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So, wow, what a discussion yesterday huh hive?
Thank you so much for all your support and opinions on this ridiculous email we received (although coming from an understandable place).
While many of you suggested we just reply: 'we'll take that as a no"... my FI had already responded explaining how everything she had said was so hurtful, and that if she didn't understand that, then he wasn't sure what else to say. She actually responded with a quite reconcilatory tone:
"I'm sorry that my views on weddings offend you, but these are my views on weddings in general, not my view on your wedding in particular. You're right I probably should have kept these thoughts to myself. I'm sorry I hurt you. I can't pretend to understand why all of this is so important to you, but it clearly is, and you are important to me."
So, obviously this changes things quite a bit. FI is willing to forgive her....but yeah. That all hurt quite a bit. Not so easy to walk away from. He doesn't really know how to respond. I think maybe just an ok or something short. To me it seems like she doesn't really get it. He says given her personality, that's probably as close to an apology as he'll get.
I still think we don't invite Joe though!!
good! glad she apologised...and glad you're still standing your ground!
Wow. I guess that is an apology. I can see though that she just doesn't get it, especially the "I can't pretend to understand why all of this is so important to you, but it clearly is, and you are important to me" comment.
It is not for her to understand what is important to you or your FI.
Ah, good luck with that!
I'm glad she apologized too, although it wasn't a very good one. She's certainly entitled to her opinion on weddings, but I don't think it's her place to let you two know that your wedding is not how SHE thinks they should be. Personally, I don't think you even want this sort of personality at your wedding!
And this is why we should all THINK before we act, eh?
Maybe just responding with, "Alright, thank you for your thoughts" or something really blah like that.
I'm going to have to agree with ejs4y8. I would respond in a very non-descript way. If the friendship will be saved, let it be done after the wedding. Who needs that kind of drama??
That's like when my husband apologizes by saying "I'm sorry that you got mad at me" WTF? I would leave it all until after the wedding. I still say NO TO JOE!
@ KateMW - Thats exactly what I was thinking. It drives me crazy when FH says something like "I'm sorry you're mad". Um, don't be sorry I'm mad, be sorry for the stupid thing you did to make me mad!!
I was really hoping this girl would come to her senses and offer a real apology but clearly thats not going to happen!
Wow!! That is one crazy situation! Why do weddings bring the crazy out in everyone?!!
I say just invite Joe and move on! I find that when we take a stand during our wedding planning it's those "stands" we often regret later on! We come to realize that it wasn't worth all the hurt!
Just my two cents ...
I'm still on team "No Joe". If FI is important to her-she'll show up and shut up. Just write back "thank you-I appreciate the email and we hope to see you on our special day" and leave it at that.
Whoa-- I never saw that one coming! That actually sounded like a genuine apology. For someone who made her original opinion so vehemently known, I would say it is significant that she wrote this. Personally, I would lean towards making amends. But importantly, you are well within your right to just cross her off the friend/invite list. Your day should be drama-free and you don't need her spoiling it with negativity or passive-aggressive comments.
On a related note, I have a friend who would receive scathing then sweet emails from a particular person. True story-- turned out she had dissociative identity disorder (multiple personalities). Just sayin.... ;o)
It's pretty surprising that she actually admitted that she was harsh, but that still wasn't exactly an apology...I agree, I think you should send her a short email back saying something non-descript and allowing her to come if she so chooses, but her behavior definitely wouldn't warrant an invite for Joe from me!
well i guess thats the closest thing to apology you will get. I would leave it as, you are invited and your dude is not. I hope you still come to celebrate out marriage.
Man I hope she gets engaged REALLY soon - then her perspective will change a bit!
haha, thanks guys. Yeah it's kinda a tough one I feel like. It's a semi-apology from someone who is apologizing for the hurt, not what she said. FI would like to calm the waters so to speak, and doesn't really want to invite Joe at this point, but at the same time, doesn't necessarily want to be a dick about it...
oy. weddings, huh? I think maybe we should just say, thank you, we hope to see you at our wedding. And then if we do actually have extra space maybe include Joe, but if not, no sweat. Thoughts? Some of you vehemently think we shouldn't invite Joe at this point?
Fi wants to say : OK, I appreciate that you recognize what you said hurt me. You are, of course, entitled to your opinions, as I am to mine.
I would invite Joe just to move past the drama and to be the (WAY) bigger people in this situation. You can re-evaluate the friendship with her post-wedding.
kara - I was just going to suggest the same thing. Just say thanks, we hope you can make it and then if a spot opens up you can decide if you want to offer it to him then. See how you feel when the time comes. If she declines right off the bat without waiting to see if he can come then she just solved your problem for you.
I read the thread yesterday and while I understood the responses defending her b/c she hasn't planned a wedding and doesn't know, I have to say I completely disagree with the way she handled this. Regardless of her experiences it is down right rude to question someone's choices when they do not really directly pertain to you and are not a life or death situation (IMHO). People need to learn boundries.
best of luck to you!
Thanks Habibi. I think our plan is to do exactly.
FI's new planned (not sent yet) response is this:
"OK, I appreciate that you recognize what you said hurt me. I will watch our numbers, and see if we can add him as I said before. If we are not able to, you are of course free to decline the invitation. Let's just move past it, ok?"
Thoughts on this response?
My thoughts are that you two are very kind and generous people :)
I'm not sure I would have been so awesome about it!
In rereading it, I can definitely see how this is a half-apology.
Ugh. I guess I was just stunned bc I was expecting her anti-upscale wedding rant to continue. I might would throw Joe the invite if, and only if, you guys had covered all the rest of your b-list.
yeah no it's true, beffielou. It's just funny because I don't know that I would consider our wedding so upscale! ;) We did choose to have it in Cincinnati instead of DC to save a bunch!
@star: thanks, haha! I don't know about that, but we're certainly trying. Losing friends is not really a nice outcome of something that's supposed to be so special so I think we'd like to avoid any more loss if we can.
@flamingred: thanks, I appreciate it!
I'm not sure I would've responded at all... at this point everything that needs to be said has been. Is there really a reason to reiterate the things that have already been said? This may just ignite her again since as of now there's still no room for Joe...
@Kara, I think that's a good way to go. Making the peace is not always easy but takes the bigger person.
You and your FI are being way more mature than her. Maybe she'll feel really guilty and not want to come, regardless, out of embarassment. Boy, I sure wouldn't.
Maybe she was PMSing, LOL.
I liked the planned response, but you might also indicate you'd like to meet Joe at some point.
So just for clarity, let's break this down a bit:
"I'm sorry that my views on weddings offend you" = NOT an apology, rather this is another insult
but these are my views on weddings in general, not my view on your wedding in particular = Still not an apology, just an excuse for being a raging bitch
You're right I probably should have kept these thoughts to myself = oooh we're getting close to an apology, at least she's admitting that she's wrong
I'm sorry I hurt you = Wow, an apology
I can't pretend to understand why all of this is so important to you = Oh dang, just negated the apology but being a raging bitch again
but it clearly is = brilliant statement of the obvious, hello, you're getting married for life, not celebrating just another birthday or something.
and you are important to me = a last ditch attempt to say something nice, but if we go with the old addage "actions speak louder than words," she's shown that no one is more important to her than herself.
So in my calculations this "apology" is just another raging bitch email.
I'm really sorry you have to deal with this. In my experience with cranky clients, friends and family, it's best not to escalate by trying to have the last word. This email really does not need a response. I think she's made it very clear that she's not coming. You may want to have an empty seat available in case she shows, but for now I'd let it go and wait for her to call with a real apology.
I think you should invite Joe.
She may have gone about it the wrong way, but I think she let you know that Joe is someone that's important to her and at this point I'd say take the higher road and invite him. She's supposed to be one of your best friends, and it would be a shame to hurt the friendship over the wedding (which is supposed to bring people together).
Don't hold a grudge just b/c she has been emotionally scarred by weddings...mend the friendship, invite the new guy.
@runningbee: ha! love your linguistical analysis! :D
@volleybride: I think we may invite him if we have the space. You are right that Joe is obviously important to her.
You know, I was just thinking yesterday that her original email sounded just like a rant someone might post on an 'I hate weddings' blog ... it was a very calm, very thought out diatribe, but completely inappropriate to send to a friend regarding a simple question of 'will you be attending my wedding?'.
I mean, seriously, it wasn't her attitude regarding weddings that offended your fiance, it was her attitude to HIS wedding that offended him.
It doesn't sound as if she will be attending the wedding anyway, but I think you should be glad - why would you want somewhere there who was clearly so against it, and didn't see "why all of this is so important to you" (seriously? She can't understand why your wedding is important to you?)
So the craziest part of this is that you're STILL waiting on her rsvp, right? Has she actually said one way or the other if she's coming or not?
That does not sound like an apology to me. "Those are my feelings about weddings in general, not just your wedding" Total BS, I don't believe it for a second. She would be singing a different tune if she were engaged too or if she wasn't so dead set on killing two birds with one stone by using you and your FH. Also, let's not get delusional about this - she is talking about YOUR wedding whether she likes it or not, not weddings in general.
This girl still sounds way too selfish to me. I would cut her out. Actually my response to her would be "It doesn't seem like our wedding is going to be convenient for you or the best opportunity for us to meet Joe given our budget constraints. Why don't we get together sometime after the wedding for an intimate dinner party". That way you're telling her in a nice way that she's not coming to your wedding, but extending the olive branch since your FH still wants to be friends with her.
is a semi-passive apology that still is telling you to suck it up - im still in the say no to joe camp
youre a better person than i am
Wow I would stick to your original plan of inviting him if you have space!
If you want to - I probably wouldn't!!!!
In reading yesterdays post (Yikes!) and today's apology (which isn't really a true apology) I have to say that she sounds like someone who is emotionally immature. Perhaps someone who spends too much time in her head, intellectualizing things that for many people are very emotional. I have friends like this. Sometimes they just don't "get it" and their empathy muscles are decidedly atrophied. Hopefully as she gets older and has more life experiences she will learn to let go a little (of her staunch opinions, of the need to be emotionally in control) and just experience and be.
@kara - not sure if you sent the email off yet, but I would leave off the part about feeling free to decline the invitation and just add something like "Please let us know by X date if you will be attending or not". She sounds like a friend of mine who is very bitter about weddings as well and her pride would respond EXACTLY the same way. I was in the pro-joe camp, but now I say - she's a big girl - her response was fine and it's time to move on to happier things!
That's a pretty lousy apology, but whatever. I'd be surprised if this friendship extends beyond the wedding at this point. :( But at least she's trying to make nice.
I still don't think you should invite Joe. I could totally understand this response if, let's say, they'd recently gotten engaged and you couldn't find room for her FI, or if he was her husband and had gotten left off the invite. Those are social units, and it would pretty much universally (according to Western culture ettiquette gurus) be your gaffe to begin with. This? Not so much. She ranted at you, and I really don't think you should bend to it.
My 2 cents in addition to the above - stop the email exchange and have your FI pick up the phone and talk directly! email often escalates things beyond where they should go.....if she really is a good friend, then its ok to forgive her. That is what friends do!
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