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Since I've joined the bee I keep reading posts from american bees, some of them mentioning how they have this or that health issue but can't have it treated because of no health insurance.
Then today I read this
http://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/thinking-about-an-er-visit
It just makes me angry and I cannot believe people in the world's supposedly most advanced nation have to go through this!!!!!
I'm originally from a developing south american country and even there, the government provides health care for ALL. Granted, the quality and availability of such health care isn't amazing, but at least the principle is there, and all agree that healthcare is responsibility of the government!!! Is it not more important than maintaining roads, schools etc??? How can it be accepted that healthcare is not the government's responsibility!!!
I don't understand!!! Someone enlighten me please!!!!
Could you come over to the united states and please be an advocate for us to see the light and dump our idiot health care policies?
I hate our health care. America is very much 'everyone for themselves', and the message is, unless you are killing yourself at a 40/hr week job with little to no vacation/sick time, then why do you deserve health care?
Believe me, you are not the only one that wonders this. As a nation, we can be very selfish. We don't always look out for the greater good. There are many great pros to living in this country, but...there are also many cons. Why we do not put the health of our citizens first, I will never understand. Thank god I am a healthy person, otherwise I do not know what I would do. I fear everyday that I will some how lose my health benefits, because I don't know what I would do. It is impossible to afford coverage out of pocket.
When I think about the service I receive at government sponsored services (post office, etc.) it makes me really nervous to hand over ALL of our healthcare responsibilities to the government. One sponsored option for the government to provide care for those who don't have health insurance is a great idea. But I don't think it should completely replace all of the privately owned and privately funded organizations that raise millions of dollars and develop countless vaccines, cures, and advancements in medicine.
I would LOVE the government to really step up its game in a lot of areas but ultimately I think that Americans as a whole would have a really hard time paying the taxes necessary to enact those policies.
I think that people get so hung up on what cut the governement is taking and not really thinking about what they could get in return (a higher quality of life for one). I get so sad thinking about student loans and non-existant maternity leave-- I am lucky though and have health coverage through my employer.
Even if America ever offers it, they will run it into the ground like Social Security and everything else they have their hands on.
Depressing.
Well we do have medicare and medicaid which are government programs that cover a lot of people.
Also its not really hard to get coverage. IE you only have to work 20 hours at Starbucks to get medical coverage. I know many people that have done this.
There is private insurance
There is a spouses insurance if your own employer doesnt provide it.
Educational institutions provide affordable coverage if you dont have it and attend one.
You can be on your parents coverage until you are 25
There is cobra if someone is laid off
So really there is a ton of options, you just have to know what they are and be willing to work for it or make a few sacrifices.
I have a large medical issue and I make it a priority to always have insurance.
Most Americans would like to have universal health care. Especially the uninsured ones. Insurance companies do not want that. One of these has more money than the other... guess who wins.
Well, there are several parts to this equation. First of doctor's salaries are really high here in the U.S. compared to other countries. Also, people here are unwilling to pay the higher taxes that would guarantee us education and universal healthcare (too Socialist for them). And lastly, there are a lot of people who have a very Libertarian viewpoint, as in, "Why should the government be required to give you you medical care?"
So, until those issues are addressed, we will not have adequate healthcare for most of the population. That said, I'm told that the hospitals and facilities in Britain and Canada are awful compared to our private hospitals. So, if you can afford it or you have insurance, you're at least guaranteed a nicer hospital room. lol
I know my opinion differs vastly from the majority, but I'd rather skimp and save and due without other luxuries and be able choose/pay for my own care. I would hate to have healthcare provided for me at the risk that it wasn't the best quality or readily available. Healthcare is expensive, yes...And there have been many times in my life where I've gone without alot of other luxuries (cable, eating out, movies, minimal grocery budget, etc) in order to pay for the healthcare. With that aside, I do believe there needs to be reform and things changed....but government provided healthcare is not something I am pro.
The NHS isn't perfect, but it works when it comes to feeling unwell or needing urgent medical treatment, there's nothing better than knowing that you don't have to worry about paying for it all at the end! It sucks enough losing out on work/school, without getting a nice bill at the end! The system has flaws, sure. But I personally feel like it works, as someone who has needed constant medical help from birth (I have chronic asthma, along with several other medical issues) I appreciate that I don't have to worry about paying for the medication that saves my life. I've only recently started paying prescription charges, but I don't mind because it's worth paying the small price for something I rely on.
I agree with the OP, I think everyone should be entitled to healthcare provided by the government. It might be expensive for them... but it's the best use of taxes in my opinion! It baffles me how they don't have it already, or haven't had it for years!
One thing I wish they WOULD charge for over here though, is paying for delivery of babies and any drugs they decide to have, like they do in the States. Would lower our birthrate DRAMATICALLY, I think :D
I can't speak to Britain or Canada, but I find that my medical care in Sweden is comparable to what I received (insured) in the US. My dad died of cancer in the US. After all the insurance &c. the remaing balance was slightly over a quarter million dollars. They were sending him collection notices in hospice. His house, his business, the things he'd worked his whole life building... it's all gone to cover those bills. That would never happen here.
I'm really against National Health Care. I agree with those who have said they would never trust the government to provide adequate care. Therefore, there would still need to a private option for those who can afford it. So in order to get the care I want I would have to continue to pay for private insurance (at a much higher price because the cost would be spread among less people) AND have to pay taxes to cover the insurance of all of those who can't afford private health care. So they get free health care (which isn't even that great), and I get screwed. I think improving Medicare and Medicaid is a much better option that nationalizing health care. You have to remember that America is a country built on the fundamentals of capitalism and so we should ideally try to avoid situations allowing for freeloaders whenever possible.
"We should ideally try to avoid situations allowing for freeloaders whenever possible."
Yeah I just hate it when the working poor go and get cancer! Why should they deserve proper medical treatment? They could just be freeloading off of the government!
Has anyone been to the post office? Where they've got 1 person working and you have to stand in line for an hour and then someone is annoyed when they must help you? (Please no one take offense to this - it is a general blanket statement of experieces and by no means speaks for all post offices).
I would not like my doctor's visits to be like that. I am all for everyone getting health care because we are all humans and of value. However, what happens when the government can't budget correctly and health care runs out of money? Then what do we do? I also don't want to bust my hump becuase I have to pay for myself AND the lazy dude who doesn't want to get a job. (yes, again - blanket statement. I understand the job market sucks right now). The flip side of that opinion is how do we tell the difference between guy who CAN'T get a job and guy who WON'T? I have no idea.
There are many arguments on both sides of the coin and folks are probably never going to agree, but it is interesting to get opinions from PPs in other countries.
eh I think you're paying for the "lazy dude who doesn't want to get a job" now while he is on medicaid AND additionally you're paying for yourself.
I work in healthcare and I think in general as a country we need to focus more on preventative medication. We also need to learn how to die sometimes. The amount of money we spend on the last six months of life trying to get every last day possible is baffling sometimes. We spend a lot of money as a nation on chemo and interventions in terminal patients and that could be money better spent.
I just think that someone having to weigh the benefits of going to the ER b/c they can't breathe is really sad and there are a lot more working poor than lazy people who don't 'want to work'.
@PutABirdOnIt: I've been to hospitals in both Canada and the UK and they're not awful... They're ok, there are doctors, people get seen, etc etc. Obviously some of them might not be state of the art, but that's much more preferable than not having free healthcare...
@MyFavouriteChords: Preventative medicine -- YES!!! A great money-saving option.
I've had private, individual coverage since I got off my parents health care. I would not want the government to be in charge of my healthcare, but that's just my opinion.
Hahah. Seeing my commie Swedish doctor has never been as irritating as a trip to the US post office. By the way, we don't have government post offices. My local "post office" is in the grocery store. It used to be at the gas station, but I think the grocery store won the bid when the contracts expired or something. Which means my "post office" is open from 9am to 10pm, even on weekends. :)
I'm not saying you should abolish private health care. I'm ALL for private health care, I use it in the UK and in Brazil (where I'm from) and I really didn't like it when I had to use the NHS in the UK.
BUT...
I think that, for those who cannot afford private health care, there MUST be an option. The government shouldn't be allowed to let people die because they don't have $100k to pay for their cancer treatment.
I know that I end up paying with my taxes for those people who choose not to work, and trust me, that annoys me A LOT. But then I also end up paying for those who cannot afford to work, single mothers who need to take care of their small children, pensioners who have worked their entire life and now deserve to be looked after. And I don't mind that at all.
@MrsSl82be: that's fine, but you would always have that option!!!!! How about people who don't have ANY health care because they can't afford it??? shouldn't they be allowed to see a doctor when they were having a heart attack????
This has been my experience:
Also its not really hard to get coverage. IE you only have to work 20 hours at Starbucks to get medical coverage. I know many people that have done this. Not everyone can do this because they do not want to work with the schedule of my 1st job which I cannot afford to quit.
There is private insurance-Denied for pre-existing condition.
There is a spouses insurance if your own employer doesnt provide it.-At huge costs with my FI's company (and again, would have to wait until we are married).
Educational institutions provide affordable coverage if you dont have it and attend one. I have an awesome doctor that has gotten me healthy again and cannot take the risk
You can be on your parents coverage until you are 25
There is cobra if someone is laid off - Not offered for small companies in my state, so Cobra was not an option.
So really there is a ton of options, you just have to know what they are and be willing to work for it or make a few sacrifices. Not entirely true.
I have a large medical issue and I make it a priority to always have insurance. I have as well... but look at my situation. And, I cannot get my hands on another job that will have full benefits - my resume just seems to stay in cyperspace.
@MrsCoachBtoBee: because you cannot at times differentiate between those two groups of people, you MUST allow everyone to have a minimal level of health care.
Honestly, I cannot believe this has turned into a discussion. It's so simple. You cannot let people die without seeing a doctor because they don't have a job. It's fine to have different levels of care (private gets seen quicker, more qualified doctors etc), but you need to treat everyone!!!
@mrsBtoBee: Of course, but I don't want to have to use MY money to pay for it. I have my own healthcare that I pay every month, and I can barely afford it, but I keep it because I have way too many doc visits in a year. I already pay so much in taxes, that I don't think I should have to pay more because of people who can't afford it. There are so many other things they could do - actually force people off welfare who have no reason not to work, stop allowing illegal immigrants MORE rights that citizens.
People who do not have health insurance have access to places where they can pay by a scale dependent on how much they make. More people should go there if they cant afford health care on their own
@mrsBtoBee: I agree. I would take a much shabbier hospital if I could have free healthcare. No doubt:)
@mrsBtoBee: It's something I'm on the fence about. On one hand, I wish it was much cheaper (I can't even go to the dr. now myself because of money). But on the other, I don't think having completely government run healthcare will help either. The fear I have (I'm not sure about others) is that if it is all government run, what will the quality of healthcare be like?
@MyFavouriteChords: You know, 3 years ago I would have agreed with you. But, since I have had 3 close family members be diagnosed with cancer in those past years and 2 have survived, I don't buy that argument anymore. People surprise you and will pull through when you think they can't sometimes. Would you not do the same for your mother? grandfather?
@Elvis: hah! I wish our post offices were in grocery stores! Then I could do 2 errands at once.
@mrsBtoBee: I agree completely!! However, it's one of those things that in theory is fabulous but in practice becomes very unfair/burdensome to those who are working hardest.
Can I just draw a simple parallel? Education. If you can afford it, you send your children to private schools. If you cannot afford it, you send them to public schools. Would it be fair to abolish public schools, and make everyone pay for private schools? How about when the parents of a child couldn't afford it?? And why should this child be allowed to die without treatment for an illnes???
The US apparently has had money to carry on with useless space missions until now, and wage wars abroad, but apparently no money to build public hospitals??
I still cannot believe.
there are a lot of things wrong with the way this country operates. what should come first is the well-being of humanity and it doesn't. however, a lot of countries are worse off than the US, so there is a positive to it all.
@MASPA: of course, i agree, but i think this should be number 1 priority!!!
That post was made by me.
I can give you my experience.
I had a medical card my entire life until I turned a certain age at which it ended. I got a temp card that lasted three months. During those three months I had two ER visits & one I still had to pay for in full. The second I had to pay a fee of 145 dollars. So most of it was covered. Then after it ended my husband & I went to purchase health insurance through our car insurance. I got denied for having anything diabetic related to be covered on it. So we passed it up. We do not have work health insurance but my husband is trying to get hired for a position at his work place that has health insruance. Until then I found out about a place I can go that goes by your income & another that is like a free health clinic but not completely free, but not costly. I am going to look into both in the next few weeks. If those aren't what I am looking for we are heading to the social security office to see what I can do & what I can apply for.
Thanks to all the bee's wonderful ladies with awesome information & tips!
@MrsSl82be: I agree with the second part of your post: I have some chronic medical issues and am prone to skin cancer so I found a doctor who was willing to charge me only $50.00 a visit and I had to fill out some paperwork so I could get free/sliding scale care. It takes time but it is available. Oh, and I managed to get low-cost drug coverage too.
So yes, it is possible to get affordable healthcare without insurance. It just takes a bit of work and research.
@MrsSl82be: I think it's important to point out that you are still paying for it, although indirectly. As insurance and care costs have skyrocketed, more and more people have defaulted on bills. Hospitals take some of that as a loss, but some of the cost is passed on to taxpayers. There have been studies that have shown that in the long run, it would save our country millions of dollars to have nationalized health care. So, you may not think you're paying for other people, but really, you are.
@mrsBtoBee: it should be. when i was younger i used to ask my mother why she chose to immigrate us here and she always replied with "it was cheaper than europe". ha
I had out-of-pocket insurance for a time. It was pricey AND crappy. They actually told me when I got it, "You better not get pregnant or you'll get kicked off." But it was what I could afford. Luckily, I didn't get knocked up.
DH had an emergency appendectomy which his insurance back then would not cover, citing it as an "elective surgery." I guess because he elected to not die from a burst appendix? IDK. So that was awesome too.
I agree with universal health care. Sure, it will not be perfect. But when I see the crap insurance companies currently get away with on people--and our issues were not even that serious as you can see!!--I don't put all my faith in the wonders of privatization either.
There are a lot of very valid points being made here, but I want to touch on something that I'm not sure has been mentioned. Lots of people fall between the different categories; Our family for example. Together, our combined salaries are too much for us to qualify for medicaid, etc for our healthcare. But, we don't make enough to pay for private or employer offered insurance because we wouldn't have enough money to live day to day, or pay our bills, etc. So what the hell are families like us supposed to do? Yes, there are clinics, and usually they provide adequate care at a low enough cost, but if prescriptions are required, that's out of pocket, too, and not always cheap, even when it's generic. And anything ER related is near to out of the question, because even with indigent care (can't be refused treatment because of inability to pay), there's still a bill, albiet a reduced one, still costly and out of pocket for those of us that are on a budget already.
The state of our country's healthcare/insurance practices (financially speaking, that is) is a sad situation all around, and will take a long time to remedy. When politics can be removed from it all, then, I think, progress can be made. I won't hold my breath.
To me, it is beyond insane that we, US citizens, subsidize the rest of the world in medical research and development because we don't not have a single payer system to negotiate drug prices while most of the developed countries in the world do. Really. It's awesome.
@LemonJack: Oh I know, but I also believe that nationalized health care would make me pay more. I can't really see how it would make our tax bill go down, unless they plan on paying doctors and nurses less, which is a whole different can of worms.
I hope that health care reform makes it more affordable for people with private health care as well. my husband I have the exact same policy, but both as individuals. I called the company to see about putting us both on the same plan, and it would have cost us almost $100 more a month to be on the same plan. So we left it the way it was.
@Mrs.Estep: I know this doesn't help now, but I wanted to let you know that when your health care coverage ends with a company, they send you something called a Certificate of Coverage, which basically says that you were covered from this date to that date. As long as you were continuously covered with no lapse, then a company cannot deny you coverage, or give you pre existing conditions on a policy.
I was covered under my dads policy, then once I was too old for that, immidately got coverage on my own, which I was given 2 preexisting conditions, and they offered me MHIP (Maryland Health Insurance Plan) which is basically coverage for people who are denied health care. But, since I knew they couldn't do this, I sent them copies of my Certificate of Coverage along with about 60 pages of reports from my doctors proving that I was under constant care from them and following their plan for getting better. It took about a month of review, but I finally got a letter from them with sincere apologies, along with a copy of the policy I originally applied for, with no pre existing conditions.
I really think a lot more people would be in a better position if they knew how healtcare works, and how to protect themselves
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