back to school, I have a BS degree already, so unemployement will not pay for more schooling and we have spent all of money on bills. I'm on my last tier of unemployement benefits. My husband is only working 3 days a week and also cannot find another job. I can barely cover the mortagage and bills now and when the benefits run out, I don't know what to do. Even if i find a $10/hr job, we can't pay our bills. This is the worst time of my life and it's supposed to be the best. Sometimes bad things happen to good people and I don't know how to make a potential employer believe me and give me a chance. All they see is "terminated."
What to do????