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Advice?
I was niave. My contract with my WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHER was very vauge, stating only that I would get 100 photos for (appx) $900 and that she would shoot for 7 hours.
PROBLEM- Out 500 photos she shot, SHE ONLY ALLOWED ME TO SEE 100 (didn't want to spend time editing) AND THOSE WERE THE ONES I HAD TO BUY, NO CHOICE!
Also, SHE picked which ones were made into BLACK AND WHITES!
I have only 3 of me alone in my gown and 6 of me and my husband alone!
Others are family shots (way too many that she knew I didn't want) and even they looked like I had poised them), many reception shots, dancing, a shot of feet, me w/ people I hardly know, etc.
A few are very cute BUT I CAN'T EVEN SEE ANY MORE! She refuses. AND I REMEMBER ALL THE CUTE POISES SHE PUT MY HUSBAND AND ME INTO! WHY CAN'T I JUST SEE THEM!
(Exception- after much begging, little by little she added up to 18 more pics. So I have now seen 118 out of 500 but that is it.)
So, out of 500+ shots SHE CHOSE to let me see 118 AND FORCED me to buy only them.
HER REPLY: "Your contract says you get 100 and you got 118."
I'm in Jackson, Mississippi. ANY ADVISE?
Will a small claim's judge agree with her?
What about REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS, NORMAL ASSUMPTIONS????
She actually said, "If you had wanted to see all your pictures you should have said so."
I think she should have told us THAT SHE WAS GOING TO PICK OUT OUR PHOTOS FOR US AND THAT WE'D HAVE NO CHOICE!
I'd greatly appreciate any advise, especially anything I can use in small claims court.
It just seems like common secne to think you'll get to see and choose your own pictures.
Thank you,
Hol
It seems rather unreasonable that she can't let you come in, view all of the photos with her and select 100 of your choosing. Unless she took a lot of REALLY bad pictures and doesn't want you to realize how poor her work was?
If your contract stated you would get 100 photos, and it doesn't specify of the photog's choosing, I would think you could at least come in and pick the 100 photos yourself?
I think in general you do expect your photographer to select the best photos for editing and finishing touches. A photographer does not want to release photos that they feel didn't turn out well, because if you go plastering them everywhere and attributing them to your photographer, then it looks bad on them. It's not unreasonable to think that out of 500 photos, only 100 are truly frame-worthy.
I specifically asked my photographer about the unedited photos (the theoretical ones - we aren't married yet) and he said he doesn't give those out "unless they are hilarious." He said they are usually shots where someone has their eyes closed or the lighting is bad and he might just use them to help touch up other photos.
It actually sounds like the contract was very clear about your only getting 100 photos, and did not state that you got to chose them. Since the photographer is the artist in this case, I think it's fair that they get to cull the library. For example, my photographer took over a thousand photos over the 8 hours we had her, and presented us with her top 300. It's very standard. We weren't "forced to buy them" - that's what you get when you know you are receiving a certain amount of edited photos. The amount of time involved in editing and dealing with clients viewing and choosing libraries really limits the choosing of libraries by clients.
So you pay and you get 20% of what you paid for?
And you don't even get to say which are black and white and which are color?
If it were your wedding, and she shot 500, many of which you remember being of you and your husband alone, on a dock, being silly, behind your veil, in his lap, etc.... and you get to see only 100, none of which are those.....you'd still think that reasonable?
Yes, she was very against us seeing anymore. I actually think they were either ruined or probably just really bad. I know photographers edit out several, but not 80%.
Thanks for your reply!
@Hol: Actually, according to your contract you only paid for 100. So you got over 100% of what you paid for by getting 118 photos. You got 118% of what you paid for.
My photographer took probably over 1,000 photos of my wedding day. We didn't get every single one back. We got 800 or so which was within the range specified by our contract. It never crossed my mind to ask to see all the rest.
My photographer is the professional and she picked her best work to send to us.
Do you have the option to buy more edited photos if you want?
Editing does take a lot of the photographer's time and effort and if you only paid for 100 images you can't expect her to edit and provide more for free.
You didn't get 20% of what you paid for. Your contract says you get 100 photos, and you got that. You got 100% of what you paid for.
I can see both sides of this. On the one hand, it's good that your photographer took a lot of pictures, so that there were more chances of getting good shots in there. If your contract said you got to see everything, she may hesitate to take pictures unless she was really sure they would turn out perfectly. You might still only end up with 100 in that case and some of them would not be perfect.
As others have said, you hire a photographer in part for her judgment, knowing which pictures are good and which aren't, and which are suitable for making black and whites and which aren't.
On the other hand if I spent a lot of time in different poses and situations and then never even saw any of those photos, I would feel it was a waste of time and money. She should at least let you stop by and look at selected photos from those poses, and you can try to talk her into letting you have a few of them.
Thank you. I agree. I was not smart with the contract. But she knew I though I was going to be picking out the ones I wanted. Any bride would expect that. She should have made herself clear if she was only going to show me 20% and then choose my pics for me, especially what would be black and whites. I just got taken and I want her to show me more pics. I will happily buy them, maybe many more. If she'll just show me some more!
Thanks.
Yeah, I think the biggest issue here is that you spent time taking pictures in certain poses/places and didn't get to see a single picture from that time spent. I'd be a little upset by that. If you were given a wide sample within the 100 photos from various times of the day, then I'd say maybe you just got what you paid for.
My suggestion would be to contact the photog and be vey calm, rational and just mention to her that you were disappointed in not getting a chance to see some of the photos from poses/time periods throughout the day. Would she happen to be able to at least let you see some from the dock, etc. and maybe give you the option to pay a little more for those if you want them?
Thanks for your comments. I've tried. I've pleaded and begged. I think they were just really bad. I've since learned she's just a hobbiest at this. My Bad! But I've never done this before. Lesson learned!
Thank you.
@Hol: Actually, as a bride I would not expect to get to see all the photos the photographer took on the day and "pick my own". The photographer is a skilled artist vendor and I would expect they would put forth their best work as their final product.
As for what was in black and white and what wasn't is it possible your photographer had 2 cameras and one had black and white film in it? My photogapher shot her black and white photos on black and white film so there never was a "color" version of it in the first place.
ETA: Just saw you posted she is a hobbiest and not a professional. It really may be that the rest of the photos are not good. She delivered on her contract so technically you got what you paid for. I'm sorry you didn't get some of the photos you thought you'd get.
@Hol: Maybe you could at least get her to agree to a day-after session with you two now? It sounds like you're especially disappointed that you don't have enough pictures of you and your husband alone. I totally understand this.
I don't know, if you paid her for 7 hours of shooting and there are big chunks of time from which you don't have any photos at all, I think you have an argument that she owes you that time that you're missing. Otherwise maybe just bite the bullet and hire someone else for day-after pics.
I paid her to shoot 500+ photos of which I assumed, as most would, that I would be allowed to see a majority of those and at the very least get to pick my own purchases.
So I will correct myself: I got to see about 20% of what I expected to see. And I paid for not only the photos but also the right to see the majority of them and to choose the ones I wanted to purchase.
@Hol: I guess the hard lesson to learn from this is NEVER assume and always ask. And if you have to ask get the answer documented in teh contract so there is no argument after the fact.
I agree about possibly having a "day-after" session with just you and your husband so you can have more pictures of the two of you together.
Yeah, at this point if you can afford it I'd hire another photographer with a staller rep to shoot a day after session for you guys. That way you can have some gorgeous pictures of you and your husband in your wedding clothes.
Thank you for that very good advice. I have done all of that however. I am by nature, very gentle and forgiving. I have tired my best, said I would do what ever I needed to to help her make this possible, come to her if that would help, anything, if only she'd please show me certain ones I remember. I told her we'd probably buy many more if we could just see them. That was all met with basically a No and a Leave Me Alone, I Am Done With This.
So sad for me.
But thank you!
Awe......Thank you. That al least meakes me feel a little better.
Appreciate you.
Yes, another shoot would help, just not the same, ya know?
But yes, LESSON LEARNED.....NEVER ASSUME!
Thank you!
That's a good thought on the "chunck of time missing." Here in MS 7 hours of shooting is alot. I've called around. So asking to see more pics seemed logical. But since she won't, yeah.......maybe she kinf of 'owes me' more from that time.
We actually paid for an extra 2 hours to make it 7. Was suppose to be only 5. But still only got to see 100 pics.
I'll think on this. Thanks a bunch!!!
Sounds like you're probably not going to get anything else from her. Such is the luck when you contract a nonprofessional to do professional work, sadly. I'm sorry you had to learn that lesson this way - even though it wouldn't be the same, I have seen some gorgeous second-day shoots posted here and elsewhere that are just as touching and beautiful. I hope you can get it worked out, and hopefully you won't let this one thing spoil the rest of your happy wedding memories. <3
I'm Sorry But knowing 'you are receiving a certain amount of edited photos', as you put it, still would never be assumed by the vast majority of people that the photographer would be picking out the photos the bride and groom had to buy!
I have called 7 photographers here and all have agreeded with me in this. None of them do it this way. Yes, most, but not all, cull the bad ones, but only a small percentage. And ALL let the couple PICK THEIR OWN 100 or 200 pics, or what ever their package size is!
This woman just shot alot of bad photos. That has been every photographer's guess that I have spoken with around my area.
I think it is fairly standard for photographers to cull the photos. I only received one image from each of the posed family shots. The photographer we had also made the call on what photos we received in black and white. Maybe try talking to your photographer about the shots you remember being taken, but aren't in the 118 given to you. I agree with a PP, in that if there are parts of the day that are missing from the photos given to you, see if the photographer is willing to include those parts of the day. As far as your contract, the photographer delivered more than the number of photos promised, so I don't think you will get far with taking them to court over it.
Yes. This has been very hard and very hurtful, especialyy her "could care less" attitude about my feeling and my special day. And the loss of so many great shots that could have been!
But I have to remember, Life is good. There are many, many more blessings to enjoy and be grateful for. Thank you for your help. At least I got a few good photos of my husband and me. I have heard stories worse than mine. Thanks again!
How do you even know that they shot 500? Photographer shouldn't of even told you that.
As people said, it's not uncommon for the photographer to cull photo's and you did get what you contracted for. What you really wanted was a viewing gallery of everything and then the option to pick the final images to edit.
Photographer should be willing to give you the color image for any that were turned into black and white (unless they are hiding a bad shot with a B&W conversion).
Yes, on the 118, she did more but we would happily give back 18 of the other bad ones but she won't discuss anything with us. We asked about specific shots we remember being taken of the 2 of us- (we only have 7 now of us! So Sad. And only 3 are even good.) But again, she won't discuss it.
When I ask if something happened to the photos, "where is the one..." (and name specific poses), she does not respond. So there is no communication. I think of the 500 she shot, the vast majority were just bad. Of the 100 we got, many were bad- eyes closed, stiffly poised, heads down, etc.....
LESSON LEARNED! She was just awful but had pics on her website that looked great. We now wonder if the photos on her website are all actually, truly her's.
Even a local professional photographer agrees with us on that possibility.
Some people are just selfish and cruel and I believe that describes this young woman.
Thanks.
@Hol: I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe see about hiring a pro photographer to take some shots of just you and your hubby like someone else suggested. It doesn't 'fix' things, but you'll get to wear your wedding dress again and have some additional photos of you and your hubby. :) Good luck!
She told us in an email discussing all this that she had shot 500. Probably not true. But we paid for 5 hours, plus extra money for 2 more hours- although she disappeared for 1/2 hour and missed a special event at reception.
Some, not all, local photogs I have now called have said they cull some pics, but that the client ends up seeing the majority and then THE CLIENT picks their 100, or 200, or whatever they've paid for. AND THEY CAN BUY EVEN MORE.
We BEGGED Shannon to let us do this! "WE"LL BUY MORE!!!," we kept saying. But she finally,after many emails, posted 118 on her sight (over 2 months after the wedding) and said that "was the last of your images." And basically added, go away, in so many words. But we remembered many other shots we had poised for??????
PS Sidenote- Alhough she admittedly was late with our photos, we never one time emailed her asking where they were, giving her lots of time. Didn't want to bother her.
Now I think, we're just suckers, all the way around.
We hiried a friend to take our photos and were told we would get all of the photos, then I was given 175 photos and 1/2 or more were bad photos. I eventually got the rest of the photos but it was a very diffrent situation, she was not a pro and we never signed a contract. Is there a way you could buy a CD of your photos, my guess is that there were not that many good photos or that she did not take what she claimed to, and by now she may have gotten rid of the ones she felt were bad.
I am so sorry this happened to you I know it is hard looking back and remembering events that there is not a photo of but in the end you had a beautiful day I am sure.
This is a TOTALLY standard thing.
Most photographers only release about 10% of the photos they take. You are lucky you got double that.
Photographers cull all the images that are out of focus, are unflattering, have some other technical issue, or aren't up to their standards.
You pay them for their eye and creative vision. That includes their ability to edit out the bad, or redundant, images. You are paying for their talent, and their judgement is part of that.
Probably more experienced and more expensive wedding photographers give you a higher percentage of images, but you chose not to hire a top of the line elite photographer. And even they cull their images down.
@MrsTrue: A 10% keeper rate is REALLY REALLY low. I have to think even newcomers to the industry are getting around 30% minimum hopefully closer to 50%.
@USER876: I've seen raw film and it's not low depending on what style someone is shooting. For the photojournalistic style especially you're definitely closer to 10% than you are to 50%. Many photogs carry mulitple cameras with different lenses and take 3 to 4 pictures on each camera for just one shot. You've got to take composition/eyes closed/focus/lighting/angles all into consideration and if they all don't come together there's no point in using that photo.
If your photographer is a more traditional portrait photographer you're probably going to get closer to a 25-30% usability rate.
Still I think that the issue here is the contract she signed for 100 photos. Most of the contracts I've seen in this area stipulate a certain number of photos that are released to you (I've seen anywhere from 200 photos up to 700 for multiple photographers.) But no where have I heard that they will let you see all of the raw film and pick your own photos based on that. You can pay more for the release photos (1000+ for an extra 200 release photos) but you don't get to pick them.
Your best bet might be to hire another photographer and do a trash the dress session or something similar.
That is unacceptable. I would never ever do that to a client. Something sounds fishy to me. I cut a bunch and then only edit some, but there is no way 118 images are all she has from 7 hours. No way at all unless she had a camera malfunction or they turned out horrid and doesn't want to say so. At least with the OP begging, pleading and offering to pay she could have put all of the pictures, edited or not, in a gallery. I have never heard of a photographer refusing to release certain images especially when a client is offering to pay for them.
This is a weird situation any way you slice it.
100 photos for 7 hours is insane, we are doing 4 hours and are quoted up to 600 finished photos that are ours to print off as we like. I honestly think you got totally ripped off.
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