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I just read a VERY interesting article about married couples who choose not to have children. Many of them said that parentless couples are happier, in a better financial posistion and don't have the obligation to focus on anything but themselves. Thats fair right? Not too harsh on parents of children?
I found this article rather ironic. It seems it went from a well thought out, educated question to a child hating fest that got deeper with every comment from a parentless child. The irony in this was that most of the married couples said, "We do not want children because they will interfere with our life as a couple. I love my husband and can't imagine children ruining our marriage. Lives without children let us focus on ourselves". It seems as though the very reason why these couples got married is the very reason why most couples end up having children. They love them and can't imagine there lives without them. That right there bugs me. It seems as though they are so closed minded that they don't realize getting married is just as big of a decision has having a child and you feel pretty much the same emotions for another human bean, whether it be your husband or child.
I am not hating on childless couples. That is a personal choice. Most of the couples said "I am too selfish to have a child. I don't like children." Okay, thats fine, to his, his own. But who isn't selfish? I know I am and I am a parent. I'm selfish because it keeps me, me. It keeps my head on straight to be a great mom. I'm not saying if you know that you wont be a good parent to have children. If you know that you childs life will not be enriched by yourself as a parent then by all means DON'T have children. The last thing we need is another abused child in this world. If you can't have children this is not what so ever pointed at you. I sympathize with you and envy your strength at the same time.
I just wish people were not so closed minded. Having a child is not something to be taken with a grain of salt. If you choose not to have children then I respect that. But please respect the generation after you. Respect the mothers and fathers who are working 2 jobs, getting no sleep, and still loving and raising the next generation of doctors, teachers, firefighters who just might save your life one day.
Ok comment away!!! I really want to see other opinions!!!
I'm really confused by your post. Are you talking about childless couples (couples who don't want children) or parentless couples (couples that don't have parents)?
Either way, I don't think it's right to judge anyone whether they want children or not. If their reasons for not having children are because they want to live their lives traveling and focusing on themselves, you can't blame them for not wanting children. They're making a responsible choice by not bringing a child into the world who won't have the attention he/she deserves.
Subsequently, for those couples who want children, it's not right for those who don't want children to chastise them for caring deeply for their children.
It's all about respect for each others' points of view.
Obviously people need to keep having kids or else we'd all go extinct, right? So I don't feel like there are probably many people who think no one should have kids. But I totally empathize with people who don't want kids. It is something I struggle with.
I think it is hard to explain to someone who doesn't want kids why they are a good idea. The cold hard "facts" about kids don't stack up well in their favor. They deprive you of sleep, time, and boat loads of money. They cause you grief and grey hair. They strain your marriage. They hold you back at work, socially, and in your ability to explore the world. on and on and on. So they don't really seem to be a good investment of energy. The thing is though, kids aren't something you can put on a spreadsheet. You can't quantify love or happiness. I think you just need to do whatever feels right to you. I think a lot of people (most probably) feel a NEED to have kids and won't be fulfilled if they don't. Whereas others will never "get it" and will feel they dodged a major bullet.
Ironically it is kind of like planning a big wedding vs. eloping. On paper a big wedding seems silly, right? So much time and money wasted on a day. Not at all practical. And yet most of us want some form of that "big wedding" just because we want it.... and most of us who do it will be thrilled we did (despite lack of sleep time money etc etc). :)
I'm sorry! Yes, I do mean couples who do not want children by choice.
Most of my relatives chose to NOT have kids. They travel a lot, have gorgeous homes, etc. I think that is wonderful and all, but I personally would feel pretty sad if I had no one to leave it all behind to!
Got it! And yea, I think it's just respecting each other. I respect the choice of those couples who decide not to have children. It's completely their choice. It's not going to be my choice in my marriage, but to each their own. As long as they aren't telling me what a fool I am for having children, they can not have kids all they want!
Can you add a link to the article youa referencing?
I agree with both of you. I am NOT a kid person. You will never hear the words that I just love children come out of my mouth. This is for all the very reasons why many couples do choose not to have kids. But my husband and I did have a "surprise". My little boy is the light of my life now and the good out weigh the bad. I am expecting my next child and even though I am dreading what is ahead, I also know that it will be worth it. Its a weird bittersweet thing. I just don't think that children are as awful as some make them out to be. We all in fact were children at some point.
I will not be having children. I love children but I don't feel the need to raise one. I will help all of my friends raise theirs. I just do not feel that maternal longing. I do not feel my life will be any less complete or fulfilled without children. I have an extremely happy life and I am perfectly satisfied with my FI and my dog. I am sure we would both make great parents but we don't feel it is something we will miss in any way. Plain and simple. I certainly don't feel like we are selfish people, having chidren is a choice and we choose not to.
I think it depends on the person. I'm not quite sure what you're saying about "the very reason why these couples got married is the very reason why most couples end up having children." I take it you mean their commitment to each other and their love...
Here's the thing - rationally, economically, looking at longitudinal studies and statistics, couples who have children find themselves less close during the process of child-rearing. They have less time for each other, even as they are part of a family that in some ways is deeper than it was before kids. They're also less happy while the kids are in the home, happiness being measured by "how happy are you feeling right now" type surveys.
Some people look at that - look at the fact that even as parenting is rewarding, the day-to-day of it is often not enjoyable and say "nope, that's it. Child-free couples are happier. I enjoy being child-free and will stay that way and enjoy being close to myself and my partner." Others look at that and feel nothing but the void of not having kids - if you feel a drive to be a parent, what do a bunch of statistics mean?
That's a big "if" though. I think the desire to be a parent is an emotional one, not a rational one. I think many but not all young adults feel that drive. For those that do, the rewards are worth the grunt work and sacrifice. For those that don't, it comes down to rational arguments and the rational argument in this day and age is that having kids is not worth it. Leave it to the people who feel an emotional pull to do so. FWIW, I fall into the "no emotional drive" category. I know I'm in the minority and as much as I can't imagine being in the other camp, I'm quite grateful most people are.
Some people really just want to spend their time and money on themselves. I'm pretty sure I do. There are so many things I'd like to do that children would prevent me from doing.
Most people have kids, so I don't really see why anyone needs to be open minded about it either :) Just because your idea of fulfillment is a child, doesn't mean it needs to be everyone's.
I have a huge amount of respect for people who choose not to have children from the start. I feel like those people will always be in the minority and therefore always be a target of conversation. Some people just know they don't want kids and thats that, but then people want explanations why and to *most* people who want/have kids they usually don't like their answers or can think of a way to refute what they are saying or have something to argue about it. I know I personally want children but I have no problem and don't think any more or less of a person who doesn't.
@Ribbons, I am saying being "open minded" because that is just a respect thing. If you want me to respect you and your decision of not having kids then that I me being "open minded". And I do respect your decision.
I think it's cool if people don't want to have kids. I don't get what respecting the generation after you means?...I don't think children are awful, but if someone truly says "i don't want kids", then who are we to question them? That's ok. Luckily, you can use BC nowadays.
Sometimes, i think it's just hard to say "wow i love X about my life SO MUCH, how can other people NOT want to do this?!" i do the same with my college experience. I had such a GREAT experience, that sometimes i wonder why everyone didn't love it as much as i did, or even go! It's easy to project. And then you meet people who actually completely change your opinions
You had your son, you're biased cuz he's yours, you love him, and he's what you know. Now, you can't imagine your life without him.
I have a coworker who struggled with debilitating depression most of his life. I know him very well. They chose not to have kids. For good reasons, from what he's told me. He loves to dote on his neighbor's kid and his nieces/nephews, but probably could not have "handled" being a parent.
I think a lot of people don't take having children serously (clearly not the OP). But for many children are just the next step in the line of finishing school, getting married, buying a house, etc. Which would explain the high levels of dissatisfaction that couples with children exhibit.
I think it takes a lot of guts to really analyze that decision when it's such a major social norm. To step outside of what's expected and to decide if it's right for you or not. And in my case, it's not. I don't think that's selfish or wrong in any way. Marriage is not for the purpose of having children. There are plenty of people who are married and childless whether by choice or not. And conversely there are plenty of very unmarried couples and singles with children who live happy healthy lives. It's a matter of really deciding what you want out of your life and your marriage or relationship.
There are plenty of ways to be fulfilled without having children. My life is rich and full. I have a career, my friends, family, my wonderful husband and our pets, my hobbies, and our travels. And for me, children would just not make my life better. I applaud people who make the choice to do it or feel it's a must for them. Contrary to what many think, I love kids. I'm good with kids. I've been a teacher and a nanny and camp counselor and I loved those jobs. But I also loved getting to send those kids away at the end of the day and go out until all hours of the night if I pleased. Having a dog is more than enough responsibility. :-)
@Kare7213: See, I don't think childfree couples question parents about their decisions to have kids. I never would -- obviously it's extremely rewarding for some people and their lives are better for it. But that's exactly why I don't see why childfree people need to defend or "respect" it. If anyone needs to respect someone's choices more, it's parents.
I'm starting to feel like ladies in here are starting to feel attacked by my post. By no means did I mean to offend anyone or make myself sound superior for being a parent. I AGREE its a DECISION. If you would have known me a few years ago you would have agreed with anyone I knew that I would probably be the last of my friends to have kids. I can see where your coming from! Really, and I mean that with all respect.
Its not so much about whether or not to have kids but how you go about your decision. Thats what makes me angry with the childless couples who don't have an ounce of respect for the parents out there. I read a comment from a man who was so proud by his decision to not have kids that anyone he know who did have children he would refer to their child as their "mammal". That just disgusted me. It just feels so cold hearted.
Unfortunately there are crappy people who have children and crappy people who don't.
I have to laugh--technically a child is their mammal =]. If you wanna be scientific about it . But with an attitude like that, I'm glad he decided to (hoepfully) put a wrapper on it. But I don't think you'll run into people who refer to their children as their evil spawns or whatnot on weddingbee. That guy's probably just ticked he isn't getting any =]
Just like there are mombies out there, there are always some haters, too!
I am not hating on childless couples. That is a personal choice. Most of the couples said "I am too selfish to have a child. I don't like children." Okay, thats fine, to his, his own. But who isn't selfish? I know I am and I am a parent. I'm selfish because it keeps me, me. It keeps my head on straight to be a great mom. I'm not saying if you knowthat you wont be a good parent to have children. If you know that you childs life will not be enriched by yourself as a parent then by all means DON'T have children. The last thing we need is another abused child in this world. If you can't have children this is not what so ever pointed at you. I sympathize with you and envy your strength at the same time.
I just wish people were not so closed minded. Having a child is not something to be taken with a grain of salt. If you choose not to have children then I respect that. But please respect the generation after you. Respect the mothers and fathers who are working 2 jobs, getting no sleep, and still loving and raising the next generation of doctors, teachers, firefighters who just might save your life one day.
I don't understand either of these paragraphs. Just because someone chooses not to have children does not mean they would be abusive if they did. And I don't understand the point you are trying to make in the second paragraph at all.
I don't want children and never have. That does not mean if for some reason I had them I would be a bad mother. And I respect people who have children, but i do not think they are morally superior to me.
Wait, what?
I don't question the reasons of people who want to have children, or the reasons of people who do want to have children. I do not judge people based on whether they are a parent or not.
It's a personal and fairly private decision, just like religion, political views, diet, marriage, etc.
Perhaps I've missed the point?
isnt it a good thing that someone who refers to children as "mammals" doesnt want children of his own?
i think i may be confused about the point of this post...
To be honest, the title of this thread puts childfree people on the defensive. How does one respond to "What do you think of childfree couples?" You're asking what we think of a highly personal and individual decision that is really not our business to question.
As a childfree person, I have nothing but admiration for parents out there. I think that parents are superhumans for what they are able to achieve and I always help out with babysitting my loved ones' children, who I think are beautiful and adorable. I don't question or ask them to justify their decisions to have children - I totally understand, respect, and appreciate that they are raising our next generation.
On the other hand, I am constantly bombarded by family, friends, and acquaintances about our decision to remain childfree. They have no problem insensitively probing into our financial situation, our family history, and demanding that we justify our decision. So I totally agree with Ribbons that it's the parents that need to show a little more respect!
I'm not saying defend me for having children. I'm saying don't be rude towards me because I did. Why can't we all just respect eachothers choices??? Why is it so hard to respect someone who had a child and respect someone who didn't? I'm not asking to be praised. Just respected.
@kare7213-
who is disrespecting you? anonymous posters to an article? how is someone else's response to an article and assault on you?
your OP was about how people need to buck up and realize how important being a parent is...that you are raising a future doctor... that's not exactly respecting other people's decisions.
still confused about the point of this post, so maybe i should just stop replying...
Yeah, I don't understand where the lack of respect is? Can you give an example? I mean, I'm not going to walk up to a parent and say "thank you for having a kid, because in 20 years they may become a doctor/firefighter/ect"?
It is pretty hurtful to share your decision not to have children and get a negative response. I recently had a friend (who is a mommy) stare at me with the most aghast expression on her face when I told her we're not positive we ever want to have children. She was horrified and made it very clear with her probing questions. I wasn't in any way attacking her decision to have children, but just sharing our decision as a couple when she inquired about it. I think both sides need to be sensitive.
Perhaps if you shared the link, we would understand where you are coming from with this thread.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/great-debates/666572-what-do-you-think-couples-who.html
I hope it works! Its more of a forum I came acrossed then an article. But it still is what sparked this discussion.
at the risk of getting all "granola", hehe
I'm about to have my first baby, and I can't imagine not being a parent. However, I have major respect for people who don't want to have kids. If that's how they feel, they shouldn't give into pressure. Plus, the world is populated enough by those who have a strong urge to have kids, lol. If everyone had 2 kids, there wouldn't be as many resources for those kids to enjoy!
I usually don't ask people about their decisions or sometimes will say "are you getting a lot of pressure from your parents to have kids?" That usually opens the door IF they feel comfortable to tell me either way. I don't like to ask "childless" couples if/when they want kids, just in case they are infertile, etc.
I think it's perfectly fine whatever people decide! For example, if you don't want kids and would probably flip out and hurt them, then don't have them!
I think people who don't want to have kids shouldn't have kids. That's about the extent of my opinion on the subject.
if you want them, have them, if you don't, don't. it's no one's business, but your own and your partners.
however, i don't think anyone deserves a medal of honor because they've chosen to pop out a future dr./firefighter/policeman. sorry, but your kids future is up to them, and plenty of crappy parents end up with awesome grown up kids, and plenty of awesome parents end up with crappy grown up kids.
Why does not wanting kids have to be because "you would flip out and hurt them?"
That is pretty judgmental.
I wasn't saying that the only people who don't want kids are people who hate kids. I know all kids of people don't want to have children, including very loving people. I didn't mean to sound judgemental.
Honestly, I had no patience for kids before and I probably would have been a really bad mother if I had gotten pregnant then.
Okay, I just have to point something out here: why should couples who don't want kids have them? I mean, evolutionarily we need to have kids. But clearly overpopulation is a much bigger risk right now than underpopulation. So at that point it's just a personal choice.
My fiance and I are on the fence about kids. We cannot imagine ourselves with kids easily. I don't think it's "selfish" to have your reasons - for instance, we have very busy schedules and future careers, a family business, and lots of pets. Now, if we were to have kids, there'd clearly have to be some rearranging. Most people do this because they decide kids are right for them. We're open to it somewhere way in the future, but have both said that we may come to our "go off the Pill" age and decide to keep using contraceptives because we don't want kids.
I feel like there is actually a huge stigma against married couples who choose not to have kids. It's as if parents take it very personally, or feel like they have to impress upon you just how much you need to have kids to be happy. Like many things, it's a personal choice and not one that someone outside of your marriage can make.
I am confused by your original post, though. You said "It seems as though the very reason why these couples got married is the very reason why most couples end up having children. They love them and can't imagine there lives without them. That right there bugs me. It seems as though they are so closed minded that they don't realize getting married is just as big of a decision has having a child and you feel pretty much the same emotions for another human bean, whether it be your husband or child." - but for some people, kids are different. I mean, they don't come out grown up. I am so NOT a kid person, and the thought of raising one terrifies me. Who does it hurt if I am not "open" to kids? How is it closed minded to live my life how I choose? Of course getting married is a big decision, and I don't take it lightly. But it is also one that is not for everyone, and I respect that. I'm not giving the potential of a childless life LESS thought than I gave to marriage, and I don't think there's any way to say that other childless couples do, either.
Speaking as someone who will soon be part of a union that plans to be childless - I don't understand where the disrespect to parents comes from (I don't think that's an accurate assessment of people who choose not to have kids). At least, I think that was the point of the OP.
I often tell my parent friends how incredible they are and how much I respect what they are doing as parents. Parents sacrifice and change their lives for the nurturing and growth of their children.
I think people who choose to be childless COMPLETELY understand that.
I also think there are people that know they wouldn't be good parents (be it health related issues, etc.) and then there are other people who choose not to find out (other issues they don't want to deal with).
I babysat ALL the time growing up and adore all the kids in my life. Just because you LOVE kids does not mean you want the responsibility of raising them. Maybe that's how they are describing themselves as "selfish" - meaning, not wanting to be be selfless to the extent parenting demands.
A big thing that I am saying, is most of us are on here because we recently got or are getting married in the near future right? We are getting married because we found someone we love, respect, and can't imagine our lives without. You feel very stronly for the man or woman in your life.
Now imagine someone comes up to you and says "thats your own decision to get married but I could NEVER imagine getting married!!! You have to share EVERYTHING, discuss ALL your decisions with someone else, you can't sleep with anyone else, and they are with you till the day you die. I'm just couldn't let someone have that much control in my life. I have bigger plans."
You would respect that right? Of course. But you would know that its much more then that. You would know that everything that you sacrafice for your husband or wife is just a small stepping stone into building something greater then yourself. Your relationship, your love and your passion for the other human bean makes the obsticals so miniscule.
I'm not trying to sway anyone into having children. And being open minded about the decision does NOT mean that you have to considar having kids. It means that you can look at someone who has had a child and say "that is a beautiful thing they got going on and I respect that. But I have a beautiful thing going on here too". And if you can't do that....well thats just a shame.
I don't think it's "much more than that." I enjoy the day to day with my husband, but if someone can't stand the thought of seeing the same person for the rest of their life, gosh, that's really their choice and who am I to say "there's so much more!" That's so presumptuous. People are different.
You shouldn't need someone else to validate your life's choices.
And being open minded about the decision does NOT mean that you have to considar having kids. It means that you can look at someone who has had a child and say "that is a beautiful thing they got going on and I respect that. But I have a beautiful thing going on here too". And if you can't do that....well thats just a shame.
I don't think most people looks down on or disrespect other peoples who have kids. Even if I say I don't want kids because they cost a lot & I can't live a carefree life full of travel, and have a career that I want....it's just my opinion. It doesn't mean that I'm looking down on others who do have children. If anything, I think people who decide they don't want children get looked down on more.
I read like six pages of those comments and really the only nasty one's I found where towards childless couples (ie. the point of life is making life therefore your life means nothing unless you have one). I'm sorry but I don't get this at all...if anything it seems like parents berate the childless...
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