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I actually think it's best to do that. That way, it's not like you're giving him an ultimatum (especially if he already knows you're interested in marriage) but you are telling yourself this isn't what you want and you won't wait forever. Knowing what you want is important, and telling YOURSELF that you'll only wait until, say, Christmas is perfectly fine. Now telling him that he has until Christmas to propose... that's not quite ok IMO.
Thanks for the opinion, JohnsBride. For the record, I would never give a verbal ultimatum. I think they are bad news.
I had a mental timeline... and I have to say, when a close friend (of his) got engaged (they started dating after us, and *everyone* was expecting us to get engaged next) and I still didn't have a ring on my finger it got *really* tense at out house. As if generally thinking about it isn't hard enough, having a specific date in mind can totally bite you in the butt and can make things really tough on you.
Maybe your mental timeline should be more focussed on sitting him down & having a serious heart to heart about your relationship and where it's headed (who knows, he may just have a specific plan in mind!). That seems a lot more fair to both of you after investing 7 years than setting a timeline to "shit of get off the pot" as it were... especially if he has no idea you're even considering "getting off the pot".
I don't think it's fair on him to set a mental timeline! If he doesn't know that it is a deal breaker and you just get up and leave one day because it hasn't happened yet but he wasn't aware that you set a timeline!
I am all about honesty I think you need to tell him how it important it is to you and that you are ready to take the next step in your relationship! Being honest about your feelings and wants and allowing him to let you know where he stands on the situation I think is a better option! This way after you hear his opinions you can make the decision of where you are going to go with the relationship!
There is a certain point where you just have to decide if things are going to continue to move forward or not. As I got older, I knew that there was only a certain amount of time I was going to invest in figuring out whether this was going to work for me or not.
Given the fact that he was so much younger than me, I left the mental timeline really flexible... but the essential question that I focused on was whether giving us a little extra time would result in the desired outcome...
On the other hand, one of my best friends waited 8 years for her boyfriend to propose, but he constantly re-asserted that marriage was not in his future plans. I think she thought he'd eventually change his mind, but I think clear boundaries like that are unlikely to change!
I didn't even know if I wanted to get married. I just knew that I wanted to have the opportunity to have children if that was something I decided I wanted. I had to keep evaluating what steps would bring me closest to that goal, and so I gave my partner extra time. I would have loved to have been married by the time I was 36... (and it would have been possible since we'd been dating for 2 years by that point) But sticking to that mental picture would have made me miss out on the best thing to ever happen to me!
So, I would say keep focusing on the big picture, but don't set a firm mental deadline... You might miss out on great things!
I think they make sense because otherwise you could find yourself in the trap of thinking he just needs more time and before you know it, 5 years could go by. Now this is totally fine if you are ok to wait and take a chance it might never happen. But a mental timeline helps keep you honest to yourself about how much time you really have waited....When you get to that date, you might want to talk to him and then assess whether its time to wait more or cut it off and move on.
I voted 3-4 years but it totally depends on the couple and their circumstances - age, schooling, financial independence, etc.
I also don't believe in verbal ultimatums.
I didn't vote because there wasn't a 1-2 yrs option!
We started our relationship with a time limit/expiry date of a year (!). I was thinking 2 years, but Mr V said if you don't know after a year he didn't think it was the one, so we went with that. I think I would always make it clear that I was only for something serious, as I can't imagine getting to 2 yrs and saying 'oh, by the way... I'm leaving because I think you should have proposed by now' out of the blue.
That said, I was not interested in dating or having a relationship for 'fun' or just seeing where it goes. A serious relationship was always on the cards for us, and we knew each other well enough to know that we had a fairly good chance. I'm not old, 23, but I just don't want to spend years in a relationship that's not going anywhere. If Mr V or I hadn't been ready to get serious/commit we just wouldn't have had a relationship :)
i don't believe in verbal ultimatums however i don't believe in waiting forever in silence. m and i agreed at the end of last year that if we aren't engaged by the end of 2011 (a bit over 3 years in our relationship) that we could basically move on because it wasn't going to happen. we are both older though. I was 27 (a mth later i turned 28) when we started dating and he was 32. I am now 29 and he will be 33 in october, so we are definitely at the time to be thinking marriage etc.
i voted on 3-4 years simply because i am older, if i would have been in my early 20s when we started dating then i would have voted longer so that careers and finances could be established.
I think it's best when both parties sit down and have thsi discussion (like it hink you need to) and say "ok what' sthe deal. Where is this going?" sort of thing.
I had given my guy a relatively verbal ultimatum. AFter 3 years, I said "it's not fair to leave me behind while you deploy, expect me to stick around and that's it".
If he was leaving for 15 months, I told him that unless we were getting married, That's crap and I wasn't just going to wait around and "wait and see" how he felt when he got back home. IMO, after 3 years, he should Sh or get off the pot before he deserts me to go to Iraq. I know that sounds irrational and ridiculous, but that's how i felt. I had a chat with mom and she felt he should either committ or leave me free. We decided on a verbal engagement (essentially no ring) and that we WOULD get married. I needed to actually hear it. Hear it with my own two years. "EJS, i will marry you when i come home. no iffs ands or butts". Even without a diamond ring. OK, done.
Boy, 2 months into his deployment, kjow what he was whining about? "i wish I'd asked you to marry me before I left. I'm sorry. It was so selfish of me".
yeah. That's just my story! But, all your ducks are in order....do you KNOW why he's waiting?
I totally agree in timelines. You can't just string someone along forever ya know. It's not fair to both parties.
If you've both discussed your views on marriage and he knows that it's a dealbreaker for you (i.e. you're not going to stick around forever unmarried), then a mental timeline makes sense. If you're both in your late twenties and have been together for seven years... it's about time he made a decision.
Gosh, this is so hard. Especially because all anyone can ever say is their own personal experience which is rarely relevant to anyone else. That being said, I'll give you my story for what is worth (which is not much at all!).
My last boyfriend I was with for 5 years. The first two years we were together were incredible. He told me in no uncertain terms that he would marry me some day, and even proposed. I told him no because we were 18 and I wanted to finish college first, but I made sure he knew that it was a timing issue only and I wanted to be married after college. Then things... fizzled? I don't know. As time went on I got more and more involved and he got more distant. I started doubting him when he said he loved me. Sometimes he was so sincere and I really believed him when he told me that we would get married when the time was right. As it got into our fifth year together (and heading into my second year post-undergrad) it became abundantly clear that we were on different wavelengths. When we talked about marriage it was always "someday" but he said he just couldnt say when exactly that day would be. Then he got deployed and things got worse. When he came home he told me he wanted to reenlist-- something I'd told him from the start I would never stay for (we had a 1 term deal so he could pay for school). To me, it just became sooo clear that even though I'd felt he was the love of my life, he was putting "him" before "us" and probably always would. I left him that day and I haven't seen him since.
Four months later I met B and everything was different. I wasn't looking for "the one" just someone to hang out with and here was this guy who told me he loved me in 5 weeks-- and meant it! And he showed it. And he made me feel it every day. He never made me feel like I was the lucky one to be with him. I was still a bit gun-shy because of the last one and I really took things slow with him... but 2.5 years later I am happier than I've ever been in my life and I know that he's ring shopping.
So the point of my long and probably useless story? If your guy knows how you feel and he isn't giving you answers, it might be that he isn't commited enough to you to take the plunge. And if you do decide to leave, remember that there is someone you're meant to meet right around the corner.
I think over the age of 25, 2 to 3 years should be enough time for an engagement. You know if that is the person you want to spend your life with, so it's not like it's taking time to decide.
I have a mental timeline, but he knows it. When we were just dating, I told him if I was dating someone I wanted to marry, I would not date them for4 or more years. On the 2nd or 3rd year, I expect a proposal. I've only dated one man I want to marry, him, so this is in effect now. Two years is enough time, especially me being 28 and wanting to have children.
In our situation... the only reason we're not official is money b/c we're young and in grad school. If money wasn't the problem... and we were still not offically engaged... I'd be questioning the relationship and his commitment. I guess thats the time for a serious reconsideration and discussion rather than a deadline. It sucks to have invested so much into a relationship just to have it end in nothing, but there could be someone much better out there for you... each day wasted waiting on someone who may not be the one. Based on what you've described... I'd say 3-4 years max is how long I'd wait until I began to wonder. I want a large family and I want to start on that by 26... So yeah... tick - tock... :)
I voted 3-4. Right now, we've been together almost a year. I'll turn 19 right before our one year anniversary and I know I'm not ready for marriage. He's 29 (he'll be 30 a couple months after our one year anniversary) and he doesn't really talk about marriage in concrete terms (lol, I don't either).
We've both decided to talk about it when I'm out of college (I've got two semesters left) because it's important to me to complete my education and establish my career prior to getting married and it's important to him that I reach the goals I've set for myself. I'm not saying we couldn't get married while I was in school or that that would keep me from doing anything I've set out to do, but I think I still have some growing up to do.
So we'll have been together about 2.5 years when I'm finished with school and we'll probably talk more concretely then. I think 2.5 years or even 3 is a reasonable amount of time but more than 4 worries me, in my case. I mean, he'll be turning 33 a couple of months after our 4 year... He should know by 33 if he wants to marry the girl he's dated for 4 years.
I don't think there's any way to come up with a good rule that works for everybody. I didn't set any kind of mental or verbal timeline at all, but we're in our mid-twenties, so it felt like we had plenty of time. I wasn't in a huge rush personally, but we talked about marriage starting right about the time we were considering moving in together. If we had been dating for probably 4 years or more and never really talked about it, that'd start to bug me. Obviously my perspective would probably change if I was in my 30s or 40s.
Timelines are a good thing. I have one, and as much as it's made me nervous it also is keeping me focused. The thing is to set your limits, and don't be too hard on yourself if that has to change. Again, I agree with the ladies that say it's different for everybody. It was important to me, and now it's important to him. I don't speak about it with him, but he knows it exists.
I think every circumsance is different, period.
We were together a little over 7 years and had been living together for just over a year when he proposed. We had talked about marriage and I knew it was imminent for like 6 months beforehand. By the time he proposed, it was only a few months after he was finished with medical school and had gained financial independence from his family, so timing made sense for him.
I agree with Erindesmar- there is absolutely no way to have a "set" amount of time for dating before marriage becomes necessary. I've been w/ my fiance for nine years- it sounds like a really long time, but we got together when we were 17! There was no way I was personally mature enough to even contemplate marriage until the last year or so. I know he wanted to "seal the deal" earlier, but I just assured him that it would happen at some point, that he should trust in our relationship, and that I would let him know when I was ready. Everyone is different! I have friends who have been in 10 year long relationships that are still not ready for marriage, and friends that knew as soon as 3 years into the relationship.
Also, per the title of your poll, I love this some ecard: http://www.someecards.com/card/rather-than-get-off-the-pot-ive-decided-to-shit
My timeline isn't "mental" - if he doesn't know about it, how can he respond? It was very difficult for me to bring up the wedding word, but I had to know where his head was at. I framed it in terms of having children, which I think was helpful. Now we're talking about a wedding next year.
Of course, I'm still in the "Waiting" category, so what do I know :)
My buddy sent that to a bunch of us when he finally proposed : )
I've dated my fiance for just about ten years now (high school sweethearts) and he popped the question last year. We are getting married in 26 days and girly, I have to tell you.... I'm SO glad that he asked when he did.
Not only was it the right time for him but it really turned out to be the right time for me as well. We've lived together going on five years and we've really had a chance to get to know each other. Our dreams, habits and styles.
A few years ago, my best friend married her husband after knowing him for only one year and it kind of made me a little crazy with wedding fever. I constantly wondered when it would be OUR time. When, how and where would he propose? It became my only thought. I waited, and waited, then waited some more. And eventually, it happened and it... was.. perfect! Everything I had imagined and more.
If you love him, wait for him. If you know that you want to spend the rest of your life with him, then waiting should be no matter. Also, if you truly feel that you have to be his wife in order to be with him, then you should make it known. Voice your matter, but not in a way that could hurt him.
Think of where your relationship is now. How happy are you together? Do you smile when he smiles and hurt when he hurts? That is what I thought about. He's the only one I love regardless of a union between us. By what I've read, you DO want to spend the rest of your life with him. Does being his wife really make that much of a difference to you? The way I see it is my FI and I have already been together for so long that I'm already his wife in every way, except for that walk down the aisle and the piece of paper with my new last name on it.
Good luck and keep your head up! It WILL happen in time. :D
I'd say somewhere between 3 and 5 years. I'm 24 now, started dating bf aged 21, we've not 'outgrown' each other as we've got older (he's 28 now btw). I am more than ready to get planning! I want to be married before children, I want children before I'm 30. Current mental timeline is to get married in 2011 (I'll be 26 nearly 27) we can have some time just us for a year then have kids. We will be long distance until October 2010 so this makes sense to us both, but when I want time to plan and he can't think more than 5 minutes into the future it gets me worried.
@gingerlex - apart from the long distance part, we have almost the same relationship!!! ha ha
@MissSheva - until i read the rest of the posts i thought your timeline was for "waiting" - ie how long from when you know you want to marry your SO until you are engaged... three to four years was WAY out there... but my relationship timeframe is around 4-6 years i would say!
BF and i have been together since i was 21, currently 25 (he is currently 28). However, he is the one that originally wanted to be married before we have kids, but now i do to, we want to be married for a few years before we have kids... i want to start trying when im 29, so that brings us back to a proposal in the next year, which we have discussed and it will be before my 27th birthday... which fits well into my timeline, so im happy as Larry!
I agree with most people that at the end of the day it depends on the person and the individual relationship. However, I do think it's helpful to have a sense of where you want to be in your life. It's kind of like goal-setting, and I think it helps move you along. And like everything, goals should be flexible and meeting them should require some attention to reality without always being something you have to go after or achieve by a certain point. I think timelines are particularly helpful (though not necessary) once you are in a relationship that is serious enough to make you consider marrying your SO. For me, it's important because I feel like my SO is in his comfort zone, as we have been together nearly four years and lived together for two. I certainly have put an expiration date on our relationship if we don't talk marriage in a serious way in the near future. I think the older you get, the more sure you become of what you want, and the sooner you are able to tell if your SO is it for you. Relationships that tend to meander along for years and years, IMHO, lead to stagnation. I caveat that by saying there may very well be good reasons why it may take certain couples an extremely long time to get married - financial, LDR, etc. But if you are a part of each other's day to day experiences over an extended period of time, I think setting a goal of when you would like to get married (barring being laid off, severe injury or illness, etc.) is a good thing. Particularly if you live with your SO, there is a tendancy to take the other person's "being there" for granted, and having a timeline helps you ensure that you don't take each other for granted, as well as ensures that your relationship continues to progress and grow in a way that is healthy and comfortable and enjoyable for both people. I think it takes a rare person to appreciate a stagnant relationship or to wish for statis or for things to remain status quo. Admitted taking the next step in a relationship is a little scary, but knowing what you want and when you want it helps you make sure that this next step is taken and if it isn't, and aren't satisfied with the reasons why, you can move on to find exactly what is that you want.
it depends if you have talked about marriage together or not. if you have and he agrees he wants to get married soon then I would say wait, even if it has been 8 years. If he seems opposed to the idea still and not the marrying type then I'd move on. 3-4 years would be enough time for me to decide its time to move on if he isn't on the same page.
After our 3 year anniversary, I reminded him of what I said when we first started dating: If I didn't see a ring at year 3, I'm out! (Based on friends & my own experience)
He then turned it around on me & was like, "well I thought you didn't want to because you just started your business & blah blah blaaaaah". I called him out on his ridiculous cop-out & the next day he asked me to send photos of rings I like, finger size, etc. We're a long distance couple & from that point of ring talk he made me wait 4 visits before he did it! I had actually almost given up on the idea of getting engaged & thought we were gonna break up by the end of the year...
Waiting to move forward is SUCH a brain drain. I don't think you should sit there & harbor these feelings... definitely be like, hey it's been 7 years! We have a home together, we're at a good place in our life, when are we going to take the next step? Sometimes you have to let them know you're ready!
I think ultimatums and timelines can just lead to pain and strife. :(
Maybe I'm just on the lucky end of the spectrum, but I'm more of a 'let things happen when they happen' kind of girl. We met on New Year's Eve, had our first kiss that night, and exactly one year later he proposed. Not much waiting involved for me.
I'm laughing at your poll b/c our completely unromantic final conversation about marriage that ended up in our deciding to take the plunge referred more than once to "getting off the pot". Our situation was a bit different...he had basically told me a year earlier that he was more or less ready and he was waiting for me to let him know that I was.
Not sure about exactly how long (and whether you mean from when you started or from now). but I will say it's pretty relationship and person dependent. A friend of mine who got engaged a couple months after us and is getting married this w/e met her FI about a year before they got engaged. DH and I were together about 3 1/2 years. But we were in grad school and I just wanted to feel more settled so it took me longer to get there.
I will say that if you find yourself wanting something out of the relationship that you're not getting, then it's time to reevaluate. And in that case maybe a mental timeline makes sense. But if you've been together 7 years and you only started thinking, "Okay I'm ready to make a bigger commitment" a few months ago...then give him some time.
I would definitely set a mental timeline so that you aren't going crazy waiting for something that may or may not happen. I would say either 1 or 2 years if that.
I didn't vote because I think everone's situation is different. I was ready after 1 year, starting to get antsy by a year and a half, and felt like I was being tortured by the 2nd year. My DH knew he wanted to marry me someday, but didn't propose until year 3. Even at only 3 years, which is a lot less than your 7, I began to question how much longer I was willing to wait.
I definately think you need to sit down and let him know you are serious about getting married now and let him know how important it is to you. I would say something along the lines of look, I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you, but as your wife, not just your girlfriend. And as much as I love you, marriage is important to me and I won't wait around forever. See how he reacts and then you can set up a rough mental timeline after that. I'd probably say at least a year after you talk to him so he has some time to think, shop, and plan.
I think there's a case for the mental timeline. If you're both on the same page, and he knows you're hoping for a ring, then it's only fair to yourself to have some kind of finish line. I know after 7 years of dating my boy it can be both mentally and physically exahusting, and you've GOT to know it isn't all for nothing.
You COULD say "you must propose by xx, or else I'm leaving" then be sure that if he DOES propose on, or before xx, you won't spend your marriage wondering if he did it because he WANTED to, or because he HAD to.
On the other hand if he has no idea it's coming then yeah, it's unfair, but probably for the best.
I didn't vote, because I don't think people on a message board can possibly say what's right and wrong for you and your SO. Without outside influence I'm quite happy to have been dating for 7 years, others, as they've already expressed are horrified at the idea. Fortunately, theses others aren't a part of your relationship.
I didn't give a vote because you didn't give a 'No timeline - I'd rather have the person I love than be married' option :(
@luckyprincess: Exactly. Exactly!
I'm totally against timelines, ultimatums, passive aggressive stuff, etc, etc. If you want to be engaged now, propose to the man. If that doesn't work for you, you're prioritizing a proposal over your relationship. Which is fine! But it is a choice.
However, I know not everyone will agree, and everyone has different priorities. So it's so important that people be clear about their priorities. If, like me and Luckyprincess, your priority is the relationship and not the marriage, say so! If you are anti-marriage and don't want to get married, say so! If you don't want kids, say so! If you want 8 kids, say so! If you MUST get married by age 30, a man you're dating when you're 28 deserves to know that!
In relationships, as in all things, people should learn to stop playing games and communicate effectively.
I think that the timeline depends on a number of things.
Beluga, I can't agree with you more about being honest and open with one another. I know for us, whenever we argue, it's due to a lack of communication/misunderstanding. I feel like so many couples get frustrated because they're not on the same page or they haven't discussed such issues. That frustration can so quickly turn into hurt feelings that could have been avoided by just throwing it out there.
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Do you agree or disagree with them? Do you think there are situations where a mental timeline is absolutely necessary? If he has talked positively about marriage but hasn't actually taken the final step to propose and you're slightly fed up with the waiting game, do you think you could ever set a date in your head and leave if he hasn't by then? Do you think there is a mental limit? Oh, and let's say you're in your later 20's and you've been together almost 7 years. AND you've lived together for a year a half. AND you're finances are certainly in order and you both have steady jobs Would you and could you?