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Okay, this by no means intended to start a huge political debate (although I'm sure it'll become one very soon). Let's all remember to respect each other's point of view and let them speak.
I am but an innocent Canadian following American news about the possible introduction of universal health care. As you know this is the type of health care that we subscribe to and was wondering, why is there so much resistance against it?
Help this Canuck out and help me understand the American population's feelings towards universal health care. Boo or yay?
My understanding is that government-run healthcare is second-rate compared to private-practice healthcare. I by no means have done sufficient research, but from what I've heard, many Canadians/Europeans are put in 6+ month waiting lists for life-or-death surgeries and have perished waiting. My belief is that if the government controls healthcare, physicians will be paid less, and since money is unfortunately a great motivator for most people, the quality of service will decline.
I fear that if a universal healthcare is available to all citizens, my company will forfeit their private healthcare and the employees will be required to have this second-rate insurance.
I'm open to opposing views and especially the opinions of someone part of this system.
I don't know if I'd sign up for universal health care. It might cover the basics and not the more in-depth stuff that my current insurer provides. However, once I get married and if my FI's insurance costs too much or isn't adequate, we'd look into UHC if it were available.
Insurance companies here are very against UHC. It'll be a loss for them as well as very taxing (literally) for U.S. citizens. Like other government-funded health care that's currently in effect (think medicaid), there may be limited locations where this type of insurance is accepted or there may be too many people wanted services. As a citizen, I wouldn't really mind if the government had control of my health history but there are many others out there who are very against that idea.
Some are totally for it and some aren't. Personally, I don't mind either way. And I don't mind if this becomes a huge political debate but play nice ladies!
As a Canadian and a health researcher I can say with 100% confidence that no one would EVER have to wait 6 months for a life/death surgery - a non-life threatening problem yes you do have to wait longer!
I am also interested in the views on universal healthcare also!
I found a nice little rundown on BalancedPolitics.org that kinda sums up the reasons for and against it.
http://www.balancedpolitics.org/universal_health_care.htm
I personally am on the fence basically for all the reasons they mentioned in their chart. I think the idea is sound and the reasons for it are good. The problems that it can cause and the money that it will cost us scares me though.
As a Canadian, this subject really gets me going. THE US MEDIA is portraying Canadian health care to be substandard. That's not the case at all!!
In my little city of 120,000 people we have one of the largest hospitals with a research cancer center. It's not drab. It's not dirty. The wait times in ER are reasonable. If its a life-or-death surgery, you are NOT waiting 6 months or longer. The media takes the worst hospital in our country and uses it as the Canadian Health Care poster child.
My mom had back surgery, my grandfather spent 5 months in the hospital & I had my own surgery. We all received top notch care. The only downside is that we all had to share rooms with other patients, BUT we didn't receive a single bill. The only bill I've ever received was for the ambulance ride: $60.
Some sort of health care reform is needed in the US... maybe its not universal health care, but some sort of compromise between gov't healthcare & private insurance needs to be made.
I believe there will never be "perfect" health care. No matter what, there will be downsides for people and there will always be room for improvement.
And to make a long story short - a friend of mine who used to live in Canada when she was younger lost her mother to cancer due to the health care system. I'm not going into details - it's a long story and I've forgotten a great deal of it. Basically she was neglegected and deferred and treatments and tests postponed because they weren't approved. What could have been treatable if she got the proper care right away ended up progressing and progressing until the government decided to NOT approve anything because she was already in the final stages. This was a long time ago (about 15 years ago) so I would hope things have changed.
I've heard similar stories about people in the US though, because their insurance company screwed them over. I really don't believe there will ever be a time when perfect health care is available to ALL people at ALL times.
I think people in the US are very fearful that having a Universal system might lead to socialism or at least a European-type Social Democracy. There is a strong underlying political belief here about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, and this is seen by some as a step towards a welfare state with handouts for all.
There are many examples of different and fabulous universal systems throughout the world, but since there are different types and many American beliefs tied up in the perception of those systems, I think it gets confusing. The message here is one of "fear the changes".
The Republican right has done a very effective job of getting people to be fearful and resistant to alternative health care structure. In fact people seem to be as resistant to a public health care option as they are to universal health care. In a public option, anyone could opt in to a government funded system if they wanted to, but they wouldn't be required to partake in... Having a public option would put pressure on the insurance companies to keep their profit margins lower, and so would likely benefit both privately and publically insured individuals.
Personally, as a physician who works in an ER every day, I think if something doesn't change significantly soon, the system is going to fail all people... not just the uninsured. We are completely stretched to the brink right now, and every time an uninsured person walks through the ER doors, they get uncompensated care which means their charges are passed on to everyone else who is insured. It's a vicious cycle.
I would encourage everyone, regardless of their stance on the issue to read about the proposed system in HR3200, read about the public option, and read about the health care systems in Canada, Germany, Australia, the UK, France and other places to figure out what you like and don't like... Then for Americans to use what they learn to participate in the debate in an educated and civil way.
The US is the only developed nation without coverage for all of it's citizens, and this is reflected in our lower health status than other developed nations.
Hope this helps. I'm in no way trying to be partisan. I just am trying to explain the polarization and how it is deeply rooted in the American ethos.
I believe that health care is a human right. I also think it's absolutely wrong that a country like ours, whose professed ideals are democracy and freedom, has such an enormous portion of citizens who cannot see doctors when they're sick, cannot have surgeries that they need, cannot be receive known cures for diseases, and so on, because they're uninsured. I support universal health care, in case you couldn't tell!
Catlady--I would love to hear more about your experience with universal health care, actually.
I am on the fence with the current plan, it just seems so rushed and expensive. What I think is that all Americans (all humans really, but we are talking about our country specifically) deserve equal access to healthcare at a minimum. I grew up without insurance and we are very blessed that none of us ended up in the hospital until we were on our own and covered by insurance. I think it's shameful that hardworking people can end up going into bankruptcy because of the high cost of health care. I think we also need to protect our responsible medical professionals from frivolous lawsuits and high insurance premiums. And furthermore, we need more medical professionals which means we need school to be more affordable, but I think I am getting side tracked here. Anyway, I am happy to have this conversation again, and I am saddened that people are letting rumors create hysteria about what universal health care could be. The plan that is on the table now is not perfect and it needs work. Hopefully Washington will come together and settle on a bill that is effective.
i think part of the problem is the conservative, right wing media. they have undertaken a massive media strategy of misinformation.
the universal health care plan is 'universal' in that everyone is covered. not that everyone is under the same plan. are you guys only watching "Fixed News"? If your employer currently provides insurance, they will be required to continue providing it. If your employer does not provide insurance, you'd be able to purchase insurance at a much more reasonable price. Private insurance will not go away.
so many are against the notion of universal healthcare, because they believe that all these 'undeserving people' (that conservative-speak for low income and immigrant) will have health care and we will have to pay for it. Do the math. If everyone was insured (in some fashion or another), the risk would be more widely spread, and therefore costs would be less. Have you ever worked for a ginormously large company? your out-of-pocket health costs were likely low. have you every worked for a pretty small firm? you out-of-pocket costs are much higher becuase the group being covered is much smaller.
'universal' health care would require coverage for everyone. no elimination of benefits for 'pre-existing conditions'. also, all this nonsense about how much it will cost...ummm...the soaring costs of health care is what is making the US less competitive. when baby-boomers start hitting the medicare age en masse, prepare for fall out! furthermore, costs are so high becuase of the uninsured!! uninsured use the emergency room as their health care provider, which eliminates the possiblity of early detecting or pre-screening.
supporters are not suggesting that the US should have a govenment run insurance program. I am suggesting that we need to change the angle of this debate. Health care is a civil rights issue. We are the richest nation in the world, and yet, thousands of people declare bankruptcy each year because of their crippling medical debts. visting a doctor when you dont feel well or when your 6 months pregnant or when you find a lump in your breast should not be a service only provided to us americans lucky enough to be covered by an employers group plan.
stepping off my soap box now...it just bothers me so much that so many of my fellow citizens are so apathetic and uninformed about such a major issue...
I think the debate confuses health care and health insurance. I'm not a clinician, but I do work closely with health insurance in employer benefits. I'm ready for the boos. My viewpoint is also from the employer-based system, which I do believe works, until someone loses their job or changes job or works in a job that does not offer insurance. Individual plans are the source of most of the negative facts about health insurance.
On the insurance side: It seems that people, both with Medicare and private insurance, say that something is "not covered" when they mean that they have to pay a portion of it. I understand that they pay premiums, so any additional expense is undesirable in their eyes.
On the care side: There is a problem with access to healthcare in this country. First, there aren't enough primary doctors and they get paid the least from insurance companies.
And to combine both: Doctors can't keep up with the multitude of plans and coverage options their patients have, so sometimes this means they tell their patients that their insurance won't cover XYZ and sometimes their desired treatments (often this may be defensive medicine, the doctor wants to cover themselves against potential future lawsuits).
My only argument is with the people who do not have healthcare but can afford it. In the U.S. you either have health benefits or you do not. I believe more should be done for people who do not have health benefits and cannot afford it. I believe that if you make enough money but would rather take a trip to Mexico than get insurance, you do not need it.
This is what angers me against the "The number of uninsured citizens has grown to over 45 million." argument.
There's always the option of paying extra to supplement the public option. It's not gonna be different from what happens now. People (or employer) who can afford supplemental health care gets public option + whatever goodies you think the public option lacks. The difference is = people who have pre-existing conditions and people who cannot afford, get at least something. Something is always better than nothing.
I would love hearing more about your experience too, Catlady!
My personal experience with healthcare, in general, has been this:
I work for a small company. I love my company and even though they don't offer short term benefits, the long term advantage to staying where I am is very, very great. The other two members of this company are eligible for medicare benefits and can easily get individual health insurance. I, on the other hand, found out the hard way that I cannot get individual health insurance. I have a pre-existing condition which automatically disqualifies me for any individual health insurance. It makes no sense to me that I, as someone who needs healthcare for doctor's appointments and medication refills and lab work (my lab work w/o insurance runs over $1000/round of testing), cannot get it anywhere. As a result, I had to go on COBRA for 18 months. COBRA is very expensive... for me it was $500/month just to continue the health care I was receiving before (which I got kicked off of because it was my father's health insurance and they have an age limit for how long children can be dependents). I am now on my fiance's insurance (had I not been able to do this, I would have had to go to a "risk pool" insurance... which, if I understand right, if you get assigned to this type of insurance, you won't be able to get back on "regular" health insurance).
So,.... long story short I am very pro-universal health insurance. My fiance is having to keep the job he HATES going to every day because if he were to quit and go back to school (to better his education, job opportunities, self, etc.) I would be SOL. Sadly, right now we could afford to send him to school while I work, but for my health reasons it's not possible. I'm sure my rheumatologist (the specialist I have to see every 6 mo.) would be able to hook me up with some appointments at a discount. The medicine is not too terribly expensive w/o insurance. But if something were to go wrong with my illness during that time, it would be bad and I would probably go broke from the cost of medicine/tests/etc.
If I had not had to deal with the health insurance system, I might be an adovcate against UHC. However as it stands, I have complete empathy for all those who need insurance and can't get it.
That's just my two cents, rant over .:)
Warning LONG:
All I can speak to is my own experience. At age 22, I had a pulmonary embolism resulting in prolonged cardiac arrest. (Ladies, READ THE WARNING LABEL ON BIRTH CONTROL PILLS) My doctors performed CPR for over 2 hours. Any medical professional will be able to tell you how rare and miraculous it is that I am walking, talking, feeding myself. My doctor made incredibly brave choices during my incident (using contra-indicated medication, etc) that saved my life. The aftermath was long. I was in a coma for many weeks and my kidneys stopped functioning, requiring dialysis. It was an ordeal to say the absolute least. My parents are both Ivy league educated attorneys, and navigating health insurance was a nightmare. Blue Cross tried to avoid paying the bill at every turn. They asked my boyfriend at the time every 30 minutes for my health insurance information, while his girlfriend of 3 years was dying on a table in the next room.
I manage my health now with blood thinning medication, which requires regular blood tests, and I need access to an array of physicians (kidney specialists, hematologists). When we decide to have a child, I will need a high risk OBGYN. Once I turned 23, I was kicked off my parents health plan and entered the terrifying land of being an "uninsurable American." That means the no private health care provider will give me comprehensive coverage, because I am simply too high risk. Try to understand the logic of that. I need health care the most... therefore I can't have it. We managed on COBRA, a very expensive government stop gap, until I was employed by a company with group insurance. If I didn't come from a wealthy family who was willing to pick up all uncovered medical bills and pay the $500 a month COBRA, we would have been bankrupted.
Being able to have health insurance informs every single decision we make. I don't have options about what kind of job I can have, we need to carefully time grad school, we have delayed starting a family. I am afraid every day that I will have another clot and will financially ruin not only my future, but my husbands. Frankly, I don't understand WHAT Republican law makers have to be afraid of. Universal health insurance would change our lives. It would save the lives of people too poor to get screenings. It would save our country billions of dollars in preventable diseases. It is morally just that we provide for the weakest and poorest among us. The myth of "socialized medicine" in which people wait on lists for months is just that... a myth.
I was a completely healthy person the day before this happened. I exercised, ate right, never did drugs, drank in moderation. Any single person is one day, a left hand turn, an unexpected phone call, or a tiny lump away from universal health care becoming the single most important political issue to them.
Mrs Meatball shared her health care story on her personal blog:
http://www.thebrokeassbride.com/2009/08/my-health-care-story.html
I would encourage all of you to read it before you turn to politics and pundits.
A lot of you are asking for experiences with universal healthcare and to be completely honest the only thing I can say is that it is very comforting!
We have health care (government funded) and we have our health insurance (through private companies through your employer) The government healthcare covers your BASIC healthcare - going to the doctor when you are sick, going to the emergency room for a broken leg, routine check-ups etc. All covered we do NOT PAY A CENT!!!!!! And then our health coverage covers the extras so any prescriptions you may need to pay for, vision, dental, physiotherapy, etc.
When someone in your family gets sick it is very comforting to know that it will be taken care of and you do not have to worry financially. My family particularly has had A LOT of health issues and I couldn't even imagine the state my family would be in if we had to pay for their care (or if they would even be alive). My father had a genetic heart defect that the doctors have monitored the whole entire time he has been a Canadian citizen and when it came time that they felt like it had to be taken care of he had open heart surgery, both my parents had emergency gallbladder removals, my mom has had a hip replacement, and my dad is now being treated for prostatic cancer. All covered by our universal healthcare because they were all necessary surgeries. Unnecessary surgeries have to go through your health insurance and that usually is a longer process but anything life-threatening is covered by our health care!
Of course there are going to be some horror stories but there are bad doctors EVERYWHERE and mis-diagnoses happen EVERYWHERE - you have to be in control of your own healthcare and find a good doctor and get second and third opinions!!!!
Mr. M and I are doing OK money wise but if anything happened health wise to us and we lived in the US and had to pay for it out of pocket it would set us WAY WAY back and so I find our universal healthcare very reassuring, comforting and one less thing to stress about!!!!!
Edit: Another thing that is great about universal healthcare is that vaccines are available free to the public and so when the vaccines come out the majority of our population is vaccinated decreasing risk of possible infection - which is really comforting in times like these where we are worried about possible pandemics.
"Frontline" did report last year where the reporter travelled to several countries to see how their healthcare was structured. I think it was Germany, Japan, Taiwan, and one other country I can't remember! The one question he asked of all the people he interviewed in all of these countries was "How many people go bankrupt each year due to medical bills." In each instance he was given a blank stare. It just doesn't happen in those countries. Their medical systems may not be perfect, and they were all very different from each other, but the one thing that is the same is that medicine and access to healthcare was not tied to your ability to pay for it. In those countries, people don't need to think about what might happen to them financially if they decide to go see a doctor about an issue. Everyone is covered. They pay different amounts of money and the payments are structured differently (ie in Japan the patient pays for each procedure, but the government strictly controls costs, whereas in other countries people pay an annual or monthly premium but have no out of pocket when they go to the doctor.)
I just wish more people took the time to really look at how healthcare functions in the rest of the world before deciding our way is the only way.
The majority of people do have health coverage through their work or government coverage. They are generally happy with how things work... and concerned that reform will hurt their existing coverage.
The people who have no coverage are a minority of the population... so they can't achieve reform on their own (i.e. if there was a straightup vote on giving them coverage, they would lose without support from the majority who have coverage already).
That's largely why fear has driven the discussion - the majority is concerned that they'll lose what they have already, to fund the needs of the minority. And a number of people are happy to feed those fears for various reasons (political, economic, etc.).
As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Bee hit the nail on the head. The majority of people (who have coverage) are afraid their plans will change/cost more. The people who don't have it really don't have the power to make changes, or even really make the other people understand what it's like not to be covered. It's easy for all the people who have insurance to criticize the change because they don't know what it's like to go without.
I don't think it really solves the problem of health insurance and care being too expensive. Preventitive care is SO important and there are way too many people that can't afford it so problems are exacerbated. Many people can't afford their perscriptions so they don't take their meds properly to try and stretch them out. Compared to other costs and increases in wages, health care costs have absolutely skyrocketed. Even for those of us that can afford the insurance, medical care is still pricey. As a woman, I feel like women's heath care is INSANE. There needs to be greater regulation over how the prices are being negotiated.
I think a lot of people think its akin to communism and we all know how anticommunist the American public is. Others are concerned with how the plan will address abortion.
I didn't have time to read all of the responses so I'm sorry if I'm repeating someone else. I am totally supportive of a universal healthcare system for 3 major reasons: 1) first and foremost I believe that healthcare is a human right 2) I do not believe the scare-tactic stories about other countries with universal healthcare. I'm sure that a lot of people have been mistreated and died... but I can't imagine it is more than those who die in America because their health insurance company wouldn't approve necessary surgeries. 3) I don't think the overall cost will be more expensive in the long run. I don't think people realize just how much health care costs now. It isn't just the few hundred dollars/month you pay, it is also your employers (usually) paying a thousand or more dollars for you. The costs are astronomical and when you consider what this system costs, I think taking it directly out of tax dollars would be cheaper and more fair.
That isn't to say I'm not a little scared. The unknown is always scary, and YES the government is so inefficient. But I think it's the best option.
Regardless, I think this discussion is a little moot because I don't see America going for universal healthcare any time soon. For now, we'll just have to do what we can with a the current reform plans.
To see a less dramatic, but important way health care coverage affects people in a day to day sense, just read Hisbaristas post on getting the chicken pox:
http://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/we-think-my-fi-gave-me-chicken-poxa-vent-of-sorts
No one should have to decide between paying bills and seeing a doctor.
@sjbee - good link! this kind of stuff happens all the time. Even to people who supposedly have insurance. I have insurance but when I ended up in the ER last month I ended up with crazy blls (considering I have insurance). All told I will end up paying 300-400 for a less than 2 hr ER visit with no procedures... and I HAVE insurance. sigh. the system is broken.
@ Mr. Bee and Jessie: I agree that some Americans are concerned about paying for health care for the rest of America, but I'm not certain I'd call them the "majoriy". I have to wonder what the actual percentage of Americans is that have adequate health coverage? My guess is that it is actually much less than the majority.
One question that doesn't seem to get answered is why is American health care so expensive? Is it lawsuits? the price of going to med school?
I think Med school should be like an appointment to a military academy. IF you are appointed, the government pays for your training, and then you serve the American citizens by providing care at a reasonable cost.
I'm rather uneducated on this though, I'll admidt. However, I believe health care is a basic human right for everyone.
@bamboo~ I haven't heard anybody say anything about abortion, what have you heard?
I am a conservative and do not believe ONE PARTY has the answer to this and I do not support the President's proposal as it is.
I am a medical professional by the way and treat many patients from Canada and from the UK for thyroid cancers. Many were on WAITING LISTS for treatments and had to fly themselves in on their own dime to get properly treated. If you think that there will not be a waiting list, then come down with a catastropic illness. The rate of breast ca is MUCH HIGHER as well as the mortality rate when compared to the US btw!
Before anybody goes on passing judgement on the right or the Republicans, ask yourself this..(I already know the answer!)
Has the LEFT AND LIBERALS even bothered TO ASK US FOR OUR HELP in reform and LISTEN TO OUR IDEAS WHICH CAN HELP?
There are other alternatives to creating a socialist type of healthcare system.
If you want this, all I say is look at the VA healthcare system. I know it very well and I find it DEPLORABLE how they treat our American Heroes! They are heroes.
I am also horrified that President Obama's administration has resurrected the handbook called "Your Life Your Choices" where it basically steers a veteral with serious health issues to die. It's Awful..and it is REAL.
Get educated on it as I have. READ THE BILL. But realize that NOT ONE PARTY can solve the issue. It will take ALL AMERICANS AND ELECTED OFFICIALS WORKING TOGETHER.
@ KateMW & Bamboo: I would assume that some church-going Americans would be extremely against any sort of plan where their tax dollars pay for abortions. The whole "live begins at conception" "abortion is killing a child" etc. argument.
I do want solutions asap for those who are between jobs, who are between the ages of 55-65 and retired but pre-legal retirement age and don't wish to pay for it for those who are not citizens of our country.
whoa...how did this turn into an abortion discussion? who has health insurance that pays for abortion? see...yet another example of misinformation. unless it is out of medical necessity, I am pretty sure no insurance covers elective abortion. please. let's not take the conversation in that direction.
@CHK a lot of doctors actually make a lot less than you'd think. Especially general practioners, which is really scary because there is going to be a SERIOUS shortage of GPs in the coming years. I'm a lawyer and I have no problem saying, there absolutely needs to be tort reform to help with medical malpractice suits. A lot of suits really are frivolous-- doctors are people who make mistakes and we can't hold them to a standard of perfection without discouraging people from entering the field. I don't feel this is "most" of the cost problem though. The problem (in my opinion) is insurance companies and phramacuetical companies. People say that if drugs can't be patented that no one will go into research and development... I say, REALLY? Tell me there wouldn't be people out there who would work their lives trying to cure cancer and autism and parkinsons for the satisfaction, the notoriety, and historical significance of having done so. Drugs are a billions of dollar a year business because they come out with new drugs that do essentially the same thing as old drugs, patent them, bribe doctors to prescribe them, etc. I could go into lots more about this but I don't want to write a book.
As for insurance companies.. have you ever looked at your medical statements? I had urine dip for UTI that the hospital charged $143 for. The health insurance company "negotiated" the price to $4.23 and said that I was responsible for 100% of that. Ummm thanks I guess because that is cheap for me (although I did already pay a big premium so why are you not covering anything), but how is the hospital making money off of that? Who is making a profit here? The insurance company who takes my money and doesn't pay the hospital. Hospitals have to overcompensate for the monopoly of insurance companies by overcharging for everything, and the cycle continues. It is all just ridiculously broken.
@ bellenga: your post highlights the politics involved in the issue and how strongly people feel about it.
If only we could boil it down to the simple issue: does every American deserve access to health care, regardless of income (or lack thereof). I belive they do.
citizens of our country? are you serious? only american citizens deserve healthcare in america? if that is the case, then all corporations and individuals should stop profiting from the labor of "non-citizens".
and healthcare for all does not make us socialists! it does make us socially responsible.
Oh also-- (wow I just keep thinking of more stuff!). Two more huge problems with our current medical system: I am self-employed and so I have to get private insurance. First, it took me months of talking to high-risk insurance brokers to find anyone who would even take me because (get ready for it) I had ONE "slightly abnormal" pap smear. That is "precancerous" and thus I became uninsurable! Then, even when I found insurance, I found out that the only way to get insurance that covers pregnancy is to pay literally 1/3 of my take-home salary/month! So now I'm stuck with insurance that is already expensive, pretty crappy, and if I get preggo? I am SOL.
@CHK~ I am very strongly pro-choice, that was why I was curious what was being said.
It is the government in control which is a socialistic measure.
of COURSE EMERGENCIES and unexpected illnesses are to happen and I'd want to always help them for that. But using a system repeatedly for years when you are not a citizen of that country or gone thru some legal channels to change your residence somehow does bother me because it's my taxpayer dollars.
I certainly wouldn't expect to visit or go to a foreign country and demand my free healthcare. My insurance also covers my vists and unexpected emergencies in foreign countries.
Re: abortion, I believe the bill has some sort of explicit provision where tax dollars don't pay for abortion. Conservatives have been saying that they don't believe that that will end up being the case, but they also say that the bill will "require euthanasia" or have "death panels," which like many of their other claims is untrue. Universal health care would not pay for voluntary abortions. I hope this thread doesn't become about abortion.
They way I see it, health care in this country is an absolute mess. We have such fine care to offer, but access is restricted to the rich, those with generous employers, the married (and therefore heterosexual), and the old. I would guess that the current proposal has serious flaws, but until we actually TRY something, we KNOW it will remain a mess.
This article offers an interesting insight into why health care can be so expensive and high cost, and how certain health centers (the Mayo clinic, for example) offer high quality care and have lower expenses. It's largely the way access and compensation are structured.
@Corgi~ Unfortunately, while there are people out there willing to spend their lives doing the research, how are they supposed to be paid if you can't patent what they make? Where is the money supposed to come from? Yes, drugs are overpriced, but there has to be money to do the research. There should be a huge overhaul with the selling and prescribing drugs though. Drug reps piss me off.
@bellegna I don't think there needs to be any nastiness in this debate but this issue is way too important to allow your claims to go unanswered. I lived for several years in Germany, a fully socialzed health care system. I never had to wait to see a doctor. Ever, not once. You cannot base claims about people dying on waiting lists and quality of care of purely annecdotal evidence. It is a myth, plain and simple.
I believe the real divide on the health care issue, occured when Sarah Palin came out with the fictitious "death panels." Republican law makers have shown themselves unwilling to work together. The Your Life Your Choices section of the bill is about pallative care. It is about INFORMING, and in no way requiring, patients about their options. I, for one, am grateful my grandmother choose to die with hospice care. She realized she had reached then end of her life, and instead of leaving the world in an ICU, she died to bed surrounded by her family. I in no way see the danger of letting people with terminal illnesses know they have options in dictating the circumstances of their deaths.
I also think you would do yourself a favor, in terms of 'being educated,' to research the difference in mortality rate from breast cancer (indeed, all cancer) between uninsured and insured women.
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