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1) Ignore what I said before; I misunderstood the situation, ha.
2) You phrase it precisely the way you just did; that you don't want to move in with him until there's a firmer commitment involved. But be clear that you are giving him a choice; a forced proposal would be worse than no proposal at all.
Hopefully, if he sees that you need a stronger commitment to continue with your relationship (via you moving out, etc.), he will understand that you're serious about it. GL, and many hugs. Be strong.
I don't think you should worry about whether moving in was the right decision - it's done now and there's not much point stressing about that. Just need to look forward. To me what sounds like more of a mistake would be leaving him to be closer to your mother and friends. If I was your boyfriend that would have been a sign to me that you weren't as committed, or that other people were more important. Of course people would argue that maybe if you were engaged you would have stayed, or that a job should come first, etc. and I could have it totally wrong. But if my partner left me like that I would probably be reconsidering marriage. Alternatively he could just be waiting until you are living in the same town/house again before he proposes. I think you'll only know if you ask and he feels comfortable enough giving you the real answer. Good luck, I know it's not easy.
i was in the samesituation i was with my fiance for exactly 3 years until he proposed he did it the night of our 3 year anniversary!!! but i did tell him that if he didnt want a future with me then as much as i loved him not to waste my time and break my heart but telling me no to marriage. HELLO we are all girls and as girls we want the same thing (if you like it then you should put a ring on it) but my patience paid off and he FINALLY proposed oh and ps we moved intogether after the 1st week of knowing each other we didnt start dating until 2 months!!! crazy i know but we were enthralled with each other!!!!
@mountain.bride: Excellent point made about not worry if moving in together was a mistake (as far as expecting marriage goes) because it already happened-- I need to remind myself about that! Both of us left our jobs and neither one of us planned to live in that town anymore. He plans to move here too in the next few months but he thinks we're going to move into together and our lives together will continue. In the short run, I'm all for it because we're great together but in the long run, I don't want to be with anyone that does not want the same thing. He can talk about living together, buying a house together, "our kids", but he talk about marriage and he's running for the hills. I must be missing something here :)
So you were living together, then you moved back closer to home, now he's gonna follow but he's expecting to live with you like before? Yeah definitely put your foot down because in this case, I see it as him getting in that "What's the rush?" mentality and engagement not happening any time soon if you live together. You moving out, and then subsequently not allowing him to move back without a firmer commitment is a great idea and totally implementing The Plan as per Mr. Bee. Nice work. :)
What exactly is he saying when he "gets angry and walks away?" That's really inappropriate behavior when you're bringing up marriage with a guy you've been with for three years. Unless you are nagging... but, you don't seem like the type. Also, how old are you two? Unless you guys are super young, there's no reason to not be bringing up marriage talk at this point.
@littlemissmango: Once he said "we are not ready to get married"...this was a few months ago. His thing is he sees dollar signs when we talk about marriage and as I explained to him, it's not about money (wedding ceremony) it's about marriage (our life together...it's FREE to talk about this). He turned 30 this past May and I will be 29 next month. I completely agree that essentially the ball is my court now and I need to put my foot down and not move in together until I hear what he wants for our future. Waiting is certainly no fun:)
"He can talk about living together, buying a house together, "our kids", but he talk about marriage and he's running for the hills."
That sounds familiar! My boyfriend and I have been together since we were teenagers, and we've always talked about "when we have kids/house/dogs" etc. And for awhile, he would drop cute hints about rings and marriage. And then he stopped. I think once we hit our mid-twenties, were out of college and nothing was really stopping us from talking marriage, things got a little too real. He spent a long time unsure of whether he wanted a family (he had a bad one growing up), and he didn't feel like he could move forward and marry me until he was sure he was OK with having kids someday. He had a hard time talking about it, too - the emotionally heavy conversations were difficult for him, and he often got frustrated and tried to end the conversation. Is it possible that there's some specific issue about marriage that your SO is worried about but has a hard time talking about?
As someone who's been there, I tend to agree with you about waiting to move in until you have a clearer picture. I didn't see that far ahead, and we had already lived together for several years before the "do we want the same things?" convo happened. Yes, you can always move out, but I was facing that possibility about a year ago, and it was incredibly daunting. You have to figure out who gets what things, furniture, the cats, the apartment...it would make a hard situation even harder.
@Lalai: "Is it possible that there's some specific issue about marriage that your SO is worried about but has a hard time talking about?"
Yes, his parents got divorced when he was 2 years old. He was raised by his mom and stepfather. He didn't have a close relationship with his dad until his late teenage years. Now he is close to his dad, they talk every day, but their relationship gets rocky at times; he resents his dad for all the years lost. I think it's very powerful that you mention this b/c I know he thinks about his parents (divorced and remarried) and his older brother's two divorces when we talk about marriage and it hurts me to think he is so scarred by this. I should definitely be sensitive to that and I'm glad you brought this to my attention.
@MsHopeful: really good insight about the divorce issues in his family! I think it goes a long way when you can really *listen* to their concerns without judgement, empathize that marriage is a bigger subject than just your relationship, and acknowledge the complexity of the topic. I know it's hard and you definitely have to be prepared not to take it personally. But it is important that he shares his concerns with you and that you listen. I think guys have this fear that we're just coming at them with "WELL!?!?! Why aren't you READY YET?" (even if we're not....)
Regarding moving in, I absolutely agree that (even though you've lived together before) you should live separately until engagement. If marriage is important to you, which you know it is, and you've found it difficult to talk about in the past without him getting defensive....well, all i can say is you are asking for trouble if you live together again. You're in a good position now,. Don't tempt fate and end up possibly having to move out or issue a "real" ultimatum.
Deciding that you need to figure out what the future holds for the two of you before living together again is NOT an ultimatum. It's a boundary, and a reasonable discussion that two adults ought to be able to have. And you're not moving out to manipulate him. It's his choice what he'd like to do! You're taking care of yourself.
Good luck!
I would definately not rush to move back in with him... it sounds like he might have his issues with marriage based on the examples of other people in his family and that is definately not something to take lightly. It may be causing him to be extra cautious. Just let him know that until he feels ready to take the next step in the relationship that you think it is better you live apart so that you can both be sure about getting engaged.
You said he worries about the financial side of the wedding... have you ever asked him what his idea of a wedding is? I am waiting for financial reasons too and while I would have been happy with a small, backyard style wedding, he wants to do the full on thing because that is his ideal wedding. So for him that definately equals $$ and nothing will sway his thinking from that.
Given that he wont talk about the future... well thats kind of rough on you and unfair of him. I dont think it is wrong for you to expect that after 3 years that is the direction you are heading in and you both should feel comfortable to talk about marriage and kids and when is the right time. Ultimately, its not just his decision on when you get married - its both of yours!
My DH didn't want to get married. He would have happily lived in sin forever, had children, lived essentially as a married couple but without the piece of paper. Like your boyfriend, this partly came from all the divorces in his family (including his parents) - until he'd met my family he'd never really seen a happy marriage. He definitely wanted to be with me forever, just wasn't sure he wanted the marriage. But it was very important to me and he realised that, so we talked about it lots and what it would mean for us. Now he talks about our wedding as the best day of his life and is very pleased we did the whole shebang. He wasn't really ready until he was 31 and by the time he proposed we'd been together 6 years. Sounds a bit similar to your situation really, so I just wanted you to know that men who are scared of marriage can come through for you, it's just a matter of lots of talking about what they're scared of, why you want to get married, how it might change things, etc. Good luck!
I have not talked to anyone but him about my frustrations of us not getting married and I feel amazing now that I have gotten a lot of it off my chest via this forum. I have been given invaluable advice and I'm so thankful for you ladies! It never made sense why he was so angry about such a wonderful thing and I know now that behind his anger there is fear. I didn't understand that before because I know I was not fully listening to what he was really saying, I just heard "we are not ready to get married". My parents are divorced too but it never really affected me--they've both have been present all my life and I remain close to both till this day. I will still need to talk to him about my life plans but that's in the hopes he can open up to me about his fears and not so much about making definite plans right away. Thanks again to everyone and thank you @Lalai: for asking such a simple yet powerful question that has changed my perspective on something so close to my heart.
I hope your conversation with him goes well, and I hope he can give you a better idea of where his frustration is coming from, even if it doesn't turn out to be family issues that are holding him back. I think you're definitely right to approach it from the perspective of what you and he see for the future and not just wondering why he won't propose. In my and my boyfriend's case, it was hard to talk about, but after that I feel like I have a much better understanding of him and how he thinks, and we're on the same page now in a way that we weren't before.
Good luck - crossing my fingers for you and him! :)
I feel like if he is not wanting to talk about it, that's a bad sign. If he isn't willing to communicate, he's not ready for marriage, because that's what marriage is all about. I think your focus here shouldn't be on how to make him propose, but on how to improve the communication in your relationship. When you're BOTH ready, it'll happen. But forcing things is not going to give you a successful relationship, which is the most important thing.
@MsHopeful: that's great you feel you've gotten so much off of your chest! and
I bet now he'll be more willing to talk about it since it sounds like you've worked through your frustratrions. I have a feeling guys caan sense when we're upset and will get defensive, but if we work out our feelings and then come to them calmly and willing to listen, it gets MUCH better results.
I'm sure it will go well :-) As long as you hear the truth, it's a good discussion.
I don't think there anything wrong with having a "Where is this going" talk after being together for 3 years. And even if he doesn't want to hear it, he needs to know where you stand on the issue. So I'd be honest with him and say that you're okay for right now, but it's something that is important to you that can't be ignored for much longer.
From a guy's point of view. Let it be, when he's ready, he'll ask and he'll do it even without you knowing.
I dated my fiancee 3.5 years before I asked, and I felt right about doing it.
@malkamaniac: i definitely agree with this (im a groom as well). when the time is right, it'll happen.
We dated for 2 years and got engaged on her 21st bday. Got married 3 years later (when we could afford it). It was easy to ask her because I knew she would say yes. The88n and malk have it right. When it's time, it's time
@the88n: @malkamaniac: @PFiDC:
Wow, guys on this board! Awesome. Do you guys think she should live with him before engagement if she feels uncomfortable with that?
Thanks for your honesty. However, sometimes men will put off marriage for so long that they hurt the women that are waiting for a proposal. this is just as unfair as a woman nagging a man to get married to begin with!
There was actually a study done not long ago - I wish I could remember where I read it (and it might have been Cosmopolitan) about lengthy relationships with no wedding in sight.
The basic idea behind it is that as a society, we're not as marriage-minded anymore. Many women still are, but a lot of men don't see the necessity. There are fewer and fewer benefits of marriage - many states offer "domestic partnerships" as a non-marriage option for couples that want to share health benefits and such.
What it really comes down to is expectations. If you want to be married, you need to sit him down and talk about it. At the 3 year mark, it's not unreasonable to have some sort of plan for the future. If he's crying and angry, perhaps that's his way of getting you to NOT talk about the subject (let's face it, women do it all the time). Maybe he's just avoiding the topic, maybe the idea of being married scares him, maybe he doesn't ever want to get married but is afraid that if he tells you that you'll leave him. There are a lot of maybes and you need to find out which one is true.
Sit him down, don't be put off by the tears and talk.
@d-girl: yes I agree with that! Relationships should be a partnership. You should not torture each other unnecessarily becuase you refuse to see the other person's viewpoint. Women notoriously over-compromise.
@jrdowdell: Great of you to point out that men can be manipulative as well! Women are not the only ones who will employ various tactics to avoid dealing with a particular subject.
aww i love that there are groom son here!!!! that is sooo adorable!!!!
@Ms.Hopeful:
"He can talk about living together, buying a house together, "our kids", but he talk about marriage and he's running for the hills."
If I didn't live with the man, I'd swear you were dating my guy. :-) He talks easily about our life together now and the current future, but he has NEVER initiated a conversation on marriage. NEVER. And the marriage conversations are always so charged. I think it's because it's easier to talk comfortably about things that will be many years down the road (like kids), but marriage is something that I think he knows I want sooner.
But to address your actual question: if you don't want to live with him until you're engaged, just tell him that. Not like an ultimatum (to me, those seem unhappy, unhealthy, and very backfireable.) But calmly. Peacefully. In the context that you love him deeply and want your relationship to grow and deepen and become richer and stronger. But that it's important to you to build that kind of commitment in your life together before moving in.
As other posters have pointed out, whether moving in with him or not was a mistake doesn't really matter at this point, except in the way that you feel about it. (If you didn't like it or now regret it, then it might have been a mistake. But at any rate, it happened, it's over, etc.) Don't regret it in terms of future pace of the relationship, because pace is something that can always change.
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We're approaching our 3 years together soon. We have lived together for one year. We have a great relationship. We are constantly laughing, kissing, having a good time but when I want to have a serious conversation about marriage, it ends up with me crying because he doesn't want to talk about it. What makes me mad, like I told him last time, is that within a few months of us dating (3 years ago) he mentions going engagement ring shopping (kidding around) and two years ago I had a ring on and he asked me the size and if it was a size 6. He was obviously interested then but as you know, nothing ever became of it. Now only when I want to have a serious conversation about the M word, he gets frustrated, angry and walks away. I have told him, I am not worried about the engagement ring and the ceremony (wedding), I want to know if we're going to have a life and children together (marriage)...I have to mentioned that having children is very important to me, more than anything.
Background: Two years ago, he moved to another state for a job and a year later after I graduated we moved in together. Fast forward to today:we both quit our jobs in the new state because we both had awful employers. I decided to move back home (where we met) to find a job and to be near my mom and my friends... and secretly, I'm hoping he'll realize maybe it's time to propose. He is working for his dad in the new state until he can find a job here so we can be together. I have two questions:
1) Did I make a mistake by moving in with him before getting engaged and now he's too "comfortable" with our arrangement that he doesn't see what's the rush?
2) Now that he is planning to move here too, should I tell him we won't be moving into together until we are engaged? If so, how can I phrase it without it sounding like an ultimatum?
I'm confused! Ladies, I need your help!!