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Also? This is long, and I'm sorry.
Sunday involved a major fight with the boy about what to serve as appetizers at Thanksgiving. I wanted to do a cheese tray, which is what we've been doing in my family ...uh for years? I said I'd like smoked gouda (since my parents both like that) and camembert (another crowd pleaser). He made some snarky comment about having "normal" (I hate that word, officially) cheese, like cheddar. I said fine -- no problem, we can have cheddar too. Not my favorite, but I'll be the one shoving camembert in my face so no biggie. In my head I envisioned a few cheeses set on a platter so the addition of the cheddar was fine. He then proceeded to throw an out of the blue, major hissy fit about appetizers. He said he didn't want any "weird" food and then when I asked him what he defined as "weird" he just said "do whatever you want, since you'll do it anyway." I tried to talk to him about it -- I think I was being really rational about it -- and ask him, okay, what do you define as a normal appetizer. I finally got him to tell me that he thought chips and salsa, carrots and celery were "normal" appetizers. I said we could have those too, I just wanted to have a cheese tray. He continued to insist that it was "weird" even though I told him it's not weird to me (or to like the rest of the world?) and then he shut down and told me again to do whatever I wanted since I'd do that anyway. In the midst of my relatively rational behavior, I may have told him that he only though it was "weird" because his foodie parents [/extreme sarcasm] had never exposed him to it and also that it might not hurt to open himself up to new things.
After a very tense dinner, I went into the bedroom to watch TV and basically get away from him. He came in and started to talk about it again and -- I can't remember the exact sequence of the conversation but the gist of it was that he said "why do we have to have weird cheeses" and I said "they're not weird to me" and then he just got up and left. As he was closing the door I said "so that's it? we're just done discussing it?" and he said "yeah, deal with it."
Now, I was officially pissed off. I slammed the door, changed into my gym clothes and walked out the door without saying a word. Stayed at the gym for an hour, came home and showered and went to bed. I cannot figure out why he chose this one issue to pick a fight over and freak out about. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that my parents are coming in and we won't be able to eat at his family's house. Or maybe he just decided to be an jerk that day. Who knows.
So -- sorry this is long, but I'm still really pissed, really confused. Why the hissy fit? Why is he being so closed minded? I'm from Pennsylvania and he's from Texas and I notice this a lot -- he thinks things I do are "snobby" or "fancy" but they're really not (smoked gouda isn't what I'd consider fancy) and besides -- lots of people have cheese trays at parties?! I've noticed a resistance to any type of food he thinks is "fancy" or he can't pronounce -- we've encountered this searching for wedding caterers. I've got no clue what to do and we're still only hardly speaking to each other. Mostly I just want to yell ... or cry. Agh.
If it makes you feel any better our first and largest fight to date was about salad dressing.
(((hug)))
I would chalk this up to bizarre holiday stress. I'm sure he's stressed about his family coming in and hosting the holiday, etc. I'm sure you'll makeup and one day you will laugh about the argument you had over...cheese. Hope your day gets better. I hate these types of fights, but at least it's not something earth sahttering.
I'm sorry this happened. On a lighter note it makes me think of a book, have you read, Who Moved My Cheese?
That is so frustrating. My DH used to do that although not to the extent you seem to be in. He would think things are weird like eggplant. It was just cause it was different to him and that could be a little scary to a guy who's used to eating hot dogs all the time. Could you gently suggest a tasting? Just the two of you, a couple new scary foods, and some traditional staples you know he loves. This way he will be prepared for what it looks, tastes and smells like. It will show him the different traditions could equal a fun experience.
Maybe you could make a pizza with one of the cheeses you mentioned, something "normal" with something a little different.
I don't know. Maybe he has some issues with holidays. My Hubby would cop an attitude whenever we went to his grandparents house. It wasn't cause he didn't love them, he's scared of getting older and what's happening to them and it upset him to see his grandmother with aleztiemers (sp?). You never know what's actually behind this sort of thing.
P.S. We had huge fight over how to cut a tomatoe, as well as what cutting boards we would register for. We actually had to leave the store because we were so mad at each other over it.
I have the same problem with my bf... he grew up in a really small town in Northern FL (which should just be southern GA), and I grew up in Boston. In his town, the only "ethnic" food they have is a Taco Bell. I've been exposed to a lot of different ethnic foods my entire life. So when I go out to dinner, I want to get something different than what I cook normally, like Thai or Indian food, and my bf just wants to go somewhere where he can order a hamburger. And my bf is like a human garbage disposal, but only if it's something that he's eaten his entire life. If it's not something he's had since he was 5, then he won't even try it. It's so frustrating.
I don't know, it sounds like there are some deeper issues at play here. From his "just do whatever you want, you'll do it anyway" comment, it sounds like maybe he feels you don't take his opinions very seriously. This is something you guys should definitely try to talk about and work through. From your post it also seems like he feels insecure about your differences in socio-economic status. I faced this issue with my fiance as well, it's not an issue now, but it was something we definitely had to get out in the open and discuss. Maybe bring it up like: "you said I just do what I want anyway, what did you mean by that? Do you feel like I don't take you into consideration?" and see what happens...
I think it's fear of the unknown. Maybe he doesn't know a whole lot about cheeses and thinks that he will be expected to eat or maybe even *gasp* talk about different types of cheeses. My FI is the same way in that he is worldly in almost every area except food...he is very hesitant about trying new things so I told him that once we are married, I am going to introduce him to the joys of foods from all cultures =) If it isn't soulfood, seafood, or pizza...he isn't all that thrilled about eating it...or even seeing it NEAR something he wants to eat.
Is this maybe a family thing? Like he's afraid you'll appear rich or snotty if you have 'exotic' foods.
I have no idea why this is but it's an opinion I hear a lot. From talking to people I'm almost positive my husband and I spend a lot less on food than the average American (ALOT less). But we do love food and try lots of new things, most made from scratch which is how we keep the cost down but........ when I talk to people I often get the 'oh well I wish we could afford to eat like that' (you can, you make more than us) or the 'ha....seems like a lot of trouble just to avoid kraft'
I get the feeling that a lot of people think it's snotty to branch out a bit.
Don't worry about it...maybe he was just having a bad day. Boys are entitled to those too :)
but the comment of "you'll do it anyway" might mean that there is a deeper issue. Maybe he's saying you don't give him enough input in things?
Just something to consider
Heh, I'm from Texas and my FH is from Pennsylvania (we live in PA), and he is the one always thinking I'm doing something weird or being snobby or something. It probably has more to do with the fact that I lived in the city and he's always been a small-town dude.
Anyway, it sounds like he's just insecure serving food that he doesn't know anything about! And maybe a little stressed out about entertaining your family? Hope y'all resolve it; good luck!
@hello -- In terms of status growing up, we're pretty similar. His parents probably had more $$ than mine because of better investing. And it's not that my family is worldly -- my mom won't touch sushi, no matter how hard I try -- I think I just absorb more from other people/cultures around me. I also think I've been exposed to more -- I've been to Europe; he's never been out of the US. I've moved around from PA to SC to TX and he's never lived out of state. I've met people from everywhere -- it was one of my BMs from Cali who introduced me to sushi in grad school (...speaking of sushi). 2 Thanksgivings ago, I went to Austin with my boss and ate dinner with her family -- it was the first time I'd ever eaten fois gras and drank port. They put it in front of me, and I tried it. So it's not as though I come from this grand, worldly family, I think I'm just open to new things more than he is. Which makes it frustrating when I try to get him to try things and he won't based on the fact that he can't pronounce it.
It is the "you'll just do it anyway" comment that really upsets me. True, I get my way a lot, but I think our relationship is pretty balanced. And it wasn't as though I said "we will ONLY have fancy, smelly cheeses and NO chips and salsa!!!" -- I totally compromised! I essentially offered him everything he wanted plus two cheeses that I liked. Plus, it was totally out of the blue. I agree that there are probably underlying issues -- but what are they? And how am I supposed to pry them out of him?
Right, this isn't about cheese. (I don't think.) I think you need to focus on the part where he says, you do what you want anyway. Instead of bringing up another convo about cheese, try broaching a new topic about what's making him not feel satisfied about your decision making process. You admitted that you get your way a lot. But then said you felt that your relationship is balanced. Maybe he doesn't see it that way. If you are getting your way, and he is caving in more than 50/50, I can see why he'd feel that way. Is he one to express himself well? Or perhaps give in to avoid arguing and keep his frustration inside?
And I think that regarding the cheese, you had a great solution. But was there some other argument or set up that was an issue before? Did you promise something and then turn around and end up doing it your way? (You really don't have to answer these to us. Just stuff to think about.) While you say your parents don't have more money, is it possible he, or his family still might view these foods as snobbish? Is there something else going on about his family's attitude that he's casting on the cheese incident? Does he feel like with you trying to expose him to new things, you're trying to change him?
Good luck. I don't think it's about cheese. But I do think you can talk it out. :)
Can you just ask him or would he not answer?
Like what's the big deal about having cheeses that both of us want.
It hurt me that you said I'm going to do what I want anyways, do you think I override your decisions that often?
It does sound like he's a bit scared of new foods, my sisters were like this for awhile, but slowly they branched out, very very slowly in tiny increments.
I personally would let him have the cheese tray his way.............. it all goes along the lines of not sweating the small stuff. Really, in 5 years is it going to matter what cheese was on the tray?
Also, he probably won't be expecting that so it'll be a nice suprise.
I don’t know what the underlying issue may be, but one of my best friends (my MOH actually), is hesitant to try new foods, and gets uptight if I “push” her. For instance, I mentioned several times to her that I was excited about our pre-wedding salon day because we could bring champagne, and started talking about what type of champagne I liked. Finally she made a remark that “maybe she is a hick drinker” but she only likes beer. No problem to me – but she said the conversation made her feel weird – like she wasn’t cultured. Certainly wasn’t my intent when I brought up the champagne idea. I think feeling “uncultured” or whatever can cut people down sometimes (I’m not saying that was your intent at all, just putting it out there as a possible reason for the blow up).
If it makes you feel better (or makes you laugh), the largest fight FH and I have gotten into so far was over whether David Dochovny (sp? The guy from X-files) was hot or not. Granted, there was drinking involved that night – but sometimes you both just get super stressed out, and the fighting comes out in weird, WEIRD ways!!!! (hugs)
It's cool, we once almost broke up because of a fight over Qdoba chips. It was badddd but we solved a LOT of issues that night :) since it always runs deeper than the chips!
I think it is him worrying that his family will feel out of place. even I feel out of place looking at those cheese names. I think he's being overly sensitive/protecting for his family, but if he has said things like this before then he's probably felt out of place before and doesn't want it to happen again, to him or his family. HE should have been cool with your compromise... like you suggested. I think you need to get down to the real nitty-gritty... what his underlying issue is. Not sure how to though since I don't know your man! And I know I didn't really say anything that wasn't said above... but just throwing in some support!
If it makes you feel better, we disagree on food a lot. I am with you, let's have some fancy cheese. He's a plain mozzerella and Kraft American individually wrapped slices guy. And that's fine, but live and let live, right?
I blame his mother. She instilled all these weird food hangups in him.
I know its wasn't funny at the time, and is probably still not funny now. But I totally laughed at your story! It sounds a lot like my husband and I. When we have blow out fights its about something like twist-ties, or tissues, or cheese (although... not cheese because we both like snobby cheese hehe).
Seriously, I don't think you should read into him saying "You'll do what you want anyway," too much. Its more like him conceding that it should be done how you proposed since you actually compromised. Unlike him. Saying that is like a last ditch attempt on his part at manipulating you into doing it HIS way!
You shouldn't feel bad about letting him have all the "normal" appetizers he wants and adding two of your "weird" cheeses. If anyone asks him about them, just tell him to tell whoever it is that they are, "my fiance's weird cheeses."
Aww, I know this is no help, but there was an arugement over cheese in the movie "license to wed" as well...don't feel bad, even Mandy Moore has those days ;)
(hugs)
I agree with many of the above posters... it seems like there's kind of a socioeconomic/snobbishness hang-up going on, and I'm concerned about the "you'll just do what you want."
One thing that occurs to me, that might help to defuse the cheese issue a little bit: chips and salsa aren't "normal" to everyone either! My husband's family definitely sees them as very "ethnic," and would never serve them because they're "weird." I've actually seen MIL being too nervous to try salsa, b/c she is too scared of spicy foods. They're from rural SC. Just thought that observation might help your guy get a little bit of perspective about how tastes vary from one region to another and one family to another... his "normal" food is totally exotic by their standards!
My Boy and I had a fight last night about a pillow. I ended up on the couch and only getting about 3 or 4 hours of sleep! It was ridiculous!
Oh girl, we have the silliest arguments over the most mundane things. I agree with the above posts that this sounds like something a little more than just cheese. Maybe he feels like he's not heard or his suggestions aren't taken into consideration. Not just with cheese but in general. I could be speculating but you never know.
That being said, I would go over board on the cheese tray. (i'm slightly giggling now). I'm talking all the cracker barrel you could ask for AND the cheeses you and your parents enjoy.
Girl, the two most epic fights my FI and I had in the past year were over 1.) meatballs and 2.) a Batman comic book. Of course, there were other things at the heart of it--there always are--but I'm sure that once you work it out, you'll laugh about this.
LOL I just had to comment because my husband & I also had a little argument over cheese!
I wanted a cheese board at the wedding, & he thought it was stupid, in the end I promised not to spend more then x amount of dollars & our cheese board rocked at the wedding.
And about your cheese argument, sounds like he was on what I call his "man period" and he was just arguing and nit picking for the sake of arguing. Just brush it off and do the cheese board with the cheddar. Trust me the on Thanksgiving day he will be shoving all those appetizers in his pie hole while drinking beer & watching football :)
Sorry about all of this, but if you can stand one more bit of advice...
You are planning the wedding and the holidays and probably making many other household and decorating decisions, right?
Maybe he's not feeling "heard" or that his opinon matters in all of this. Understand, that like your wedding, it's his holiday too. Perhaps he wants some of his own "comfort" items to feel happy or like he's a part of the whole wedding, holiday, marriage decision making process versus a bystander.
Here's the hard part: Let it go by LETTING HIM DO IT. Assign him "appetizers". Trust his judgement (he's smart, he picked you didn't he?). If he chooses to bring cheddar or celery or tacos from Taco Bell or whatever, so what! It's not the end of the world if it's not what you'd choose! Delegate the job and don't bring it up again. You have to delegate and let him be involved not matter how mundane or he'll always say "fine, you do it" (subtext: since you are going to do it your way anyway and my input isn't welcome) .
Please don't put yourself in the position of always doing "it" your way for the rest of the relationship or you'll end up doing everything or making all of the decisions and then you'll be pissed that he's not involved enough.
Please, talk it out and make sure you really HEAR him because it is SO NOT about food or cheese or the restaurant you choose...it might just be about letting him make some decisions too.
Happy Thanksgiving...
Sometimes the issue lies deep inside...but sometimes it REALLY IS just about cheese. My fiance and I continue to have major arguments about whose turn it is to clean the cat litter (supposedly it's 50/50...but somehow I think he is getting the better end of the deal).
This one is easily solved though. Who is making the appetizers? We have a deal that you can't say anything bad about the other person's cooking or choice of meal.
There's a lot of good advice on this thread but I felt compeled to add.
FYI: He is being Ridiculous!
There isn't a single logical or reasonable reasons you can't have a cheese you and your family love available at your wedding (along with other stuff!). That's probably why he wouldn't engage in a rational conversation, there's just nothing he could say.
G'luck.
I agree that it usually goes deeper than the cheese.
We once had a HUGE fight about soup, crab soup to be exact. For the life of me I can't remember the details but I promise, you will laugh about it someday.
I agree that it might have something to do with the holidays/stress. Are traditions important to him for the holidays? I know my family and my fi's family both have our own traditions, and maybe he's just missing doing what he's used to. He already probably doesn't get to have his normal dinner, you said his family wont be there, maybe he was just trying to hold on to one of his traditions.
I agree with @klikky - My FI and I had similar types of fights (one over hailing a cab) when we first started dating. We kinda nipped it in the bud early, and what he said was that because I am so "strong-willed," sometimes he didn't feel like the man in the relationship because I was independent and would "do what I wanted anyway." I think it came down to him wanting to be helpful and have input, and me not telling him what to do - he felt like his opinons were just as strong and right, but I was overridding him because I thought I knew better or that my way was the right way.
There are times when I just grit my teeth and let him do it his way - because it seems as right to him as your delicious cheeses seem to you (and me!) We're building a life TOGETHER, and...unfortunately...I don't always get to win.
BTW, the way you should hail a cab is to have your arm up BEFORE the cab is near you - that way they can see your arm and slow down/put on their blinker or change lanes if needed ;-)
Ha! I think you can tell how much everyone can relate to these "silly" fights by the response here. I think Klikky makes a great point. You may just want to let him take care of it altogether. Although it feels nice to get your way on things eventually he'll stop trying and then you'll have all the responsibility for decisions on your shoulders (even if you don't always want it!).
P.S. - If it makes you feel any better, I personally would find it a bit odd if I went to Thanksgiving and there was chips and salsa as an appetizer. Don't tell him that though! :) To each his own!
So this isn't entirely related to your situation, but I just had to tell this story... I posted earlier about my bf not being as much as a foodie as I am and only likes hamburgers and things. WELL, we were watching the episode of Grey's where the guys all go camping in season 3 (yes, I've gotten my bf hooked on Grey's). The chief brings all different kinds of cheeses with him, and my bf said, "of course the rich guy would bring fancy cheese camping. If I was with him, I'd throw it in the river and make him a hamburger." I could not stop laughing because of my post earlier. Just had to share. :)
So sorry, I know you're probably still really upset. If it makes you feel any better or if its of any consolation, when this is past you it will be known as "Cheese-aster '09" Sorry I just had to make light of it.
It's a dirty secret of marriage that "compromises" often leave both parties unhappy (or at least one of them).
Good communication and problem solving really help find solutions where neither side feels like they're compromising. The issue your FI raised (that you don't listen to him) is a serious one... maybe some couples counseling might help get to the bottom of it? On the flip side, it sounds like he may not communicate that well and may possibly act passive-aggressively... that's also an issue where counseling can help!
Good luck!!!
So.. this isn't really related, but I thought I would share. When I was a senior in high school, my best friend and I started a cheese club, where we would go buy different types of cheeses and then write about them, noting which ones we liked the best. It only lasted one trip, but it was a great concept.
I agree with Mr. Bee that compromises usually make both parties unhappy. Much better just to talk about it and figure out the underlying problem.
Or, just make the cheese tray with all sorts of cheeses (cheddar included!) and just not label any of them. No one will know that they can't pronounce the name of the cheese they're eating. And include crackers! Yum. I love cheese.
I think Klikky and Mr. Bee said everything I would have regarding what are certainly deeper issues. He seems to be crying out for empowerment - the ability to have some say. He told you exactly what the issue was - he doesn't perceive his imput actually materializing into something in the end. He feels he has no vote. Try to work on addressing that issue.
So, everything else was just a symbol. The cheese platter is just a symbol of any other decision in the past, where he gave his ideas but ultimately he felt that they amounted to little.
Now, regarding the food...
My FI, when I first met him, hadn't eaten a single thing past Velveeta cheese in his life, and it was absolutely due to the family they lived in. Not only was his mother a terrible cook who attempted gourmet (turning him off to anything more unusual than Kraft Macaroni and Cheese), but she definitely shielded her family from new things. Heck, my FSIL didn't even try FISH until she was in COLLEGE. WHAT?!
So, needless to say, I saw a lot of passive-aggressive behavior on his part early on when I would gently offer something new (and I was raised to cheerfully do this and always accept an offering) - I was kinda shocked that he would get mad! I simply had to let it be, not try to suggest tastings or anything of the sort, and simply eat my own foods.
Gradually, foods that he absolutely loathed (if he tried them) became his favorites. The pattern was always that stronger-tasting foods were gross, but then they became delicious. It took a lot of time for him to learn to love a wider repetoire of foods and to become trusting while tasting new things.
I'm going to agree with the above that this is not about cheese. Hopefully after you both calm down you can figure out what is really going on.
Also, our two biggest fights were about really stupid things and weren't really about them at all. Disneyworld (really about me dismissing a family tradition) and pbj sandwich (really about him having a tendency to exaggerate and then STICK to the exaggerations).
My ex and I used to get into HUGE fights (about nothing) right before my friends and family would come over. He called me out on this, and I realized I was just nervous about them meeting/hanging out with each other.
Sometimes nervousness can't be communicated because it isn't rational, or it would be rude to say the reasons why. Sometimes my current boyfriend STABS his salad or shoves food in like he's a third-world refugee- bringing him to dinner at my boss' house made me nervous, but it wouldn't be polite to say I think he eats like a pig. Maybe he can't tell you that his mom thinks you're "uppity." Maybe he's worrried he'll come across as stupid to your parents, who know. Ya know what I mean? So he starts a fight about cheese.
No worries, he'll see that everything works out and will stop be so nervous, and he's only so nervous because he loves you so much and wants it to work.
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